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Alright, so let me try to straighten a few things out here. Here is the initial point that I was attacked for: Universe replies with: I apologize if I didn't make it clear enough that I was referring to the 2008 and 2009 Red Wings teams that won the Western Conference. I really thought it would be obvious to you, since, you know, we were discussing teams with mediocre goaltending and world class defense playing well in the postseason. And yes, at this stage in his career, Chris Osgood is a mediocre goaltender. In fact, right now he is even worse than that (have you seen him play at all recently?). The last 2 regular seasons, he has had a GAA over 3 and a SV% under .900 (and it's even uglier if you actually watch him play now-a-days, the guy is flat-out done). I am not comparing Brian Boucher and/or Michael Leighton to Chris Osgood as far as an entire body of work for a career goes. If you would have actually read my post and not just picked through it for select words, you'd probably have realized this without me having to point it out to you right here. But for some reason, you skipped right over that. Not sure if it's just carelessness on your part, or if you legitimately could not understand a very obvious point I was making. Anyway, Universe goes on to say... YES! EXACTLY! The entire argument is about comparing Michael Leighton/Brian Boucher NOW to Chris Osgood NOW. First, you bring up his entirely irrelevant career totals, and now you prove to me that you have not read a single word I have posted. Who cares if he is on the downfall of his career right now? If anything that proves my point even farther,that right now he is a [expletive]ty goaltender. Period. A [expletive]ty goaltender that has guided a team through the postseason 2 of the past 3 years due to superb play from his defenseman. (Does this sound familiar? Yeah it kind of reminded me to the 2010 Flyers too). You would? Really? Chris Osgood in his prime, no doubt. Chris Osgood now? I hope you are joking. This is the line that really got me. I "don't seem to understand how good the Flyers defense is"? What have I been using as evidence for why the Flyers made the right decision by not trading Giroux for Halak? Lets check the archives: That is exactly my point. Look how far this team got with mediocre goaltending. Why trade one of their great forwards for a guy who is definitely a better goalie than what they had, but would cause them to shake up the foundation of the team? Was not worth it Like, really? I don't understand how good the Flyers defense is? Why on earth else would I be alright with having a mediocre goaltender like Michael Leighton? You said it yourself, Leighton gets lit up on a team like Montreal. But, you know, there HAS to be some reason I was OK with keeping him on the Flyers, right? Maybe it's because I realize that the Flyers have one of the best set of top 4 defensemen in the league? I make it even more obvious by clearly saying "that is exactly my point" when Fly3rs says how good the Flyers defensemen are. But like everything else, I am assuming you skipped right over that too. Come on man, read. Hope that straightens a few things out.

This is by far the single dumbest thread I have ever seen on OTR. And why am I not shocked by who started it...

I'm surprised that Nike didn't confiscate the tape.

God didnt create anything, the only real god is Zeus and he strikes people with thunder.

I voted animal abuse because this thread is retarded.

Instead of hating on other players, why don't you make a sig saying how bad the Knicks arenot any other player.

child abuse i will say however, that animal abuse is way more gruesome

Of course coaches don't try and do everything they can to keep games close, but they'll do certain things to put more pressure on the players to pull through. Players can't always expect coaches to give an easy way out, so during the regular season, it is best to make sure that players are prepared. I'll always take a mentally ready team over home court advantage. I'm not an expert on Phil's coaching style, so I don't have all the answers up my sleeve. A possible explanation to keeping the bench in longer during important playoff games could be because he needs to give starters an extra rest so they'll still be fresh enough by the end of the game to hold on and win. If he puts the starters back in too early, then perhaps they'll wear out and wind up losing critical end-game possessions. Don't quote me on that because I'm not entirely sure of it. I'm merely suggesting that there could be other explanations to Jackson's decision making that goes beyond what's directly in front of you. I'll repeat myself over and over, but this guy is a 10 time champ, and if there is anyone I trust on how to win championships in the NBA, it's Phil Jackson, not an active member on a basketball forum. Not that Phil Jackson can't make mistakes and nobody beneath him in basketball knowledge could possibly prove him wrong, I'm just inclined to believe that Phil is right much more often than wrong than anyone else. Also, Jordan and Kobe won 0 rings without Phil. Shaq won 1 with Pat Riley. It's a pointless move to point out who was on his team when it works both ways.

i dont even have bank accounts or credits cards so idk what u mean. im old school but ok. if it didnt now it will never happen. u try n hack me and lets see ur progress.

Watching Nate and Baby's reactions after they score a basket is more entertaining than the game itself.

Because I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Dirk is still in his prime while Duncan is not. First off, who did the Mavs sweep in the first round of that postseason? Who did Dirk severely outplay that series as the #1 option? Right. Secondly, you can't isolate that 1 foul call for being the reason the Mavs beat the Spurs. You can't make a big deal about that 1 foul (which WAS a foul) when Dirk scored 35pts, grabbed 15reb, dished 3ast and had 0 TO's. Dirk came up big and the Mavs beat the defending NBA champs...who according to you weren't an "elite team." Lastly, Dirk didn't play well in the Finals, although blaming him for the loss is really pushing it. Dallas' offense didn't lose the series, Dallas' defense did. And that is solely on Avery Johnson's decision not to throw a double at Wade at all in the series, who had one of the greatest NBA Finals in NBA history. Dirk had a tough series, but it's not like Gasol has never had a tough series, including in the NBA Finals. And yes, I know Gasol is a different player than 2008, but so is KG and the Celtics. Dirk was #3 in clutch scoring last year in the league behind James and Bryant. In 08-09, he was #8. In 07-08, #3. He has hit the 8th most GW shots since 03-04 (playoffs included), and the 2nd most GW FT's. Gasol's clutch scoring since joining the Lakers is skewed because of Kobe (skewed meaning his #'s are way down, to be expected), but if you look at his 06-07 stats he was HORRIBLE in the clutch, scoring 35PPG less per 48min in the clutch and shooting 13% worse from the field, 40% worse from the FT line than Dirk. In 05-06 Dirk averaged 10PPG more per 48min with the same FG %, and shot 21% better from the FT line than Gasol. So, knowing all that...do you HONESTLY think Gasol would have done any better in the clutch against any of those teams you mentioned? Do you REALLY think Gasol is anywhere near the clutch player Dirk is? AND ONE LAST TIME- IT DOES NOT MATTER IF DIRK IS A JUMPSHOOTER!!! What hurts jumpshooters is they don't get to the FT line and shoot a low % from the field...Dirk gets to the line 7-8x a game and shoots 48% from the field, 42% from 3 and 90% from the line. He's one of the greatest scorers in NBA history, just look at the stats. LeBron basically gave up against the Celtics as well...does that mean he's a worse player than D-Wade because Wade played hard all 5 games vs. the Celtics and his team over-achieved this season while LeBron's under-achieved? Howard has led his team to the Finals and the ECF this season. He's a dominant player. He has quite a few holes in his game, but like the few other physical specimens like him in NBA history, his presence and freakish abilities negate his lack of skill in certain areas. Certainly nowhere near as versatile offensively as Pau, but only a fool would call Pau a better defender or rebounder. And Gasol has never been dominant enough offensively to cancel out the things Howard does so well. We can talk about all the what-if's with Pau, but he's proven nothing to show he's THAT dominant offensively to say his offense is more impactful than the difference between each of their rebounding and defense. Thanks for putting words in my mouth...I said JVG was a horrible OFFENSIVE coach. Any Rockets fan from 2004-2007 will agree with that. I personally love JVG as a coach, but his offensive sets and principles are horrible. Secondly, how do you in one breath say T-Mac was brittle and he had mediocre role players, and then question why doubling Yao was so effective 2 sentences later? Yao is an underrated passer...certainly no Pau Gasol, but it isn't nearly as big of a difference as you're making it out to be. Lastly, you can talk about his underwhelming postseason stats, but for his career Gasol's are even more underwhelming. Your point? If Bosh was healthy for March, then I would gladly just use his entire season as an example. But the fact of that matter is that he averaged 27/12/3 on 55% shooting in January/February, and his team was 29-23. He got hurt, his team floundered, he came back too early, and the rest is history. Bosh didn't have a tenth of the help Gasol had defensively. The year before Gasol left Memphis his team was the 2nd worst defensive team in the league...it doesn't prove much. Not to mention they are TOTALLY different players defensively. Gasol is taller, stronger and longer than Bosh. He's more capable of guarding some of the bigger, stronger post players in the league like Duncan, Howard, etc... Bosh is quicker, better rebounder and more versatile of a defender, and that was displayed best in the 2008 Olympics. When you have crappy defensive talent around you, the team won't perform and your own defense will suffer. That was seen with Gasol in Memphis a few years back, and Bosh this year. *One last thing...when you are on bad teams and expected to do all the heavy lifting, all the "little things" that you talk about with Gasol are lost in translation. It's why KG went from never mentioned on defense to DPOY by joining the Celtics, and why Pierce went from being considered really good to arguably the game's best player in 2008 after the calvary of help arrived. It's why Gasol's all-around skills, which haven't changed since his Memphis days, were magnified the second he joined the Lakers. We can speculate about what Bosh or Dirk would do as 2nd options, but the fact of the matter is that since they became truly productive NBA players, they were put in the position to be that #1 option. Therefor you have 0 example to say what they would do in those roles, just speculation. As far as defense goes, Bosh's terrific campaign in the 2008 Olympics was my proof of what he could do with the right coach and defensive talent around him. Other than that, there's just no proof. HOWEVER, Gasol has been #1 option of his team for plenty of years, so we do have a place to judge him against Dirk, Bosh or Dwight besides the X's and O's. What defines the NBA's BEST players is how they can lead or carry a team, which is why I stress that ability so much. And there is 0 question to me that Dirk and Dwight can carry and lead a team much better than Gasol, and I truly believe in the right place Bosh can as well.

I'm not a hater, but you went out of your way in an attempt to be funny which failed horribly. Not only did you waste your own time but you made yourself look like a total douche. I fail to see how I'm on your ballsack so much, but you know, nice try to make me look dumb when this is all on you.

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