Real Deal

I haven't responded to any PM's that have been sent out, because over the last few weeks, this has been a problem on the forums...so there's no point in taking it off them until it's resolved. The other half of the issue is simply people not liking what Shaliq is posting. Not my problem. http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30984-players-we-want-back-chauncey-billups http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30981-ibaka-unhappy-with-spanish-role http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30976-brown-nash-will-have-offensive-freedom http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30975-r-lopez-ready-for-fresh-start-with-hornets http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30973-martell-webster-to-join-wizards http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30932-greetings http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30967-chris-paul-doesn%e2%80%99t-fear-lakers http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30963-vote-clipper-darrell-into-the-hall-of-fans http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30962-clippers-interested-in-darko http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30921-cuban-rips-kidd http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30919-sheridans-report-cards http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/topic/30908-happy-birthday-kobe-bryant Those are Shaliq's last 12 topics he has started. Only one of them (the Greetings topic, where he drew a picture for OTR) was a non-NBA topic. Let me ask anyone here: what topic got the most attention? Which one was locked up? It was the non-NBA topic, and why? Because he had a print-out of OTR's statistics in the background...and that's all. How did it all start, though? Accusations of a member (who is 100% not him) being him, and all she did was quote his post and gave him one rep. Big deal. Every single time someone makes fun of Shaliq, they get about 4-5 reps. What if Shaliq was asking this particular person to rep him for his picture? I don't really care, because it seems to me that people are starting to go at him just to get their post reps. How many of Shaliq's recruits are super active? None, almost the same amount as everyone else's recruits over the last two years. Do I laugh at some of Shaliq's posts in the Random Thread? Not really. What he considers funny is not what I do...but then again, I don't think pictures of "lolcats" are funny, either, or the chick off of The Hunger Games. If someone ever accused me of liking a transsexual, I would bust ass. On a message board? If many were liking it, and nothing was done, I would be gone, and so would most people. A while back, I actually told Shaliq to roll with the punches, and give everyone a taste of their own medicine. Once I did, people started PM'ing me about it, or they were crying about it in the forums. How funny is that? I know all of this was done because the staff was not cracking down on it (especially me). I know that for a fact. I also know that some of you realize it was not a good look for this site, but sadly, that didn't matter...and more of the same thing led to more participation, and now we have 2-3 other guys liking classless remarks and even adding their own. If I was handling all of this effectively, I would have banned everyone involved months ago. I'm making an attempt to keep everyone on this site. It's going to be up to you guys to make it happen. As it stands, Kyle and the mods are now proposing big changes with bans/suspensions, and if I don't see this resolved in a few days, I'm giving them the green light to do whatever they want...and for what it's worth, I doubt many are going to be happy with it, even though it's probably for the best.

Just had to put this in here...Terry is still obsessed with Iverson, lol. http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/616567_3546873310667_1807627901_o.jpg

And childish, all coming from 3-4 people (if not more). I didn't like Diesel, but I sure the [expletive] didn't follow him around and call him Weasel, take a screenshot of his Facebook and call him a pedophile, say that he's attracted to gorillas, call him a Jew or make fun of his culture, and make an attempt to reply to every post (even if it had nothing to do with me) with one-word posts such as "lol" or "lulz" and a plethora of pictures that ridicule him. Yes, very ridiculous, and disgraceful. After staying up overnight and looking at hundreds of posts, dating back to last summer, I'm almost pissed off at myself for not ever doing anything about it, realizing that the mods have been pushing me to do something and, yet, I stepped away because we needed the activity. What a dumb thing to think.

Looking over their roster, you have to wonder...will the Grizzlies find themselves to be a bubble team this season? Last year, they grabbed the 4th seed in the West, and it was clinched late, with the help of the Clippers and Mavericks losing games. Now, with Randolph getting older, Mayo gone...it almost seems like the Grizzlies have to pray that Rudy Gay starts playing more like an all-star, rather than an Odom (a player that could be one, but rests outside of the box his entire career). Right now, Memphis isn't beating the Lakers, Thunder, Clippers or Spurs. I'm not even sure they'd be able to defeat the Nuggets. Should they be content with this roster for a couple more seasons, or start making deals immediately?

C - Brendan Haywood | DeSagana Diop PF - Tyrus Thomas | Bismack Biyombo | BJ Mullens SF - Michael Kidd-Gilchrist | Reggie Williams | Jeffery Taylor SG - Ben Gordon | Gerald Henderson | Matt Carroll PG - Kemba Walker | Ramon Sessions Last year, the Bobcats went 7-59 (.106). That win percentage is nearly the same a team would have in a 9-73 season (full 82 games). Do you see Charlotte winning 25 games? Before last season, their two worst were 18 games (expansion season, first year in the league) and 26 wins (second year in the league).

And you've been accusing Shaliq of being a spammer for months now, so since you want to take potshots at him in MY topic, you can take a one month break from this site. See you in 30 days. The next one is a permanent ban. Anyone else, or are you guys done being clowns? Let me go ahead and get this over with, so I can go back to working on the team banners.

In addition to that, I'm instructing the mods to hand out two-month suspensions to anyone who causes these similar problems (that is, until I look over what happens and how many offenses that member has racked up, and I'll go from there and likely suspend until 2013). To assure this will be done properly, and without considering a friendship or a member's dedication to the board, I will consider the demotion of any mod, or Kyle, if I see this not being put into play. And yeah, I've made topics like these a few times before, but this will be the last for a long time. Memberships are on the line, including those held by staff members. I don't care if you were registered January 2005, if you have me on Twitter or Facebook, if you talk to me every single day...we are headed back to basics. If it doesn't end with a couple of suspensions, I'm re-adding the old word filter, and this place will turn back into what many of you bitched about a long time ago.

The staff is basically set on giving everyone a lengthy suspension, doesn't matter who you are, if you are involved in any of what has been an ongoing issue for months now. I'm not going to explain what it is, because everyone knows. So, if you're disrespecting ANY members by calling them out in topics, purposely botching their names, posting slight racial slurs, insinuating that they are not intelligent enough to post on this site...then you will be handed a heavy suspension that will last until January 2013. This includes any writers, graphics team, moderators, and even Kyle (even though our staff knows how to act, which is why they are in the position they hold at this time). I'm going to dismiss what I originally said to the staff earlier...offering that someone else hands out these suspensions. I will do it, because quite frankly, if I'm caught on a bad day, I'm probably going to consider a permanent ban. While I fully trust the decisions my staff makes (as long as they are acting as moderators), all of them are fairly nice and understanding in regards to the individual's problems, but I'm going to dive into it knowing we'll continue to run this site without said poster(s). Layman's terms: if I sense you don't give a damn about this post, or what can potentially happen to your account for a few months, there's a strong chance you won't post here ever again. I don't want any PM's, I don't want any Facebook or Twitter messages, nothing on AIM. After this post, I'm assuming your issues will be resolved, and if you can't deal with that on your own, go ahead and turn your back on this basketball community and take a hike.

Just putting it out there...that new member is not Shaliq. Her IP is static, it's not a proxy, and she also has a Facebook (and has had one since August of 2009) with plenty of friends, over 200 pictures, etc. Sad that we're still doing this, but it's going to suck when it gets resolved pretty soon because it's going to end much differently than I had planned.

The act is getting tiring...I hope you realize that. It won't be just one member sent out, either. The site will move on, regardless of who it is, like we have for over seven years now. I truly am done stepping in and trying to keep guys around, though. It has been the one thing I have done far too much of over the years, and our activity has dipped significantly partially because the newer members don't feel welcome here. They don't have enough time to try and "fit in" before getting ran out the door by veteran members who, quite frankly, feel like this community should disable new registrations so they can all joke around most of the time they are on here. I've been disappointed with our outlook for a while now...and now, I'm going to pass the ball and watch the staff go to work.

Kyle and the mods are making the decisions.

According to discussions in our staff forum yesterday and today, it looks like we're going to be without a few of our members for quite some time.

I was all for it. I've always stated that Rondo can be a pretty good scorer when he wants to be, and I think his basketball IQ is much higher than Russell's. For me, Westbrook just changes the pace at all the wrong times, doesn't do much to get anyone else involved (definitely not a true point), and his decisions to attack come out of nowhere. Durant will catch fire, and you can tell he's locked in...and then, Westbrook misses a layup, takes a jumper off a screen, then turns the ball over...and I just roll my eyes. Boston would probably benefit from the deal, also...because they DON'T have a Durant. Pierce, KG and Terry would welcome someone that willingly comes in and scores 25-30 a night. It takes the ball out of their hands more, gives them rest...makes sustaining their play easier, and allows them to focus a bit more on the defensive end.

By the way, it wasn't about you saying LeBron is better...it was more about you leaving Kobe out of your list. That shocks me, because I just don't see how anyone can do that. Maybe today's Kobe, but not the guy that obliterated teams with absolutely no help, and an offense that wasn't fitting anyone but Bryant over a three-year time period. That's stuff that Jordan did, pre-Pip.

LeBron James 2011-12: 47.9%, 35% assisted 2010-11: 47.3%, 31% assisted 2009-10: 43.6%, 24% assisted 2008-09: 42.7%, 29% assisted 2007-08: 39.9%, 30% assisted Kobe Bryant 2011-12: 43.6%, 45% assisted 2010-11: 46.3%, 38% assisted 2009-10: 46.2%, 39% assisted 2008-09: 46.1%, 37% assisted 2007-08: 45.7%, 42% assisted Only two seasons, according to 82games.com. And of course LeBron is shooting better jumpers, now that he's in the post. You can say what you want, but that's a HUGE deal. Most of that efficiency has come in the post, to the point where he was actually leading the entire NBA in post FG percentage. Those are considered jumpshots. Kobe's high % on jumpshots was 46.7% (back in 2005-06), but I only could see everything post-Shaq. Kobe hasn't had the luxury to get down into the post for a long time. Older Kobe should be in there every chance he gets, but we had an overrated big man taking up space and doing absolutely nothing when it came to facilitating out of it. As far as shots being assisted on, that's the triangle offense, and then the "four out, one in" from last season (which has similar triangle properties, and one of the biggest reasons why Kobe had a horrible shooting percentage, by the way). The offense that Kuester installed last season was insanely stupid, trying to run through Bynum and turn Kobe into some spot-up shooter...a player he clearly isn't, and will never be. Yes, show me Youtube videos of LeBron doing that, and I'll give you my Youtube video of Kobe's defense, and some of the most incredible passes you've ever seen from him as well. Those two Boston teams were two of the top ten defensive teams of all time, along with a few from the Spurs' dynasty and the 2004 Detroit Pistons, and all of those teams centered their modified zone defensive schemes to stopping Kobe. There's no point in sticking that Celtics team in the same conversation with Thibs' Bulls, even though Thibodeau did tinker with Chicago until he created a very solid defensive unit (sans Boozer). LeBron had three games of 42% or less shooting (one being 33%) in that five-game series, and if it wasn't for that one big game (Game 2), he would have seen his average fall well below the 44% he finished with. Are you telling me he tore them up with jumpers? Minus the last two seasons, Kobe was getting doubled 23 feet away from the rim by many teams. In his 2005-06 season, he was getting doubled on the perimeter even without the ball in his hands, and I would know this more than anyone around here. Are you seriously telling me that teams do that with LeBron? Aside from Shaq, there has not been a single player that has drawn more defensive attention than Kobe Bryant in the last 20+ years I've been watching the game...not even Michael (although the rules were much different, but no point in diving into that). Come on dude...I know you don't believe teams give LeBron THAT much respect, especially with Wade and Bosh around, and the 4-5 different shooters the Heat can stick into the lineup. I've never, in my life, seen LeBron defend Howard well enough to make me sit on my couch and think, "Holy shit, he should be doing this for longer than 2-3 minutes of play." Ever. David West and LeBron are the same size, and West plays like a small forward. Same with Garnett, who is a bit taller, but when does KG ever care enough to try and back anyone into the low post? He's as bad as Gasol at taking those 18-footers all game long. Let's stick LeBron on Blake Griffin, a younger Carlos Boozer, Andrew Bynum, Tim Duncan, LaMarcus Aldridge, Karl Malone (hell, pick the 2004 Malone, if you want), Charles Barkley...and let's see how he fares. I suppose, in the same way we can talk about how easy Wilt had it against 6'8" centers and forwards defending him, we can discuss these current hybrid PF's. But, that's cool...again, I have yet to see LeBron defend the PG position consistently. He got Rose, but as I mentioned earlier, Kobe locked up Westbrook and made him look like a role player just a few years back...doesn't mean he can go and defend CP3, Rose, D-Will, and Rondo for an entire game (well, he did do it with Rondo, also...but that's defensive IQ more than anything). Dude, what? Pierce shot over 45% in just five of 20 playoff games last year. He was limping around and injured, and was pathetic against the Heat. He shot 34% against the Heat in the series, 40% against Philly, 43% against Atlanta. He was at the point where he was missing wide-open threes against Miami...badly. When did he kill anyone on the court, from any team? He even shot poorly from the floor in the regular season, hadn't done that bad since 2004 (he was injured for half the season in 2007, so I don't bother counting that train wreck of a season). Can't agree. At his best, in his ultimate prime, Kobe was better...and it was unfortunate that he had to play with Kwame/Mihm, Smush and Walton starting. Most of Kobe's prime seasons came with Shaq taking shots from him, clogging the paint, and creating for the shooters. Sure, Kobe's teammates (from Shaq to Gasol) helped Kobe win five rings, but once Gasol had entered the picture, Bryant was losing his athleticism, he had three fractured fingers (one severely), and his knee was nearly shot and already giving him problems. LeBron has been fortunate to run through seven years of Cleveland, with shooters stacked all around him...not enough to win it all, but enough to give him the opportunity to do whatever he wanted in games. He finds a post game, and suddenly, Chris Bosh is sitting at the three, knocking them down against Boston, and taking tons of mid-range jumpers, and the center-less Heat are able to stick LeBron anywhere on the court. You give me one game, against any elite team, with no teammates to help as much as usual. Keep it close the entire time, and have it come down to a clutch shot. Make sure the opposing player is the best scorer on the team. Who do I take? I'm taking the 2005-06 Kobe, and it's not even a question. It's close, though, and I will continue to say that (as much as it pains me to, because I hate LeBron's face), but I'm acting as if I was a neutral fan, and I'm taking Kobe the same way I would take Mike over LeBron and Kobe.

A franchise player is a primary scoring option that you build your contender around. If you have any doubt that said player is a primary scoring option, and even think for a second that he could be a better second option...then he's not a franchise player. Danny Granger is a great example. So is Andre Iguodala. Monta Ellis. Kevin Martin. Blake Griffin (when he finally fell back down to Earth). Even better example? Pau Gasol, when he was in Memphis. He was traded to LA, became a second option, and actually played better (individually) and won two championships in that role as well. Kevin Love is more Gasol than he is Dirk, as of today...not so much the style of play, but in the ability to fulfill that role. You asked if Dirk could win it all without Jason Kidd? Who knows, but he had Dallas contending for a decade without Kidd, and he was in the 2006 NBA Finals without him or Nash.

I'm not even going to reply to the Jordan/LeBron stuff, because deep down, you know he's not close, unless you didn't watch Jordan with your own two eyes. Two seasons, no more than that...and why are we talking about how Kobe shoots jumpers now? Kobe just came off a horrible shooting percentage (age is finally getting to him), and 2010-11 was injury-ridden. It only makes sense that LeBron's jumpshot percentage improved with Wade as his teammate, anyway. Let's go ahead and compare today's Tim Duncan to Andrew Bynum, I guess. My point stands. LeBron can hit open jumpers, but in games where a defensive-minded player isn't scared shitless of his drive to the rim (or he just gives him the step), LeBron struggles. Also, LeBron defends three positions. Pau Gasol is a center that plays like a small forward, so when he's out there muscling Gasol for two plays, that doesn't mean he's defending centers. He also gets toasted by PG's more often than not. I didn't see his ass move over and defend Rondo back in May/June, when Rondo decided to average 21/7/11 on nearly 50% FG, and going apeshit for 40+ in Game 2. He can take the call in one regular season game, but if he's not going to do it when Mario Chalmers, a gimpy Dwyane Wade, and Norris Cole are getting obliterated, then he doesn't defend the position well enough to be significant. Kobe took Russell Westbrook for the rest of the LA/OKC series a few years back, when Fisher was a matador, and Westbrook didn't hit 40% again. He took LeBron in January and February of 2009, and held him to two bad games, despite destroying his finger in one of those. Kobe has defended three positions for most of his career. By the way...that article you're referring to (posted on RealGM) is hilarious. It's the +/- stats, huh? Well, it also breaks down the fact that Wade is also extremely overrated on the defensive end, something you would argue against until your eyes bleed. But, yeah...those +/- stats... It really doesn't matter to me, anyway...don't even know why I brought Kobe up. Now that he's not cremating teams like he used to, everyone is opening up Basketball Reference again...so it's whatever.

I put this on my life, I'm almost about to laugh at the way you're making LeBron out to, basically, be the greatest player of all-time. Hands down, in fact...because everything you have said, pointed to, etc...it has trumped Mike already, because LeBron has done all of this against zone defenses, which are five times harder to play against than your typical hand-checking, physical defender. I was waiting for someone to do it after he won his first championship, but it didn't happen. You might as well go ahead and call LeBron the greatest player to ever play, no joke...because your last post pretty much tells me he would have 6+ championships, 5+ MVP's, a DPOY (or more), and scoring titles galore if he had Phil, Pippen, and a plethora of shooters camping around the perimeter. And saying Kobe is the complete player, and LeBron isn't, is justified because, once again, you and I both know LeBron is not the jumpshooter that Bryant (or MJ) have been over their careers, and he doesn't have the range when you stick someone in his face most of the game. He shot over 48% against Boston? That's not on jumpers, that's overall. I'm really tempted to go see all of his shot charts, but I don't have time to mess with it right now. In the game or two that he hit plenty of jumpers, they were over Bass and not defended the way they should have been (Bass didn't even contest well). This thing about Kobe not playing defense is kind of annoying, also. You keep giving me DWS and DRtg...so why not compare to, say, Gary Payton? We know he has been an incredible defender most of his career, yet, his numbers are pretty similar throughout (and even Kobe had a better season than Payton AND Jordan (supposedly) back in 2000, with a 98 DRtg). Looks like Derrick Rose has been one of the best defensive players in the league over the last two seasons, also (DRtg)...which is funny to me, because I know that's dead wrong. These are reasons why I started to slow down when it came to feeding my posts a bunch of stats. If I did, I'd be telling you that Kobe was as good of a defender as Payton, that Kevin Love is a franchise player, and that LeBron James is the greatest player since Wilt Chamberlain.

If you're going to penalize Kobe for not playing defense all the time, you might as well penalize Shaq for slacking off and getting surgery on company time, being lazy out on the court, and being on the bench late in plenty of games. I don't ever remember Shaq being a dominant defender, either...at least not in Los Angeles. His size made it difficult for slashers to get to the rim, basically a wall down low...but when big men found a way to get him to step a few feet out of the paint (like Duncan would do), Shaq never got back, and he left a gaping hole at the rim. Never, ever came out on the P&R because it would have resulted in the same thing. LeBron needs that ability because, unless you simply can't shoot because you're a seven-footer with massive hands (ex. Shaq), you should be expected to have a complete game if you're considered the greatest ever (that's the direction he wants to go, so why not?). What if Magic Johnson was a DPOY in the 80's, and was playing Payton-like defense at the point for most of his career? Does that mean we start talking about him overtaking MJ as the GOAT? I'd consider it. Dallas forced LeBron into jumpshots, and not only that, but they stuck an excellent defender in his face to contest them. Be honest...how many times do you see a Battier sticking a hand in LeBron's face? Very rarely, because if they take one step in, he's blowing them away. If you can use an excellent defensive player at the three, and stick a defensive anchor (and DPOY) in the paint, preventing the drive just a bit more than usual...you present a problem with LeBron, and quickly, we start screaming for his post game. Did we not all do that? It was the key to the Thunder series. Shot well against Boston? In the last few games of that series, may have been most of it, he was shooting poorly. Bayless brought it up on First Take, and the numbers were presented in a later show (Numbers Never Lie). I don't have time to go look up his numbers in the Bulls and Sixers series, but I don't remember him going ballistic with jumpers...and to say that he shoots jumpshots better than Jordan, I don't really know about that. LeBron's mid-range is nothing like MJ's. Would you say he shoots better jumpers than Bryant? If you told me LeBron scored 60 points in a game, I would immediately tell you he was getting to the rim and getting free throws, or in the post. Can't say the same for Kobe, who is probably one of the few guys I've ever seen that can have 50-point games on jumpshots. LeBron is the best player in the NBA now. It's not hard to admit that. He's going to be a top 10 when he retires, and it almost doesn't matter if he wins another championship. However, he's not the complete player, and for the same reason I can't stick Shaq on my list, I can't do it with LeBron...even though he's pretty close...closer than he was in 2011.

And the Heat... http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/forum/26-miami-heat-team-forum

First one has to be the Lakers (since I just created LakerNation's banner). http://www.discusshoops.com/forums/forum/24-los-angeles-lakers-team-forum You'll have to hit F5 (refresh) or the refresh button on your browser, more than likely, to see the new banner.

LeBron Kobe Durant Howard Wade CP3 D-Will Rose Melo Rondo I'm leaving a few out, but I just can't put Love in the top ten. Rondo (who I added on the list because he came to mind first, as I went back through the teams in alphabetical order) does more on the floor than K-Love does for his team, but if you wanted to argue that Love is more of a franchise player, you still have Dirk Nowitzki (who is better than Love) and Steve Nash can be argued for just how well he facilitates + shoots the ball (both MILES better than Love). I didn't realize it, but Love shot under 45% from the floor last season. A rebounding machine, no doubt, but people are going to argue that Drew Bynum is more of a franchise player, in that case.

In no order...I would mention Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Kobe and Hakeem. That's based on me believing everything that was said about Wilt (because, of course, none of us got to see him in his prime) and assuming he would go off for about 30/15 if he was playing in the 90's or today (instead of his ridiculous scoring and rebounding numbers in the 60's). I have to take Hakeem over Shaq simply because Hakeem was a monster on the defensive end, and that's where Shaq struggled a bit more than he should have. He was absolutely horrible defending the pick and roll, even when he was weighing in at under the 350 he was at in LA...and maybe that was due to laziness, but I can't ignore that. LeBron is very close on this list of five. If he can prove he can hit jumpers all game long, even from outside, with the best defenders in his face all game...then he's most definitely in the five, without a doubt, because that's the only thing I can say LeBron can't do at this point (since he finally developed an excellent post game).

Nope. He can score and board, but he just doesn't have that consistency. Definitely not a Dirk, and Larry Bird is entirely out of the question.

I'm amazed that Kobe is not in this conversation. In his ultimate prime, he had no holes in his game. On the other hand, Magic was not that great of a defensive player, and he couldn't shoot a three to save his life until the final 2-3 years of his career.