Real Deal

I don't understand why people use individual player comparisons to determine what team is better. Melo, Rose and Boozer are a tough trio. There's really no conflict there, not having to ask one of them to adjust their game to accommodate the others. However, losing Noah hurts. If the Bulls somehow keep Joakim (which is a longshot if they are going to get Melo), I would slip them into the pool of legitimate championship contenders.

Scola isn't doing much out there, playing bad help defense and he's missing easy buckets. Lithuania up seven early.

Argentina and Lithuania play in a few minutes, guys. It's probably going to be a damn good game. ESPN3.com

I'm still trying to figure out how that shooter got away with an OBVIOUS travel, lifting up for the shot and dropping the ball to the floor, then grabbing it back and passing it out. What the hell.

A lot of bogus calls (and no-calls) down the stretch. What was up with the referee blowing the whistle on our fast break? Then he looks over at Coach K and acknowledges that he screwed up. That's two points. I've seen three major flops leading to fouls already just in the second quarter. Major as in...not even close to a foul. The "hip-check" that Billups supposedly gave, the "push" they called Gordon for, the tie-up with Odom where the Russian just fell in the paint...it's ridiculous.

Stop gambling and play some defense, damn. Too many easy buckets for Russia.

Team USA (6-0) vs. Russia (5-1) TIME: 11:00 AM ET TV: ESPN Re-air at 1:30 AM ET, ESPN2.

He has a point, though. Russia is really our biggest rival in international play. http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/national/usarussia_another_classic_on_2010_09_08.html

Dude got choked, too...check it out: http://i51.tinypic.com/2jxv6e.jpg

Just need to clarify something quickly... So Jordan was out of his prime when he won his last three championships? Out of his prime in his 10th season? I have a feeling this will be useful later.

LMAO. Post of the year.

LOL...yeah, IP's don't match, but they are probably proxies.

Haha, why does everyone say this? Can't wait, man. Let me know if you need help with it.

He won't be playing like Glen Davis. He's got a post game and good footwork (good for a rook). Davis is a chubby small forward that attacks the rim recklessly or takes mid-range jumpers.

Can't really figure out what he sees in Augustin, and I'm not sure how Jrue will break out if he's going to be playing alongside both Turner and Iggy, unless he expects one of them to take very, very few shots per game, and Turner handle the ball much less than expected.

Go ahead and add the final post. I'm done hearing you trash Kobe with Jordan's scoring outputs to argue how well Duncan has produced in the post-season. Seriously...don't really care anymore.

Haha...now wait. I brought Jordan up first, but did NOT relate it to Kobe in any way, shape or form. I asked you if you would take a big (like Duncan) over Jordan (a guard). Then you added, "Kobe is not Jordan." I didn't say a word after that. And a post later, you add, "It's not like we're talking about Jordan, who had 1 career 60pt playoff game, 7 50pt playoff games, and 30 40pt playoff games." Re-read your posts, please. You drove Jordan right into this debate to smash Bryant's offensive production in the post-season, to make Duncan look like a saint. Simple as that. LOL, how did you shut it down? I didn't even compare the two post-season performances...you did that (see above). I simply stated, clear as day, that Bryant would have had many more "scoring outbursts" if he wasn't sharing the ball with someone that dropped 30-40 per game in the post-season. And no, I didn't say he would have more than Jordan. I stated he (Kobe) would have more than he (Kobe) does today. You shut that down by giving me Jordan's numbers versus Bryant's? Haha, okay? Ridiculous, dude. My statement had nothing to do with Jordan, but keep tossing him in there. Point was, Jordan didn't have to share the ball with a 30-40 PPG scorer...ever. By the time Kobe left Shaq and he returned to the playoffs, he was already a month or two away from 28 years old, and he played 12 total playoff games before adding Gasol. And I already gave you the defensive numbers for those teams, but you turn around and show me how good players did against them? Do I need to go see how well players did against the 1998 Jazz, and tell you that Stockton wasn't indestructable? Funniest of them all. He was out of his prime? He won two MVP awards during the second three-peat. He was 32 years old when the Bulls won 72 games, averaged 29/6/4 in 1997-98 and won the MVP award. From 1996-1998, Jordan played his 10th, 11th and 12th NBA seasons (actually, since he was out an entire season as a sophomore, you could say even less). Bryant is 32 years old heading into this upcoming season, his 15th season. Was he out of his prime last season? The year before? The year before that? So Kobe, in his 10th season (out of his prime, like Jordan was his 10th), put up 35 PPG? Jordan averaged more PPG in the Finals than Bryant? Mind-blowing! Iverson averaged 35.6 PPG against the Lakers in the Finals. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been shooting 30+ FGA per game if he had Shaq down low. Kobe has been feeding the post for his entire career with Phil Jackson. Jordan didn't have to feed the post -- Pippen was running the offense. One is the primary option AND facilitator, one is the primary option. Hey, you forgot to tell me why 35 guards shot 50+ percent from the floor during Jordan's era, and why just five have done it since he retired. Guess that's not too significant, though, because it downgrades his "amazing" shooting that is just unheard of for any guard. In Jordan's 11 of his last 18 Finals games (10th, 11th and 12th full seasons in the league, but according to you, out of his prime), he shot under 45%...under 41% in five of those 11. Point? When you play 4-7 games, one or two games will hurt your FG%...the same as one or two will boost it. When Kobe shot 51% against the Nets in the Finals, it was because he had three good shooting games. If he had missed 12 more shots in that series (just 12), his percentage drops to 41%. In a four-game series, the difference between 10 shots is going to be 6-10% or so. Jordan shot better than Kobe in the Finals? Man, good job pointing that out. It doesn't tell me much. That could mean that, in a four-gamer, Kobe missed 2.5 more shots per game. :o If Jordan misses an average of three more shots per game in the 1997 NBA Finals, he drops down to 40% FG, instead of the 46% he shot. Give Jordan two more buckets per game against Payton in 1996, and suddenly, Jordan goes from 41% to 51%, and you'd be bragging about how he dominated one of the best perimeter defenders of all-time, and wouldn't have to make excuses about Jordan exiting his prime. You see how ridiculous those Finals percentages are? But I see you're going to be on top of those, whether you're talking about Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, or Detlef Schrempf.

Gasol was 6-16 in Game 7, absolutely terrible for a big man. Kobe had 15 rebounds, just three less than Gasol's total. Please stop.

Merged about 15 different topics, guys. Please keep all discussion in here.

Haha.

What I saw in the head-to-head match-ups...the game where Bosh pulled down 13 and Gasol had just 9, Bryant had 16 that game. Drew had 9. Just one thing I noticed (went to H2H match-ups probably the same exact time you did, haha). For me, Gasol isn't THAT much better at crashing the glass, but I have to give him the upper hand because of his offensive rebounding and his length. I would trust Gasol more than Bosh, if I needed a last-second board, offensive or defensive rebound.

Hahaha, look at him smiling.

Rubio has absolutely sucked. I'm not sure if it's because of that screen that Pietrus hit him with (the neck problems) or what, but maybe it's just a coincidence he has been playing badly since.

Why are you nut-hugging MJ in this topic? Low FG%? Jordan shot 50% easily, right? Do you know how many guards shot 50%, 15+ PPG, when Jordan was playing? 1. Otis Birdsong 2. Rolando Blackman 3. Mo Cheeks 4. Walter Davis 5. Sherman Douglas 6. Clyde Drexler 7. Joe Dumars 8. Blue Edwards 9. Dale Ellis 10. Sleepy Floyd 11. George Gervin 12. Penny Hardaway 13. Derek Harper 14. Ron Harper 15. Jeff Hornacek 16. Jay Humphries 17. Kevin Johnson 18. Magic Johnson 19. Reggie Lewis 20. Lewis Lloyd 21. Jeff Malone 22. Sarunas Marciulionis 23. Reggie Miller 24. Gary Payton 25. Drazen Petrovic 26. Terry Porter 27. Paul Pressey 28. Mark Price 29. Alvin Robertson 30. Byron Scott 31. Derek Smith 32. Kenny Smith 33. John Stockton 34. Sedale Threatt 35. Doug West After 1996, until 2003 (when Jordan retired), not one guard shot 50% and scored 15 PPG or more. From 1996 (Kobe's draft year) until the 2004-2005 season, no guard shot 50% and scored 15 PPG or more. Since Kobe was drafted, only these players have done it... 1. Monta Ellis 2. Steve Nash 3. Tony Parker 4. Chris Paul 5. Deron Williams Credit Imadul at TLN for that list. Are you seriously going to throw that mess out there for me? Again, it's easy to make a player look bad. Jordan was stuck in a box by Gary Payton. Bryon Russell was screwing with his brain. Why bring up what Kobe has done in the Finals, and try to compare that to Jordan? The Utah Jazz were 17th in the NBA, defensively, when Jordan shot bad against them in the NBA Finals. Bryon Rusell and Jeff Hornacek were defending Jordan. Karl's Sonics had a 102.1 defensive rating, second in the league, mainly because of Gary Payton. Would you like to know the 2004 Pistons' defensive rating? 95.4. Boston was also under 100. Both the 2004 Pistons and the 2008 Celtics were among the best defensive teams the league has seen in the last two decades. The 1986 Celtics held opponents to 46% shooting. The 2008 Celtics held them to 41.9% from the floor. The 2004 Pistons? Opponents shot 41.3% against them. Has Jordan ever faced a defense like that in the NBA Finals? Nope...not even close. OPP FG% & Defensive Rating, Finals teams vs. Jordan... 1991 Lakers: 46.2%, 105.0 1992 Blazers: 45.4%, 104.2 1993 Suns: 47.9%, 106.7 1996 Sonics: 43.8%, 102.1 1997 Jazz: 43.8%, 104.0 1998 Jazz: 43.9%, 105.4 OPP FG% & Defensive Rating, Finals teams vs. Kobe... 2000 Pacers: 44.6%, 103.6 2001 Sixers: 42.9%, 98.5 2002 Nets: 42.9%, 99.5 2004 Pistons: 41.3%, 95.4 2008 Celtics: 41.9%, 98.9 2009 Magic: 43.3%, 101.9 2010 Celtics: 45.1%, 103.8 Please dude...give me a break. To justify Duncan's "eliteness" over Kobe, you use Jordan as your weapon of choice, then you start slamming Bryant's Finals performances? You talk about how bad Phoenix was defensively (help defense), but you ignore Bell and Marion...say that those man defenders didn't matter. Teams had to commit to doubles against Jordan, or else they couldn't double him...not so much in this era. A few YT highlights aren't going to prove that he was doubled, or tripled, as much as Bryant. Not only that, but you said it yourself earlier: the Spurs ran three or four of the greatest defensive teams of all-time when they were winning their rings...just another opponent with elite defenders (Duncan and Bowen) attempting to keep Bryant at bay. Yeah dude, we get it: Jordan is incredible. He's the GOAT. We don't need to be told that over and over again.