Real Deal

Well, I would say Zach Randolph, but I really don't consider him important enough to mention. But still on topic, what exactly are we discussing? A loser as in...a bum player? A loser as in...a star that can't win? I was going in the direction of, well, both...haha.

Same here, because I think Mills can be a decent player coming off the bench for them, but with Andre Miller sneaking his way into Portland, I'm not sure just how much playing time Mills would get to begin with.

Welcome to the site, Stephon and H.R. Stick around. We'll get more and more active as the season approaches, and we cover all NBA games, all the time. http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/index.php?/forum/82-nba-gameday

Al Jefferson will start, Bynum will be the backup center. Nene may give him a run for his money, though.

Both of you drop the attacks. The biggest loser this decade has been McGrady? Probably so. There was so much potential there, but every playoff visit became a quick exit. Gilbert Arenas comes to mind. Can't say much there. His promises (ASG MVP guarantee and the 50 points against Portland) along with his blogging and his inability to stay on the court in the last two seasons, plus getting eliminated three consecutive times by his rival team (Cavs), I don't know... How about Vince Carter and all the troubles and controversy he's been through?

Erick loves defense.

Blake Griffin.

Duncan plays the four constantly...but if you're listing him at the five, he's better than Howard, by miles. He's the far better developed offensive player, second or third most skilled player in the NBA, and his defensive awareness and his man-to-man defense is better than Dwight's. If Yao was healthy, it would be a coin toss between him and Dwight, with Duncan coming out on top, regardless. But I'll say Duncan is a true forward, and I'll make a mini-list of my top ten. All players at full health... 1) Yao Ming 2) Dwight Howard 3) Amar'e Stoudemire 4) Al Jefferson 5) Shaquille O'Neal 6) Andrew Bynum 7) Kendrick Perkins 8) Nene 9) Emeka Okafor 10) Brook Lopez I know Bargnani and Okur did alright last season, scored buckets and all, but they play zero defense AND play like they are small forwards or two-guards. And I'm going to value defense, Erick, but I can't say that Dwight is the best center in the league. I think that has a lot to do with Orlando's success which, to be honest, has a lot to do with Howard's teammates.

Oh well. He had a chance and screwed it up. People knew he was a pothead when he was buying it from dudes in Topeka, and you always got a sense that he was going to get busted for it in college or the pros.

Haha, I think we've recovered all of our missing Lakers fans now. Welcome back, bro. Let's go get some other fans now.

Wow, there's that defense he was rumored to have!

Funny that you mention that, Sean, because since Jordan was drafted up until his first championship, it was the Celtics OR the Pistons that made the Finals in the East...and no other team. In fact, from Boston's championship in 1981, to Detroit's victory in 1990, there were only two years neither of those teams ended up in the NBA Finals. And, well, Boston and Detroit were responsible for five championships that decade (well, plus 1990, haha). Now, we saw what Boston did with Larry Bird...but here's my beef with all of this: when Jordan and the Bulls won six championships in the 90's, and there was all that mention of Scottie Pippen, where do we start bringing up Kevin McHale, who is a top five power forward of all-time? If we're going to look at Pippen in that light, we might want to do the same with McHale, and start rating him a better power forward than Charles Barkley and Karl Malone because, well, Malone didn't do anything without Stockton, and Barkley couldn't even get to the Finals without Kevin Johnson. See, there's no reason to look at it that way. Phil Jackson, Tex Winter and the triangle offense turned role players into all-stars, or potential all-stars. BJ Armstrong is one of them. Odom is a borderline all-star as a starting four. Andrew Bynum will make the all-star team next season, more than likely. But here's the thing: Jordan and Pippen didn't win anything without Phil Jackson. Doug Collins couldn't pull the team together, and Phil jumped in and applied the offense, started Pippen every game as the point-forward, lessened Jordan's facilitating and gave Jordan the green light to run options out of the reverse triangle, and it took just two seasons to bring home the first of three consecutive. Same thing happened in Los Angeles, ironically. Kobe and Shaq, under Del Harris, struggling to find their way to the Finals, and Phil came in for the 1999-00 season, applied the triangle, ran the triangle through Shaq and Kobe, and it took just one season to bring home the first of, yep, three consecutive. Fast-forward to Kobe and Gasol...but you know that story. I can claim that Penny Hardaway would've been one of the greats, also, seeing that he was 38-21 in the starting five (on pace to win 54-55 games or so, pre-injury) when Shaq left Orlando, and all he had was Rony Seikaly...but if I were to do that, I'd almost have to downgrade what Shaq did in 1995, when the Magic won 57 games and got to the Finals. Pippen had it made. He didn't have to take that final shot. He didn't always have to defend the best player (Jordan was arguably a better defender). He didn't always have to score 25 (and Pippen never averaged that many points, unlike Bryant did while Shaq was averaging 30). Pippen didn't have to lead. He didn't have to be the lone all-star. But Grant Hill didn't have Michael Jordan to draw attention away from him. He didn't have the luxury of preserving energy when he needed to. He had to score the most points on his team. He had to play the best defense. He had to run the offense and set everyone up for their shots. Yet, funny thing is, he still shot an amazing percentage from the field and was still able to pull down the boards, throw the assists, score the points and even manage to throw nearly the same amount of turnovers to worse teammates. Jordan and Grant Hill would've been the duo to sweep a couple of teams in the NBA Finals, and truthfully, I really don't think Jordan would've retired in 1993 if it was Grant, and I really don't think he would've retired in 1998, either.

Nope, but that's something for me to do tomorrow. It'll tear up the team forums temporarily, until I recache all of those skins. You mean the Iverson-Brown story? That section? I'll do something better. This home page is really just me trying to see what you guys like and don't like.

Yeah, I was thinking that once I placed them. Hit refresh.

Testing it for the home page...but there's something not allowing me to vote FROM the home page. Blah.

Don't vote in this poll. Thank you.

Well, he's not going to do jack in the league if he keeps gaining weight each summer.

Expect Russell to struggle because everyone else is banged up? Uh, I expected Russell to struggle ever since we decided to go with a QB versus Adrian Peterson, the clear-cut choice for us.

Sean just covered what I wanted to (haha), but to this...we're talking Grant Hill after an injury that should've put him away, Terrell Brandon style. Hill's ankle injury was said to have been one of the worst injuries not only in basketball history, but in the major sports (among all ankle fractures and complete breaks). But, yet, after multiple surgeries, he comes back and re-develops his game to include an even better jumper, and much more improved off-the-ball play? His post game even improved. Less slashing, by far...but to see him change his game in that manner, with that injury, and to become an all-star once again, that tells me that he wasn't out of his prime (and hadn't even stepped into it), and that he had the potential to do that ADDING on to the already-solid game he developed in the first six years of his career, and that is scary. Just for kicks, I'll tell a story. Back in 1998, I saw Grant Hill play Jordan and his Bulls. The two games were close together, actually...a month apart. Hill defended Jordan in both games, held him to 42% or less from the field in both, but was devastated by Scottie Pippen, since Scottie took the initiative to defend Hill, while Jordan took Dumars (and locked him up badly). Well, the next meeting, Hill held Jordan again, but he also dumped almost 40 on Pippen, with 10 boards, three steals and five assists. It was probably the best game I've seen against Scottie, one-on-one, up until Bryant dropped 33/14/12 on Pippen in 2002. As Sean said, Grant Hill was the 90's LeBron, minus the freakishly-muscular body, but plus the one-on-one defensive skills and post game. Pippen is the 90's version of Ron Artest. I'm pretty sure I know which one I'd take out of both groups.

As I stated in another topic, I consider these groups to be made up of all-star players. Our Big Three will more than likely be Kobe, Gasol and Bynum, since Drew has life a bit easier with Yao out, Shaq back in the East, and Jefferson recovering from a more-severe knee injury.

Nope. It's hard to recache 30 "children skins" under one main, so I split them into two, to lessen the load on the server (if that makes sense).

Sasha Vujacic. He's too obsessed with being some international teen idol, scores 69 total points in 23 playoff games, zero points in the NBA Finals, and walks away with a ring.

He averaged his 26/7/5 in that sixth season of play, shooting 49% from the field. LeBron just finished his sixth season, also, averaging 28/8/7 on 49% from the field. LeBron's 2009 season topples any season Pippen ever had, and any season Pippen would've ever had. Hill nearly reproduced it statistically, minus the wins (LeBron and Hill's teammates differ, extremely). I love Scottie. I'll admit that he was the best defender at his position, of all-time. I'll admit he played a vital role in the six rings Chicago won. But I'm not ready to say he would've been even greater without Jordan and as a primary option, and I would be willing to bet that Grant Hill would've been in the NBA ECF's if he had suddenly come back 100% healthy in Orlando. Just look at what he did years after being out and having multiple surgeries...the 20/5/3 on 51% FG season where he had to endure Steve "Franchise-Killer" Francis. The amazing thing about Grant, though, is that the seasons he has shot better than 50% from the field, they have all occurred recently...four of his last five. It's something that Scottie did just twice in a 17-season career.

For that, I may replace the Nash banner with an Oliver Miller one.

It was a shot at him (because of Steve Nash). But, with that said, Pippen placed third because the third, fourth and fifth-place vote-getters received a total of 11 first-place votes, while Hakeem Olajuwon (66) and David Robinson (24) took the rest in a blowout. Not to mention four of the five were centers, the other two being Shaq and Ewing. When the spotlight was on how Chicago was going to do in the regular season, and they actually won just 2-3 games less than they did in 1992-93, seven people thought that was insane. Thing is, among the top four...Hakeem, The Admiral and Shaq averaged 27 PPG, 11 RPG and 3 BLK or better...and quite frankly, Pippen's numbers were probably a bit less impressive than Malone and Barkley's stats, but because their teams won 53 and 56 games, respectively, nobody cared...and the defending MVP (Charles) didn't get a single first-place vote, and neither did Malone.