AboveLegit

Pippen is a much better defender and has a much wider arsenal on offense than Artest. I'm not at all ignoring what Hill was capable of achieving had he not been struck with an injury, but to say he could end up better and more successful than Pip is where I'd draw the line. It's hard for me personally since I'm much younger than you both, so I can't bring up any personal thoughts of Pippen and Grant, but I gave it my best shot.

Good post BFT. There's a few parts of your post I disagree with though. First off, Pippen would be able to lead the Bulls to 2-3 Championships, players tend to develop the leadership role among other intangibles as their careers' progress, it's unfair to just base his whole career off of what you saw of him in those very few years without Jordan. Before Pippen hit his stride, Jordan couldn't win with Pippen on the team. Remember, it took until Pippen and Grant's fourth year for them to beat the Pistons. Third, Pippen placed 4th in MVP voting in the only year he had in his 20s without Jordan for the whole year. Fourth, the 94 Bulls won 2 less games than the 93 Bulls after replacing Jordan with Pete Myers in October... Finally, Scottie Pippen took Rasheed Wallace and a bunch of has beens, never was(s), and Jermaine O'neal BEFORE he played to a fourth quarter lead in game 7 of the 2000 WCF v. Shaq and Kobe in their physical primes. If that game is iced, Pip ends up leading a team to a ring at age 34. Put '92 Pippen on the 00 Blazers with Rasheed Wallace, who is far from Michael Jordan, and they walk with that ring. It's not even close. Kobe goes away more than he ever has in his career, more than Tayshaun Prince took him out of his game, and it's over. He was actually 34 that year. Pippen is definitely not a player who needed Michael Jordan to win a ring. Not to mention, without Hugh Hollins call, the Bulls are playing a badly overmatched Pacers team in the ECF in 94 with Pete Myers replacing Jordan. Here are Michael Jordan's records without Scottie Pippen: 84-85 Bulls 38-44 First round loss 85-86 Bulls 40-42 First round loss 01-02 Wizards 37-45 02-03 Wizards 37-47 Jordan never won more than 40 games without Pippen. Jordan's playoff record without Pippen? 1-9 Jordan's playoff record in Pippen's first 3 years? 23-25 Jordan's playoff record in year's 4-6 of Pippen's career? 45-13 Pippen's best record without Jordan? 55-27, placed fourth in MVP voting Lost in seven games to the Knicks, who took the Rockets to game 7 of the NBA Finals.

In 1992, someone gave Scottie Pippen a first-place vote for MVP. Pippen finished ninth in the voting that season, behind Jordan, Drexler, and some of the other usual suspects. Scottie wasn't a superstar scorer, however, he was capable of giving you 22 PPG on 48%... so he was a superstar in terms of FG efficiency from the SF spot... Scottie Pippen was 1st team all NBA in the two seasons he played the majority without MJ... that pretty much should tell you something. And out of the 5 seasons you talked about where he averaged over 50% from the field, his highest average was 19ppg.. The rest? 15ppg, 14ppg, 13ppg, and 12ppg. if Scottie Pippen was playing today, in his physical prime, he'd be one of the legitimately coveted non-centers along with Wade, Bryant, Paul and James, and the #2 player at the SF position behind Lebron. I also believe that his all around game is as good as James.. in that, for whatever Lebron has an advantage on in terms of scoring, Scottie is a better defender. But it's no secret in the NBA. From 18 PPG upward, there is a premium on those points on a nightly basis.

Mike James, I cannot stand him on the court, or even wearing a Wizards warm up jersey. He simply doesn't know what team basketball is.

As the second option, Scottie Pippen got MVP votes in 2000, how many second fiddles can say they did that? Either way, Pippen wasn't too far behind Hill on the offensive end. Pip was more well rounded, and a much better defender. Scottie Pippen is the best ever at his position, Hill can't even make a defensive second team over Derrick McKey, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, and Theo Ratliff. Also, didn't Hill play like 6 seasons before he got hurt? We got to see how good he was in his prime.

Ramadan was the first month in which the Religion of Islam started up.

This month is significant because the Holy Quran was given to our Prophet in this Month, which is why we take this month into our daily lives.

The media was far different from what it is today, you think they gave out awards because of that players popularity like they do with LeBron James? Scottie earned his MVP votes.

1. The media is far different then from what it is now. 2. If that's the attitude you bring to this discussion, I rest my case. 3. Give Grant Hill Bill Cartwright, Horace Grant, Toni Kukoc, Pete Myers and the rest of the Bulls supporting cast, you think he wins 55 games? A great third option, a pretty good fourth option, a great sixth man... not much of a second option to speak of unless you're using words like "good" and he won 55 games, 2 less than they won with JORDAN instead of Pete Myers the year before.

Ramadan isn't really considered a holiday, it's considered a Holy Month. Unlike American holidays, we're not partying or having a great time, we're focusing on our religion.

If we're discussing stats, it really favors Grant Hill more, just because of the fact that he played with Lindsey Hunter as his second fiddle, while Pippen was playing with the ultimate stat grabber, Michael Jordan. Hill was a solid defender, but even he couldn't grab one Defensive team honor, while Pippen was being noticed as the best perimeter defender of that time. You did mention Hill's averages during the year when he finished third in MVP voting (20/10/7), he lead his team to 54 wins, when Scottie was in the MVP race, he won 55 games. Not a huge difference, but it counts.

Probably not, but either way, we had a chance to see how well he could perform as the number one option. It isn't fair that we haven't seen Pippen's true ability as the 1st fiddle..but even when he was on the Blazers..he was never given the role as the 1st fiddle, mostly being the 2nd or 3rd option..even behind Rasheed Wallace. This is my take on this: Grant's early career vs Pippen's prime.... - Grant Hill was the superior scorer - They were equal in the rebounding column - Pippen was the superior defensive player - Grant Hill was the superior passer - Pippen was the better athlete, body shape When I say superior..I don't mean by far. Hill was just slightly a better passer. Another note I found...Hill's presence of just being on the court, he looked like a real leader since his rookie year, and he had determination to get better and work hard...Pippen didn't look like he had those leadership qualities, but that may have been due to Jordan..

Scottie Pippen got to play one complete season without Jordan before the age of 32: He placed 3rd in MVP BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant made their only all star appearances The Bulls won 55 games, just two less than the 93 team which had Jordan

Well it is in the Islamic Calendar. Just like June is in the American Calender, Ramadan is in the Islamic one.

Next week exactly. I go back to school on the 31st

Yeah we got a few Muslims on OTR. I've been sick all day, but am still fasting, man it's tough.

Link fixed.

Both players had tremendous amount of potential, both players were question marks in NBA history, and both players are always somehow dragged into questions such as "What if he was healthy" or "What is he was the first option?" My question to you is simple, who would have been the better player if they were healthy and were the first option on their team? How would this effect their legacy? Will they be mentioned more and more with the former greats of the game, or will they still be overshadowed?

Link Gilbert played in Southeast D.C. for an organization named "Barry Farms", he finished the game with 35 points and 7 assists.

Amazing. Great job Brandon.

No Nas- Halftime

lol I'm so glad I ate! People do get amazed at me during school, it's really not that hard. I bet you most people on OTR can fast for at least one day.

One hour left for me, it isn't too hard, much easier than I expected.

Today has been going well, haven't gotten too hungry yet.

No Living in Pain- Biggie feat Nas and Tupac