Built Ford Tough

So I'm going to completely overreact off of a sample size of preseason and 2 games, but I'm an idiot for ever wanting Suggs over Barnes. I absolutely love Scottie and think he has the potential to be a top 10 player in the NBA during his prime if his development goes according to plan. His feel for the game in combination with his size and athleticism is super rare. If he ever develops a reliable long range jump shot (his mid range game is way more advanced than I had anticipated) he is going to be a problem for the league.

Pretty simple. Who do you have for: MVP DPOY ROY MIP 6MOY

It is hard to rank him since he is still so young but I find it hard to not have him in the top 5, regardless of how great those 5 are. Duncan is number 1 still and I won't hear any debate otherwise. Outside of him though? Giannis accomplishments are right up there with any of the other top guys. Obviously he doesn't have the raw numbers that the others do since he is at best halfway through his career, but his accolades already matchup with all those other guys. 2X MVP Finals MVP DPOY 3X 1st Team All NBA 2X 2nd Team All NBA 3X All Defensive 1st team. What other PF has those accolades? The only argument for him not to be in the top 5 is longevity because. what he has done so far in his career puts him ahead of every other PF other than Duncan.

Would you take him over Mobley or Suggs? It looks like Green is going 2 to Houston.

Will do but most of the games I play are sports games. UFC and NHL mostly. Love me some Uncharted and Red Dead Redemption though. I guess RDR2 is the only one where online is a real possibility. I don't play very often at all but next time I will add you for sure. Question though that I forgot to ask the first time, are you playing on PS5? Cause I only have a PS4.

What do you all think of the Scottie Barnes hype? Is it the typical "we have a clear top 4 so lets drum up some interest with another player" or do you think he has a legit chance of cracking into the top 4?

Hey man, you could've had Lowry for the extravagant price of Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. lol

I think Holiday gets too much hate for his offensive struggles. He is giving Paul absolute fits on defense, picking him up before half court and hounding him all game long, which is forcing the Suns to run their offense through Booker or watch Paul turn the ball over 10 times a game. He's been a one man wrecking crew to the Suns offense on the perimeter. I don't remember the last time I've seen Paul look this flustered trying to initiate offense. Then offensively, obviously nobody is pleased with the atrocious shooting percentages that he is putting up in this series (and really, all playoffs, but again, look at the guys he has been guarding), but you have to take into consideration the immense load he's shouldering on the defensive end in addition to the fact that the Bucks really don't have many options to initiate and run the offense. Don't get me wrong, Holiday is far from the prototypical point guard but when the other ball handlers on the team are Middleton, who is looking to get his, and Giannis who needs to conserve energy when he can, I get why he is taking such a big offensive load. Ideally he would be more productive, but I can live with it as long as he is basically eliminating Paul from the game.

Supposedly Jalen Green already has a promise and is considering shutting down workouts. I imagine that would be to the Rockets at 2. No way I'd shut down workouts so that I could go to the Cavs haha. With that said looks like It would be Mobley or Suggs for Toronto. Could just be grandstanding but there are rumours about Cleveland looking to deal Sexton now which would make them taking a guard like Suggs a lot more likely. But they are also the Cavs and are the organization that took Anthony Bennett number 1 and Dion Waiters at 4, so if any team is going to throw a wrench in things it'll definitely be the Cavs haha.

I went out to watch the Euro Finals with some friends (It's coming home? More like it's coming to Rome!!) and then went to the beach afterwards so I missed the game today. Just from looking at the box score though, what Giannis is doing is ridiculous. I've always liked him so I[m glad to see him balling out in the Finals and quieting some of the moronic haters.

No. I'm extremely high on Suggs. I think any of the top 4 in this years draft go 1st overall last year. I'd be very pissed off if the Raptors traded down from 4. I'm very high on every one of the top 4 in this class and I'm not nearly as high on Wiseman or the non Barnes/Kuminga tier at 5 and 6. The only trade I'd be happy with moving the 4th pick for is if the Thunder were offering Shai for it, but I don't see a scenario where they'd do that. If I'm not getting SGA, I'm happily taking whichever of Suggs, Green or Mobley are there at 4 and adding them to the OG, FVV, Siakam core.

I'll say Murray mostly because he has the potential to become that secondary playmaker that they desperately need to compliment Jokic. Porter is going to be a great scorer for years to come but I think the more versatile offensive game that Murray brings is going to be more beneficial in the long run. His playmaking and shot creation will prevent teams from being able to just load up on Jokic and ignore everyone else on that end of the floor.

Yeah I get the same impression too. Booker is great but I don't look at this Suns team as his team. He is the future of the team for sure but there is no doubt in my mind that this is, and has been all year, Chris Paul's team. Booker obviously stepped up big time in Paul's absence against the Clipper, but lets be real too, the Clippers were missing Kawhi who means more to either team than anyone else does. Just so happens that a Paul-less Suns team led by Booker is better than a Kawhi-less Clipper team led by George.

My guess is that they end up with Suggs, which I am perfectly fine with as I think he is the perfect Lowry replacement. Brings all of the intangibles that make Lowry special while also being an elite athlete. With that said, I don't think that guys like Allen or Wood are necessarily the types of pieces that you pass on a potential 7 foot force like Mobley could be though. He looks like he is going to be an elite defensive center once he bulks up and I am encouraged by his shooting percentages that he won't be able to be run off the floor, or at least game planned around, like a Rudy Gobert is. He seems like he is the prototypical new breed big man that you want. Super mobile 7 footer with great defensive instincts and the potential ability to spread the floor. HIs ceiling is so intriguing that it just makes me so skeptical that a team will pass on him, certainly not when the guys who are blocking him are Christian Wood and Jarrett Allen. The thing too is I think Suggs and Mobley would both benefit tremendously from playing with Lowry for a season. Kyle is one of the best points in the league at involving his bigs in the game so Mobley would be a great fit learning how to play with an elite point guard which is such an important attribute for a big me in this day and age. Then obviously Suggs is a Lowry clone so if he can learn from the master for a year, perfect.

The biggest knock on Chris Paul has always been his playoff failures. It was always that he was the "Point God" in the regular season but could never break through in the playoffs. I think there was an argument to make that he was the best player in NBA history to never make the finals. Now that he has made the elusive FInals, what does that do to his legacy? Also, what would winning a championship do? Does that suddenly push him from a top 5 PG of all time to maybe a top 3?

Two questions for you then. 1. Did you ever consider anyone on the 04 Pistons as a superstar? I kind of view this Suns team as a similar team to that Pistons team where it was a group of great players (Booker, Ayton and CP3 vs Billups, Rip and the Wallaces') more so than just a superstar leading a team. 2. If Young leads the Hawks, who everyone thought was first round fodder to the finals (Giannis injury aside considering Young is banged up himself), is he a superstar? Even if he loses, nobody ever though they'd make any sort of run in the playoffs, especially once Hunter went down with injruy. I realize we are getting away from the Utah portion of this discussion but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter and figure no point in making a new thread.

So now that theyve moved into the top 4, who do you like most between Mobley, Green or Suggs?

I'll be the first to admit that I suck at video games but what type of games you play? Would love to game with you but I suck at most games haha.

I dont disagree with anything you said, but the one thing I am curious about is why you specifically mentioned Booker, What seperates him from what Mitchell has done the last two years or what Trae Young has done this year?

Touché because you are right. I think the term superstar gets thrown around way too much. My definition of a superstar, whether rightly or wrongly, is a player who I think can lead a team to a championship as the guy. My list of superstars would probably be something like: LeBron. Giannis, KD, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, Jokic, Embiid, Doncic, Lillard. Then you have arguements for guys like Harden and Davis who are close, but I just don't think they can do it without an equally talented player alongside them. You could honestly throw Giannis in this group too and I wouldn't be upset. My problem is when people throw out the term superstar for guys like Jayson Tatum, Bradley Beal and those second tier type of stars. I guess the better question is do you think that Donovan Mitchell can lead a team to a championship as the best player on the team?

I'm obviously late responding to this since the serious is over but I'm still irrationally upset about Giannis not ever guarding KD in game 7. Seeing him playing off the ball on that final possession of regulation made me so angry. I don't know if it is him or Bud, but him never taking on the challenge frustrated me beyond belief this series. Don't get me wrong he played great overall in game 7 but him never taking that KD assignment made me think less of him as the supposed two way force and top 5 player he is supposed to be.

After one of the most embarrassing performances from a supposed top player in the NBA where Simmons was afraid to even shoot the ball (didn't take a FG in the 4th quarter of games 4-7 if I remember correctly) and setting the NBA record for worst FT% in a playoff run. He clearly has his strengths. He is a phenomenal defender everywhere on the floor and is great at grabbing a rebound and pushing the floor to get a mismatch in transition. However, his complete lack of ability to do anything in the half court offense and his terrible fit alongside Joel Embiid clogging up the paint for him and forcing him to the perimeter is clearly not working. However, if you trade him now you are dumping him at an all time low value. Problem is if you hold onto him you are definitely going to piss off Embiid because I get the impression that he is fed up with Simmons and its clear that duo isn't working. It is going to be an interesting offseason in Philly.

If you want to give picks go ahead. I was more specifically just interested in seeing what teams people wanted to see move up, but more discussion is always better.

I've taken a lot of criticism on my stance that he is just strictly a good player and not the type of guy that can eleveate his team to a championship. What say you?36

Nickeil Alexander Walker had some glowing praise for SVG on his way out. Andrew Lopez on Twitter: "Nickeil Alexander-Walker’s IG post on Stan Van Gundy’s departure: “It was a roller coaster ride to say the least, but nevertheless I appreciate you…” https://t.co/AkIXDW6VdO" / Twitter