Built Ford Tough

I'd deny I offered that package if I was the Warriors too.

I know plenty of people from where I live (about 4-5 hours away from Vancouver in a town with about 38,000 people) who have never watched a hockey game in their lives who were decked out in Canucks gear when they found out that Vancouver was playing in the Finals. They couldn't even name one team that the Canucks had beaten in the playoffs, hell some of them didn't even know that they were playing the Bruins in the Stanley Cup Final, so I think it is a very safe bet to assume that the situation would be a lot worse in the city that the team plays in, a city with over a million people living in it. was much worse than my small town. It is like this every year when the Canucks make the playoffs and the same people who are claiming to be die hard fans won't watch a game again until they find out that the Canucks are doing well again and it is the popular thing to do. I'm not saying that absolutely no Canuck fans were taking part in the garbage that happened after the game because that would be just stupid, but just going off of what I have seen, and know of from all of the times that I have been to Vancouver, I just don't think that anymore than about 10-20% of the people rioting the other night were actually Canuck fans. I'd say the same thing if this were to happen in Boston (my dad grew up as a Habs fan so he obviously hated the Bruins and that hatred was pretty much passed down to both me and my brother) or Ottawa (the other team that I don't like as they were the Leafs main rivals when I really started getting into hockey during the early 00's) so its not like this is some homerism or anything like that on my part, especially considering that I'm not even really a Canucks fan and wouldn't even care about the outcome had it not been the Bruins that they were playing.

Couldn't get to sleep so I started poking around to possibly find some draft related stuff, but instead I found some more news on the Raptors coaching vacancy. I know that I have a thread dedicated to the coaching search, but I figure this was big enough news to warrant having its own thread. http://twitter.com/#!/STEIN_LINE_HQ/status/81540661391785984 http://twitter.com/#!/STEIN_LINE_HQ/status/81540966485475328 http://twitter.com/#!/STEIN_LINE_HQ/status/81542449662660608 I knew it was pretty much between Frank and Casey, but it definitely seems like Casey is who the Raptors are after considering Stein's comments that are posted above and the fact that Doug Smith and some other Raptors reporters are also mentioning that Casey is the front runner after both him and Frank had interviews this past week. If I had to pick between the two I think I would still go with Frank, but I have also liked him as a coach for a while now and never really paid much attention to Casey when he was the head coach in Minnesota or even during his time with the Mavs up until this season. I definitely wouldn't be upset if he ends up getting the job as at least we know that the days of players giving half assed efforts on the defensive end would be over (yes, I'm looking in Andrea Bargnani's direction) as Casey definitely doesn't seem like he is the type of coach who will pamper his players like the Raptors have had in the past. I do worry about what he will be like on the offensive end of the court, though. I definitely agree that the Raptors need to find a hard nosed defensive coach, but they still can't neglect the offensive end of the floor and from the limited amount of Casey that I know, I worry that he might be another Sam Mitchell on the offensive end, only worse because Mitchell had guys like Ford and Bosh to bail his terrible offensive schemes out. This current Raptors team has nobody who can create their own shot on a consistent basis so a lot of the teams offensive will come in the flow of the offense. Either way though, it is a nice change. Whether it is Frank or Casey that ends up getting the job, I am much more comfortable with either one of them as the Raptors next coach over bringing back Triano for another year despite the fact that I didn't hate Triano nearly as much as the large majority of Raptor fans.

13,000 volunteers were cleaning up downtown Vancouver today. Pretty bad how this is going to be yet another stain on the Vancouver Canuck fan base when 90% of the idiots running around last night likely weren't even hockey fans and don't know the first thing about hockey. The Cancuck fans in Rogers Arena were great with their reactions to the Bruns getting the cup as only Marchand and Boychuk were boo'ed (which was to be expected) as well as Bettman, but it is pretty much a tradition to boo Bettman.

Not necessarily since the later portion of the first round is usually where the seperation is created from the top and bottom since the lottery is usually easier to predict, at least in terms of who will be in the lottery (although the order can be tricky). Also, are you in? Not sure since you never really showed any indication if you wanted in or not.

Talk about stupidity. http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/253436_218002028231631_100000655076382_707674_3500986_n.jpg :lol:

Yeah, he did. This guy is awesome. EDIT: Now he is getting his cameraman to zoom in on the police's weapons while he gives a background on them. Legend.

"They should have brought in the damn army" and "I called the cops 30 minutes ago and they still haven't shown" Gee, I wonder why the cops haven't shown yet? Wow, they just showed some stab victim being loaded into an ambulance. This is absolutely [expletive]ed.

Are you watching the feed with Rob Brown? Guys has some huge balls to be walking around the streets reporting this right now. He interviewed some 19 year olds and their response was, and I quote, "This is [expletive]ed" And yeah, I don't know what the hell Vancouver was thinking when they authorized a viewing party. Do they not remember what happened in 94? What makes them think this year would be any different? Even if the Canucks won this game this garbage would still be going on.

Probably not a good idea to joke about something like this, but this is absolutely golden. Literally laughed out loud when I read that.

What a moron.

He was outside. He already mentioned it in this thread.

According to this feed http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110615/bc_stanley_cup_riot_110615/20110615/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome They are speculating/hearing that there have been at least 9 stabbings and "numerous fatalities". Absolutely ridiculous.

You mean this guy? http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/61/lmfaord.png On a more serious note, this is just brutal. I knew that this would happen and you knew that once it got dark in Vancouver that the real morons would come out and start to cause some serious damage, but this is just ridiculous. Don't know if this is true or not but there are rumors going around that there have already been 3 deaths and a Bruin fan was stabbed in the neck. Nothing has been confirmed, though. Some moron just ran straight at the Riot Squad and got his ass kicked. Watching the live feed on CTV's website is just nuts. Sadly, this is going to continue for the rest of the night for sure.

Whatever dude, I'm not getting into it with you, so I'll just concede right now.

I have no clue? Serious question, can you actually discuss something with somebody without resorting to childish insults? And yeah, I could understand chanting it when the guy first goes down, but after, I don't know, him lying on the ice for a minute without moving you would think that the people in the crowd would have enough common sense to think maybe this guy is actually injured? But no, they continue to chant shit at him and start up a "Lets go Bruins" chant while he is being helped off of the ice by his teammates. But yeah, I have no clue. Bruin fans are so oblivious that they would need to see a replay to know that Raymond wasn't faking it? Him lying motionless on the ice and needing to be helped off the ice by his teammates a few minutes later wasn't a big enough sign that he was actually hurt? I've got no problem with them chanting it at first, but continuing to do it was an absolute joke when it was clear the guy was seriously hurt. It was so damn obvious that he wasn't faking it.

So if the Canucks fanbase is absolute trash, what does that make the Bruins fans for chanting shit like Diver, Liar, Faker and heckling Luongo while Mason Raymond is sprawled on the ice severly injured? Then to top it all off, the chant lets go Bruins as Raymond is helped off of the ice.

Last year people wanted to PM their mocks to me so that is why I had that there. If you guys don't care, or want to post them prior to the start of the draft, then I'll make a thread right now and you can post them there whenever you are ready. I don't really care either way. And yeah, only 30 picks. The 2nd round is way too much of a crap shoot (as well as the last 5-10 picks in most first rounds) and I really don't want to go and tally up 60 picks from around 15-20 members, haha.

Anybody up for this again? It was pretty successful last season, so I thought I would bring it back this year and since there is 10 days before the draft and the NBA season came to a close last night with the Mavs winning the Finals, I figured now would be a good time to make this thread. For those of you that don't know what this is, or don't remember, here is how it works: Rules: 1. Each poster will create a mock draft of the first round only which they will private message to me. Each poster will have until the start of the draft to PM me their mocks. You can edit your mock and send a new one to me whenever, but once the draft begins all submissions are final. 2. Point system: For every correct pick you receive 3 points. For every player 1 pick off you receive 2 points. For every player 2 picks off you receive 1 point. If your mock has a player more than 2 slots away from his draft position you get 0 points for that player. (example below) 3. Each poster will need to private message me their mock instead of posting it in the thread to keep from others looking at your picks. I will post all of the mocks in a new thread just prior to the start of the draft and will total them after the draft finishes. 4. 5 bonus points will be rewarded if you are able to get the entire lottery correct. 5. In the event of a tie, the winner will be whoever gets the most picks exactly correct. Example of scoring system: Real draft 1. John Wall 2. Evan Turner 3. Derrick Favors 4. Wesley Johnson 5. DeMarcus Cousins 6. Ekpe Udoh 7. Greg Monroe 8. Al-Farouq Aminu 9. Gordon Hayword 10. Paul George Your mock draft 1. Washington - John Wall - 3 points 2. Philadelphia - Evan Turner - 3 points 3. New Jersey - Derrick Favors - 3 points 4. Minnesota - Wesley Johnson - 3 points 5. Sacramento - DeMarcus Cousins - 3 points 6. Golden State - Ekpe Udoh - 3 points 7. Detroit - Greg Monroe - 3 points 8. LA Clippers - Al-Farouq Aminu - 3 points 9. Utah - Ed Davis - 0 points 10. Indiana - Gordon Hayward - 2 points Final Score: 26 points If you have any ideas that you feel would make this better, feel free to mention them to me and I'll take them into consideration. If you are interested sign up here. Participants AboveLegit TheHutch Real Deal Dash Prodigy htownborn fish7718 Sun Tzu ?QuestionMark? Newman

Seriously, what do you expect to happen when the Heat lost after all the shit they talked this season about how it would be easy, they are going to win not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7 etc.... and the countless other crap? Of course people will talk shit about them considering they just lost in the Finals, especially to a team that has 2 of the most popular ringless veterans in the league in Dirk and Kidd. Honestly, the aftermath of the game is pretty civil if you ask me. I thought it was going to be a lot worse than it was, so I really have no idea what you are complaining about. This honestly isn't even worse than what Laker fans had to endure when they lost to Boston in 08.

They need to find a way to involve Bosh in the offense more than what they are doing. Having him literally doing nothing other than standing at the elbow waiting for LeBron or Wade to decide that they don't want to play Iso-ball is a complete waste of one of arguably the most talented power forward other than Dirk. Bosh has a consistent 22/10 on 50% shooting big man for the previous 5 years. If they are goiing to use him as a glorified spot up shooter, they are absolutely wasting his talents, and wasting cap space considering you can get somebody like David West for half the price or even somebody like Troy Murphy for a fraction of the price. Bosh is too good to be misused like this. Either involve him more in the offense or trade him because his role on this team is an absolute waste of talent and cap room. As for trading LeBron, the only player who I would consider moving him for would be Howard, but I'm probably not trading him until at least next offseason. There are definitely issues with whether or not him and Wade will ever be able to co-exist, but I don't think you can trade the best player in the game after one season. If the same issues plauge this team next season and it results in them falling short again, then you have to seriously consider it, but not before then. I did.

So are Dirk's, yet up until this season he was considered to be one of the biggest chokers of All-Time, and Dirk's playoff numbers are substantially better than McHale's. Dirk is one of like 5 players in NBA history to average 25/10 for his playoff career, so I really don't see that as an argument. McHale also had his two 60% shooting seasons alongside a prime Larry Bird and many other great players. One season after his 2nd 60% shooting year, Bird went down with injuries which forced McHale into a primary offensive role and his efficiency dropped by roughly 5% and his scoring stayed even at 22 a game. McHale's two 60% shooting seasons can also be easily countered, at least in my opinion, by Dirk's two 50/40/90 seasons (technically it is only one, but this year he went 52/39.3/89.2, so sue me). Don't get me wrong, McHale had a great career. I'm not trying to argue otherwise, he would probably be 6th on my list of power forwards but his career was not as great as Dirk's is now, and Dirk is only going to add more 50 win seasons, more All-Star appearances, more All-NBA Team selections and, who knows, maybe another Championship and Finals MVP or two.

He was better defensively than Dirk, that isn't debatable, but its not like McHale was a Duncan/Garnett type of defender either. You will have obviously seen more of McHale than I did as he announced his retirement in 93 and I was only born in 92, and I am sure you have watched more of his old games than I have, but from what I recall he was great defensively, but not the kind of player who you can argue to be the best defensive power forward ever, and I think you can definitely make the argument that Dirk is the best offensive power forward ever. McHale was more rounded when taking both ends of the floor into the equation, but being more well rounded doesn't make him a greater player than Dirk as far as I am concerned. I don't really care about how good McHale was in the low post considering Dirk is the best shooting big man to ever play the game and arguably the best shooter to ever play the game regardless of position. At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter how you got the job done, but more about if you got the job done and Dirk consistently has gotten the job done as a primary option for basically his entire career. McHale's fancy low post moves were entertaining to watch, but they are still worth the same as one of Dirk's ugly one-footed fades. It is worth noting that in 88-89 Bird missed basically the entire season and with McHale as the primary option the Celtics only managed to go 42-40 and were swept in the first round (although it was against the Pistons so you can definitely cut him some slack). Still though, that is a 15 game decrease despite the fact that the Celtics still had guys like Parrish, Reggie Lewis, Dennis Johnson and Danny Ainge (although he only played in 45 games himself). The next year Bird comes back and the Celtics win 52 games with pretty much the exact same team, minus Ainge. I don't know, maybe I am bias as Dirk is probably my favourite player in the league (tied with Nash and DeRozan, but DeRozan is really only there because he is a Raptor lol) and is my favourite player ever outside of prime Vince Carter, but I honestly don't think that there is a debate between the two. Dirk was more talented, a better leader, the primary option for his entire career and has a more decorated resume.

I agree with this. Why should a guy like Kevin McHale (who most people consider to be the 5th best PF in the game as far as I recall) be considered a greater player than Dirk just because he won 3 Championships as the 2nd best player on the team? I'd consider leading a team with no other All-Star players to a championship like Dirk did this year to be much greater than being the 2nd best player on 3 of championship teams, especially considering how great Larry Bird was. Quite simply, Dirk has had a much greater career than McHale had, and even if Dirk fell short this season and never won a championship, I would still think that Dirk should be above McHale on the All-Time list considering the fact that he is, to put it bluntly, a better player now than McHale ever was. It shouldn't take a championship to validate Dirk as a top 5 power forward to ever player the game. His career averages of 23/8.5/3 on 47.5/38/88 percentages (26/10.4/2.5 on 46.5/39/89 in the playoffs), his MVP award, his 10 straight All-Star games, his 11 All-NBA Teams (4 of them being First and 5 being Second) and leading his team to 11 straight 50 win seasons (and 3 of those were 60 wins including the 67 win season, good for 6th best in the history of the NBA) should be more than enough, especially when you consider he has never really played with anybody else who would be considered a superstar, and very few players who would even be considered All-Stars. Him adding an NBA Championship and Finals MVP to his resume is just the icing on the cake and, as far as I am concerned, he is without a doubt a top 5 power forward ever. To be honest, there really shouldn't be any debate about the top 5 power forwards ever. I'm not normally one to belittle peoples opinions, but as far as I am concerned you are wrong if you don't consider the top 5 power forwards ever to be: Tim Duncan Karl Malone Charles Barkley Kevin Garnett Dirk Nowitzki The order of the 5 is certainly debatable (although I think it is quite obvious that Duncan is number 1), but the players certainly aren't.

This post is absolutely ridiculous. You don't remember the last time LeBron came through in the clutch? Jeez, I don't know, pick a game in either the Boston series or Chicago series and you are likely to find one. The guy buried Boston in game 5 and sent them packing by scoring something like the final 10 points of the game. He drilled the dagger three against the Bulls and completely shut down Derrick Rose in every 4th quarter that he guarded him. The guy basically single handedly took over the final 5 minutes of every close game in both of those series. I know, I know, the Finals are the biggest stage of them all and he is playing poorly, but he is playing better than Wade did against the Bulls and yet nobody seems to want to bring up the fact that LeBron carried Wade on his back in that series, but love to point out that Wade is "carrying" LeBron in this one. I don't particularly care for his attitude just as much as the next guy, but he is an all-time great basketball talent, regardless of whether or not he has played below expectations in this series. As for the Mavs comment, I love the constant crap about them choking. Even if they lose this series, I fail to see how it would constitute as a Mavs choke job considering the Heat have the final 2 games at home and going by the old theory of taking care of homecourt, this series is technically right were it should. Its not like the games have been blowouts or anything as pretty much every one of them has come down to the wire with either team having the chance to win in the end. Unless the Mavs manage to blow a 20 point 4th quarter lead in both games or something, it is laughable to suggest that them losing this series would be considered a choke.