Built Ford Tough

And you know this for a fact? at calling us idiots because we share a difference of opinion. Real mature.

Was this game a playoff game? If it was Anthony Parker that took the last shot of the game and walked off the court right away this would be a non issue. All of you are only talking because it was LeBron James.

Are you kidding me? So now LeBron gets criticized for not shaking hands after a loss in the regular season too? Give me a break. The constant hate on this forum for everything LeBron James (and Kobe Bryant sometimes as well) is absolutely ridiculous. No matter what he does somebody is going to [expletive] about it.

I know you weren't. I was just simply stating my thoughts on bringing him off of the bench because it really isn't a ridiculous opinion and somebody who isn't familiar with Turkoglu could've thought it was a good idea.

Tyrus Thomas was not one of the Bulls best players. Derrick Rose, Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, Joakim Noah and maybe even Taj Gibson have all outplayed Thomas this season. Nobody would even think twice of Tyrus Thomas if he wasn't drafted so 4th overall. The guy is nothing more than an athlete who makes bonheaded decisions on the court. Who knows though, if anybody can get anything out of Thomas it would be somebody like Larry Brown. Maybe a change of scenary will help him. I like this trade for the Bulls though. They weren't resigning Thomas at the end of the season and managed to trade him for two expiring contracts, one of which may be able to have a future with the team depending on how he plays (Acie Law), although I wouldn't hold my breath. What I like most about this trade is the pick that they are going to get. Getting rid of Thomas for a first round pick that will most likely be in the 15-18 range is a pretty nice move. I've heard conflicting reports though. Is the pick this season or a future? I originally heard that it was a 2010 1st but in this article it says that it is a future. Does anybody know for sure? If it is a 2010 1st I really like the move just because this draft class is pretty deep (not sure about future draft classes).

Bringing him off of the bench wouldn't be any good because then he would be on the floor more with Calderon (who is much more effective off of the bench) than Jack, and from what I have seen so far this season Turkoglu and Calderon can't really co-exist on the floor together. They are both way too ball dominant. I'd rather just keep him in the starting lineup along with Jack because of that reason and also because the Raptors 2nd unit has actually played really well as of late. Calderon and Amir Johnson have developed some great chemistry together and Weems has played pretty well with Calderon as well. I think that bringing Turk off of the bench would do more harm than good because he would disrupt the chemistry and because I am 99% sure Turkoglu would complain about it to no end. He has complained about his touches numerous times this season so I would imagine that his ego wouldn't be too pleased with coming off of the bench. But yeah, you are right. The Raptors only real option is to simply hope that Turkoglu picks it up down the stretch and has a great playoffs. Maybe that would fool somebody into thinking that he would be worth making a move for. I doubt it, but I can hope.

Conditional draft pick is what I read on another forum. Lol, Charlotte is creating the Anti-Don Nelson team. Forward/Centers: Thomas, Nazr, Chandler, Diop, Ratliff, Brown, Diaw, Ajinca, Wallace, Graham Guards: Jackson, Henderson, Felton, Augustin Looks like the Bobcats are loading up on big men so that they have around 30 fouls to use on Dwight Howard if they should meet in the playoffs.

Brewer was losing minuts to Matthews and the Jazz didn't really seem too intent on bringing him back this offseason anyways. Might as well get something for him than just let him walk. I would imagine that there is more to this trade than meets the eye though. There must have been something going on with Brewer behind the scenes that we are unaware of. And lets be honest, the Jazz don't have the chance to compete for the West this season. There wouldn't stand a chance against the Lakers or the Nuggets in a playoff series. Best case scenario for them would be Western Conference Semi-Finals. Very nice trade for the Grizzlies though. They gave up a lottery protected pick for a good defensive guard who can chip in offensively a bit as well. The Grizzlies bench is terrible and Brewer will strengthen it a bit.

From everything that I have heard Bosh is only going to miss tomorrows game against New Jersey and will be in the lineup for Saturday's game against Washington. You never know though.

For the other team more than the Raptors. I know it may seem like I am overreacting or overexagerating, but I am seriously not. Turkoglu throws up bad jumpers at inopportune times (which he usually misses) that can either halt the Raptors momentum or give the other team a lift. He also doesn't average very many turnovers per game (one thing that has actually been nice about him) but down the stretch of games he has made some terrible decisions with the rock which have led to either a poor shot or a turnover, and it allows the opposing team to get back into the game. Take last nights game against Memphis for an example. The Raptors were cruising with a lineup of Calderon/Weems/Wright/Bosh/Bargnani. With about 3 minutes left in the game Antoine Wright was split open by a Rudy Gay elbow and was forced to come out of the game. Turkoglu came into the game and dominated the ball on offense while playing matador defense. The Raptors offense went stagnant and their defense was worse wtih Turkoglu on the floor. To be honest, I think that if Wright never had to leave the game late in the 4th the Raptors would've held onto the win. Turkoglu coming into the game had a negative impact for the Raptors. Yes he does those things, no agrument here. However, he hasn't been hitting anything lately which takes away some of the effectiveness of the spacing on the floor because teams aren't as worried about rotating over to him with how poorly he has been shooting. For the most part though, he does these things becuase of his reputation. Not when he is on the floor with Calderon because it seems like Hedo and Jose try to one up each other in terms of who can be more ball dominant. The offense is worse when Hedo and Calderon are on the floor together and more often than not, Calderon is the point guard who closes out games (unless Jack is playing really well). He has hit maybe one big shot the entire season (that OT game against Washington). I honestly don't even recall him hitting any other real big shots late in a game, or hitting a huge shot to cause a momentum swing. He loves to take the big shot, that is for damn sure, but he doesn't make the big shot very often. Hedo Turkoglu doesn't play defense and he sure as hell doesn't come up with any key defensive stops. Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani (sometimes) are the only Raptors that step up and deliever a key basket when the Raptors are in a slump. Usually it is Bosh getting inside or to the free throw line because when the Raptors get into slumps it is because they start jacking up jumpers non stop. Turkoglu doesn't do anything to rectify that. I can't really comment on this because nobody really knows what goes on in the locker room, during hudles/timeouts and what not, but from everything that I have heard, read, and seen on the court, Chris Bosh, Jarrett Jack and Antoine Wright seem to be the ones that bring the leadership to this team. After that Atlanta fiasco when they gave up 146 points or whatever it was, it was Jack and Wright that tied into the team and Chris Bosh is the most vocal player on the court from what I have seen. The thing is that the Raptors don't just have two new starting guards and a few bench players. This team is entirely different from last season. The only players on this team that were on the team opening day last season are Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon. Last season the Raptors had absolutely no depth on the roster. When Calderon got hurt the Raptors were playing Will Solomon and Roko Ukic extended minutes at point guard. Both Solomon and Ukic are out of the NBA less than a year later. That is pretty telling. They had literally no big men outside of Bosh and Bargnani (and O'Neal when he was here). Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Kris Humphries were the two best bigs off of the bench for Toronto. Jason Kapono played 23 minutes a game and he can't even crack the rotation on a 20 win Philly team that is pathetic at shooting the 3 ball. Joey Graham got 20 minutes a game for Toronto and Joey Graham is a borderline NBA player. Outside of Anthony Parker and Shawn Marion (for 27 games) the Raptors had absolutely nobody on the wings. The Raptors had absolutely no depth last season at all. They had very arguably the worst bench in the entire NBA to go along with the worst perimeter rotation in the entire NBA. Combine that with the fact that Calderon missed 14 games, O'Neal missed 14 games or so when he was with the team and Bosh missed 5 games and, well, yeah, the Raptors were completely [expletive]ed. This season the Raptors have replaced Kris Humphries with Amir Johnson, Jake Voskhul with Rasho Nesterovic, Joey Graham with Sonny Weems, Jason Kapono with Antoine Wright, Will Solomon (or Roko Ukic) with Jarrett Jack and Shawn Marion with Hedo Turkoglu. Which of these scenarios doesn't have an obvious upgrade? That would be Turkoglu. Lets also not forget that the Raptors added Marco Belinelli and DeMar DeRozan to the mix as well. While neither are anything special right now, they are still better options than the Raptors had last season. Oh yeah, Chris Bosh is playing the best basketball of his life this season and has probably been the best power forward in the NBA so far. Andrea Bargnani has went from a 15/5 on 45% shooting player to a 17/6 on 47% player while also improving his defense as well. To put it simply, this Raptors team is completely different than the one we saw last season. They are deeper and unarguably more talented. You can't compare this team with last years team because it is a completely different roster.

Mask.

I don't even think somebody would be willing to take Hedo Turkoglu on for free. The only realistic scenario would be something like Hedo Turkoglu for Elton Brand or something and even Philly wouldn't do that because at least Brand isn't a complete waste of space like Turkoglu is. I know I've said it before, but seriously, somebody needs to plant a gun in Turkoglu's locker and make up some BS story about how he tried to kill Antoine Wright for trying to take Turkoglu's throne as biggest waste of space on the Raptors. That is believeable, right?

Does anybody else find it absolutely hilarious, yet infuriating at the same time, that Hedo Turkoglu's play has steadily decaresed as the season has progressed? After the absolutely comical performance that he put on today, I went on Basketball Reference and checked out his monthly stats. They are: November: 14 ppg , 4.6 rpg , 4 apg , 2.2 topg pn 45.2 FG% and 42.4 3PT% December: 13.1 ppg , 4.4 rpg , 5.3 apg , 1.5 topg on 40 FG% and 39 3PT% January: 9.8 ppg , 4.6 rpg , 4 apg , 1.5 topg on 33.6 FG% and 33.3 3PT% Feburary: 8 ppg , 2 rpg , 3 apg , 3 topg on 31.5 FG% and 25 3PT% In 47 games this season Turkoglu has scored 20 points or above 4 times and 15 points or above 13 times. He has scored in single digits 15 times and has scored 5 points or less 5 times (2 of which he was held pointless and he has 2 other games where he scored 6 points only). Now I realize that he has only played in two games in Feburary, but there has been no indication that this trend will stop with the way that Turkoglu has played. Are we as Raptor fans still supposed to buy the whole "give Turkoglu time" bull[expletive] that we are still hearing from time to time? I mean maybe if Tukoglu actually showed something but even his best game of the season was hardly anything special (26/11/2). I seriously think that the Raptors opponents should chip in and pay part of Turkoglu's salary. I mean they are benefiting more from the Raptors playing Turkoglu than the Raptors are, so it would only be fair, right? /rant.

Yeah because it is only the Cavs that have ever done this.

Hedo Turkoglu's line tonight: 0-5 FG, 0-3 3PT, 0 points, 1 rebound, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, -29 And he is locked up for 50M+ over the next 5 years. Dear Hedo Turkoglu, MR. TURKOGLU, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE BRING A GUN TO THE LOCKER ROOM AND SHOT SOMEBODY (preferably Antoine Wright) SO THAT THE RAPTORS CAN GET OUT OF YOUR JOKE OF A CONTRACT. Sincerely, every Raptors fan on the planet.

Nice choke job by Toronto. Bosh gets hurt (still played but you can tell he was hurting) and nobody can do anything. As a result, the Raptors blow a 5 point lead in a matter of 20 seconds and do nothing but jack up jumpers on offense in overtime. Seeing Antoine Wright launch 3's like he was Ray Allen was so frusturating. Why can't the guy just play defense? Why does he think he is a dead-eye shooter? Memphis outplayed the Raptors during the final 5:30 of this game, but the Raptors have nobody but theirselves to blame for this loss. What the hell were they thinking switching that screen that Rudy Gay would set on Calderon? They swtiched it every single time and every single time Gay scored on Calderon (I think it was 4 possessions) including the game sealing basket. You would think that seeing Gay abuse Calderon the first 2 or 3 times they would've made an adjustment. Disapointing loss considering the Raptors basically had the game in hand during the final 30 seconds of regulation. Oh well. It sucks to see Bosh's dominant 4th quarter go to waste though.

I thought that there was no way the Wizards would trade Jamison to the Cavs because of their "rivalry"? I actually don't mind the trade for the Wizards. Despite the fact that I don't like Thornton, he has had some good games in his career and still has some potential to him. After moving Butler the Wizards now have the perfect opening for Thornton to go out and show what he can do. If he sucks, big whoop, the Wiz will just let him walk at the end of the season. However, if he manages to play well and impress the Wizards they can resign him for relatively cheap in the summer (I don't think that Thornton's phone will be ringing off of the hook with offers). Then there is the obvious fact that the Wizards clear Jamison's large salary off of the books and manage to get under the luxury tax. The only thing that is left for them to do this season is lose as many games as possible and hope that you are able to move up in the lottery to land somebody like John Wall or Evan Turner. I imagine that Big Z is just going to get bought out and return to the Cavs in time for the playoffs. This really isn't a bad haul for the Wizards considering that I imagine there were only a couple of teams that would be willing to take on Jamison's long term contract. It obviously isn't great, but it is officailly the start of the Wizards rebuild if you ask me. It won't yield immediate benefits, but it could easily pay off in the long term. Clippers don't really get much out of the deal. I know that Thornton doesn't have much value at all but I would've assumed he could've gotten more than Drew Gooden. On second though, nevermind, I thought that Telfair had a team option on his contract for next season, not a player option. This was more of a move to dump Telfair than anything else by the looks of it. Thornton didn't fit in their plans and was going to be gone regardless, so whatever. Finally, love this move for the Cavs. As far as I was concerned, Jamison was the ideal scenario for the Cavs. His ability to stretch the defense is going to be a perfect fit alongside LeBron James and Shaquille O'Neal. It will only give the two of them more room to operate not only because of his ability to hit the outside shot, but also because of his all around offensive ability. Teams aren't going to want to double off of Jamison which means that a shooter like Parker, West, Williams or Gibson are going to seen an increase in the amount of open looks that they receive. This will help take some of the pressure off of LeBron as well because he know has a player who can create his own offense. I don't even think that Jamison's lack of defense will be much of an issue either because the Cavs are a good enough defensive team to hide him. Even if it does become an issue, they can always just increase the minutes of Varejao whenever Jamison gets exploited defensively. Like I said above, I imagine that Big Z will be bought out and return to Cleveland so they essentially gave up nothing more than a 1st round pick (will be pick 29 or 30 most likely) for Jamison. Love the move for the Cavs, hate it as a fan of an Eastern Conference team.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64735/20100216/bosh_doesnt_want_raptors_to_make_trade/ Unless by some miracle the Raptors would be able to acquire Iguodala from the Sixers without having to take on Dalembert or Brand (only legitimate way to make salaries work, although there is no realistic possiblity of this happening), I don't really know if I care whether or not the Raptors make a trade now that Butler has been dealt to Dallas. I wouldn't be upset one way or the other I think. The Raptors bench has been much improved during the course of this hot streak that the Raptors are currently on and the biggest reason for that is the play of Jose Calderon. As most of you know, I was very hard on Calderon at the beginning of the season, and basically have been hard on him ever since TJ Ford was traded, because I simply don't like him as a starting point guard on this team. If he is on a team where he defensive ineptitude is nulified by good defenders around him, such as the Cavs, I think that he would be a very good starting point guard (assuming he can stay healthy). However, with the Raptors, he simply doesn't fit in the starting lineup, but much like two/three seasons ago when he was sharing time with TJ Ford, Calderon has been very good off of the bench and has made the second unit play much better. This is a huge reason for the Raptors success over the past 2 months or so, in my opinion. I also really don't trust Marcus Banks as a backup point guard. Sure he has looked competant during 8 minute stretches every 2 weeks or so, but I still don't have any faith in him as a long term backup point guard.

I really don't remember too many people thinking that the Heat would drop off considerably. I remember reading that they would be a very similar team to what they were last season, with the possibility of being better as depending on how Michael Beasley developed over the offseason and how O'Neal would adjust to a full training camp with the team. The Raptors were predicted to be on basically the exact same tier as the Heat. Source (not the best source, but it was one of the first to come up on a quick google search) ESPN Preseason Power Rankings Associated Content Sports Illustrated Even if we look at the prediction thread that we had on OTR during the summer, 11 out of the 16 people that posted predictions had the Heat ahead of the Raptors while only 5 people had the Raptors ahead of the Heat. Only 1 of the 11 posters that predicted the Heat would be ahead of the Raptors were Heat fans while 3 of the 5 posters that predicted the Raptors would be ahead of the Heat were Raptor fans. 3 People predicted that the Raptors wouldn't even make the playoffs. In case you are interseted, here is the thread. http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/5793-09-10-conference-standings/page__st__20 Just as many people predicted the Heat to be better than the Raptors, if not more, so I just don't see it. You are right that the Raptors have Hedo and Calderon if they lost Bosh and Bargnani, but its not like that is saying much. Hedo has scored 12 ppg on 40% shooting this season and without the threat of a big man like Bosh or Bargnani, Calderon isn't nearly as effective considering he gets the majority of his offense off of screen and role scenarios. I just don't understand how you have the Heat with a B+ grade despite the fact that they are tied for the 8th seed and are 1 game away from missing the playoffs, yet the Raptors get a B- although they are looking to be the favourites for the 5th seed. Yeah, the Raptors have more talent on the team, but its not like it is a huge discrepancy and even then, they were basically predicted to finish right around the same spot in the standings before the season anyways. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because its not like anything I can say will change your opinion on the ranking and I sure as hell won't be chaning my opinion that the Raptors shouldn't have a lower grade than the Heat. Same thing on the other teams as well. There is nothing that the 4th worst team in the NBA could do that would make me give them an A ranking because of the fact that they are the 4th worst team in the league. I don't care if they are young or what, that is something that I couldn't overlook if it were my rankings. Again, nice read. I just simply can't agree with some of the logic and rational that you used on these rankings.

I don't really understand the Raptors having a lower grade than the Heat. Yeah, the Raptors have more talent than the Heat but its not like they were predicted to be that much better than the Heat before the season started, if they were even expected to be better at all. The Raptors were mentioned as a potential 5-9 seed during the summer, which is pretty much what the Heat were expected to be as well, yet you think that the Raptors, who hold a 3.5 game lead over the Heat, deserve nearly a full grade lower than the Heat? I don't get the rational behind that at all. The Lakers having a C+ is pretty strange as well for basically the reasons that Real Deal pointed out. They may not have been as dominating as some people predicted them to be and run away with the league, but they are right up there with the Cavs as the best in the league and somehow they only get a C+? I'm not saying that they should get an A+ or maybe even an A, but a C+ is unfairly harsh is you ask me. I know that teams like Sacramento weren't predicted to be very good this season and their young stars have looked very good this season, but I just don't understand how a team with the 4th worst record in the league is deserving of an A rating. This was a good read, and you can tell that you put work into it, which I appreciate, but some of the ratings just make little to no sense to me.

Forgot to mention this in my earlier post, but I thought David Lee played pretty poorly as well, along with Wallace. He looked like he didn't really belong out there and managed to have 3 turnovers (East team high I believe) in only 12 minutes. Here are the grades that two ESPN writers gave tonights participants. East Chris Bosh: A- Kevin Garnett: C Al Horford: B+ Dwight Howard: A- LeBron James: A- Joe Johnson: B David Lee: C- Paul Pierce: B Rajon Rondo: B Derrick Rose: B+ Gerald Wallace: C- Dwyane Wade: A+ http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2010/news/story?page=scorecard2010/east-all-stars West Carmelo Anthony: B- Chauncey Billups: A- Tim Duncan: F Kevin Durant: B Pau Gasol: B+ Chris Kaman: D Jason Kidd: F Steve Nash: A- Dirk Nowitzki: B Zach Randolph: C Amare Stoudemire: B- Deron Williams: B http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2010/news/story?page=scorecard2010/west-all-stars Thoughts on these grades?

I wouldn't really say that. Yeah, none of them stole the show or anything but Kevin Durant had a pretty good All-Star debut with 15 points and 5 boards on 50% in 20 minutes. Take away that terrible foul on Wade and the turnover prior to that and Deron Williams played pretty well as well. He put up 14 points, 3 boards, 6 assists and 4 steals on 6-11 shooting. He was pretty instrumental in the West's comeback as well. I thought that Williams was actually one of the West's better players in the 2nd half of the game. Really though, aside from Gerald Wallace, who looked like he didn't even want to be there, I think that all of the first time All-Stars played pretty well. None of them stole the show or anything, but they didn't look like a deer in the headlights that we have seen from previous first year All-Star's.

The Big 4 of the 2003 Draft stole the show tonight. LeBron James - 25 points , 6 assists , 5 rebounds , 4 steals , 10-22 FG Dwyane Wade - 28 points , 11 assists , 6 rebounds , 5 steals , 12-16 FG Chris Bosh - 23 points , 1 assist , 10 rebounds , 2 steals , 9-16 FG Carmelo Anthony - 27 points , 2 assists , 10 rebounds , 13-22 FG That is a combined 103 points , 20 assists , 31 rebounds , 11 steals , 44-76 FG.

Well, in her defense, it was either that or she sings the original lyrics of "Welcome to New York" while they are playing the All-Star game in Dallas. Doesn't really fit all that well. at her changing from New York to All-Star half way through though. EDIT: Thank you All-Star? Did she forget what city she was in or something? What an awful halftime performance. EDIT #2: Lmao at Barkley's "Made me miss The Who". Guy has been the only thing that has made this weekend remotely entertaining.

Only if you were... ^_^