Built Ford Tough

The 5 year 53 million for Turkoglu or the considered 5 year 39 mill offer for Ariza?

I think that his agent was wanting a 5 yr/$50M deal but I am not 100% sure. The Raptors offered him something like 8.5 or 9 million over 4 years but he rejected it so that 10M per does sound about right.

I have heard the same thing, but I have also heard that the Raptors didn't give up their rights to their MLE as well so I really don't know what to think. The reason why I was so clearly against the signing in my first couple of posts about it was because I was under the impression that the Raptors did not have the MLE to use after the signing, but then you and a couple of other posters at a couple of different forums have said that we do have the MLE to use. The same amount of people have said that the Raptors don't have the MLE to use either. I didn't think that we had the MLE to use but so many people have insisted that we did.

Its the right decision. Presti has done a fantastic job building that team and gaining assets. Just because you have cap space doesn't mean that you should just go ahead and throw it out there. The Thunder are better off not overpaying for players like Paul Millsap and David Lee. Let your young players develop for another season and then re-evaluate your roster at the end of the year and decide what you need to do to take the team to the next level. They are better off just saving the cap room for next season and getting a guy that will truly make an impact than overpaying for guys like Lee or Millsap this offseason because they would not be worth the money that it would take to draw them away from their current teams if you ask me.

I like the Humphries for a draft pick if it were to happen. Not because the draft pick would be great or anything like that, but because it would free up about 3 million dollars (or is it 3.5? Whatever) and that could definitely help the Raptors out and give them some more wiggle room to shore up their roster and strengthen their bench. If Colangelo is able to somehow add some depth to the Raptors and give them at least a serviceable bench, I will not be against the Turkoglu signing as much and won't have such a negative outlook on the team lol. I am not against signing Turkoglu because I like his game, but eliminating any and all depth the Raptors had in the process is what makes me hate the signing. If Colangelo is albe to give the Raptors a bench that won't be a complete disaster and can be relied on at times, I will warm up to the Turkoglu signing immensely. I have said it before and I'll say it again, Colangelo is hyped up to be this great general manager, well it is make or break for him right now if you ask me. He absolutely needs to develop a bench and put together some depth for the Raptors because as of right now the Raptors are a 4 man team (5 if DeRozan is able to step in and contribute immediately which is anything but a sure thing).

If they are able to stay healthy (the biggest concern with the Wizards), play consistent enough defense (don't have to be great, just being able to get stops when they need it) and develop chemistry (talent doesn't mean much if the talent doesn't mesh well) then I would consider them to be the 4th best team in the East. It is pretty clear that the Wizards have one of the most offensively gifted lineups in the Eastern Conference, maybe even the entire NBA, but if they aren't able to stay healthy or get stops when they need them, they aren't going to be as good as they are capable of being. I definitely think that they are a lock for the playoffs and I would consider them to be the 4th best team in the East, but they can definitely slide down the standings. They are going to be a very entertaining team to watch though, that is for sure.

Do you really think that a first round exit (best case scenario for the Raptors if you ask me) will be enough to convince Bosh to stay? Like I have said on numerous occasions, all this signing does is make the Raptors a lower seed playoff team and they will be destroyed by one of Boston, Orlando and Cleveland in the first round. If the Raptors signing Turkoglu would've put them over the top and made them actually competitive in the Eastern Conference then I would be all for overpaying for Turk but seeing how all this move does is give the Raptors another first round exit, I just don't understand why you completely gut the team. The only hope that I have left now is that Colangelo can somehow manage to work a magical sign and trade with the Magic so that the Raptors will actually be able to get some depth on the team but right now it is not looking good. Who knows though, maybe this Raptor team will be able to surprise me and make some noise in the playoffs next season, but honestly, you can't blame Raptor fans for being against this signing.

Lol, check out how stacked the Raptors bench is: Roko Ukic Marcus Banks Kris Humphries Reggie Evans Quincy Douby Nathan Jawai Patrick O'Bryant Pops Menash-Bonsu (if he is resigned) Has there ever been a bench as bad as this? That bench is just a flat out joke.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/Raptors_summerleague_070209.html Sorry if this was already made, I forgot to check before making the thread.

I know exacatly what Turkoglu brings to the table for the Raptors and I don't not like Hedo Turkoglu the player. He is a good player that brings a lot to the table but the Raptors are gutting their team in order to get him and I don't think that he is worth it. If the Raptors were a piece or two away from being a threat in the Eastern Conference I would absolutely love this deal but the fact of the matter is that they simply are not. They are a long ways away from being a dangerous team. PS: The Raptors offense didn't really need to become more dangerous for them to win ball games. They could definitely improve on the offensive end of the floor but I think with a healthy Jose Calderon, an improving and confident Andrea Bargnani and Chris Bosh on the team gives you enough offensive punch (assuming that they would've resigned Delfino and brought over another free agent or two). It is defense that is the Raptors achillies heel and this signing does nothing to adress that. The Raptors starting lineup is probably going to be the worst defensive lineup in the entire league. Outside of DeRozan (assuming that he starts) the Raptors have nobody that can make an impact on the defensive end, and to be perfectly honest, I don't think that DeRozan will make much of a difference for the first season either. I don't think that DeRozan will be able to step into the league and instantly be able to compete at the NBA level. I posted this the day of the draft about DeRozan and how I expect his first NBA season to go. I think that he will show glimpses of being a good/great player but he will also have plenty moments that show that he is struggling to adapt to the NBA game. For the first half of the season I don't think that he is going to make that big of an impact and he will have to adjust to the strength and speed of the game. The fact that he needs to develop his handles more in order to actually be able to create his own shot will make it an adjustment for him. He also needs to be able to add some range to his jumper to force defenses to get up tight on him which will help him utilize his explosiveness and athletic ability. I can see DeRozan's first NBA season going very similar to his past season at USC. The first 3 quarters of the season will see him show glimpses of greatness but also look lost at times. He is going to be very up and down and inconsistent. Then the last quarter of the season I think that he will put it all together and start to show signs of consistency, just like how he elevated his game to the next level during the last month of the season, during the Pac-10 playoffs and during the NCAA Tournament. Who knows though, he could surprise me and break out. The Raptors starting lineup looks great on paper, but what the hell are they going to do about their bench and how do they plan on stopping opposing teams from scoring the rock? It doesn't matter how dangerous the Raptors are going to be offensively because teams will look like the second coming when they play against the Raptors. They are also going to have absolutely no depth at all on the roster and if they want to do anything they are going to have to play their starters 40 minutes a night. Even if they do manage to get 40 wins, is that even enough to do anything in the ever improving Eastern Conference? If the Raptors win 40 games they are rewarded with a bottom 3 playoff seed most likely, and they are sent to the slaughter house in the playoffs against either Boston, Cleveland or Orlando. Awsome!!! In case you don't want to read all of this, I will put the reasons why I am against the signing in short form: - Turkoglu is not getting any better and by the time his 5 year contract is up he will be on the tail end of his career making around $11M. - In order for the Raptors to sign Turk, they have to completely gut their roster and they will have no depth at all. It will be a good starting lineup for the Raps, but they will have NOBODY off of the bench. - The Raptors are a lower seed playoff team and are going to get abused by the top 3 teams in the East. They will be stuck in a period of mediocrity that has them not being good enough to make any noise in the playoffs, but not bad enough to get any sort of difference maker in the draft. It will be first round exits and mid/late teen draft picks. Whatever though, I may just be overreacting but I am sick and tired of Colangelo and his stop gap solutions. This team has yet to go through a proper rebuilding phrase since Vince Carter was traded and I would much rather see 3 seasons of terrible basketball if it means that the Raptors will actually become relevant. All of these quick fixes that the Colangelo has tried since he has come to the Raptors have done absolutely nothing and I am sick and tired of watching a team that is not good enough to do anything in the playoffs, but one that is too good to get any sort of high impact player via the draft.

Ugh, why Colangelo why? Please tell me that this is just another rumour and come next week Hedo signs with the Blazers. What is the point in over paying for Turkoglu? I could see if the Raptors were a piece or two away from being relevant, but the Raptors aren't making the playoffs regardless of whether or not they sign Turk. Even if they do miraculously make the playoffs, they are going to be embarassed in the first round by one of Orlando, Cleveland or Boston. If the Raptors sign Turk, what do they plan on doing, sending out a roster of Calderon/DeRozan/Turkoglu/Bosh/Bargnani and a bunch of D-League caliber players? This better be just speculation and not hold any truth.

Just a completely hypothetical situation here, but would you be okay with trading Bosh to another team for something like a combonation of young talent, depth, picks, expirings etc... (I'm not saying all of these things would be coming to the Raptors, jsut a combo of some of them) and as a result of trading Bosh for no immediate impact player, the Toronto Raptors end up being a terrible team and getting the 1st pick in the draft? Basically, what I am asking is, would you be happy if the Raptors trade Bosh for some assets next season, or even during the summer, and end up getting the 1st pick in the draft? Or would you rather not trade Bosh, make a run for the playoffs and hope that he doesn't decide to pack up and leave?

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Av8EcCK3yr5E1Lh4YdF34HXqbwM6?slug=aw-freeagentbuzz070109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns While it is an interesting rumor and I would love to see Anthony Parker playing on a contender, what do the Cavs even have to offer the Raptors? Nothing on their roster really jumps out at me as something that the Raptors could use. I guess Delonte West would be a decent fit on the Raptors, but would the Cavs be willing to give up West for Parker? West played a pretty pivitol role on the Cavs last season.

I guess there is no harm in at least trying out. Here are the two most recent things that I have wrote. They are posted under NBAD's Bleacher Report account, but I was the one that wrote both of them. Piece One Piece Two

Lakers Spurs Nuggets I think that it will be one more season before the Blazers move up into the elite company of the Western Conference. They can obviously prove me wrong and develop quicker than I anticipate (I figured that they would fight for a playoff spot this season, not easily make it) but I give them one more season before they move up into the top 3 teams in the West.

How could you forget about the beast that is Quincy Douby? As for Bluedevil saying that Bargnani is a horrible player, you are wrong. He is not a good or great player by any means but he is no worse than the average NBA player. He had a solid rookie season, a dreadful sophomore season and started slow last season but once he was named the full time starting center for the Raptors he actually played pretty well. As a starter his averages were: 17.7 ppg/6 rpg/1.3 bpg on 45.7 FG% and 42.1 3PT% Also, after the All Star game he averaged: 19.3 ppg/5.4 rpg/1.7 bpg on 49.2 FG% and 45.7 3PT% Now before you say that those stats are inflated and it is easy to put up good stats when the games are meaningless (which they were for the Raptors) I agree with you about those things and I do think that these numbers a slightly inflated. Regardless though, Andrea Bargnani was the second highest scoring center in the league after the All Star break which is worth mentioning. He is a terrible rebounder, a poor help defender and an average man to man defender and all of these areas of his game need improvement, he is a very skilled offensive player. He is not a horrible player by any means at all and it is simply incorrect and wrong to say that Bargnani is a horrible player. He is an above average to good offensive player and a below average player on the defensive end of the floor. Again, I am not saying that he is a good player or anything and I am defniitely not a fan of Bargnani's, but he is an average player (unless he goes back to his pathetic sophomore season performance than I would agree with you that he is a horrible player lol).

I can vouch for ATDI. As somebody that has posted on the same forums as him for about 3 or so years now, I can definitely say that he has the potential to be a very good writer and would be worth taking a chance on. I would sign up, but I don't know how often I would actually get motivated to sitting down and writing something so I'll just post my written pieces on here at random whenever I do decide to write something. It is better this way so that I don't feel obligated to writing something and potentially letting you guys down by not pulling my weight.

Lol, all Toronto does is trade Bosh for a player that puts them in the exact same situation as they would've been in if they kept Bosh. They are still a fringe playoff team at best and instead of losing Bosh at the end of the season, the Raptors lose Amare at the end of the year. Toronto gains absolutely nothing by doing this deal and I cannot even fathom why the hell the Raptors even consider it. Not only are they put in the exact same situation as they are currently in with Bosh, they are single handedly giving the Orlando Magic the most stacked roster of the decade and the best roster since the Jordan led Bulls. I call BS on this. It just doesn't make any sense if you ask me.

I see absolutely no reason for the Raptors to do that trade. They would be in the exact same situation as they are in now. A fringe playoff team at best with their best player going to leave the team after the year finishes. What is the point in this for Toronto? I call BS on this.

The Raptors won't have a MLE this offseason because they are under the salary cap. Unless you are able to resign all of your own free agents, thus putting yourself over the cap (i.e. the Raptors use all of their cap room on resigning Delfino, Marion and Parker), and you are still given the exceptions to work with. I could be wrong about this but I thought that if you are under the salary cap you aren't able to use the exceptions and they only work if you are over the cap? If you could clarify the second sentance for me, that would be great. As for Kleiza being a 6th man type, no he wouldn't. He is a 8th man off of the bench at best for a team if you ask me. Then again, the Raptors are a team that lacks any depth at all so now that I think about it, there would be a good chance if Kleiza is signed that he would be the 6th man for the Raptors lol. Who are these difference maker type of players that you expect the Raptors to be able to sign? Hedo Turkoglu's asking price is ridiculously high and I wouldn't touch him if I were the Raptors at anything more than $8M/3yr. Shawn Marion is not a difference maker as he is just a role player (although a very good one). Lamar Odom is an option, but do you really consider him to be a difference maker or another Marion type of player? Marvin Williams, a player that I am very high and love his game, could be worth the risk as he is young and is overshadowed in Atlanta with guys like Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and the like there, but in order to pry him away from the Hawks the Raptors would have to drastically over pay for him because I can't see the Hawks letting him go lightly. The Raptors biggest position of need is on the wings, but realistically, are there even any difference makers that are the right fit for the Raptors on the market? Unless I am forgetting a major player, I can't think of one.

I'm fine with Kleiza for about $2-2.5M a season, but anything more than that and I would just tell him to hit the road. All he really does is provide the Raptors with shooting and he is actually a fairly streaky shooter himself. He gives a bit of toughness and an edge to the team as well but he isn't a good defender or anything like that so I wouldn't pay him all that much. If he wants a bigger contract than $2.5M/season I would just look elsewhere because I am sure that you can manage to find a guy that will be able to bring basically the exact same things that Kleiza brings for around that amount.

I definitely agree with you on this and I give him huge props for being able to unload Kapono for anything (I loathed the signing from day one). Now that I read my previous post it does seem like I am saying that I think Colangelo is a terrible general manger but that isn't the case. I do think that he is a pretty good gm (although not as good as a lot of people make him out to be). I just don't necessarily agree with the way that he builds teams. I have always been a firm believer that you have to build from the inside out and have a tough, physical defense and have the offense come next. I have never been a fan of building a jump shooting, soft, offensive oriented team with a limited focus on the defensive end of the floor. He has taken some nice steps this offseason and I acknowledge that. I didn't see the post about how Toronto had pulled out from the Turkoglu sweepstakes as I was writing my previous post at the same time as you posted that and reading about him potentially throwing that much money at Turkoglu basically made me lose all of the faith in Colangelo that I had in him lol.

That is becase the Raptors, for the most part, have been a below average to bad franchise. They had that brief stint of being an upper echelon team in the East during Vince Carter's best years as a Raptor, but other than that the Raptors have, for the most part, been irrelevant when it comes to the East. If the Raptors were a good team then players will come here. They have historically been a poor team so that doesn't help when trying to draw big name free agents to come here. Yeah playing in Canada may have something to do with it, in fact it does have something to do with it, but if the Raptors were a top team in the league nobody would give a crap about coming to Toronto if it means that they have a chance to do something special (unless they are really stubborn people that are anti-Canadian in every sense of the word lol).

Do you still honestly have that much faith in Colangelo? The guy hasn't really done anything since coming to Toronto. Yeah, the Raptors made the playoffs two seasons, but that is more due to the fact that the Eastern Conference was ridiculously weak during those two seasons, especailly their division winning season. In fact, I would go as far as to say that the Raptors making the playoffs those two seasons was actually a detriment to the team. I think that it gave the players, management and fans a false hope in thinking that the Raptors were actually a better team than they really are and rather than rebuilding the team slowly and properly, many people believed that the Raptors were only a piece or two away from being contenders in the East (myself included) when in reality, that was not the case at all. Instead of rebuilding this thing entirely Colangelo went with a bunch of stop gap situations (guys like Jorge Garbajosa, Anthony Parker, JO trade and things like that) but all that really did was set the franchise back. Colangelo's name has a huge attraction to it, but honestly, I have been less than impressed with him as a GM and especially his time in Toronto. I don't have much faith in the guy at all. As for the signing itself, good god I hope it doesn't happen. It would be an absolutely terrible deal for the Raptors. They will improve, but they still won't be a playoff team and instead of getting a top 7 or so pick in next years draft, they will probably just miss out of the playoffs and end up with a pick in the 12-14 range. Bosh will still most likely walk next season because this teams future is really a damn mess, and especially if they don't add another high cailber rookie next season. To put it simply, if Colangelo offers Turkoglu this deal, he can follow Bosh right out of the door in 2010 as far as I am concerned. This would be the final straw for me. PS: You say that Colangelo is too smart to do this, but don't you realize that Colangelo is the one that would be offering the contract to Turkoglu? Even if he doesn't offer the deal to Hedo, he is obviously at least considering it.

The Raptors are the only team that I would consider to be a favourite. No matter what players are on the team, I will always follow the Raptors and be a fan of theirs. There are other franchises that I respect a lot like the San Antonio Spurs and Portland Trailblazers for the way that they are ran but I wouldn't say that I am a fan of theirs. Then there are teams like the Thunder (it still doesn't feel right not calling them the Sonics) that I like to watch because of the youth and excitment that they have, but again, I wouldn't consider myself to be a fan of theirs. So yeah, the only team that I would call a favourite team is the Toronto Raptors. I am an NBA fan first and foremost though. I will watch any team really.