Nitro

I looked on NBA.com and I don't think he even played a minute in SL. I'd like to see him get another shot as he really wasn't a bad NBA player. But without athleticism, his game left much to be desired. I'm curious to see if he's developed his game enough to warrant another oppertunity.

I never said that you said Artest was a better player. But you did say he was a better defender, and then in your arguement seem to think the comparison is close. He's not a better defender, and the comparison isn't close at all. As for the league being watered down, it doesn't matter much because the level of dominance is so enormous. The '96 Bulls destroy this Lakers team in EVERY statistical category. Point differential, rebounds, assists, forced TO's, FG %, 3pt %, PPG, allowed PPG, etc.... If the Oklahoma City Thunder were within 1 tip-in from taking the Lakers to 7, and a very old Boston Celtics were within 4th quarter collapse of beating the Lakers, do you REALLY think the 2010 Lakers are better than the greatest single-season team in NBA history?

A few major issues I have... -Yes, Fisher and Harper's numbers were close in the years you specified, but Harper was a MUCH better player. He was bigger, more versatile and created matchup problems. Not to mention you completely ignored FG % and only look at 3pt %. Harper shot 9% better overall from the field than Fisher, and that is a much bigger difference than Fisher's edge in 3pt shooting. Also, Harper took a greatly reduced role with the Bulls. He was a 20/6/5 player the year before he joined Chicago. To give you an idea, the Hawks gave Joe Johnson the biggest contract out of any FA this summer for virtually the same production. Harper was a much better player than Fisher. -How in the world is Artest a better defender than Pippen? Pippen was arguably the best perimeter defender in NBA history. When Artest was in his prime you might have some ground to say that, but he's not the same defensive player he once was. Even though awards are overrated, in 1996 Pippen was in the middle of a string of 7 straight All-Defensive First Team selections. Meanwhile Artest has made only one All-Defensive team in the last 4 seasons (and that was only a 2nd Team selection). Artest is also NOWHERE NEAR the offensive player Pippen was. Pippen is what made the offensive attack so versatile and dangerous. Artest doesn't make anywhere near the impact Pippen did, and so the advantage for the Bulls in this matchup is enormous. -I would say Rodman/Gasol is a push. You are severely underrating Rodman's defense just because he didnt block shot. He was arguably the greatest defender and rebounder in NBA history. Even though he was undersized, he would have given Gasol fits with his speed, toughness, hands and IQ. Not to mention he dominated the glass more than any player currently in the league ever has, including Dwight Howard. That alone would help take away one of LA's biggest strength. -I would have given the Bulls bench the edge. Much more consistent and the 3pt shooting was lethal (Kukoc over 40% from 3, Kerr at over 51%). You never knew what ANY of the Lakers bench players would give the team on a nightly basis. With the Bulls, there was stability. Look, I understand the Lakers have talent, but we are comparing them to a team that was #1 in offense and #1 in defense the same year. We're talking the most dominant single-season team in NBA history. Some stats from the Bulls' 1996 season... -The Bulls outscored teams by THRITEEN(!) points per game. -The Bulls outrebounded teams by over SIX boards per game. -The Bulls averaged FIVE more assists than opponents. -The Bulls forced 3 more turnovers than they gave up. -The Bulls shot 48% from the floor and 40% from 3. -Three of the five starters were selected to the All-Defensive First Team in 1996. -Against Shaq's Magic, Zo's Heat and Ewing's Knicks in the playoffs, the Bulls lost one combined game. It goes on and on and on...

No, it's Wade's fault for saying something so controversial that would obviously cause a negative public reaction. That is the fundemental part of this arguement that you're simply not getting/refuse to acknowledge.

Again, though, who is stopping Wade from expressing his opinion? Reacting to what he said negatively doesn't mean people are trampling on his right to free speach. But to expect everyone to be ok with it because it's his opinion is not the way the world works. And yes, he released an apology to protect his image; the image of a role model that were try to have our children emulate. If there wasn't something morally wrong with what he said, he wouldn't have made an apology.

I disagree, considering they would have to give up a decent amount of talent to get CP3, I highly doubt they would be as good as the Suns were last season. What Paul would do for NY, though, is give them two young stars to build a team around for the future.

Yeah, because LeBron didn't throw in 19 rebounds and 10 assists in Game 6 against Boston, right? And Wade didn't grab double digit boards twice in the 2006 Finals, right? Terrible, terrible article.

They still have 2-3 spots to fill so I guess it wouldn't be a bad signing. But he's not a great defender and has shot over 41% only twice in the last 10 seasons. Not to mention he's played over 60 games just once in the last 7 seasons. But since they already have Wade/James/Miller/Jones at the wing positions, Stackhouse's contributions wouldn't have to go beyond cheerleading anyway.

You guys know he'll be healthy well before the pre-season, right? The only thing this affects is his availability to play in the World Championships, which according to Yahoo he's going to have to sit out of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_eGS1DqHK8 Speaking of T-Mac, anyone remember this game? It was on Christmas 2003, LeBron and T-Mac went head-to-head in my favorite X-Mas day game ever. LeBron went for like 35 and T-Mac went for 40. Makes me sick to watch T-Mac when he was still in his prime, but very fond memories.

I remember this game, came right after the Magic-Knicks game where Bill Walton said T-Mac had a chance at being the GOAT (oh the memories indeed... ). Fun to watch. I actually saw him in person as a rookie against the Nets, the atmosphere was buzzing. I'm still astonished he lived up to expectations as they were so enormous when he was still a senior in HS.

Ok now I'm back home so I'll throw in my 2 cents... It is a very, very difficult comparison. The stats are extremely close when you look at how they impacted both their counterparts as well as their own team (ie- making their teams better with their defense). From +/- stats to defensive ratings to whatever else, there's not a huge seperation. So, I will just go by x's and o's, and reluctantly take Garnett. It is such a difficult comparison because they are two completely different defensive players; Howard is a shot-blocking intimidator who can alter almost every shot that is within 5ft of the basket and force a team to gameplan around that. Garnett's defensive game involves using his amazing athleticism, reaction and determination to cut-off driving lanes, disrupt pick-and-rolls and at times completely shut-down whoever he is defending. I think KG was the better defensive player for 4 primary reasons- 1) Garnett is a much, much better defender in man-to-man situations. Despite Howard's size and jumping ability, he isn't the greatest man-to-man defender. He doesn't understand how to use footwork to his advantage, doesnt know how to really get under a player's skin and throw him out of his comfort zone, and can be too quick to jump on a contest and pick up the foul. Garnett is just one of those defenders who knows how to make a player extremely uncomfortable, and has the athleticism and natural ability to match that IQ. He knows how to properly front larger big men, has quick hands to deflect passes into the post, has the length and jumping ability to bother shots, and has that fesitiness to play up on the Amare and Chris Bosh types and had the athleticism to recover if they took him off the dribble. Overall, KG simply could lock people down. 2) Versatility. Howard is amazing at blocking and altering shots at the rim, but a prime KG affected the defense in so many more aspects. He could completely destroy a PnR with his ability to force the ballhandler off his path, as well as effectively switch onto the ballhandler or recover and deflect a pass. Anytime a wing player drove into the lane, KG was incredible at cutting them off well before they got to the rim. Many times this is more effective than simply contesting or blocking a shot, and I think LeBron and Kobe's 2008 post-season performances against the Celtics prove that. KG also had range; his freakish talent and athleticism allowed him to cover so much more ground than Dwight without sacrificing any gimme's. It even allowed him to successfully switch onto quicker perimeter players whenever it was necessary. 3) When you compare Howard to many other great defensive players, a big advantage he usually has is his rebounding. Against a prime KG, the difference is almost non-existent. KG usually grabbed between 9.5-10DRPG per 36min in his prime, with a DRB% of 29.5-31.0. Howard is up around 10.0DRPG per 36min, and a DRB% of about 31.0. 4) Dwight's greatest attribute, his shot-blocking, also happens to be one of his big weaknesses. Because he is so quick to block a shot, he gets himself into foul trouble very easily. We saw it time and time again in the playoffs, a quick 2 fouls and he's out of the game for the next 10-12 minutes. When you can't stay on the floor it completely robs you of being able to make any kind of impact on the game, and forces the coach to alter the gameplan. And when you are fouling a player on a shot attempt, it is an easy 2 FT's. KG may not have ever been a guy to swat 7 shots in a half, but he also rarely commited stupid fouls or consistently put himself in a position where he wasn't on the floor for 40 minutes. So yeah, as I said it was tough, but definitely think KG has the advantage.

Note- WE ARE JUST DISCUSSING WHO'S BETTER ON DEFENSE!!!!! Anyway, I saw a similar topic on RealGM and found some of the responses to be very interesting and compelling for both sides. I'll give my 2 cents later, but I'm curious to see how everyone else feels.

Once again, no he doesn't...did you watch any Knicks basketball last season? David Lee made a living off the PnR with Chris Duhon and Toney Dougles manning the point. Of course it is a huge plus to have one of the greatest PGs in NBA history playing the PnR game with you, but it is not a necessity. Amare is so dangerous in the PnR that he'll still get plenty of open jumpers and dunks. Not like he did with Nash, but the oppertunities will be there. And just because the majority of Amare's points were from a certain play doesn't mean he can't score in other varieties. Amare's got a great face-up game, and that is how he usually scores against some of the elite teams in the post-season (see- 37PPG against Tim Duncan in the 2005 WCF, or his 42pt game agains the Lakers in the 2010 WCF). He's got plenty of skills to score in iso situations, and has shown them time and time again with the Suns.

Amare is great off the dribble, has a near automatic midrange jumper and is amazing at drawing contact. And it's not like he needs Nash to be an effective PnR player...David Lee managed to get a ton of looks off PnR situations last year and Amare is even better at it. Wayyyy back in 2003-2004, when Amare lost Marbury to NY via trade, he was still averaging 25PPG under D'Antoni. That was before he added a consistent jumpshot and a few new moves. I doubt he'll drop that much in terms of production, if at all. Only in FG % will he take a hit IMO.

Yes, in YOUR opinion you're a better role model if you say what's on your mind. But that's not the way the world works, and I think most people's reactions to Wade's comments (including his own apology) will back that up. It's kind of like in Chapelle's Show where "keeping it real" goes wrong. The moral is there is a place and time to say these kinds of things, and to say what he did in front of a bunch of cameras garners he and the Heat unnecessary negative attention. And it isn't a crime to say what's on your mind, but the consequence comes from the perception of the public against he and the Heat. Public perception is a big thing for these athletes and teams.

No, but at the same time Wade should do what's best for his brand as well as the Heat's. This comment makes him look bad, even if people are taking too much out of it. When you're son is looking up to Wade to be a role model, and he essentially compares himself and the Heat losing 2 games to the largest attack on our soil in US history, it's just a bad situation.

MJ signed an 8 year extension 2 years into the league. He never was a FA at this point in his career, and when he came back for the last 3-peat he was making over $30M per season on a team that won 55 games without him. Totally different situations.

To be fair, he was a starter on a team that made the NBA Finals But yeah, I understand your frustrations...I had to put up with him for 7 years. At least he'll just be a cheerleader on your bench instead of a starter like on the Nets.

I expect Amare to average about 24PPG on 50-51% shooting (to go with 9RPG and 1.5BPG). In other words, he'll be producing as much scoring as he did in Phoenix, just not quite as efficiently. The notion that he needs Nash to spoon-feed him open dunks and jumpers is ridiculous. Yes, his efficiency will go down a bit without an elite PG, but he is still a very capable scorer regardless. He has a great jumper, is impossible to stop off the drive, is great at drawing contact and getting to the line, and will still be finishing off plays in PnR situations just like Lee did last year.

Honestly I don't think I've seen him play since he was on the Nets, but if he's still roughly the same player, he's a good defender and an extra 6 fouls when you go up against Dwight/Yao/Bynum/Gasol/etc... Absolutely horrendous offensive player, though, and that was with Kidd feeding him enough freebie's to shoot above 40% (Collins has shot 32% and 35% the last 2 seasons which is God awful).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/07/16/lebron/index.html Kind of long, but a really interesting read. I agree with a lot of what he said.

It's not a bad signing because the Rockets desperately needed depth in the frontcourt (Yao or no Yao), but $5M a year? Miller's a good player and his passing will be showcased in Adelman's system, but he's 33 years old and shot a career-worst 43% last season. He's also soft, and ideally Yao's backup Center should be a bruiser that can defend and rebound well. Miller doesn't fit that criterea too well.

Eh...normally I would say start Carter and wouldn't think twice about it, but it depends on how he plays. With a player like VC confidence and ego is everything, and if you put him on the bench his confidence and ego goes down the tube. However, if he shoots sub-40% like he did the majority of last season, I think you have to start JJ. With the East getting better at the top, they won't have the luxory of waiting out on VC to explode and play like he did in Toronto and NJ. They will have to give the guy who is playing better basketball more minutes, and if JJ is out-performing Vince, he should start. Either way, if I were the Magic I would really look into moving VC at the trade deadline. I believe he's an expiring contract, and if they can use him as a trading chip to get a Chris Paul or Carmelo Anthony, they should do everything in their power to make it happen.

As some other people have said, who cares? Why should Jordan's comments have any bearing? Why should LeBron (and every other superstar swingman since 1998) be compared so heavily to Jordan? LeBron is his own man, and a completely different player than anything this league has ever seen. He's probably the most individually accomplished 25 year old in NBA history. The only thing keeping him from the all-time greats discussion is championships, and even if people view them as tainted, it will still be an impressive feat if he could rack up a few in Miami. And in 3-4 years when Wade starts to decline and LeBron will be smack dab in his prime, then we can see if he can be the kind of player to lead his team to a championship as the undisputed #1 option.