Nitro

This is AWFUL!! I hope to god sites like rapidshare don't follow suit.

Again, if you're going to paint with a broad brush, and want to use stats, you gotta deal with the bottom line...2.3PPG extra is a big increase from one player. It will most likely add to multiple wins. No, it won't add 5+ points to a players' stat line, but when comparing superstars, the difference does make for an advantage. And with all superstars not being terribly far apart, any advantage can make or break a comparison, and can make one player or another more productive/effective.

If we are talking stats, you have to look at things matter-of-factly. It will add 2.2PPG to the team's offensive output...that is significant and will only help the team. To even insinuate it would hurt them (last part of first quote) is absolutely ridiculous. As I said, it's the basic equivilent of Dwight Howard going from a 50-70% FT shooter, which everyone would agree would be a huge improvement. I'm done arguing this, the whole premise is kinda ridiculous, especially if we factor in the many "what-if" scenarios that come about during an NBA season. If we are talking stats, it adds over 2PPG to his individual and team's scoring output. That's a big improvement.

There are so many variables that can come into play, but one thing doesn't change... It's over 2PPG added to his team's scoring output. 160+ points a season. If you don't think that will add up to an extra win or two AT LEAST, that's signficant. And that's just ONE PLAYER adding 5% to his FG%. One man on a roster that has about 15 different players play at one time or another during the season. To see how big 5% truly is, add it to 2-3 other players on the roster. Now you're talking about a MAJOR increase in offensive productivity. Completely changes the entire dynamic of the team. If we are going to argue stats, you can't avoid those results. 5% for a volume scorer like Kobe is huge.

Entirely different roles. You'd be hard-pressed to find another 30PPG scorer that led the league in usage and still had 4 consecutive seasons with a TS% over .600 like MJ did. But yes, Martin is generally very efficienct as far as TS% goes. Of course, there needs to be analysis involved to make sense of the stats, but Martin does what he does quite well (although this season he's sucked).

See, now you're twisting everything around. Yes, if Kobe was more efficient, some of those games would have changed, coaching strategy would change, etc... But, you said does that ONE shot make a difference and used Kobe last season as an example. I showed you how, if you spread those 82 shots out evenly, they would have statistically won 2 more games, and possibly won 2 more. Either way it's over 160+ points on the season. Those points are bound to fetch a few extra wins. Bottom line is one extra FGM is over 2PPG for wing players. That's a BIG difference by one player. That's like Dwight going from a 50% FT shooter to 70%. It would bring Kobe's scoring average from 25.3PPG to about 27.5PPG. But, because my viewpoint hurts your new arguement in any Kobe threads, I'm sure you'll continue to fight the significance of a 5% increase in FG%.

Well if you are going to add those 82 shots evenly over 82 games, then yes, it does only affect games that are decided within one shot. Last season, one extra shot by Kobe would have definitely won 2 games, could have won a 3rd, and could have tied the 4th. At the very worst, that's 2 extra wins for his team. Imagine how many wins Miami would have last season if you add one extra shot to LeBron or Wade's total? Bottom line is one extra FGM is likely going to be about 2.2PPG added to a team's total output. That's significant. There are other ways you can spread it out...like add the FGM to games only where they lost below 10pts. If you do it that way, you can add about 10 wins to most teams, if not more. This whole premise is a little faulty.

Yes, but 3 pointers count for more points. 60% shooting on 2 pointers equals 40% on 3 pointers. It's why Augustin averages more points despite taking half a shot less and shooting 6-7% worse from the field. It's why Billups is always really efficienct despite being ridiculously inefficient in overall FG% (his FT shooting also helps a lot, but it's because he takes so many 3's and hits them at a good clip).

Well, let's use Kobe as an example...last season, the Lakers were an elite team, so losses were few. However, they lost 4 games by 3pts or less (which is the range of that one shot could be). That's pretty significant, and of course when the playoffs roll around and games are even tighter, that one extra shot means even more. Still, 4 wins by one player making one extra shot per game is a huge jump. What I tend to look for more is consistency. Players with lower shooting percentage tend to be less consistent than players with higher shooting percentage. That's important.

Augustin is taking 4 more 3 pointers a game and is shooting 6% better on those shots...that's what creates the difference in efficiency, not the FT%.

That's the issue...who's going to run the PnR with him? Shumpert is constantly thinking shoot-first, as is Douglas, as is Melo. Fields doesn't have the vision or ability to make it work, either. Without a good, willing passer, Amare iso's is what you'll constantly get. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't gain 20+ pounds in the offseason, which I knew from the first preseason game against the Nets was a bad idea, especially since he moved back over to PF. Now he is lacking the quickness to get past defenders, and his shooting has been the worse I've seen it since 04-05. Overall, it's an ugly combo and he's just looked awful this season.

Bell was always an overrated defender IMO. Prince started to shoulder far more offensive load 4-5 years ago, and his commitment to defense has dropped significantly...now he just cares about being a chucker on bad teams. The truly great defenders tend to seperate themselves with Drtg. It doesn't always happen, but it's not a terrible statistical gauge. I've actually been quite impressed with Augustin this season. It's probably because he's in a contract year, but he's been good in PnR's, played some tough basketball, hustles, and his stats reflect it....15.8PPG/7.5APG/3.6RPG, only 2.6 TO's and a .528 TS% (compared to Henderson's .510....so, actually DJ's been more efficient ). As for Henderson, I put him in a similar class to Wilson Chandler. He can generally give you 15/6, can do a little bit of everything scoring the ball but doesn't do any thing very well, will hit the boards well, and overall he can be a solid wing player. I don't think he'll ever be an all-star, but he can be a good complimentary wing.

Wade got a wide open alley oop off an inbounds play, the other one was legit. Regardless, I believe Miami is now 4-0 without Wade, and 5-4 I believe with him. And this is coming from a guy whose favorite player is Wade. Since he got hurt, he's played like shit overall, and the Heat have played better after that first week without Wade as opposed to with him.

The thing about LeBron is Wade has been hurt the entire season (well, besides the first 2 games). He's won all the games without Wade, while putting up by far the best stats in the league, and continuing to play stellar defense. Even though he's got more help than in Cleveland, he still does every bit as much as he did a few years ago. The only difference is when he has an off-game, Miami is better equipped to win than Cleveland was. Rose is too high IMO. He hasn't played up to his standards this season, and I believe his team won 2 of 3 without him (with the PG's for the Bulls going nuts in the 2 wins, IIRC). Rose is a huge part of the team's success, but ultimately that success is built on the team's defense and depth. Don't have a problem with Kobe/Durant being the top 2 at this point.

I don't know if I'd really call Bosh underrated, either...I know what Flash is saying, but he's still making max money and making All-Star teams. He gets a LOT of shit from fans, but most everyone knows how talented he is. James Harden, Manu Ginobili, Jrue Holliday, Kyle Lowry, Paul Milsap, Taj Gibson (was gunna say Luol, but he's become nearly overrated for being so underrated), Ty Lawson and similar players are underrated, at least as far as players who make a big impact but don't get the recognition they deserve.

I don't understand the purpose in trading for Williams if you give up Lowry + Scola. Why would Williams sign there without the two best players currently on the team (which is only 7-7 atm)?

Garden of lulz.

Meh...I think Payton, Nash, Stockton and Paul would have won championships with those teams (Kidd probably not because he was never the scorer Thomas was). As I said before, he was a very inefficient scorer and was quite turnover prone. He never had the same understanding of how to run an offense as Nash, Stockton, Paul or Kidd (on the same level of Payton, though). His 2 championships and his legacy have greatly overblown the player he actually was. All I was trying to say originally was that there are at least 4 PG's who were on Thomas' level or better than him.

Depends on how you're ranking them. By careers, I'd probably go Magic, Oscar, Nash, Payton, Kidd. Last 3 can be interchangable, they're very close.

Isiah Thomas is grossly overrated. He filled up the stat sheet early in his career, but it didn't result in wins. He was a 4+ TO guy and scored quite inefficiently (below .520 TS% for his career). When he toned it back offensively, his team finally won. And let's not make believe that he was some game-changing defender...he never made an All-Defensive team in his career. Yes, Stockton was placed in an offense that maximized his talents, but give me his ability to efficiently run an offense, and get his 16-17PPG on high percentages over Thomas. Defensively, you can also make a strong case for Stockton being the better player as well. Nash is a dropoff defensively, but the difference between he and Thomas offensively is pretty big as well.

Right now Nash is surrounded by garbage. Put him on the Rockets with weapons like Martin and Scola and they'd without a doubt be a playoff team. His skill hasn't diminished from just 2 years ago when he was the #1 player on a WCF team (one that lost to the eventual champs). He is still arguably the most dangerous offensive player in the game. BTW, Lowry averaged 5/3/2 with 33% shooting that post-season. Brooks, Artest, Scola and Landry were all undoubtedly more important pieces in that 2nd round. Battier, too, for his defense on Kobe. Lowry is a career 77% shooter from the FT line, and 33% from 3. This season has been an extremely small sample size. Can he keep 91% and 42% averages up? We know Nash can put up big numbers and sustain them with great efficiency. I am not ready to say Lowry can do the same. I've seen 3 games from the Rockets this season, and I am hugely impressed with Lowry...but he is not a better distributor than Rondo. He doesn't have the same vision or ability. And I certainly wouldn't take him over Nash yet. That is not a slight of Lowry, it's just that I have to see a lot more than a dozen games of him playing at this level.

Huh? Nash has carried plenty of teams in the past, and he's the same player as he was back then. Lowry hasn't even made an all-star team, and thus far he's yet to prove he can carry a team anywhere as the #1 guy. Agree with everything but the playmaking...Rondo is without a doubt the better playmaker than Lowry. Better vision, more capable of making certain passes, and can control tempo better than Lowry.

I wasn't comparing Nash, Stockton and Kidd to Paul, I was comparing them to Thomas.

Nice article, though it seems to abruptly end and kinda lacks a point (pun completely intended). Aside from the guys you mention; Curry, Westbrook, Nelson, Rubio, Parker, Holliday, Lawson, Lowry, Felton, Augustine, Collison, Irving....this league is stacked with talent at the PG position. It's pretty crazy. Oh, and Paul the best PG since Thomas? I'd put prime Kidd, Payton, Nash and Stockton at least on the same level as Thomas, if not better. Same goes for Paul.

At the level he's been playing on the last 2-3 years? Probably another year or two. I do think, however, that his IQ and versatlity is sometimes overlooked. Yes, he is not a great jumpshooter, but he has developed a tremendous post-game for a SG, and as he gets older I suspect he will go to that more often. He'll still be able to get to the rim with deception and handles, though obviously his ability to finish will diminish as he ages. His defensive awareness will still be very good, as will his ability to hit open players and rebound the basketball. Overall, I can see him playing at an all-star level until about 34ish, and a superstar level until about 32.