Nitro

As I said; irrational. Understandable, but irrational.

LINK Gold. Pure, greasy gold.

When has he ever torn his MCL in a big game? What we do know is he did tear his MCL before in a game, and was forced to sit the rest of the game out. Try and twist that anyway you want.

That's the problem; when people find a scapegoat, especially a common one like Cutler, they will be completely irrational at times. This Cutler situation is one of those instances. All the crap he's done in the past is irrelevant to this isolated injury. He tried to play with it, couldn't go, the training/coaching staff felt he couldn't go, and the MRI showed he did infact have a significant injury. If he played on that injury, he would have been at a great risk of tearing his ACL (according to an article DBF posted), which would have kept him out for a very long time. As far as injuries go, athletes know their own bodies, and they have the best doctors and trainers in the world to diagnose and treat these injuries. So, whatever they say I'll tend to believe. I've also seen too many times a coach/owner try and push the player to play through injury, and he does so and ends up royally [expletive]ing his career up (like what Adelman did with T-Mac in 2008, in which the injury eventually led to his microfracture surgery). As long as the athlete doesn't have an agenda to [expletive] his team over, then they should have their word taken seriously. If they can't go out there and make positive contributions, and are feeling significant pain, they should sit out.

And look at how many former players are half-retarded for playing through concussions, or can't get up in the morning because they played through injury and didn't let themselves heal. Besides, as DBF said, one of the NFL's toughest players, Hines Ward, suffered the exact same injury and wasn't able to continue playing. That should be telling enough.

If they thought it wasn't a serious enough injury to require ice in an NFC Championship game, then something would have come out from the Bear camp, whether it be straight-forwardly or annonymously, bashing Cutler. And I clearly remember him trying to ride the bike, so obviously there was treatment involved. The Bears wouldn't neglect their FRANCHISE QB treatment in the most important game of the season. If you seriously believe that, then you're just being foolish. He DID tear his MCL, and didn't know exactly when it happened, completely debunking your theory that you should know immediately if it's a tear or not. That DOES NOT matter. What does matter is that he felt the pain, and didn't think he was able to perform at the minimal level required to play in the game, and obviously the training staff concured. Basically, everyone agreed it was best he sat out, and the MRI confirmed that was the right decision. Football is a physical game, and in the NFL you have 300lbs guys coming at you at full-speed trying to take you down. Being able to stand, or even being able to jog/lightly run, doesn't mean you're good to go. If that was the case, there would be a lot more players playing on ankle sprains and similar injuries. I can't believe your side of this arguement...it's absolutely ridiculous. Just because he didn't knock the coach out, ran back on the field and ran a few plays before eventually tearing his ACL doesn't mean he doesn't have a strong desire for the sport. And he certainly made the right decision staying off the field. No one knows your own body better than yourself, so the fact that he made the right decision based on the pain he felt, which was backed by the MRI showing a tear, means that he did nothing wrong....except he didn't put on a show on the sidelines displaying his high levels of testosterone, even though it wouldn't have changed anything the mattered, and if it did would have put him at a strong risk of suffering a very serious injury. That's what you wanted, right?

You saw maybe a few clips of Cutler on the sidelines the entire 2nd half, so you have no idea what they did to treat the injury. I highly, highly doubt the training staff didn't try to treat the injury, especially during an NFC Championship game. If they thought it was an injury that didn't even require ice, he would have been back on the field, or the coaching staff/team would have ripped him apart in the post-game, even if it was done anonymously. That wasn't the case. Just being able to stand and being able to play QB in THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE(!!!) are 2 very different things. There is a reason why if the Bears had won he would have been a game-time decision for the Super Bowl. I'm sorry, but your silly comparisons with you and your brother playing with similar injuries in high school basketball/pickup basketball have no relevance. Football is an entirely different animal, and we're talking about playing on a pro-level here. Not to mention playing against a really tough defense behind arguably the worst offensive line in the league.

It's really not, especially when 2Pac made thousands of songs and probably didn't have even 5min worth of rhyme-biting. I KNOW Nas doesn't have even 2min of biting people's rhymes, and he's been around longer than Jay.

We're talking about 7+ minutes of someone biting other rappers' rhymes, a lot of times word-for-word. 3 minutes of just Biggie [expletive], and then Jay had the nerve to call himself better than Big. I'm sorry, but it rubs me the wrong way. Find me even 2min of Nas or Em biting other people's rhymes and I'd give the, "All rappers bite lines" statement some credence.

T-Mac partying like it's 2003 in that 1st half...had 17/3/3 on 7-14 shooting. I had a feeling he'd come to play against the Magic.

You're completely wrong if you think there's no one defending him besides his teammates and some people on OTR. I've been exposed to about 20min of sports today; 15min of sports radio, and 5min of ESPN. In the 15min of sports radio, Mike Francesa was defending him, and thought it was ridiculous that people are condemning Cutler for yesterday when he would have been questionable at best had the Bears made the Super Bowl. In the 5min I watched ESPN, I heard Drew Brees, a fellow QB, saying the hate was undeserved and that you can't rip a guy apart without knowing the severity of the injury. That's just from what I heard. And I'd expect former players to say that; they have that jacked up testosterone and mentality to say those kinds of things, but fact of the matter is they are in the exact same position we are judging Cutler's injury. Unless they had the same exact injury and were in the same exact situation, they are just as ignorant to it as you or I. And he DID try and test it out, in the 3rd quarter...and he couldn't go, period. Do you question Hines Ward, who a poster in this thread showed had the same injury and couldn't play out that specific game? You may have no sympathy for him, but your reasoning as to why it's "his fault" is irrational. Just because he had poor body language doesn't mean a guy with a ligament tear should re-enter a game where he would have been a lameduck behind a crappy offensive line. When you factor in he's the franchise QB, it makes even less sense.

Not 7+ minutes of material, most lines being bitten word-for-word. Also, Em never bit 3+ minutes of a single rapper's lines and then claimed to be better than that rapper, like Jay did with BIG.

There's a huge difference between using a line, keeping the original rapper's voice, and making it a hook (which is what he did with Dead President II), as opposed to spitting someone's same line in a verse. "How much of Biggie's rhymes gon' come out your fat lips?"

It's much better lol, especially since Jay-Z stole the best line in that verse. And listen to that song I told you, you won't look at Jay-Z the same way again. He's stolen about half of the best lines in his career.

The last line he bit. Listen to the Jay-Z diss I posted in this thread a day or two ago called 'Swagger Jacker' by Cam'ron. It's a 7min mix of Jay-Z biting other rapper's lines. And FWIW... Since I'm in a position to talk to these kids and they listen I ain't no politician but I'll kick it with 'em a minute Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I'll wear it But if it don't, then y'all'll swallow the truth grin and bear it Now who's these king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics Usin his music to steer it, sharin his views and his merits But there's a huge interference - they're sayin you shouldn't hear it Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish

Give me a break. First off, being a professional athlete doesn't compensate for the extra 100+ pounds Cutler has weighing on his ligaments. That logic is flawed. The bigger you are, the more succeptable (sp?) you are to injury. Secondly, playing high school basketball in practice is WAY different than being hit by pro NFL athletes. I've played through injuries in basketball that there is no way I would have been able to play on in football, let alone on a pro level. There is reason why simple things like ankle sprains sideline pro athletes for a long longer than they would sideline you or I in pickup games. As it is, the Bears offensive line is garbage, so an immobile Cutler would have been a lameduck, which would have caused him to perform even worse than he was already playing.

SOURCE

At the time, I don't think anyone could have done what Nash did with those Suns, not even Kidd (and I'm from NJ and a HUGE Kidd fan). Again, he ran the best offenses of the last decade, and put up the highest assist totals (along with insane shooting efficiency) in a decade. I think what he did, especially in 05-06 without Amare, was pretty special. If LeBron's Cavs won a few more games, or Kobe cracked 50+ wins, I'd be inclined to agree that his MVP in 05-06 wasn't warranted, but the fact of the matter is that the cards fell perfectly in Nash's lap. 3 wins is pretty significant, especially when you factor in that the Suns were playing in a vastly superior conference. In 04-05 only 2 teams, the Heat and Pistons, won more than 47 in the EC. Out West, 7 teams were over 47 wins. That's a huge difference. And Amare was definitely improved in 04-05, but I really don't believe he would have been the All-Star he was without Nash (just that season, once he got his jumper to be automatic it's a different story). Also, some stats- The Heat were a +9 with O'Neal on the floor, and +2 without him on the floor. Meanwhile, the Suns were a +12 with Nash on the floor, and a -2 with him off the floor. May or may not have much meaning, but is just one more thing that supports Nash's value over Shaq's. Odom averaged less points, rebounds and assists in that post-season than he did in that regular season, and averaged 4 TO's. Butler averaged 10PPG on 38% shooting. Also, Eddie Jones shot below 40% that post-season as well. Bottom line is that 03-04 team was closer to a 45-48 win team than a .500 team. If Wade didn't miss 20+ games, I do think they would have gotten near 50 wins. That is NOT to downplay Shaq's value on the following year's squad, but I do think the Heat were better than you're giving them credit for.

There's a lot of factors that go into it. To clarify, my judgement of the MVP in this topic is a mixture of who deserves it based on the usual MVP criterea from past years, and my own opinion. But yeah, a 'Most Outstanding Player' award would definitely be a great addition. Wait, I'm confused....in that first paragraph are you talking about 05-06, or last season (09-10)? I am assuming 05-06, but you said 'last year', and then said 'LeBron doesn't have...yet' in the present tense. I'm guessing since you included Brand in that list of players you meant 05-06. Anyway, I agree Kobe was absolutely jaw-dropping in 05-06, but you have to realize LeBron did roughly the same job that season with the Cavs. Kobe played in a tougher conference, so I'd say that makes up for the 5 extra wins the Cavs won that season. But, the Cavs had a foundation? What was that? Everyone assumes LeBron had a bunch of shooters around him that season, but that's false. Of all the players on the team who played over 53 games, only Damon Jones (37%) shot better 34% or better from 3 that season. Larry Hughes, the team's 2nd best player, played only 36 games. Flip Murray played only 28 games. Varejao and Pavlovic both played less than 55 games. The rest of the team consisted of Big Z, Gooden and scrubs people forgot ever existed. Kobe didn't have a better supporting cast, but Odom was still good enough to add 15PPG and led the team in rebounding and assists. Really, LeBron never had a 2nd option as good Odom, especially before Mo arrived in Cleveland. Basically, both players were amazing, and led crappy teams really far. I think LeBron was very underrated that season, especially with how well he played in that post-season. I agree it was amazing, but with only 44 wins, and considering the barameter set forth by past MVP's, I just don't think he should have been MVP (and I'd argue that LeBron last year was right with Kobe's 05-06 season offensively). Even after Shaq went to the East, the conference was still much weaker than the West, which you didn't factor in along with Nash's Suns winning 3 more games than the Heat that season. Also, don't forget that Wade missed over 20 games his rookie season, and like every rookie took a little while to adapt. Despite that, they still made it to .500, and in the post-season got to the 2nd round and took the #1 seeded Pacers to 6 games.

Wrote something new today, to the beat of 'My Opinion' by Mac Mall (SICK beat). You have to listen to that song to understand the structure of this song. Of course it's a very rough draft....

Griffin. Due to his size, he has higher potential as a PF than Rose, a natural SG, does at PG.

If the award went to the guy who's most valuable of decent-good teams, then KG and Kobe would have more than 1 MVP, and LeBron might have more than 2. The 'most valuable' aspect of the award is just a small area, with 'best player' and 'best team' holding just as much, if not more weight. That's why I wish they would add a 'Most Outstanding Player' award, or simply replace the MVP with it. I'm not debating whether Malone deserved those MVP's over Jordan or Duncan (do think he deserved it over Duncan). I do think he deserved them over Stockton for the same reasons LeBron deserves it over Wade; he was simply the better player. And neither of those duo's should be compared to 04-05 Nash/Amare because Nash was CLEARLY the better player by a fair margin. Amare wasn't a top 10 player in the league at that point. Nash, Kobe, KG, Shaq, Dirk, Duncan, T-Mac, VC (that season especially he was killer), Pierce, AI, Wade and LeBron were all clearly better players, and that's just off the top of my head. Even now he's borderline top 10, and he's clearly a better player than he was in 04-05, even though Amare filled up the stat sheet that season. And yes, Amare dominated Duncan (who had plantar faschiatis, the same injury that's hampered Tyreke this season), but don't forget how Wade dominated and swept your Wizards with Shaq out for half the series. No way did Kobe deserve it over Nash in 05-06. The Lakers were a 44 win team. I mean, if you're going that route, then you have to say LeBron deserved it over Nash as well, because LeBron was putting up 31/7/6 on strong efficiency and led a comparably horrible supporting cast to homecourt advantage in the playoffs. You can make a case for Shaq deserving it over Nash, but I do think what Nash did with the Suns was more impressive than what Shaq did with the Heat, even though individually Shaq was a superior player.

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070214/070214_vinceCarter_vmed6p.widec.jpg The bench is his future. Maybe for the Bulls if they still haven't filled their void at SG by next season.

Because quality, productive Centers are few and far inbetween nowadays. It's why most C's the level of Nene receive over the MLE in today's NBA.

ABL- I wrote a long response to your last post and my IE [expletive]ed up at the very end of the reply, so just a few quick points.... 1) LeBron is a better player than Rose, is having a better season (both with the eye-test and from a production standpoint), and his team has performed better. The Heat were 0-3 in the games he didn't play/got injured in, while they were 2-1 without Wade. The Heat are so thin after the Big 3 that when one of them goes down, they are piss-poor. Going by how the MVP award is usually voted on, and going by my own opinion, LeBron clearly deserves the award over Rose. Unless a non-top 5 player does something relatively historic (like Nash did with the Suns) and/or he's the best player of the top 2-3 teams in the league, I think it's wrong for that player to win the MVP. 2) Malone was a better player than Stockton, that's why he got the MVP attention over him, and it's why LeBron is getting more MVP attention than Wade. Amare was nowhere near a better player than Nash in 04-05, and ditto for Marion. Nash did a lot more for Amare/Marion than Stockton did for Malone for the simple fact that Malone was capable of creating his own offense at an elite level. 3) Nash's defense was piss poor, but he ran an offense that was the best in over 10 years, which had a 7PPG advantage over the 2nd best offense in the league, and I believe he averaged the most assists in around a decade while being a very efficient scorer. Amare was not the same player his 3rd season that he is now, and his production and efficiency skyrocketed with Nash at PG. Same with Marion. They were a 29 win team before Nash, and a 60+ win team with Nash. Those years Kobe/LeBron/KG's teams were too horrible for them to be considered, Duncan's production wasn't the same as previous seasons to peak voter interest, T-Mac was battling injuries and his teams barely scratched 50 wins, etc... As I said before, it was a perfect storm for Nash to win those awards; he had, IMO, borderline top 5 seasons individually those MVP seasons, his teams won a ton of games while better players were generally on garbage teams. The 2010-2011 NBA season is a much different situation. The best players in the league are almost all playing on elite teams, and a few of them are producing equally, or more than Rose is.