Nitro

I think you're missing the point. From the onset most Heat fans wanted him out, with a HoF coach waiting to take the coaching reigns. Now that they are 8-6 with expectations that they are to perform at 100% every night, I think almost every single Heat fan wants him gone. You are right, most of it is the players' fault, but it is the coach's responsibility to hold player's accountable, and it is also the coach's responsibility to have the players buy into his concept. If fans are freaking out about their slow start, you don't think the player's, many of whom risked millions of dollars for this experiment, aren't freaking out as well? Do you honestly believe from what you've seen from this team that Spo is NOT on the verge of losing this team (or already has)? Once you lose the respect of the players, and once you are on a hot seat that is starting to go up in flames, there is no turning back.

Unfortunately for Spo, it seems like it's time for him to go. I feel bad for him because it's the first time he's ever had a team that could do some damage in the post-season, and he's had to deal with a few major injuries (Wade in the pre-season, Miller, now Haslem, etc...). Also, he was put in a position where he has to build a cohesive unit with brand-new parts that may not fit together perfectly, as well as all the huge ego's. With that said, the fans have wanted him to go from the start, the team is 8-6 with one of the most talented rosters in the league, and the players just don't seem to be responding to whatever coaching techniques he is using. With almost any other team, a coaching change wouldn't be needed so early. But with this specific group of players who are under such enormous pressure to perform at 100% capabilities every single night, I don't think a 3rd year coach (who has no NBA playing experience) with little experience in managing this type of team will get the job done.

Anyone else hate Gruden as an analyst? This week he's on Rivers' jock, but last week with Vick was the worst (and I love Vick)... Jaws: "The 'Skins defense is really getting picked apar...." Gruden: "Jaws, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but WHAT A PLAY BY MIKE VICK'S [expletive]!!! It's just SO HUGE, it'sOVERWHELMING the 'Skins defense right now! I know they said Vick's injury earlier this season was due to bruised ribs, but I think it was just that his BIG, DOG-KILLING [expletive] was sore from [expletive]ing the league so hard the first few games, and he figured it'd be nice to give the league a breather before resuming the pounding. Last night I met Vick at the hotel and he showed me his GIANT [expletive], and he put it in my mouth and I was ASTONISHED by his MASSIVE, THROBBING [expletive]!!! His [expletive] took the snap, looked off the defense, and SHOT OUT A BULLET RIGHT DOWN MY THROAT!!! WHAT A PLAY BY MIKE VICK'S [expletive]!!!!!" Jaws: "Uhhhh, but yeah, McNabb's really having a tough day out there tonight..." Gruden: "BECAUSE OF MIKE...VICK'S....[expletive]."

Bulls, although I would pick the Magic if they kept the same logo they've had for like the last 13-14 seasons... http://layupdrill.com/wp-content/uploads/orlando-magic-photograph-c12270855.jpeg

Whether it's deserved or not, and I believe it is, I would not be surprised to see Spo gone by tomorrow. There is no excuse for this team to be 8-6, especially with back-to-back losses against Memphis and Indiana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0T75uxpUtQ Don't know how many people here have heard this track, so I decided to post it. C-Webb actually did a really nice job with the production :glasses:

See, but here's the thing- It's HOW they shot over 50% from the field. With or without his peak athleticism, with or without Shaq, with or without Gasol, with or without the triangle, Kobe's style of play will always limit him to sub-50% shooting. More importantly he'll almost always shoot a worse FG% than a number of his closest peers who score in volume because of this (LBJ, Wade, Durant currently). Jordan ALWAYS scored more efficiently than Dominique, Drexler and similar players. Guys like Dantley and prime King scored with similar efficiency and volume, but nontheless Jordan was considered efficient for his time and style. Kobe is not. And since I know you won't take my word for it, but Phil Jackson himself said MJ's ability to shoot over 50% was a big difference between him and Kobe. Kobe is NOT an efficient scorer. Bringing it back to the topic of Bird, I look at Durant. Similar type of frame and style of play in terms of scoring (with Durant being more athletic, but Bird having a post-game, better ballhandling and generally a much higher IQ). Durant is still able to score VERY efficiently, and I fully believe in today's NBA Bird would too. With offenses being more spread and guys like LBJ taking over 5 3's per game, Bird would fit in just fine. I would think Bird would have a much easier time defeating a zone than Kobe would. Maybe not in a 1-on-5 situation, but he worked much better off-ball and was a much better catch-and-shoot player, which would wreak havoc on a zone. He would also be more patient than Kobe would, and his shot selection would be smarter, which would also help his efficiency. But yes, Kobe is amazing at all areas of scoring, and is a better iso scorer than Bird was. How so? Shaq led the league in scoring twice, FG% a whopping 10x, was top 3 in rebounding 5x, top 3 in blocks 3x, and besides Jordan he has been the only guy (so far) in the modern NBA to lead his team to a 3-peat as the undisputed #1 guy, winning all 3 Finals MVP's. His post-season runs during his prime were legendary. If he didn't miss so many games a number of those seasons, and if he wasn't completely robbed of his 2001 MVP, he'd have more MVP's at his disposal. Bird shot over 40% his rookie season from 3. The seasons early in his career that he didn't shoot well from 3 were seasons that A) The 3pt line was still brand new and coaches were figuring out how to take advantage of it, and B) Where he was taking less than 1 3pt shot per game. Once he started taking 1-4 3pt shots per game, his 3pt% was over 40%. Bottom line is he was a dead-aim 3pt shooter, and in today's NBA where 3pt shooting is a premium and some coaches base their entire gameplan around the 3pt shot, I think Bird would be fine. I'm using the eye-test for Bird being the better passer. He was a very willing, nifty passer who took care of the basketball. He understand offensive flow and how to get players the ball in their sweet spots...his IQ was insanely high. I generally include passing into the "playmaking" term, so even if a bunch of Kobe's TO's come off of careless ballhandling, that's still a big factor (Bird routinely had an A:TO ratio over 2:1, an area Kobe has never been strong at). I think Kobe is a great passer, but he makes a ton of mistakes when he is expected to consistently make plays for his teammates. How does it help your arguement? What's wrong or less dominant about scoring less in iso situations and more within the flow of the offense? Is Melo a better scorer than Durant on the basis that over 10% more of Durant's scoring was assisted last season? To measure dominance IMO is to see what a player did relative to his era. In a talent-heavy era Bird won 3 straight MVP's, multiple championships, multiple Finals MVP's, put up awesome numbers (relative to any era), won All-Defense awards a few times, and was the undisputed leader of arguably the best teams in NBA history. To me, that's dominant. Even if you don't consider him as dominant as Kobe, which is a shaky but reasonable arguement for sure, they are certainly in the same ballclub, which is what I was getting at you for in the first place.

Different era's...basketball was a LOT more different when it first started to evolve (in the '50's/'60's) to the golden era ('80's) than from the '80's to the '00's. And both Wilt and Big O are the least accomplished players, in terms of championships, in the entire top 10 list (and in O's case, MVP's as well). When numbers don't translate to dominance over the era (championships + MVP's), they don't have quite as much meaning. Scoring in iso situations is only a small fraction of the game. Kobe is a more talented one-on-one scorer and one-on-one defender without a doubt. But Bird was better off-ball on both offense and defense, a better passer, a better rebounder, and was a lot more efficient (which is saying a lot from a guy who pretty much lived on the perimeter). In a way, it's like comparing Kobe to Durant (a SF trapped in a long PF's body with dead-aim shooting ability), only if you take away some of Durant's athleticism, but give him LeBron's passing ability, increased rebounding, greater help-defense, greater clutch ability, and overall much greater court awareness. Also, if I remember correctly, during that famous moment when the Dream Team was playing pool where MJ declared that it was his league, Bird gloated about routinely abusing Pippen in head-to-head matchups. The quote was from a book, I'll try and find it. Listen, I don't really care about the subtle differences between most of the top 10 player's all-time. All I was trying to say is that to act like you can't fathom how someone would call Bird more dominant than Kobe is ridiculous, because he CLEARLY dominated arguably the most talented era in NBA history. He had the numbers, the MVP's, and the rings.

Well yeah, I meant out of perimeter players Even if we are talking Centers, stopping LeBron when he is at full-speed heading to the rim is pretty much as impossible to stop as anything in NBA history besides a Shaq dunk underneath the rim.

Ok, he's a better jumpshooter and FT shooter...what does Durant do better than LeBron besides scoring (even though we are completely ignoring LeBron is arguably the best finisher at the rim in NBA history)? The answer is nothing. The difference between their passing and ballhandling abilities is astronomical. LeBron is clearly a superior defender who makes a far bigger impact on that side of the ball. They are equal rebounders. LeBron is a better clutch performer. LeBron is more experienced, has more accolades and has proven he can take a team deep into the post-season as the undisputed #1 guy...Durant hasn't proven he can even get out of the first round.

With Haslem out until at least February, they need a big man first and foremost. Whether it be by signing Dampier or making a trade, that needs to be done ASAP. As for finding a veteran PG, I don't know if they will have much luck finding value in return. Chalmers is still hurt, and his trade value is at an all-time low since he hasn't gotten to see much PT this season. Personally, I don't see why they don't give him some extended minutes and see what he can do, or at least get his trade stock up a bit so they can get closer value in return.

Yeah, that's crazy. Not so much for Pau, since he is the best offensive big man in the league (or 2nd at worst to Dirk) and he played against a Warriors team without 3-4 of their big men. But Matt Barnes?!? Where the hell did the come from?

It's not just statistics with LeBron. You don't have to look at the stat sheet to show that LeBron is right there with Durant in the scoring department, a FAAAAAAAAAARRRR superior passer (which makes him useful when he's not scoring, something Durant isn't), a far superior ballhandler, a superior help AND on-ball defender, an equal rebounder, and he has done a LOT more in clutch situations the last few years than Durant has. He also has an experience edge and has proven he can lead teams deep into the post-season as the undisputed #1 option...Durant still has to prove he can get past the 1st round. This is a joke, right? Durant is pretty athletic, but he is not some explosive freak like you are making him out to be. I won't look at their combine numbers, but I'd bet Paul was both faster (much) and had a higher vertical leap than Durant did, who I remember had disappointing combine numbers. And who cares if Durant has height over a POINT GUARD?!? Paul scores even more efficiently than Durant, averages about 8 more assists while averaging LESS turnovers than Durant, grabs only about 2 boards less per game than Durant, plays better defense, is more clutch and is more experienced. His ability to play with teammates puts him ahead of LeBron...lol. See the Chris Paul arguement for my rebuttal for Durant's height making him a better player than Wade. That's crazy. For 1 season, there is no way Durant goes 2nd. For the next 10 years, yeah, Durant maybe first or second, but it doesn't make him a top 3 player right now.

Yes, and no one expected the Thunder to beat the Lakers. But Durant came up flat individually, and wasn't even the best player on his team that series. Therefor, to say he didn't come up short is ridiculous. Yes...huge sign looking forward. Right now it is laughable to call him a better player than Kobe, Wade, LeBron or Paul. I'd even say it's pushing it to call him a better player than Dwight.

Durant hasn't even been out of the first round yet. If he leads his team to the Finals this year like LeBron did with the Cavs his 4th season, you still won't have much of a case. LeBron is right there with Durant in the scoring department, a FAR superior passer, equal rebounder, better defender and statistically was FAR more clutch than Durant last season (who was disappointing in those situations). Give me a break. So did Wade's in 2008, but no one was claiming he was the best player in the league after he led the team in points, shot 67% from the field, was playing incredible defense and he scored 19pts in the first half of the Gold Medal game, which help lead up to he and Kobe icing it.

He shot 35% from the field, 29% from 3, and had 8 more turnovers than assists. From an OKC perspective, Westbrook was easily the best player in the series, averaging 21/6/6 on 47% shooting, 42% from 3 and he had 10 less turnovers for the series than Durant did. Not coming up short in your first playoff series is what LBJ, Paul and Wade did in their first series'. Durant came up short individually, didn't even have the best series on the team, and his team lost. It wasn't entirely unexpected, but he still came up short.

Huh? He shot well below 40% from the field that series, had a high number of TO's, and his team lost. From an analytical perspective, there is nothing besides maybe scoring and rebounding (because he's around 6'10'' and a SF) that he does better than Wade or CP3. Wade and CP3 are both FAR superior passers, better defenders, more clutch and have a lot more experience.

I agree, which I acknowledged in my first post. He's the only one who is close to the level of Kobe/LeBron/Wade. Still, as great as Paul is playing right now, just two years ago Wade was averaging 30/8/5/2/1.5 on nearly 50% shooting, and led a D-league team to the playoffs and a near-upset of the Hawks. He has proven he can win a championship, and did so in dominant individual fashion. Last year, after a slow start, he was once again dominant, led that Heat team to 47 wins, and I've never seen anyone torch the Celtics as badly as he did in that series (even though they lost in 5 games). I just think that people have very, very short-term memories, just like they did over the summer when I was one of the only people to put CP3 in a top 5 list, or back in summer 2008 when I was one of the only people to put Wade as a top 3 player in the league.

I think what he meant when he said that was he wish he was traded in like 2005 or 2006, not 2000 or 2001. As for this topic, there are SO many X-factors. First off, would they have been able to put their ego's aside at such a young stage of their careers? Without Doc as their coach and Thibs as an assistant, would they have had such good chemistry and willingness to dominate on the defensive end? Would they have developed the same as they eventually did? Would Ainge have built as strong of a supporting cast around the Big 3? Assuming they had the same coaching and all had a willingness to put their ego's aside, and they put around solid talent around the Big 3, they probably would have at least 6 championships by now. I figure 3-4 years they would have some injuries or would be beat in tough, long series' by eventual champions. But yeah, they would have plenty of hardware by now.

I'm down with the clown.

Wow...I don't know if it's because everyone hates the Heat or because he doesn't have the same offensive load he once had, but I think it's kinda crazy how Wade isn't running away with this, or how Kevin [expletive]ing Durant is leading. That's just embarassing.

LoL. If I didn't get the Yankees hat, I would have probably went with a non-sport team. Yankees are my favorite team in any sport. The Jets are the only other team I closely follow as a fan for a specific sport, but I've yet to find a Jet fitted that I like.

What would you suggest? Mets?

Woohoo got a new fitted today!! It's the same style as the one below, except the NY symbol is outlines in dark green, and the brim is camouflage. Probably the nicest hat I've ever gotten... http://www.goahats.com/images/new-york-yankees-black-hat-6247.jpg

I agree with this. IMO he's behind those first 7 players you mentioned, currently in the same realm as Hakeem/Duncan/Robertson, and clearly ahead of Baylor, West and Dr. J. By the end of his career, he'll without a doubt be top 8 all-time at the worst. -3 straight MVP's in the league's Golden Era (7 top 2 finishes in 8 years). -2 championships and 2 Finals MVP's during his 3 straight MVP run -24/10/7 career post-season average -A 29/11/7 average on 52%FG/44%3PT/88%FT during his peak season -If you're into WS, he led the league in DWS 4x, OWS 1x, and overall WS 2x I can continue on, but there is no doubt Bird was absolutely dominant during his career, specifically in his prime.