House Democratic official: 'We've got the votes' on health care

[YugoRocketsFan]

This bill is bring us towards socialism, and capitalism has worked so well for this country. Never has a system created so much wealth for all and a standard of living the world can only envy. Where else in the world do the poor have cell phones, internet, flat screen tv's, running water, and constant electricity?

 

Look around the world and stop listening to these retards in Washington DC. Other countries with the socialist policeis they're trying to push on us don't even have running water, paved roads, or electricity. And, the countries that do have some of these things are bankrupt and can only dream of being a super power like the US.

 

Truth be told, no system in this worlds history has created so much wealth for all and such a high standard of living as a free market capitalism society has. No system drags people from the bottom of society to a comfortable life like our system here.

 

When people start to realize this is when change will happen. When people realize the real change comes from within, and from the people is when hope will return.

 

WTFTF? For ALL? LOL. Not everyone has a cell, internet, flat screen,etc.

 

What are these countries with socialistic policeis (whatever that is) that dont have water, paved roads or electricity? Last time I checked countries like Denmark, Norway, Finland, etc. have socialistic policies yet they are much nicer than US, they have higher mortality rates, life expectancy.

 

The US is 13th when it comes to the Human Development Index (which is basically an accumilation of literacy, life expectancy rate, STANDARD OF LIVING, health and longetivity)

 

The US is beat out by Norway, Australia, Iceland, Canada, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and Finland. Some of these countries do have socialistic policies like Canada, Norway, Finland for example, and if you're gonna make some half-assed comment like OMG WHY DOES EVERYBODY MOVE TO US!, as most people do, its because the US has a much higher population and gives you a second and higher chance to live a better life as in your previous country, and the fact that the US also lets most people live here

 

In Yugoslavia, under socialism everybody had jobs, and financial stability. Now that Yugoslavia has split up, most arent working, the government is paying everybody for being lazy (and its 20x worse than here believe it or not). It might work pretty decently in the US, but not elsewhere where supposedly people dont have cell phones.

 

What Fox News, your social studies teachers, and the great American education books have told you is a skewed view of reality that Communism is a horrible type of government and that capitalism is amazing and wonderful.

 

Get over it, you're a Republican who has no knowledge of what is happening or how it is outside the US.

[OldChili]

This bill is bring us towards socialism, and capitalism has worked so well for this country. Never has a system created so much wealth for all and a standard of living the world can only envy. Where else in the world do the poor have cell phones, internet, flat screen tv's, running water, and constant electricity?

 

Look around the world and stop listening to these retards in Washington DC. Other countries with the socialist policeis they're trying to push on us don't even have running water, paved roads, or electricity. And, the countries that do have some of these things are bankrupt and can only dream of being a super power like the US.

 

Truth be told, no system in this worlds history has created so much wealth for all and such a high standard of living as a free market capitalism society has. No system drags people from the bottom of society to a comfortable life like our system here.

 

When people start to realize this is when change will happen. When people realize the real change comes from within, and from the people is when hope will return.

The United States might have been a super power for the past two hundred years or so, but everybody else is gradually catching up. The United States is not the superpower it once was.

 

Our capitalist society has such a high standard of living, because we're doing so at the expense of others. In regards to the population, the U.S. is using an unproportional amount of resources. Now as other countries are rising up in terms of power and influence, they'll want the same amount of resources we do. What is the U.S. going to tell them? No? Do you think they'll take that answer?

 

This system seemed great when we were the clear-cut number one in the world; you can't pretend we still are.

 

If you look at health care patterns all over the world, in most developed countries the government programs pay more than 70 percent of health care costs, and individuals pay less than 30 percent. In contrast, individuals in the least developed countries pay more than half of the cost of health care. The United States, however, follows closely the pattern of the least developed countries where most individuals are required to pay 55 percent of health care. That's not going to cut it if we want to continue being a super power.

 

Other countries with the socialist policeis they're trying to push on us don't even have running water, paved roads, or electricity. And, the countries that do have some of these things are bankrupt and can only dream of being a super power like the US.

Yes, because Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, and the Netherlands are all poor.

 

They all have some sort of government funded health care program, including universal health care... and guess what? They are some of the richest countries in the world. Government funded health care is not synonymous with being poor.

[OldChili]

WTFTF? For ALL? LOL. Not everyone has a cell, internet, flat screen,etc.

 

What are these countries with socialistic policeis (whatever that is) that dont have water, paved roads or electricity? Last time I checked countries like Denmark, Norway, Finland, etc. have socialistic policies yet they are much nicer than US, they have higher mortality rates, life expectancy.

 

The US is 13th when it comes to the Human Development Index (which is basically an accumilation of literacy, life expectancy rate, STANDARD OF LIVING, health and longetivity)

 

The US is beat out by Norway, Australia, Iceland, Canada, Ireland, Netherlands, Sweden, France, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and Finland. Some of these countries do have socialistic policies like Canada, Norway, Finland for example, and if you're gonna make some half-assed comment like OMG WHY DOES EVERYBODY MOVE TO US!, as most people do, its because the US has a much higher population and gives you a second and higher chance to live a better life as in your previous country, and the fact that the US also lets most people live here

 

In Yugoslavia, under socialism everybody had jobs, and financial stability. Now that Yugoslavia has split up, most arent working, the government is paying everybody for being lazy (and its 20x worse than here believe it or not). It might work pretty decently in the US, but not elsewhere where supposedly people dont have cell phones.

 

What Fox News, your social studies teachers, and the great American education books have told you is a skewed view of reality that Communism is a horrible type of government and that capitalism is amazing and wonderful.

 

Get over it, you're a Republican who has no knowledge of what is happening or how it is outside the US.

Great post.

[Doc]

lol the fear of socialism makes me laugh.

 

If this is the start of socialism, shouldn't Canada, France, and England be a socialist government by now?

[Real Deal]

lol the fear of socialism makes me laugh.

 

If this is the start of socialism, shouldn't Canada, France, and England be a socialist government by now?

There isn't a fear of socialism, it's just people not wanting Obama to do anything good, because it makes their party look worse.

 

I could care less who is in office right now, as long as they are doing something productive. This is productive. Political parties have ruined our country. People that are die-hard Democrats or Republicans force themselves to pull for nearly everything their party wants, and that's idiotic.

 

I wish Obama would do something about all of the illegals in our country. I don't mind immigration, as long as they are legal. I support health care. I also approved of the war, until it went sour and we were there for other reasons not specified. I don't let other people think for me, and that's what political parties do...they think for all of their followers.

 

There are people I know who have absolutely NO IDEA what this health care bill means...and they admit it. They say that change is not necessary...but they turn around and complain about how they can't pay for their meds, or how pre-existing conditions aren't accepted by their private insurance companies. It's because they can't come to a conclusion on their own.

[EastCoastNiner]

I don't know how you can say the U.S. is not a "super power" when the countries GDP is $13 trillion+, and Mexico, which is 9th I believe, isn't even a trillion dollars, and the amount our country spent on the stimulus package was worth about as much as Mexico's economy, and they are ninth.

 

The second biggest economy isn't even CLOSE to $13+ trillion.

[YugoRocketsFan]

I don't know how you can say the U.S. is not a "super power" when the countries GDP is $13 trillion+, and Mexico, which is 9th I believe, isn't even a trillion dollars, and the amount our country spent on the stimulus package was worth about as much as Mexico's economy, and they are ninth.

 

The second biggest economy isn't even CLOSE to $13+ trillion.

 

GDP? You do realize that the US also has well over 300 million people. The GDP per capita here is 47,440$, do you know what it is in Norway? 94386$

 

If Norway had a GDP of 13 trillion, everyone there would be earning 1 million annually.

Edited March 24, 2010 by YugoRocketsFan

[Real Deal]

I don't know how you can say the U.S. is not a "super power" when the countries GDP is $13 trillion+, and Mexico, which is 9th I believe, isn't even a trillion dollars, and the amount our country spent on the stimulus package was worth about as much as Mexico's economy, and they are ninth.

 

The second biggest economy isn't even CLOSE to $13+ trillion.

Sure it is, but you're acting like our economy is just fine, yet it hasn't been for nine years.

[EastCoastNiner]

GDP? You do realize that the US also has well over 300 million people. The GDP per capita here is 47,440$, do you know what it is in Norway? 94386$

 

If Norway had a GDP of 13 trillion, everyone there would be earning 1 million annually.

 

No you are wrong.

 

I listed what the nominal GDP is, not GDP/capita or whatever you are listing.

[YugoRocketsFan]

No you are wrong.

 

I listed what the nominal GDP is, not GDP/capita or whatever you are listing.

 

The nominal GDP in Norway is 451 billion, and this is a country with a population of 4.5 million?

 

The US is 80x bigger.

[EastCoastNiner]

The nominal GDP in Norway is 451 billion, and this is a country with a population of 4.5 million?

 

The US is 80x bigger.

 

There are a lot of poor people in this country, and as I told you offline, GDP doesn't account for the underground economy and economic bads.

[YugoRocketsFan]

There are a lot of poor people in this country, and as I told you offline, GDP doesn't account for the underground economy and economic bads.

 

You told me off-line? You stalkin me brah?

[EastCoastNiner]

Here's a great quote.

 

"The problem with Socialism is that, eventually, you run out of OTHER PEOPLE'S money."

-Margaret Thatcher

 

 

Why should the majority of American who have health-care pay for the small minority that don't?

 

It doesn't make sense.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Here's a great quote.

 

"The problem with Socialism is that, eventually, you run out of OTHER PEOPLE'S money."

-Margaret Thatcher

 

 

Why should the majority of American who have health-care pay for the small minority that don't?

 

It doesn't make sense.

 

 

Great quote from a REPUBLICAN.

 

Capitalism is a system of government for the rich.

[Real Deal]

Hey ECN, do you pay for your private insurance? I mean, out of your check? Probably sounds like a stupid question, but I'm just curious.

 

If you do, it would be nice to tell us how much comes out of your check every month (or bi-weekly), but you don't have to.

[EastCoastNiner]

Hey ECN, do you pay for your private insurance? I mean, out of your check? Probably sounds like a stupid question, but I'm just curious.

 

If you do, it would be nice to tell us how much comes out of your check every month (or bi-weekly), but you don't have to.

 

No, I am fortunate enough that right now, I don't have to, but in the future, I will try and find a job that offers it, and if I don't get a job that offers that, I will do everything I can to pay for it.

 

 

Again, the health-care is not the problem, it's the cost, and this bill raises the costs and weakens the care.

 

 

Also, I've seen you talk about your diabetes a lot and how much it costs you, which is unfortunate because no one wants to have diabetes, but what do you think of the bill taking a lot of money away from medicare because I'm pretty sure I've seen you talk about medicare before?

 

I'm honestly just wondering.

[Real Deal]

No, I am fortunate enough that right now, I don't have to, but in the future, I will try and find a job that offers it, and if I don't get a job that offers that, I will do everything I can to pay for it.

 

 

Again, the health-care is not the problem, it's the cost, and this bill raises the costs and weakens the care.

 

 

Also, I've seen you talk about your diabetes a lot and how much it costs you, which is unfortunate because no one wants to have diabetes, but what do you think of the bill taking a lot of money away from medicare because I'm pretty sure I've seen you talk about medicare before?

 

I'm honestly just wondering.

Medicaid and Medicare are too different things. Medicaid pays for everything, Medicare doesn't. Medicaid covers my eye surgeries in full.

 

Most people (older people, by the way) get with Medicare because private insurance companies don't cover a damn thing. The idea is to bounce to Medicare because of things like pre-existing conditions...and this bill changes all of that, as you know.

 

Since you don't have insurance taking money out of your checks, we'll use the average (according to a couple of websites)...the average health care plan for a family is $13,000 a year.

 

My question to you is this: do you think most people spend $13,000 a year for medical purposes?

 

Even better, do you think 50% of the people that work and spend that much money each year actually rack up $1,000 a month in medical bills?

 

If not, just tell me where you think that money goes. Just curious. Who's getting that money?

[EastCoastNiner]

Medicaid and Medicare are too different things. Medicaid pays for everything, Medicare doesn't. Medicaid covers my eye surgeries in full.

 

Most people (older people, by the way) get with Medicare because private insurance companies don't cover a damn thing. The idea is to bounce to Medicare because of things like pre-existing conditions...and this bill changes all of that, as you know.

 

Since you don't have insurance taking money out of your checks, we'll use the average (according to a couple of websites)...the average health care plan for a family is $13,000 a year.

 

My question to you is this: do you think most people spend $13,000 a year for medical purposes?

 

Even better, do you think 50% of the people that work and spend that much money each year actually rack up $1,000 a month in medical bills?

 

If not, just tell me where you think that money goes. Just curious. Who's getting that money?

 

Obviously the insurance companies benefit, but that's capitalism.

 

 

The costs right now are high mostly because of areas where the government was already involved in health insurance (FDA, medicare, medicaid, HMOs, etc., along with other subsidies and regulations).

 

Look at Lasik eye surgery for example. It isn't covered by insurance or medicare and as a result companies have to compete both in prices and quality in order to gain customers. The result is that lasik surgery has become better and cheaper over time. Prices began at about $2500 per eye over 15 years ago, but as more competitor's entered the market, the procedures improved and prices have been reduced. Most procedures are about 1/4th of that cost now.

[Flash]

Obviously the insurance companies benefit, but that's capitalism.

 

 

The costs right now are high mostly because of areas where the government was already involved in health insurance (FDA, medicare, medicaid, HMOs, etc., along with other subsidies and regulations).

 

Look at Lasik eye surgery for example. It isn't covered by insurance or medicare and as a result companies have to compete both in prices and quality in order to gain customers. The result is that lasik surgery has become better and cheaper over time. Prices began at about $2500 per eye over 15 years ago, but as more competitor's entered the market, the procedures improved and prices have been reduced. Most procedures are about 1/4th of that cost now.

 

Agree with everything you said especially the last part.

[Real Deal]

You missed my point.

 

The premiums everyone pays, monthly, go to the insurance company (obviously). The way they distribute that money? Anywhere between 10-30% of it goes directly to the company. Guess where the rest goes? Paying for everyone's medical care, everyone who is covered by that particular insurance company.

 

So, right now, if people aren't using up ALL of the money they are paying in premiums, the money is paying for everyone else covered by that company. In other words, everyone is paying for everyone already.

 

So answer me this: why not STILL pay for others, but receive free medical treatment, instead of having to pay 20-30% of it out of pocket, and worry about $250-500 deductibles? The general complaint is that a lot of you don't feel like you should be paying for others' medical bills...but hey, you are already doing that.

[Real Deal]

Look at Lasik eye surgery for example. It isn't covered by insurance or medicare and as a result companies have to compete both in prices and quality in order to gain customers. The result is that lasik surgery has become better and cheaper over time. Prices began at about $2500 per eye over 15 years ago, but as more competitor's entered the market, the procedures improved and prices have been reduced. Most procedures are about 1/4th of that cost now.

Lasik doesn't cost $600. There are Lasik treatments that still cost $2,000. Not sure where you came up with that. There's a Lasik center where I go in Oklahoma City, and it's $1,900 there.

 

Lasik dropped in price, barely, because of new techniques to correct vision, and because it's considered cosmetic surgery by most all insurance policies.

 

Nothing (Medicaid, Medicare, or any insurance policy) covers boob implants. It's cosmetic and not a necessity, and the same goes for Lasik. Should it cover those? Nope. I don't see your point.

[OldChili]

Oh man, two great consecutive posts by Real Deal. Out of +1's for the day, unfortunately.

Edited March 24, 2010 by OldChili

[EastCoastNiner]

Lasik doesn't cost $600. There are Lasik treatments that still cost $2,000. Not sure where you came up with that. There's a Lasik center where I go in Oklahoma City, and it's $1,900 there.

 

Lasik dropped in price, barely, because of new techniques to correct vision, and because it's considered cosmetic surgery by most all insurance policies.

 

Nothing (Medicaid, Medicare, or any insurance policy) covers boob implants. It's cosmetic and not a necessity, and the same goes for Lasik. Should it cover those? Nope. I don't see your point.

 

Then the people in your area are getting ripped off.

[OldChili]

Then the people in your area are getting ripped off.

A report commissioned by AllAboutVision.com from a leading industry analyst was based on results of a survey of refractive surgeons conducted during the first quarter of 2009. Average LASIK costs were:

 

* $2,140 for all laser-based vision correction procedures (including LASIK) in which a single price is quoted.

* $1,748 for non-customized LASIK using a bladed instrument (microkeratome) and excimer lasers that are not guided by wavefront analysis.

* $2,314 for wavefront-guided LASIK using a laser-created flap.

 

Note that there can be wide variation in what an advertised price will include. Beware of advertising that, for example, promises "LASIK from $499 per eye." Look for the fine print. Typically, only a few select people are actually eligible for LASIK at prices that sound unusually low, because most eyes require more extensive correction or more follow-up after the surgery.

[Real Deal]

Then the people in your area are getting ripped off.

Ah, like I was, from the doctor that saved my eyesight?

 

A city (Bartlesville, Oklahoma) had the doctors that gave me the laser treatments that peeled my retinas. They perform Lasik for $1,000.

 

Oklahoma City's Dean McGee Eye Institute (who saved my eyesight) performed the surgeries needed (vitrectomy, basically). My doctor (who you probably think ripped me off) is affiliated with one that performs Lasik for around $2,000.

 

Do you wear Nike apparel, by any chance? Or...do you shop at Wal-Mart for your shoes? Just curious.