[Completed] NBA's greatest small forward?

[Real Deal]

Be sure to bold your vote, then follow it up with an argument as to why you believe he is deserving of the vote.

[Check my Stats]

Can I say LeBron James?

[YugoRocketsFan]

Can I say LeBron James?

 

Can I agree?

 

LeBron James

[JWaLL]

Lebron James: I'm not really going to explain since I don't see someone challenging him for this one.

[ChosenOne]

Dr. J aka Julius Erving, I dont think Lebron should get this award yet maybe in a couple of years. Erving did more for the sport than Lebron has to this point.

 

Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1993)

NBA Champion (1983)

NBA MVP (1981)

All-NBA First Team (1978,80,81,82,83)

All-NBA Second Team (1977,84)

11-time All Star (1977-87)

All-Star MVP (1977,83)

 

 

Bird would be my second pick:

 

Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1998)

NBA champion (1981,'84,86)

NBA Finals MVP (1984,'86)

NBA MVP (1984,'85,'86)

Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1980-88)

All-NBA Second Team (1990)

All-Defensive Second Team (1982,'83,'84)

NBA Rookie of the Year (1980)

Olympic gold medalist (1992).

Edited March 22, 2010 by ChosenOne

[The Regime]

LeBron isn't the greatest sf of all time just yet, he doesn't even have any rings lol. Larry Bird gets my vote, LeBron averages a near triple double but so did Bird at 24.3 points, 10 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.7 steals, and 0.8 blocks.

 

LeBron is shooting 50.4% from the field, 35% from deep, and 66.7% from the free throw line for his career. Compare this to Bird who shot a fantastic 49.6% from the field, 37.6% from the three-point line, and 88.6% from the free-throw line. Bird pretty much has LeBrons number as far as shooting percentages go.

 

As as I said earlier, championship rings play a big factor in determining the g.o.a.t imo. LeBron will probably contend for a few championships before it's all said and done, but for the time being LeBron has 0 championships to Birds 3.

[Real Deal]

Larry Bird. Greatness does include personal and team accomplishments, and for the same reason Kobe hasn't surpassed Jordan as the greatest two-guard ever, James hasn't surpassed Larry as the greatest small forward.

[Clutch]

im goin with dr.j as well...thats my man - incredible athlete and an incredible talent

 

lebron is GALLOPING towards the top of this list though - believe that!

[YugoRocketsFan]

LeBron has an olympic gold medal, numerous NBA all first teams, all-star game MVPs, MVP,he also won rookie of the year etc. All he needs is that ring

Edited March 22, 2010 by YugoRocketsFan

[Check my Stats]

LeBron isn't the greatest sf of all time just yet, he doesn't even have any rings lol. Larry Bird gets my vote, LeBron averages a near triple double but so did Bird at 24.3 points, 10 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 1.7 steals, and 0.8 blocks.

 

LeBron is shooting 50.4% from the field, 35% from deep, and 66.7% from the free throw line for his career. Compare this to Bird who shot a fantastic 49.6% from the field, 37.6% from the three-point line, and 88.6% from the free-throw line. Bird pretty much has LeBrons number as far as shooting percentages go.

 

As as I said earlier, championship rings play a big factor in determining the g.o.a.t imo. LeBron will probably contend for a few championships before it's all said and done, but for the time being LeBron has 0 championships to Birds 3.

 

You my friend are misinformed. A lot of those stats seem really off, especially LBJ's FT%.

 

Anyways LeBron has broken every record possible up to this point, it is really hard to not say him.

Edited March 22, 2010 by travesy3

[Check my Stats]

Dr. J aka Julius Erving, I dont think Lebron should get this award yet maybe in a couple of years. Erving did more for the sport than Lebron has to this point.

 

Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1993)

NBA Champion (1983)

NBA MVP (1981)

All-NBA First Team (1978,80,81,82,83)

All-NBA Second Team (1977,84)

11-time All Star (1977-87)

All-Star MVP (1977,83)

 

 

Bird would be my second pick:

 

Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1998)

NBA champion (1981,'84,86)

NBA Finals MVP (1984,'86)

NBA MVP (1984,'85,'86)

Nine-time All-NBA First Team (1980-88)

All-NBA Second Team (1990)

All-Defensive Second Team (1982,'83,'84)

NBA Rookie of the Year (1980)

Olympic gold medalist (1992).

 

Can you please expand on the bolded?

[AboveLegit]

In the 1984-85 season, Bird averaged 28.7 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.6 spg, and 1.2 bpg, and did this while shooting 52% from the field and 42% from 3 point range. Those are certainly numbers just as good as Lebron has ever put up. Lebron obviously has the talent to one day be at the top of this list, but at this point, it is still Bird #1, Dr. J. at #2, and finally Baylor, Havlicek, and Barry ahead of Pippen.

 

For anyone to even consider LeBron over Bird, Baylor, Havlicek, Barry, and Pippen is completely ridiculous.

 

My answer is Larry Bird.

Edited March 22, 2010 by AboveLegit

[Poe]

Gunna go with Larry Bird for now. LeBron James' career is still young, and Bird had a much more complete game while LeBron still relies on physical dominance. I'd like to see how Bron copes with age and learns to adjust his game before crowning him the hands down greatest SF of all time.

[deestillballin]

Larry Bird. Greatness does include personal and team accomplishments, and for the same reason Kobe hasn't surpassed Jordan as the greatest two-guard ever, James hasn't surpassed Larry as the greatest small forward.

 

Agreed also Bird is one of the greatest 3point shooters of all ime

 

Larry Bird gets my vote.

[Cleveland's Finest]

LeBron....youngest to 15,000, only guy since Oscar Robertson to average those numbers. Many more MVP awards to come and so are the rings. Don't overcomplicate this. LeBron is right there and there's no reason to not take him.

 

Look at the numbers, they don't lie. He may even be the best point guard in the league right now. He can play any position and is gifted in every facet of the game.

[Legacy]

Larry Bird

 

It's still early to call James the best SF ever.

[AboveLegit]

I cannot believe people are voting for LeBron....wow, just wow..

[EastCoastNiner]

Larry Bird. Greatness does include personal and team accomplishments, and for the same reason Kobe hasn't surpassed Jordan as the greatest two-guard ever, James hasn't surpassed Larry as the greatest small forward.

 

You are contradicting yourself about what you said about Karl Malone and how him having no rings made no difference.

 

There's good reasoning for both views about needing a ring or not needing one to define a player's legacy, but it can't keep changing based upon the player.

Edited March 25, 2010 by EastCoastNiner

[Real Deal]

You are contradicting yourself about what you said about Karl Malone and how him having no rings made no difference.

 

There's good reasoning for both views about needing a ring or not needing one to define a player's legacy, but it can't keep changing based upon the player.

Oh really?

 

My vote goes to Tim Duncan, and it's not even close between him and Garnett.

 

Second would be Malone, followed by Barkley, KG and McHale.

 

Tim is just too good, fundamentally. Offense, defense, just too much to handle for anyone, and his accomplishments, both team and individual, surpass everyone else considered.

 

With that said...

 

Duncan - 8

Garnett - 1

Hill - 1

 

Duncan wins.

Where did I say that? Malone is the better overall player (which is actually debatable), but Duncan is the greatest because of everything else he accomplished, something I've been stating for the last 3-4 years now.

[EastCoastNiner]

Oh really?

 

 

Where did I say that? Malone is the better overall player (which is actually debatable), but Duncan is the greatest because of everything else he accomplished, something I've been stating for the last 3-4 years now.

 

It's not a big deal, but yes you did, and it was during the Michael Jordan debate before the site was hacked I believe when I was comparing the competition that Michael Jordan faced to today's competition, and I never said you would say Karl Malone is better than Tim Duncan, but I know why you referenced him.

[Real Deal]

It's not a big deal, but yes you did, and it was during the Michael Jordan debate before the site was hacked I believe when I was comparing the competition that Michael Jordan faced to today's competition, and I never said you would say Karl Malone is better than Tim Duncan, but I know why you referenced him.

I have ALWAYS said that greatness is defined by more than a player's abilities. In fact, that's why I've put Jordan over Kobe for so long, because Jordan has the MVP's and rings. I think Kobe is an overall better player, but as to who is the greatest, Jordan takes the cake.

 

Same with Duncan and Malone.

 

Same with Magic and Stockton.

 

Same with Bird and LeBron.

 

The list goes on. I think you have me confused with someone else, because there's no way I'd ever say anything opposing that.

[Poe]

I think we need a different term for what you are calling "greatness". Cause there is a definite difference in player ability and player success.

 

Like Kobe vs Jordan. Which player is the better overall player? Kobe (arguably). Who had the most successful career? Jordan.

 

You choose what defines greatness, but I still believe the "greatest" and the "best overall" fall under the same line.

[Check my Stats]

Why don't we just put the guy with the most rings at each position as the greatest at their position since that is all that matters on this forum.

[AboveLegit]

Why don't we just put the guy with the most rings at each position as the greatest at their position since that is all that matters on this forum.

Stop being so narrow minded... It's clearly obvious there's more to it than just rings.

 

There's not one thing you can legitimately say in this type of argument that supports LeBron. Larry Bird has him in almost every statistical category. He's just as good of a defender, better shooter, just as good of a rebounder, close to LeBron when it comes to passing, and he's a better leader.

[Real Deal]

I think we need a different term for what you are calling "greatness". Cause there is a definite difference in player ability and player success.

 

Like Kobe vs Jordan. Which player is the better overall player? Kobe (arguably). Who had the most successful career? Jordan.

 

You choose what defines greatness, but I still believe the "greatest" and the "best overall" fall under the same line.

No, you guys are actually choosing what defines greatness. That's the point of the topic.

 

I'm saying that someone like Magic is greater than Kobe Bryant because of the individual and team accomplishments, but he doesn't touch Kobe once you remove those. Bryant is the better overall player.

 

There's a point where you take one over the other, though. For example, who's the greater player: Garnett or Malone? Well, Malone was easily the better offensive player, and the defensive gap wasn't THAT big. Garnett has a ring. Malone could've had two if Jordan didn't exist. Malone is the greater player because Garnett didn't rake in enough MVP's and individual accomplishments to surpass what Malone did.

 

Greatness isn't defined by just overall playing abilities. Case in point: Steve Nash isn't the player Deron Williams is (Williams has much, much better defense and he runs a team nearly as well), but who's greater? Nash has two MVP's and has led a Suns team deeper into the post-season, with 60-win seasons. Nash is greater, Deron is better overall in terms of skills.