Andrea Bargnani's Hisotrical Season

[Built Ford Tough]

This season we saw Kevin Durant become the youngest player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring.

 

We also saw Steve Nash become the oldest player in NBA history to lead the league in assists.

 

Both of these two had historical seasons, but did anybody else realize that Andrea Bargnani had a historical season of his own north of the border?

 

Andrea Bargnani's 6.2 rebounds per game is the single lowest average in NBA history by a 7 footer who played at least 35 minutes a game. There is literally no 7 footer who put up worse rebounding numbers in at least 35 minutes of action in the history of the NBA than Andrea Bargnani did this season.

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=48&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1947&year_max=2010&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=84&height_max=91&lg_id=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=35&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=lt&c2val=6.2&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=trb_per_g

 

There is the proof.

 

 

I didn't realize that the Raptors were witnessing a historical performance by one of their own this season.

 

How awesome is that?

Edited April 19, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Poe]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=48&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1947&year_max=2010&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=84&height_max=91&lg_id=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=35&c2stat=trb_per_g&c2comp=lt&c2val=6.2&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=trb_per_g

 

There is the proof.

"Sorry, there are no results that match your search."

[Built Ford Tough]

"Sorry, there are no results that match your search."

 

....

 

That is exactly the point.

 

There are no players in the history of the NBA who are above 7 feet tall, played at least 35 minutes a game and averaged lower than the 6.2 rpg that Bargnani did this season.

 

Hence the reason for no matches in the search parameters of:

 

For single seasons, in the regular season, from 1946-47 to 2009-10, from 7-0 to 7-7, requiring Rebounds Per Game <= 6.3 and Minutes Per Game >= 35

 

There are no matches because nobody has ever done it, aside from Andrea Bargnani this season.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Poe]

On a brighter note, Dirk averaged 6.5 rebounds in 35.8 minutes per game at early in his career, and his career average in rebounding went up to 8.5 per 36.7 minutes. So I suppose there may be some hope left for Bargs.

[Poe]

....

 

That is exactly the point.

 

There are no players in the history of the NBA who are above 7 feet tall, played at least 35 minutes a game and averaged lower than the 6.2 rpg that Bargnani did this season.

 

Hence the reason for no matches in the search parameters of:

 

For single seasons, in the regular season, from 1946-47 to 2009-10, from 7-0 to 7-7, requiring Rebounds Per Game <= 6.3 and Minutes Per Game >= 35

 

There are no matches because nobody has ever done it, aside from Andrea Bargnani this season.

My mistake, lol. I was expecting to see a ranking of the worst rebounding numbers for centers who played at least 35 mpg.

[Built Ford Tough]

On a brighter note, Dirk averaged 6.5 rebounds in 35.8 minutes per game at early in his career, and his career average in rebounding went up to 8.5 per 36.7 minutes. So I suppose there may be some hope left for Bargs.

 

Dirk was also 21 years old and in his 2nd season in the NBA, while Bargnani is 24 years old and in his 4th season in the NBA.

 

In Dirk's 4th season in the league he averaged 9.9 a game.

 

Compare that to Toronto this season who had Chris Bosh grab

 

Really though, how many players, aside from Dirk, have noticably increased their rebounding after coming into the league? I'm not talking about making a jump from 8 boards a game in his rookie season to 10 boards a game in his sophomore season after he added 10 pounds of muscle and got accustomed to the league or something like that. Dirk increased his rebounding from 6.5 in his 2nd season to 9.2 in his third season. Off of the top of my head, I can't recall any other similar rebounding jumps that didn't involved somebody playing 10 more minutes a game or something.

 

Bargs is also bigger than Dirk is at 7'0, 250 pounds, and Bargnani is more athletic than Dirk is as well, which makes it even more disapointing.

 

Seeing Dirk's rebounding numbers in his 2nd season being better than Bargnani's in his 4th season, while being smaller and less athletic than Bargs doesn't really give me too much hope.

 

I don't expect Bargs to continue to put up historically bad rebounding numbers or anything, but I think that him grabbing even 8 rebounds a game during a season for his career may even be unrealistic. The guy is just an attrocious and lazy rebounder. Those two do not mix.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Poe]

I think it does. Bargs' rebounding numbers are only from lack of desire, not from lack of ability. He is capable of doing the same thing Dirk did, if he is willing to make the change.

 

 

Also, every player is different. Some take longer to develop than others, but it doesn't make their ceiling any lower.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Poe

[Check my Stats]

I honestly don't think Bargnani has the coordination to go up and grab boards, he only gets the ones that come to him, just watching him put the ball on the deck or get rebounds, it looks so awkward to me... but still, being 7 feet and not getting at least 8 boards in starter minutes is inexcusable. But as usual Triano won't say [expletive] to him, Bargnani will continue to play lackadaisical and will not get benched.

 

Bargnani will be the face of the Raptors next year and literally represents how we play basketball here, it is pathetic and he doesn't even try or even care probably. I even heard Jarret Jack is getting moved, one of the few players on the team who plays with heart getting moved, it is like management wants us to suck.

[Built Ford Tough]

I think it does. Bargs' rebounding numbers are only from lack of desire, not from lack of ability. He is capable of doing the same thing Dirk did, if he is willing to make the change.

 

 

Also, every player is different. Some take longer to develop than others, but it doesn't make their ceiling any lower.

 

Eh, I don't know if I can agree with you on your first point.

 

I used to think that Bargnani's rebounding numbers were because of a lack of desire as well, but after watching him during this season and seeing how completely clueless he is when it comes to rebounding, I think a lot of his shortcomings on the glass is due to a lack of ability as well. I won't get into much detail as travesy basically said what I was going to say in response to your point, but if you watch Bargnani when a shot goes up, he really doesn't look like he knows what to do and just looks awkward.

 

Obviously a lack of effort plays a part in this as well, but I don't think that you can say that it is the only reason for it. I would attribute it to about 70% of lack of talent and 30% lack of effort.

 

 

Out of curiousty though, what do you think Bargnani's ceiling is? I keep on hear you talking about his ceiling and I'm interested in what exactly you think his ceiling is as a player.

[BasX]

Whata beast.

[Check my Stats]

I think Bargnani is as good as he is going to get, he can't create for himself and is basically a 7 foot spot up shooter at this point, who can occasionally put it on the deck lol. He would be perfect in Orlando's system next to Dwight Howard where Dwight gets all the boards and he could just shoot.

[Poe]

Out of curiousty though, what do you think Bargnani's ceiling is? I keep on hear you talking about his ceiling and I'm interested in what exactly you think his ceiling is as a player.

As high as a number 1 pick can be. When looking at a player's potential, you can't just look at what he can do now, but what he's capable of becoming in the future. Of course, right now, he has some difficulties, but it doesn't mean they can't be corrected. Even though he's played professional for a while, he's only 24 years old. He has time to add to his abilities if he's willing to put the work in.

 

What he can do:

-Excellent spot up shooter

-Good pick-n-pop player

-A solid pump-fake

-Has the athleticism to take centers and forwards off the dribble

-Has the strength to finish through contact

-A somewhat decent post-game; can be crafty; good footwork

What he lacks:

-Desire to rebound the basketball

-Energy and focus defensively

-Full awareness on both ends

-Too guard oriented offensively

-A legitimate post threat

-Better work ethic (?)

 

What he's capable of:

-Has the length and athleticism to rebound and block shots

-Has the strength to be a solid post defender

-Has the strength, shooting touch, and footwork to be a great offensive post player

-Has the height and length to shoot over defenders

 

What he can become:

-A big time scorer and a mismatch to almost any defender in the league

-If defenders sag, he shoots a high percentage

-If they play too close, he can drive by them and finish strong at the rim

-If you put a smaller defender, he can shoot over them or post them up

-A scoring presence from all over the court - 3 point, midrange, slashing, and posting up

-At least a decent rebounder that can also give adequate defense

 

 

You know more than me, but to me, he can become a very good player, and he should be looked at as a core piece. Though I do realize potential and accomplishment are two different things, he's only 24, and as long as potential is still there, there is still hope. He has plenty of growing room left.

 

If he is unable to prove his rebounding and defense by next year, it's going to be on the coaching staff to find a way to pull it out of him, because I don't care how "awkward" he is, you can't tell me that a guy with his height, length, strength, and athleticism can't rebound at least 8 boards per 35 minutes. If nothing can truly be done, then trade him for a player that is willing to give effort.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Poe