Raptors Trading 2010 Draft Pick In Attempt To Land Big-Name?

[Built Ford Tough]

I was going to just post this in the draft thread that we have in the Raptors forum, but I figured I would make a new thread so that people who probably don't go into the draft thread would possibly notice it.

 

The Raptors will start working out players in a few weeks.

 

Will they even have a first rounder though? There are whispers that Bryan Colangelo is intrigued with the idea of using Toronto’s pick in order to bring in a big-name talent.

 

If it is someone under contract, a move could be made before the draft in a last-ditch effort to convince Chris Bosh to come back. A sign-and-trade would mean the Raptors make the pick and hope the team involved in the sign-and-trade likes the guy they went with and wants him (since free agency happens after the draft).

 

Of course, the Raptors could make the pick for a team, but that’s risky, since the player they want in the sign-and-trade would have to give his word he will sign with Toronto. That’s very unlikely as all the big free agents want to see their value in the open market before making a decision.

 

Should be an interesting next few months. Maurizio said Monday what everyone already knew – there will be four or five new faces (at least) on the club next year.

 

http://www.torontosun.com/blogs/courtside/2010/05/11/13905831.html

 

Honestly, I don't know what I think about Colangelo trading the draft pick this season.

 

On one hand, I would love to see Colangelo swing a deal that would land the Raptors a legitimate second option wing player like a Monta Ellis or an Andre Iguodala to pair up with a newly re-signed Chris Bosh and obviously the Raptors 13th overall pick in this yeras draft would be involved in that trade. Not only would Ellis or Iguodala give Bosh far and away the most talented teammate that he has ever played with, it would finally give the Raptors a legitimate threat on the wings for the first time since Vince Carter left. If he can make a trade involving something like:

 

DeMar DeRozan/Sonny Weems

Marcus Banks

Reggie Evans

13th overall pick

 

for

 

Andre Iguodala/Monta Ellis

 

and then later on in the summer he is able to dump Jose Calderon for something (anything really, as long as the contract isn't as bad as Calderon's) and then use the MLE to sign a backup center (not sure of who is available) and buy Atlanta's pick to use on Avery Bradley to play behind Jack. A lineup of:

 

PG: Jarrett Jack/Avery Bradley

SG: Andre Iguodala or Monta Ellis/DeMar DeRozan or Sonny Weems

SF: Hedo Turkoglu/DeMar DeRozan or Sonny Weems

PF: Chris Bosh/Amir Johnson

C: Andrea Bargnani/MLE signing

 

should definitely be a playoff team in the East.

 

However, the question is, does this lineup ever have the ability to actually contend in the East, or will it be an Atlanta Hawks situation where they are clearly a playoff team and good enough to win a series, but clearly not good enough to actually contend? This leads me to my concerns about trading the pick away.

 

Does trading away the pick and other assets in exchange for an Andre Iguodala, Monta Ellis or a Devin Harris really make Toronto good enough to be more than just a treadmill team that goes through first or second round exits year after year for the duration of the respective primes of the core players on the team? Or would the Raptors simply be better off blowing it up and trying to rebuild the team, in which case there is nothing more valuable than draft picks and the cheap assets that they represent?

 

There is also the possibility that Colangelo's idea of a big-name player could be somebody like Rip Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince or somebody like that, in which case I would absolutely loathe the idea of trading away the 13th pick for somebody like that as they clearly wouldn't make Toronto any better than they were last season.

 

I really don't know what I would want to see happen. One part of me wants to see the Raptors go for broke and try to swing a huge deal to acquire a legit second option to compliment Bosh, but another part of me just wants to just say goodbye to the Bosh era and rebuild.

 

Whatever happens though, I won't criticize Colangelo for whatever decision he makes, which is saying something because I criticize basically everything that he says.

 

Anyways, enough ranting on my part. I was basically typing all of my thoughts as they came into my head in this thread, so I'll stop here or else I may never stop, haha.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Dash]

Colangelo is a fool if he actually thinks the 13th pick will land him a big name, maybe if DeRozan is in the package but even then its still a longshot that he will get anyone that will be enough to convince Bosh to stay. Although it is a good sign to see he will be working to keep Bosh in town.

 

I think Ellis is out of the question considering the Warriors turned down OJ Mayo + Thabeet for him, but it could happen if management soured on Ellis in the past weeks and are enticed by DeRozan's freakish athleticism. Iggy is interesting though, the Sixers were in negotiations with the Rockets for T-Mac a few months back but the deal fell through. Philly said they would be open to trading him if they could not return to their winning ways, and it appears they haven't. I've seen several Iggy to Toronto deals on several other boards and it is indeed interesting, it makes some sense for both teams but I'm not sure if Philly is willing to pull the trigger.

 

Anyways its like you said, it depends on what exactly is BC's definition of a big name. I don't feel like Toronto has the assets to get an actual 'big name' but DeRozan + 13th pick could be enough to attract a borderline all-star.

 

Also like Toronto taking Bradely with the 25th pick, always liked the guy in college although the Longhorns were a total flop this year.

[BasX]

Honestly, I don't know what I think about Colangelo trading the draft pick this season.

 

On one hand, I would love to see Colangelo swing a deal that would land the Raptors a legitimate second option wing player like a Monta Ellis or an Andre Iguodala to pair up with a newly re-signed Chris Bosh and obviously the Raptors 13th overall pick in this yeras draft would be involved in that trade. Not only would Ellis or Iguodala give Bosh far and away the most talented teammate that he has ever played with, it would finally give the Raptors a legitimate threat on the wings for the first time since Vince Carter left. If he can make a trade involving something like:

 

DeMar DeRozan/Sonny Weems

Marcus Banks

Reggie Evans

13th overall pick

 

for

 

Andre Iguodala/Monta Ellis

 

At first I saw this and I thought you lost your mind. However, after I re-evaluated the player involved it makes complete sense. I'll address the decision between Weems and DeRozan first when it comes to a trade like this. I am more likely to lean towards keeping DeRozan mainly because of age. But I feel mostly it come to the defensive aspect of the game and who will be willing to give a harder effort game in and game out. However, DeRozan will be the more attractive piece in a trade for a boarder-line All-Star because his upside as the 9th pick in the draft. I don't want to give either up but it's something that could be done to get Ellis. I wonder if the Raptors could put Belinelli in the other (plus a late 2nd or nothing) but then Evans back to Philly I dunno. It's a good trade scenario nonetheless.

 

Now the Banks/Evans part makes sense to a team needing cap space for 2011, such as a team looking to add someone like Carmelo. Hell the Raptors could call the Knicks up to create a three way scenario where Knicks get cap relief, Team A gets pick, DeRozan/Weems and a couple things from the Knicks and the Raptors get Ellis/Iggy. Far-fetched I know but those two expiring contract are the best assets BC has. Now personally I'd want Iggy over Ellis because his size but both can score the ball and another option for Bosh makes life easier. Hell maybe it wakes up Hedo.

 

and then later on in the summer he is able to dump Jose Calderon for something (anything really, as long as the contract isn't as bad as Calderon's) and then use the MLE to sign a backup center (not sure of who is available) and buy Atlanta's pick to use on Avery Bradley to play behind Jack. A lineup of:

 

PG: Jarrett Jack/Avery Bradley

SG: Andre Iguodala or Monta Ellis/DeMar DeRozan or Sonny Weems

SF: Hedo Turkoglu/DeMar DeRozan or Sonny Weems

PF: Chris Bosh/Amir Johnson

C: Andrea Bargnani/MLE signing

 

should definitely be a playoff team in the East.

 

I can't argue anything here, I want Jose gone. I still think Hedo could make an impact next year and Andrea is still developing.

 

However, the question is, does this lineup ever have the ability to actually contend in the East, or will it be an Atlanta Hawks situation where they are clearly a playoff team and good enough to win a series, but clearly not good enough to actually contend? This leads me to my concerns about trading the pick away.

 

Does trading away the pick and other assets in exchange for an Andre Iguodala, Monta Ellis or a Devin Harris really make Toronto good enough to be more than just a treadmill team that goes through first or second round exits year after year for the duration of the respective primes of the core players on the team? Or would the Raptors simply be better off blowing it up and trying to rebuild the team, in which case there is nothing more valuable than draft picks and the cheap assets that they represent?

 

There is also the possibility that Colangelo's idea of a big-name player could be somebody like Rip Hamilton or Tayshaun Prince or somebody like that, in which case I would absolutely loathe the idea of trading away the 13th pick for somebody like that as they clearly wouldn't make Toronto any better than they were last season.

 

I really don't know what I would want to see happen. One part of me wants to see the Raptors go for broke and try to swing a huge deal to acquire a legit second option to compliment Bosh, but another part of me just wants to just say goodbye to the Bosh era and rebuild.

 

Whatever happens though, I won't criticize Colangelo for whatever decision he makes, which is saying something because I criticize basically everything that he says.

 

Anyways, enough ranting on my part. I was basically typing all of my thoughts as they came into my head in this thread, so I'll stop here or else I may never stop, haha.

 

The question of competitiveness in the East is tough to read because team #1, #3 and #5 (Talking about seeding in this years playoffs) all have their best players as free agents so question marks are everywhere with those teams. #3 is probably most likely to leave and #1 just made the situation more interesting. Put of me wants the Celtics to win just to see what a cluster [expletive] the free agent period would be with LeBron has a huge question mark. Also, team #4 is getting old and only good for another god run. The Atlantic division is terrible right now and if the Raptors make a move like this in a couple years they could have the second division title in franchise history. Team #2 is the only team that seems to be set for next year and the future.

 

Personally, as a Raptor fan, this is the most difficult time to judge what the team should do. Jose Calderon is not going to be the point guard the team envisioned and their is a complete understanding among fans that him being moved is a necessity. Andrea is such a wild card not because of his scoring but rebounding and defense. Statistics might not show it but his defense did improve. I don't now what the think about Hedo but he get play any worse than last year... right?

 

I don't know what to think anymore. I had more to write but the hockey game is on now

Edited May 12, 2010 by BasX

[Built Ford Tough]

Colangelo is a fool if he actually thinks the 13th pick will land him a big name, maybe if DeRozan is in the package but even then its still a longshot that he will get anyone that will be enough to convince Bosh to stay. Although it is a good sign to see he will be working to keep Bosh in town.

 

Do you actually think that the trade would simply be the 13th overall pick though? I'm sure that the pick would simply be one part of a package that would include other assets such as the expiring contracts of Marcus Banks and Reggie Evans (combining for around $9-10M) and young players on cheap contracts with potential (how much depends on the team making the trade I would imagine) like DeMar DeRozan, Sonny Weems and Marco Belinelli.

 

I don't think that anybody is naive enough to believe that the 13th pick by itself would have anything remotely close to the value of a 2nd option perimeter player, but if expiring contracts and young players are added to that pick, it may be good enough for teams that are looking to clear some cap space like a Philly or a team looking to clear up a possible log jame like a Golden State (especially if they get John Wall or Evan Turner in the draft).

 

I do question if an Andre Iguodala or a Monta Ellis would be enough to entice Bosh into re-signing with the Raptors though.

 

I think Ellis is out of the question considering the Warriors turned down OJ Mayo + Thabeet for him, but it could happen if management soured on Ellis in the past weeks and are enticed by DeRozan's freakish athleticism. Iggy is interesting though, the Sixers were in negotiations with the Rockets for T-Mac a few months back but the deal fell through. Philly said they would be open to trading him if they could not return to their winning ways, and it appears they haven't. I've seen several Iggy to Toronto deals on several other boards and it is indeed interesting, it makes some sense for both teams but I'm not sure if Philly is willing to pull the trigger.

 

I can definitely see Golden State having soured on Monta Ellis considering the emergence of Stephen Curry over the last half of the season along with the possible addition of a John Wall or Evan Turner in this years draft. I think it is pretty clear that Curry and Ellis isn't exactly an ideal long-term backcourt for Golden State, especially once Don Nelson leaves. I could see them liking DeRozan because of his size at the two guard and his game complimenting Curry's more than Ellis does.

 

In regards to Andre Iguodala, it ultimately comes down to whether or not the Sixers want to blow things up and rebuild, or if they think that Iguodala is worth keeping as a part of the future of this team. If they want to completely blow things up and start all over, I can definitely see a package involving DeRozan, draft pick and expiring contracts enticing them to pull the trigger.

 

Another factor though is that you have to assume that if Iguodala is in fact on the table and the Sixers are offering him, there are going to be more teams looking to acquire him than the Raptors, and there is a good possibility that the other teams can offer a better package than the Raptors could.

 

Anyways its like you said, it depends on what exactly is BC's definition of a big name. I don't feel like Toronto has the assets to get an actual 'big name' but DeRozan + 13th pick could be enough to attract a borderline all-star.

 

The thing is that I am almost certain Bryan Colangelo's idea of a big name player is different than my idea of a big name player. Based on recent history, Colangelo's idea of a big name player has been Shawn Marion, Hedo Turkoglu and a broken down Jermaine O'Neal.

 

While I don't think we are talking about a legitimate all-star here, I do think that a borderline all-star like Iguodala or Ellis type of player is reasonable to expect.

 

I just pray that he isn't talking about somebody like Rip Hamilton.

[Built Ford Tough]

I figured I would bump this thread for 2 reasons.

 

Firstly, do you think that the Sixers moving up to 2nd in the draft, which probably means Evan Turner, makes Andre Iguodala any more available? Will the Sixers simply draft Turner and run with Turner at the 2 and Iggy at the 3 (which is probably his best position anyways)? Or will they pass on Turner and go for somebody like DeMarcus Cousins instead?

 

I remember seeing an interview on another forum that made it seem like Stefanski is looking to move Iguodala after moving up in te draft.

 

EDIT: Here is that interview I was talking about that was posted on another forum:

 

http://610wip.cbslocal.com/2010/05/19/ike-and-howard-talk-with-sixers-gm-ed-stefanski-and-the-2nd-overall-pick/

 

Stefanski: I've been saying the wildcard for me is...there's no way Thaddeus Young is gonna have a season like he had last year. If he just plays back to his 2nd year that takes us up to another level too.

 

Interviewer: Well I have Thaddeus as a 3. That means Iguodala is your 2. And with that being the case...Evan Turner is a 2. So do you trade Iguodala before the season or sometime during the season?

 

Stefanski: *laugh* Well I don't know who ya trade, but you do look at every option available. But you are right that Evan Turner, if he's the guy, is a stone cold 2. And Iguodala was more effective at the 3 than at the 2. So what it does is it gives you a lot of options.

 

 

Interviewer: Does it benefit this team to do much this offseason in terms of trades?

 

Stefanski: Talks at length of the teams in the league who have plenty of cap room. Then says after the big boys (LeBron, Wade, Bosh) sign that a lot of teams are going to have money and is it going to burn a hole in their pocket?

 

Interviewer: So Iguodala is the biggest chip that you have...

 

Stefanski: Oh yes. Iguodala is well regarded in the NBA and I said this to you before...his salary people do not have an issue with at all.

 

Stefanski: There's no question a big guy...I think if we were at 6, that would definitely be the case. We'd be looking more for a big. Now that we've moved to 2 that obviously changes things. But we will be bringing the bigs in for workouts as if we were at 6.

 

Stefanski: Evan Turner is extremely solid there's no question about it. Also about him is he's a high character kid and he's a winner. He takes big shots and he doesn't mind taking them.

 

1 minute later: With the 1st pick in the draft and the 2nd pick...I don't think you can even think about need, you go for the best player available.

 

Interviewer: Well you're on your way to a better day with Evan Turner and hopefully you get everything worked out..

 

Other interviewer cuts off: That's a nice backcourt

 

Stefanski: Yeah I mean, you know when I was looking up at that stage and we were going to get the 2nd pick and I see Jrue Holiday cause that kid's going to

 

 

I haven't actually listened to the interview myself as these specific quotes were posted on another forum. The poster who posted them is a pretty good poster though, so I trust that he isn't making up any BS or anything here.

 

 

 

 

Secondly, there are more rumors floating around that the Raptors won't be keeping the pick for theirselves (due to them owing Miami a pick, they technically can't trade the pick but can use the pick on a player and then trade his rights). There is nothing concrete, but if two beat writers for Toronto (Eric Smith and Holly McKenzie), one of which has his paychecks signed by MLSE, are reporting this, you have to think that it is a very realistic possibility.

 

Eric Smith

 

Though I initially thought the Raptors would look to deal this selection, with a little digging I have found out that Toronto cannot trade its pick because there is the potential the Raps could owe Miami that first-round pick next season. You cannot trade first-round picks in consecutive seasons (unless you have an additional pick). Toronto can, however, draft someone and then trade his draft rights. So that's where the "trade" that I speak of could into the equation.

 

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/eric_smith_blog.html

 

Holly McKenzie

 

I don't think they'll keep the pick: RT @DiabloTweets: @stackmack ...who do the Raptors get at lucky number 13?

 

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the pick traded, especially considering Colangelo and MLSE's poor track record of drafting/trading away picks. To be perfectly honest, I would rather see the Raptors just blow it up and rebuild this franchise rather than make a desperate move to appease Bosh because, lets be realistic here, is Chris Bosh really capable of being the best player on a championship team without a 2004 Detroit Pistons type of roster?

 

I'm not going to overreact though and won't throw Colangelo under the bus until I see what kind of player he would bring to the team (if he does in fact move the player he takes with this pick), but I have always been against the trading of draft picks unless you are a contending team, which Toronto is clearly not, so it would have to be a great move to make me happy. I just hate seeing draft picks traded because I strongly believe that you build your team through the draft, not through trades or free agency, especially a team like Toronto.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Built Ford Tough