magicbalala245 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Cavs being 5th or 6th place is a joke. I think Cavs will end up in the 3rd seed in the East when it's all said and done. Top 5 teams in the NBA are 1. Lakers2. Celtics3. Spurs4. Magic5. Cavilers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurbyFX Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 You have them 5th LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 The Suns fans thought the same thing you did, and despite the offense, they really thought Shaq would fit in. But it wasn't the offense that he had problems in, it was his defense. Tony Parker and Tim Duncan literally murdered Shaq and the Suns in points in the paint that first year in the playoffs, so much that I believe they nearly set a record for it over the course of the first three games (Phoenix lost in the first round). And not only that, but no matter the offense, Shaq took the ball out of Nash's hands quite a bit, and it led to Steve actually putting up arguably his worst set of numbers since being in Phoenix, and helping him miss the All-Star Game this past season. You can believe the hype, but Shaq isn't going to add anything to Cleveland's wonderful defense. He will take away from it. And there's a large chance he turns that offense inside-out, and there are two very important opponents (Dwight and Perkins) who won't double-team Shaq as much as they would've had to four years ago. Verajao would defend Duncan because he can defend better. We were the best defensive team in the league last year and Z isn't that good of a defender to begin with. So how is Shaq gonnabe a problem. Mo adjusted well last year. And when I see Shaq score 17 and rebound 8 I just don't see how he "doesn't" fit in with an offense. And if you think shaq is taking the ball out of LeBron's hands, then you gotta be kidding me. Go to youtube and watch the WHOLE press conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted July 11, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Cleveland's defense is more about help defense than the individual. We've known this even when LeBron went to the Finals in 2007. Ilgauskas isn't a great individual defensive player, but his help defense is okay. Shaq's is terrible...and you'll find that out soon enough. Shaq's 17/8 tells me he's a good offensive player, to be able to average 17 at the age of 36/37 years old. That doesn't tell me anything else. What does Zach Randolph's 20/10 tell you? That he fits into the Clippers' offense? If Shaq doesn't take the ball out of LeBron's hands, what's the point of having him? He's supposed to be there to draw double teams. That has been Shaq's forte most of his career. Problem is, he only does that against guys like Joakim Noah and Andris Biedrins, guys that don't have the strength or body weight to contain him. Your two biggest rivals in the East, Boston and Orlando, have two guys that can contain Shaq without help, and the regular season doesn't mean much at all, as we saw over a month ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 You can believe the hype, but Shaq isn't going to add anything to Cleveland's wonderful defense. He will take away from it. And there's a large chance he turns that offense inside-out, and there are two very important opponents (Dwight and Perkins) who won't double-team Shaq as much as they would've had to four years ago.For the most part I agree with your assessment, but I'd like to add that while Shaq is a pretty poor defender now, he's better than the immobile stiff that is Ilgauskas. I still foresee problems defending the PNR, but their prospects against Orlando have improved vastly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I think Orlando clearly got better today with the signing of Brandon Bass. He's exactly what they need next to Dwight IMO. Now Pietrus can come off the bench and Shard can play the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Cavs being 5th or 6th place is a joke. I think Cavs will end up in the 3rd seed in the East when it's all said and done. Top 5 teams in the NBA are 1. Lakers2. Celtics3. Spurs4. Magic5. Cavilers Yet, you put the 5th yourself. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 1.Celtics2. Lakers3. Spurs4. Magic5. Nuggets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Tzu Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'd say they are the thth best in the league, this season. 1. Lakers2. Celtics3. Spurs4. Magic5. Cavs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeroadkill Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Not every teams gonna win a ring lmao. I just don't see ow the Cavs got worse in the offseason. We were 2 wins away from the finals. Not like we got swept in the first round. It's amazing how people are so quick to suddenly take us out of the top 5. It amuses me that a team that loses nothing is suddenly put to the bottom. And you guys think the Magic got better? The Spurs and Celts will have injury troubles with their age and SA lost depth with their trade. If you think the Cavs are not in the top 5 you might as well ban yourself from this forum because you are an idiot. That's how serious I am about this pathetic assumption. im not saying cavs got [expletive]ter im saying celts lakers spurs have gotten better and pushed them selves above the rest meaning magic cavs and nuggets. and yes i think nuggets would beat cavs in a series magic i think they got slightly worse not much of a difference there a 4/5/6 team because i think magic and cavs are very much equal as well as nuggets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) 1.Celtics2. Lakers3. Spurs4. Magic5. Nuggets Remember that post of yours when the season ends lmao. I guess I can only like that once again we're being looked down on. Cav writers are calling the Shaq deal the first sure thing in awhile. You think management is stupid enough to not to what they're gonna get from him? The Larry Hughes deal was risky. The Mo Williams deal was risky. In the LeBron era, this is the surest move we've made. But yet again we still aren't good enough. But I'm all for proving it again this year. Lemme guess..Flash...you probably think we'll finish with under 50 wins and Detroit will overtake us? The Nuggets beat two mediocre teams to advance and the Lakers laziness allowed them to win 2 games. They aren't elite. The Cavs are on of 4 elite organizations right now. (Boston, Cleveland, LA, and San Antonio) Of any team in the league, we have the longest current streak of advancing past the 1st round and I see no difference next season. We'll make the ECF and won't blow any home games and we will win the title because Shaq gives us the FIRST big force inside. Z was never a big force. He was a sharpshooter and he never was a presence in the paint. Shaq only adds presence to the paint. And I'm sure he'll set picks and let LeBron occupy the court when he drives. Shaq isn't stupid enough to ruin this franchise because he just isn't and Cavs management knows him. Edited July 11, 2009 by Cleveland's Finest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'd say they are the thth best in the league, this season. 1. Lakers2. Celtics3. Spurs4. Magic5. Cavs Wait... they're the WHAT best in the league? Hahaha. But yeah that is how I would rank the top 5 teams exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Spidey Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 shaq wont do jack [expletive] for cleveland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moeroadkill Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 wait are u guys ranking these teams on their wins they get? or.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Remember that post of yours when the season ends lmao. I guess I can only like that once again we're being looked down on. Cav writers are calling the Shaq deal the first sure thing in awhile. You think management is stupid enough to not to what they're gonna get from him? The Larry Hughes deal was risky. The Mo Williams deal was risky. In the LeBron era, this is the surest move we've made. But yet again we still aren't good enough. But I'm all for proving it again this year. Lemme guess..Flash...you probably think we'll finish with under 50 wins and Detroit will overtake us? The Nuggets beat two mediocre teams to advance and the Lakers laziness allowed them to win 2 games. They aren't elite. The Cavs are on of 4 elite organizations right now. (Boston, Cleveland, LA, and San Antonio) Of any team in the league, we have the longest current streak of advancing past the 1st round and I see no difference next season. We'll make the ECF and won't blow any home games and we will win the title because Shaq gives us the FIRST big force inside. Z was never a big force. He was a sharpshooter and he never was a presence in the paint. Shaq only adds presence to the paint. And I'm sure he'll set picks and let LeBron occupy the court when he drives. Shaq isn't stupid enough to ruin this franchise because he just isn't and Cavs management knows him. What are the Cav writers going to say? That he's going to suck? The Nuggets made it just as far as the Cavs last time I checked and are only losing Dahntay Jones. Cleveland will get their wins but as we've seen before they can get 66 and go home empty handed. The Lakers didn't win as many games as the Cavs but they cant home with the big prize. You're vastly overrating Shaq at this point in his career. He isn't the force he once was and is a liability on defense. Dwight made him look stupid this year. This is the same management team that just signed Anderson Verejao to a ridiculous undeserved contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Apparently the Pistons, Bulls, and Heat are favorites for homecourt advantage and the Cavs are now a 5-8 seed team from reading the absurd posts in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Apparently the Pistons, Bulls, and Heat are favorites for homecourt advantage and the Cavs are now a 5-8 seed team from reading the absurd posts in this thread. If you were paying attention only one person said those teams would be better. They're the third best team in the East IMO. The Bass signing definitely puts Orlando ahead of them in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 If you were paying attention only one person said those teams would be better. They're the third best team in the East IMO. The Bass signing definitely puts Orlando ahead of them in my opinion. Agree 100%. I was skeptical with just the addition of VC to the roster, but now that they've added Bass, a very underrated offensive forward, I rank them above the Cavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) So Orlando loses Gortat and Battie...gains Bass and Ryan Anderson. They lose Hedo.....gain VC. They lose Rafer Alston and Courtney Lee....gain who? The Cavs lose Ben Wallace....gain Shaq. They lose Sasha....gain Danny Green and Anthony Parker. That's where I'm lost. Tell me what makes the Cavs somehow worse than last season all the sudden. Also...Cleveland has just as good if not a better frontcourt than Orlando. We have Z who can shoot the ball. Name a big for Orlando who can do that. Andy, Shaq, and Z are every type of big man wrapped into a rotation. Edited July 11, 2009 by Cleveland's Finest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Agree 100%. I was skeptical with just the addition of VC to the roster, but now that they've added Bass, a very underrated offensive forward, I rank them above the Cavs. Not just that, but he's a big body inside who will go hard every minute and rebound as well. LOVE this signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 So Orlando loses Gortat and Battie...gains Bass and Ryan Anderson. They lose Hedo.....gain VC. They lose Rafer Alston and Courtney Lee....gain who? The Cavs lose Ben Wallace....gain Shaq. They lose Sasha....gain Danny Green and Anthony Parker. That's where I'm lost. Tell me what makes the Cavs somehow worse than last season all the sudden. The Magic received upgrades despite losing Hedo. They added weapons despite losing a few previous weapons. They didn't downgrade at all. For the Cavs, the acquisition of Shaq forces them to run an entire different offense. Their once up-tempo offense will now be slowed down with Shaq's presence. Anthony Parker is definitely going to help a lot, but to what extent we don't know yet. He is just one role player. Losing Rafer Alston and Courtney Lee is not as bad as it seems. With Jameer coming back at full strength, they still have Anthony Johnson at the backup point, and he is a very solid backup IMO. VC is taking the place of Courtney Lee, and I call that an improvement in all aspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 VC replaces Lee? Than who replaces Hedo..... Cavs didn't lose weapons. Sasha and Ben weren't weapons. We gained an inside presence, championship background, and power in Shaq. We gained depth, length, and shooting in Parker. Sasha was never consistent. Looking at Parker's long career in the game, I think he deserves atleast the belief that he'll produce. Orlando lost the weapons that got them past Cleveland. How do the Cavs run a different offense? Were we a fast paced team before? No....Now when LeBron dribbles for 20 seconds and then shooting...he can rather pass to Shaq. Imo...the Cavs have the two most dominant forces in NBA history. LeBron and Shaq are the strongest and most impactful players on the court and therefore command double teams. Boobie, Wally, Parer, West, Z, and Mo will shoot when the double comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 So Orlando loses Gortat and Battie...gains Bass and Ryan Anderson. They lose Hedo.....gain VC. They lose Rafer Alston and Courtney Lee....gain who? The Cavs lose Ben Wallace....gain Shaq. They lose Sasha....gain Danny Green and Anthony Parker. That's where I'm lost. Tell me what makes the Cavs somehow worse than last season all the sudden. Also...Cleveland has just as good if not a better frontcourt than Orlando. We have Z who can shoot the ball. Name a big for Orlando who can do that. Andy, Shaq, and Z are every type of big man wrapped into a rotation. The Magic's pick and roll that was so lethal against the Cavs will be even better because now it's Vince Carter instead of Hedo running the pick and roll with Dwight and because Shaq's lack of defensive ability severely hurts Cleveland's pick and roll defense. Rashard Lewis is like 6'11 and he can shoot the lights out as you saw in the ECF. Let's not forget also, Dwight Howard will be a year older and his game is only going to improve and now you throw in a healthy Jameer Nelson and this team is going to be really really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 VC replaces Lee? Than who replaces Hedo..... Cavs didn't lose weapons. Sasha and Ben weren't weapons. We gained an inside presence, championship background, and power in Shaq. We gained depth, length, and shooting in Parker. Sasha was never consistent. Looking at Parker's long career in the game, I think he deserves atleast the belief that he'll produce. Orlando lost the weapons that got them past Cleveland. How do the Cavs run a different offense? Were we a fast paced team before? No....Now when LeBron dribbles for 20 seconds and then shooting...he can rather pass to Shaq. Imo...the Cavs have the two most dominant forces in NBA history. LeBron and Shaq are the strongest and most impactful players on the court and therefore command double teams. Boobie, Wally, Parer, West, Z, and Mo will shoot when the double comes. Rashard replaces Hedo at the 3, and Bass might start at the 4. I didn't say the Cavs lost weapons, I said the Magic replaced their weapons with new ones. There is no telling whether Shaq will affect the Cavs positively or negatively. He is one of few players that completely alters the way a team runs their offense. Parker is the one addition who I know will help you guys head in the direction you're looking towards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 LeBron will be a year older and Mo will have had a year of experience with us under his belt. His stats were just on par with Jameer. Andy can help defend the pick and roll. I highly doubt Mike Brown won't go over how to defend a pick and roll after what happened in the playoffs. And we got anthony Parker to help defend the size in Lewis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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