Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 VC replaces Lee? Than who replaces Hedo..... Cavs didn't lose weapons. Sasha and Ben weren't weapons. We gained an inside presence, championship background, and power in Shaq. We gained depth, length, and shooting in Parker. Sasha was never consistent. Looking at Parker's long career in the game, I think he deserves atleast the belief that he'll produce. Orlando lost the weapons that got them past Cleveland. How do the Cavs run a different offense? Were we a fast paced team before? No....Now when LeBron dribbles for 20 seconds and then shooting...he can rather pass to Shaq. Imo...the Cavs have the two most dominant forces in NBA history. LeBron and Shaq are the strongest and most impactful players on the court and therefore command double teams. Boobie, Wally, Parer, West, Z, and Mo will shoot when the double comes. Shaq isn't getting double teamed against Dwight Howard or Kendrick Perkins. What you aren't understanding is that Shaq isn't the player he was before. Your concept of Cleveland's offense is totally off right now and yes their offense has to change with Shaq now in the lane. Orlando might have lost Hedo but they got Vince Carter. He's one of those guys that when motivated can be a force and now he's in the situation he's always wanted. Expect a huge year from VC. Also, what has LeBron done to be called the most dominant player? Nothing at all so stop with the blatant homerism. Ever heard of Wilt Chamberlain? MICHAEL JORDAN? Oh wait...you probably think LeBron is already better than Mike nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) So expect a huge year from Vince because the offense doesn't change. But expect Shaq, who made the all-star team and got 3rd all team NBA honors (Vince didn't get anything close to that last year), to score 8 ppg and rebound 5 a game and suddenly drop off because you don't think they'll learn to use him effectively. And you're telling me Shaq won't be motivated like VC? He's gotta show up Dwight this year, get his fifth title before Tim and Kobe, show the doubters like you he can still play, and win a ring for the king. I guess people like you will keep him even more motivated He'll never lose his size and for that he'll be just as good. Lol...I think i've lost my whole rep in this thread. Amazing how a team can lose so much respect. Guess it's the LeBron haters ganging up. Edited July 11, 2009 by Cleveland's Finest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 So expect a huge year from Vince because the offense doesn't change. But expect Shaq, who made the all-star team and got 3rd all team NBA honors (Vince didn't get anything close to that last year), to score 8 ppg and rebound 5 a game and suddenly drop off because you don't think they'll learn to use him effectively. And you're telling me Shaq won't be motivated like VC? He's gotta show up Dwight this year, get his fifth title before Tim and Kobe, show the doubters like you he can still play, and win a ring for the king. I guess people like you will keep him even more motivated He'll never lose his size and for that he'll be just as good. Lol...I think i've lost my whole rep in this thread. Amazing how a team can lose so much respect. Guess it's the LeBron haters ganging up. The offense does change..now the pick and roll is more effective making them better. Not only that but it will also change because now Orlando has a wing that can create his own shot off the dribble. How many great center are there honestly? He should be getting those honors. It's much harder for a guy like VC who is getting up in age in a league dominated by swingmen. Shaq won't show up Dwight, because he can't. Dwight is better than him stop being a fricken homer. Your blatant homerism and overrating of Shaq isn't making you look any better either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 How can you overrate Shaq? Look at him this past year. I just don't see how a huge drop off can be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 How can you overrate Shaq? Look at him this past year. I just don't see how a huge drop off can be expected. Uhh..the Shaq I saw this year wasn't all that magnificent. If any offense is going to change it will be Cleveland's. Not to mention your defense will take a hit. It's a fact and there's nothing you can say to prove otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deestillballin Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) mavericks >>>>>> the entire NBA. yep. i can be bias to like everyone else in this thread Fixed it for you mike . Now going on Topic. How the hell can you say the Cavs are overrated. There isnt one team in the NBA that had all the hype and choked at the end. If you can name ONE that didnt. I think the Cavs will have the number 1 seed in the NBA again, HCA throughout the playoffs Edited July 11, 2009 by deestillballin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Lakers Celtics (cmon they got Sheed, dont tell me they got bench problems)Spurs (Mcdeyess doesnt scare me and they lost Bowen, no more shutting down superstar wing players)Magic (if VC can be a role player)Cavs (Lebron) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Lakers Celtics (cmon they got Sheed, dont tell me they got bench problems)Spurs (Mcdeyess doesnt scare me and they lost Bowen, no more shutting down superstar wing players)Magic (if VC can be a role player)Cavs (Lebron) So you provided a reason for 4 of those teams why they belong in the top 5, but all you did was diss the Spurs despite ranking them third lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Uhh..the Shaq I saw this year wasn't all that magnificent. If any offense is going to change it will be Cleveland's. Not to mention your defense will take a hit. It's a fact and there's nothing you can say to prove otherwise.A lot said our defense would take a hit when we got Mo last year. Now we have a bigger man to guard the teams with bigger men. He's also a quality blocker. And a good defensive rebounder. He does have defensive strength to ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 So you provided a reason for 4 of those teams why they belong in the top 5, but all you did was diss the Spurs despite ranking them third lol...Welllll some people (like B ) have them ranked 2nd, I just dont agree with that. The Smelltics gotta be up there, remember their record before KG got hurt, + Sheed now their ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) I can agree with kingfish's top 5. He wasn't ignorant enough to put Denver over Cleveland. Orlando and Cleveland are debatable so I can accept those. Edited July 12, 2009 by Cleveland's Finest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I can agree with kingfish's top 5. He was ignorant enough to put Denver over Cleveland. Orlando and Cleveland are debatable so I can accept those.Uhh I didnt put Denver over Cleveland!! Denver is too young and not talented enough, Birdman and KMart should be in the WWE not NBA. Cleveland getting Shaq does not match up with the other improvements of the league, so thats why they arent higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Built Ford Tough Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Lakers Celtics (cmon they got Sheed, dont tell me they got bench problems)Spurs (Mcdeyess doesnt scare me and they lost Bowen, no more shutting down superstar wing players)Magic (if VC can be a role player)Cavs (Lebron) Just thought that I would point out that Bruce Bowen wasn't shutting anybody down last season. Age has started to catch up to him and he is not the defender that he used to be. From what I saw of Bowen last season, I wouldn't say that he was anything better than an average defender. I honestly think that Richard Jefferson will be able to make up for the loss of Bowen on the defensive end as long as Jefferson commits to playing defense like he did when he was with the Nets during their best years at the beginning of the decade. The Jefferson trade might be the best move of the offseason (or at least the most underrated) in my opinion. It gives the Spurs another offensive threat so that they no longer have to just rely on the big three and it gives them an athletic swing man that can create his own shot off of the bounce which is something that they were desperately lacking last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren2ThaG Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 It'z not about overall record, its about best success to the Championship and it's between LA and Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 It'z not about overall record, its about best success to the Championship and it's between LA and Boston. I agree. Take your 66 wins if you want but its nothing to brag about if you don't have a ring much less make it to the finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artesticle Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 1a) Lakers1b) Celtics3) Spurs4) Cavaliers5) Magic Lakers and Celtics are pretty much tied IMO. Spurs and Cavs pretty much equal, but I'll give the Spurs the edge because they know how to win, and I love the additions they've made in the offseason. Cavs are right behind them in my book, very close. Magic are fifth IMO. Not really feeling what they did this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I edited my post kingfish. And Anderson Verajao is our best pick and roll defender. Ever think he'll be defending it? He can play center and is a flexible big man with many different matchup capabilities. Shaq didn't have any back up big men that good in Pheonix defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldChili Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I don't see why there would be any debate; Cleveland is definitely a top 5 team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmelamare Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 No they are not. LeBron James is gonna have a hard time driving to the hoop now that the Big Cactus is clogging the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldChili Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 No they are not. LeBron James is gonna have a hard time driving to the hoop now that the Big Cactus is clogging the paint.Shaq clogging the paint sure worked out great for Wade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcstarheel Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Shaq in Miami was three years ago. You can't say that nothing has changed as far as his effectiveness these past few years. His output and mobility will steadily decline this year as it has recently. Not to mention he is due for another 50 game season. He hasn't put together a string of two straight seasons of 70 games since the first year of this decade. We're now in the last year of this decade. What many aren't realizing is that Z really spread the floor for LeBron because he was an outside threat. He readily hit those corner threes or those 20' jumpers. He was 15-39 last year, which was huge for them at key points. I still believe they are a top 5 team, but I think they are just the 5th best. Lakers - got Artest, will have Bynum for the whole year (hopefully), and we should be able to retain OdomCeltics - will be healthy, and 'Sheed's perimeter offensive game and his rebounding effectiveness will be big...he gives them even more of an edgy teamSpurs - huge pickups in McDyess and Jefferson, PLUS a healthy ManuMagic - Vince is an all-around threat and Bass is a BIG pickup, and they'll have Jameer all year and won't have Rafer suckingCavaliers - picked up Shaq, will still win over 60, but it'll be tough for them once again See the theme of this list? All of the first four teams had a major player sit injured for at least 25 games, with almost all of them in the latter half of the season and into the 'offs. Cavs were pretty injury-free down the wire. They are due for the injury bug to hit when it counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldChili Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Sure he's declining, but with LeBron continuing to improve his jumper and with Shaq as a post threat, they'll be a very dangerous team next year. It's not like they lost Z, they still have him. Adjustments can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcstarheel Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Sure he's declining, but with LeBron continuing to improve his jumper and with Shaq as a post threat, they'll be a very dangerous team next year. It's not like they lost Z, they still have him. Adjustments can be made.Z played 27 MPG this past year. You think he's going to be as effective with his minutes being down a third? I don't see it. He had to work in that flow to be effective from the perimeter. Yes adjustments can be made, but I see the Cavs having to adjust more to Shaq than the other four teams will be adjusting to their acquisitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted July 15, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Shaq isn't going to be a post threat without the ball. He's not a spot-up shooter that LeBron can work into the offense by drawing doubles. The more LeBron has to rely on his jumper, the harder it will be for Shaq to score...and, obviously, LeBron will find it tougher. The 2006 Shaq was still drawing doubles. I can't believe you guys believe O'Neal can make LeBron a better player (or vice-versa) after seeing how terrible Nash had it last year, in the run and gun OR in the half-court offense they attempted to play. Nothing worked, even with Amare on the court, along with Richardson and Hill, all guys who can score the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) See the theme of this list? All of the first four teams had a major player sit injured for at least 25 games, with almost all of them in the latter half of the season and into the 'offs. Cavs were pretty injury-free down the wire. They are due for the injury bug to hit when it counts. We had starters injured all season. Big Ben lost everything when 2009 came around and literally we lost a player. JJ Hickson was injured so we could play him to end the year. He could've been our Courtny Lee. Delonte, Andy, and Z were injured for various portions of the year. LeBron had a freaking tumor even. Does LeBron have to go down for 50 games for it to be fair? Edited July 15, 2009 by Cleveland's Finest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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