Chris Bosh Releases Wish List; Decison Hinges On Where LeBron James Signs?

[Built Ford Tough]

On paper that is one of the sickest teams we've seen recently, honestly the deal should be Calderon+Bosh for Bynum+Fisher (waived then signed back), that should be pretty close to working. If we move Bosh we have to try and unload one of these contracts lol.

 

I still don't know if Bosh is interested in the Lakers though, if he wants to win a title it is the obvious choice, but he has talked about wanting to be the man, in LA he would not be averaging 20 points anymore.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think you are allowed to package players together in a sign and trade scenario. If you are signing and trading a player, I think that he has to be the only player involved in the deal.

 

Like I said, I could be wrong, but I have heard that on more than one occasion.

 

As for your second point, one thing that the Lakers have going for them is that while Bosh would be the 2nd/3rd option behind Kobe and possibly Gasol, both Gasol and Kobe are in their 30's and who may star to see a bit of a decline in their player over the next few years. If Bosh goes there, he may be the 2nd or 3rd option for two or three years, but after that, the Lakers could very well become his team. There is nothing that Bosh would love more than to be the number one option on a team like the Lakers.

 

Being the man... lol. He's a second rate player AT BEST, if he honestly thinks he can win as a #1 option... he is one crazy [expletive] mother [expletive]er and a greedy one at that.

 

Second rate player at best?

 

I agree that Bosh is not a legitimate franchise player and number one option on a championship team, but to say that he is a second rate player at best is just as laughable as somebody thinking that he is a legit franchise player.

 

How many second options in the NBA are better than Bosh?

[Built Ford Tough]

There has been a lot of speculation among Raptors analysts/writers that if Bosh were to move in a sign and trade it would involve more than just Toronto and the team Bosh is going to, so with that in mind, is this a realistic three team trade scenario involving Bosh going to Chicago?

 

To Chicago: Chris Bosh

To Toronto: Al Jefferson

To Minnesota: Luol Deng

 

Now I haven't looked at anything salary related, but I imagine that it would work financially with the Bulls and Wolves both having cap room to absorb any extra salary (if there is any in the first place, like I said, I haven't looked at the numbers).

 

Anyways, here are my reasoning behind this for each team:

 

Minnesota

 

It is no secret that the Wolves aren't too fond of the Jefferson/Love frontcourt and are looking to move Jefferson in order to land a wing player. Since they fell to 4 in the draft and lost out on Evan Turner, and if they are unable to sign somebody like Rudy Gay, who I don't think will really consider the Wolves in the firstplace, the only option that they would have to address their need for a wing player would be through a trade.

 

They can use the 4th pick on DeMarcus Cousins (assuming Jersey drafts Favors), who will fit very nicely alongside Kevin Love's perimeter skills and passing. This gives them a new lineup of:

 

C: DeMarcus Cousins

PF: Kevin Love

SF: Luol Deng

SG: Corey Brewer

PG: Jonny Flynn (Rubio when/if he comes over)

 

Chicago

 

It is pretty clear why Chicago makes this trade. They needs some more offense, especially somebody that doesn't rely on jump shots to get his points. Bosh not only addresses the need of another scorer to compliment Rose, he also fills in the need of a power forward, which has eluded the Bulls for what seems like an enternity. Bosh would be a good compliment to Noah's hustle/energy style of play, and him and Rose would be one of the better point guard/power forward duos in the NBA. There is also the possibility of LeBron James coming to Chicago and form another potential dynasty in Chicago.

 

New lineup would look like:

 

C: Joakim Noah

PF: Chris Bosh

SF: James Johnson (or LeBron James or another free agent signing)

SG: Kirk Hinrich

PG: Derrick Rose

 

Toronto

 

I think it is a pretty fair assumption that the likelyhood of Chris Bosh retruning to Toronto next season is marginal at best. It appears like Toronto is looking to acquire a big man in whatever sign and trade they do, so they will look to acquire the best big man possible. Andrew Bynum is my personal preference, but who knows how interested the Lakers would be in making a move of that magnitude after making it to 3 straight NBA Finals, and possibly winning 2 in a row.

 

With that said, the Raptors turn their attention to another prep-to-pro big man in Al Jefferson. Jefferson, while not being a good defensive player, has a skillset that, on paper, will compliment Andrea Bargnani very well. Jefferson is about as good of a replacement that you can ask for when losing somebody like Chris Bosh in a sign and trade.

 

Raptors new lineup:

 

C: Al Jefferson

PF: Andrea Bargnani

SF: Hedo Turkoglu

SG: DeMar DeRozan

PG: Jarrett Jack

 

 

 

Thoughts on this? I like I'll post it in the main forum as well, if there isn't a lot of discussion on it here.

 

I'm mainly just throwing an idea out there to get some discussion. Not sure how thrilled the other teams would be about this, and even not sure what the Raptors would think about this.

[Flash]

Seems like a good deal for all 3 teams. I could definitely see that happening.

[Poe]

The only team that trade makes sense for is Chicago, since they need an offensive low-post presence, and Bosh is one of the best.

 

Al Jefferson is not the answer for Toronto because they need a center that rebounds and most of all, plays defense. The defensive combination of Bargnani and Jefferson could potentially be even worse than Bargs and Bosh.

 

Minnesota should look to keep Al Jefferson because the size combination of Milicic and Al J can be lethal heading forward. If I was Minnesota, I'd look to package Love and Flynn to get Turner. I can see a future line up of Rubio - Turner - Gomes - Jefferson - Milicic (perhaps they can look for a replacement for Gomes later on, but overall, I think that line up has potential, more potential than Flynn/Rubio - Brewer - Deng - Love - Cousins).

[Built Ford Tough]

Al Jefferson is not the answer for Toronto because they need a center that rebounds and most of all, plays defense. The defensive combination of Bargnani and Jefferson could potentially be even worse than Bargs and Bosh.

 

So then, I imagine that you think Andrew Bynum is not the answer for Toronto eithe, right?

 

Bynum is a better defender than Jefferson, but he is no stud there either. His immense size and length provide an intimidating presence on the defensive end of the floor, but even then, he doesn't block many shots despite his size. His length plays a factor in his man defense, but, again, he isn't a great man defender either.

 

He is a superior defender than Al Jefferson, that is for sure, but he isn't that good of a defender in his own right, at least that is the impression I have come away with after watching him over the past 3 years.

 

As far as rebounding, Jefferson is the superior rebounder. His rebounding numbers were down this season, but he still pulled down 9 boards a game even with Kevin Love grabbing 11 a game (much like Bynum having to fight with Gasol for boards, although Bynum grabbed 8 a season). Prior to this season Jefferson had three staright 11 rebound per game seasons.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would obviously rather the Raptors have Bynum over Jefferson, and I don't exactly think that Jefferson is the answer either, but considering the sign and trade options out there, I don't think that there would be many better options than a 25 year old big man who is capable of putting up 20/10 while being a legitimate low post presence.

 

It may not be an ideal situation long term, but it is sure a hell of a lot better than acquiring Michael Beasley or David Lee and running with a Beasley or Lee/Bargnani frontcourt which would be even worse than a Jefferson/Bargnani frontcourt would be.

 

 

I'm not going to comment on the Minnesota part of your post because, to be perfectly honest, I don't follow them enough to make a legitimate response and I'm not going to pretend to know something when I am really just pulling something out of my [expletive].

 

All I know is that the Wolves are looking to add a small forward to their roster and feel that Jefferson and Love can't co-exist. In this trade they manage to get that small forward that they need, and Deng is a good small forward and may be more valuable than a Rudy Gay depending on the contracts while solving the Jefferson/Love dilemma that they have. Maybe what I have read isn't true or things have changed though.

 

Like I said, I'm just going off of what I have read.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Poe]

Well, at least we agree Bynum > Jefferson for the Raptors.

 

What I was originally pointing out was that the Raptors should look for a big that compliments Bargnani's game, not necessarily that Jefferson doesn't have any qualities that fit (like rebounding). What the Raptors need in general is a player who can cover Bargnani's back with rebounding and defense, much like what Erick Dampier does for Dirk and the Mavericks (not that he's the prime example, but that's his job in general for Dallas and they've been a successful team with him as their starting center).

 

There's no doubt that Jefferson can rebound, but he's a power forward that lacks the length and versatility to play and defend the center position. That's the main reason why Love and Jefferson can't mesh, because they are both pure power forwards and neither can play small forward or center very well. With Bargnani there may be similar problems. Though Bargnani can defend centers to an extent, the biggest issue is that neither provide that defensive post presence that teams need to be successful. Players will feel just as comfortable driving into the paint with a Jefferson-Bargnani combo as Bosh-Bargnani.

 

On the other hand, Bynum is a true center. He's long and strong, and though he doesn't quite have a defensive reputation, he's at least a presence. He's a back-to-the-basket player offensively which will off-set Bargnani's perimeter game, while Jefferson is a bit more of a face-up player.

 

 

Simply put, Jefferson is a downgrade to Bosh. You're going to come out with worse than what you started with. Though Bynum has yet to reach Bosh talent-wise, he'll at least fill in a major hole for the Raptors, and has a high chance of also becoming a very special player.

[Check my Stats]

It isn't even about 'the answer', it is about the best and most valuable package we can salvage, you act as though we have any sort of leverage, Poe.

 

I like the deal for Bulls and Raptors but I don't see the Wolves doing it unless it is sweetened a bit, we might have to throw our lotto in there or something like that or the Bulls through one of those young guys they have.

 

Honestly if we come out of this situation with CB4 with a core player like Jefferson, Bynum or anyone like that, I am going to be extremely happy.

 

Honestly you are making it sound like we would be better off getting Varajeao for Bosh than Bynum or Jefferson, simply because he compliments Bargnani better, which is something I honestly do not even agree with. Bosh and Bargnani don't compliment one another because both are content launching jumpers, with a big man like Bynum or Jefferson we will have a legitimate back to the basket presence, something Chris is not. While neither of the two are great defenders they are better lane intimidators than Chris Bosh and honestly are an upgrade to Bosh in the 'compliment to Bargnani' department.

Edited May 24, 2010 by travesy3

[Poe]

I wouldn't even consider Jefferson. It's not always about the talent, it's about having the right players. O'Neal-Bosh didn't work, and Bargnani-Bosh didn't work. What makes you think Jefferson-Bargnani is going to work?

[Check my Stats]

So are you suggesting that trading Bosh for someone like Varejao is better than Bynum or Jefferson simply because he compliments Bargnani better?

[Poe]

So are you suggesting that trading Bosh for someone like Varejao is better than Bynum or Jefferson simply because he compliments Bargnani better?

No, Varejao isn't enough value in return. I'm suggesting a trade that will push the Raptors in the right direction. There are plenty of options to choose from other than Jefferson, especially when you got a top 5 PF on the block. I suggest getting players that fit the Raptor puzzle, not big a piece that will fill up the board but won't connect with anything.

 

Narrowing down to the 5 teams on Bosh's "wish list", I'd go after either Noah (along with another player like Hinrich, and a couple first rounders as well) or Bynum (along with another player if more value can be squeezed out), and that's it. Lee and Beasley are talented but won't fit what the Raptors need.

[Klashnekoff]

Wow so i was right huh, Chris Bosh really is a moron.

 

He just excludes Dallas, Houston and New Jersey. This guy really wants to never win a championship. lmao.

[Flash]

Wow so i was right huh, Chris Bosh really is a moron.

 

He just excludes Dallas, Houston and New Jersey. This guy really wants to never win a championship. lmao.

 

Uh, I think he did right in leaving those teams out. You honestly think that Dallas, Houston and NJ who just came off the second worst season in NBA history give him a better chance to win a title over a team like the Lakers? Over teaming with Wade in Miami or with Bron in Chicago? If anything, his list says that he's more about winning than being the man at this point.

[Check my Stats]

No, Varejao isn't enough value in return. I'm suggesting a trade that will push the Raptors in the right direction. There are plenty of options to choose from other than Jefferson, especially when you got a top 5 PF on the block. I suggest getting players that fit the Raptor puzzle, not big a piece that will fill up the board but won't connect with anything.

 

Narrowing down to the 5 teams on Bosh's "wish list", I'd go after either Noah (along with another player like Hinrich, and a couple first rounders as well) or Bynum (along with another player if more value can be squeezed out), and that's it. Lee and Beasley are talented but won't fit what the Raptors need.

 

I don't think you understand the lack of leverage we have, this isn't the trade deadline, it is a sign and trade scenario, most of which you are lucky to get a first rounder lol. You take the best player you can and then address team needs or 'fits' later on in the off-season. If a team can sign Bosh outright, all they are honestly doing is negotiation so Bosh can get that extra 30 million, the Bulls won't give us Noah just so Bosh can get 30 million, the Lakers would only give us Bynum (reportedly) because it would be a traditional trade, they don't have the ability to sign him outright like the Bulls potentially could.

[Real Deal]

Bynum is a risk, but maybe a good one. On one side of the fence, he's got the potential to be a 20/12 player, maybe even better. His post moves and footwork are really, really good, and despite the lack of defense (which seems to be more about his lack of focus due to less shot attempts), he's a big body that can intimidate slashing guards.

 

Only downside to it all are those knees. If they can't hold up through 30 minutes or less per game, third or fourth scoring option...how will they hold up as a primary scorer, over 30 minutes?

 

Drew has had two major knee surgeries as a professional, and I believe he had one before he was drafted. After the season is up, he will go under the knife again.

 

Big, big risk...but definitely a high reward if he stays healthy after this surgery.

[Built Ford Tough]

Bynum is a risk, but maybe a good one. On one side of the fence, he's got the potential to be a 20/12 player, maybe even better. His post moves and footwork are really, really good, and despite the lack of defense (which seems to be more about his lack of focus due to less shot attempts), he's a big body that can intimidate slashing guards.

 

Only downside to it all are those knees. If they can't hold up through 30 minutes or less per game, third or fourth scoring option...how will they hold up as a primary scorer, over 30 minutes?

 

Drew has had two major knee surgeries as a professional, and I believe he had one before he was drafted. After the season is up, he will go under the knife again.

 

Big, big risk...but definitely a high reward if he stays healthy after this surgery.

 

Bynum is definitely a risk, but I think he is a risk that the Raptors have to take regardless of concerns about his knees. Even if he is a huge bust in Toronto and can't stay healthy, he only has, what, 2 or 3 more years on his contract anyways? Its not like the Raptors would be taking on a huge deal that will hinder their cap space for the next 6 years or anything and even if they did, they already have thsoe kind of contracts on the roster with Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu anyways.

 

You aren't going to get a better offer in a sign and trade situation than an Andrew Bynum and if Colangelo was offered this, and turned it down, I don't even know what I would think.

 

One thing worth mentioning as a downside, along with the knees that you already touched upon, is the fact that Bynum suffers from motivational issues playing for the Lakers alongside Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson. If he has troubles with motivation there, what is going to happen if he comes to Toronto and has Jay Triano coaching him and Hedo Turkoglu as the veteran presence on the roster?

 

Regardless, like I said above, if you are offered Bynum, you take it and don't look back.

 

I wouldn't even consider Jefferson. It's not always about the talent, it's about having the right players. O'Neal-Bosh didn't work, and Bargnani-Bosh didn't work. What makes you think Jefferson-Bargnani is going to work?

 

First off, just thought that I would mention that Bosh/O'Neal didn't work not because the two couldn't play together, but because of the fact that JO was a shell of a shell of himself. He couldn't stay on the floor and even when he was on the floor he was only operating at about 70% (at best) of his capabilities. In the brief games where he showed flashes of his old brilliance, the two actually played pretty well together.

 

Secondly, Jefferson is a much, much different player than both O'Neal and Bosh. Jefferson is a throwback, old school, back to the basket big man while both O'Neal and Bosh were 15 foot, face up power forwards. Having a back to the basket big man compliments Bargnani's perimeter skills more than a 15 foot face up big man like Bosh or O'Neal are.

 

I'm not saying that Jefferson is a better player than those two are/were, and he could very well turn out to be a terrible fit with Bargnani, but on paper, his style of play, at least offensively, compliments Bargnani more than Bosh's game ever has.

 

Narrowing down to the 5 teams on Bosh's "wish list", I'd go after either Noah (along with another player like Hinrich, and a couple first rounders as well) or Bynum (along with another player if more value can be squeezed out), and that's it. Lee and Beasley are talented but won't fit what the Raptors need.

 

And do you really think that the Bulls would offer Joakim Noah AND Kirk Hinrich AND multiple first round picks? Why would the Bulls trade away their starting center, shooting guard and multiple first rounders for a player that they could sign outright? Even if they did offer that, why would Bosh want to go to a team that is gutting their roster in order to acquire him?

 

It makes no sense for the Bulls to gut their team in order to acquire Bosh, and it makes no sense for Bosh to go a team that is gutting their roster to acquire him.

 

If a sign and trade were to go down between the Bulls and the Raptors, it would not include Joakim Noah (who the Bulls have basically said that they aren't going to trade from what I remember). It would be some sort of package involving Taj Gibson and James Johnson, and if the Raptors are lucky, a first rounder thrown in.

 

I think you are grossly overestimating what kind of value you get in a sign and trade. Off of the top of my head, here are some of the more recent sign and trades that have happened:

 

Rashard Lewis for a 2nd rounder.

Kenyon Martin for 3 1st rounders.

Joe Johnson for Boris Diaw and a 1st.

Tracy McGrady for a 1st.

Eddy Curry for a 1st.

Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins.

 

Ben Wallace was basically a nobody at the time and nobody thought he would become one of the greatest defensive centers of the decade. The K-Mart scenario isn't comparable because he was a restricted free agent.

 

Unless a multiple team trade is worked out (like the Turkoglu sign and trade last summer), the Raptors won't be getting much value in return from a team that is able of signing him outright. If the Raptors are offered a worst case scenario 17/9 big man in Al Jefferson, you take that deal and run with it.

 

Wow so i was right huh, Chris Bosh really is a moron.

 

He just excludes Dallas, Houston and New Jersey. This guy really wants to never win a championship. lmao.

 

So let me get this straight, Chris Bosh is a moron for not including the New Jersey Nets, a team who's best player is Brook Lopez, a team who is coming off of one of the worst seasons in NBA history, a team who dropped from 1st to 3rd in the draft, which means they will be taking a big man and a team who's only hope of even making the playoffs is if they manage to land a prime time free agent?

 

He is also a moron for not including a team who's status as a contender relies on Yao Ming, who might not even play more than 60 games a year? Even with a healthy Yao, are the Rockets better than the Lakers?

 

But he is a moron for including the Lakers, a team who has arguably the best player in the game (Kobe Bryant) and arguably the premier post player in the league (Pau Gasol), who are going to be making their 3rd Finals appearance in 3 years and possibly win their 2nd in as many years?

 

He is a moron for considering joining up with Dwyane Wade and quite possibly another semi-big name in Miami?

 

He is a moron for considering going to Chicago to play with a 21 year old All-Star point guard, as well as the possibility of playing with LeBron james?

 

Yeah, Chris Bosh sure is a moron. I mean who in their right mind would want to play with players like Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol, Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and/or Derrick Rose when he could go to New Jersey and play with Brook Lopez and Devin Harris? lmao, what a moron.

[Poe]

Well, I would think the Bulls would jump on the opportunity to trade for Bosh AND still have enough cap space for another max. Fine, throw away the picks, but giving up a starting center and back up combo-guard is a small price to pay for an opportunity to get two max players with an up and coming superstar.

[BasX]

I would buy a Hinrich jersey if he came to Toronto. Getting Noah and Hinrich might be a pipe dream for me, but I want it.