Odom's foul troubles

[Real Deal]

vs. PHOENIX

GM1: 19 PTS (9-15 FG), 19 REB, 3 AST, 3 FLS

Amare calls Lamar Odom's night "lucky."

GM2: 17 PTS (7-10 FG), 11 REB, 4 AST, 3 FLS

GM3: 10 PTS (4-14 FG), 6 REB, 2 AST, 6 FLS

GM4: 15 PTS (6-13 FG), 10 REB, 3 AST, 4 FLS

GM5: 17 PTS (7-11 FG), 13 REB, 4 AST, 1 FLS

GM6: 6 PTS (3-12 FG), 12 REB, 3 AST, 4 FLS

 

vs. BOSTON

GM1: 5 PTS (2-6 FG), 4 REB, 1 AST, 5 FLS

GM2: 3 PTS (1-3 FG), 5 REB, 1 AST, 5 FLS

 

In the first two games against Boston, Odom has played 21 and 15 minutes, respectively.

 

For all six games against the Suns, Odom never logged under 31 minutes...and four of those six games, he played 35 or more.

 

Are the fouls his biggest problem?

[Cobb]

They were last night and I think I recall Phil Jackson saying it was his fault that Odom got that that third foul called on him. He planned on taking him out or something but began talking to the coaching staff about something and then Odom got his third called on him.

 

I'll look for the article later.

[Nitro]

Lamar Odom's biggest problem is Lamar Odom. When he lets things get to him and doesn't play his game in an aggressive manor, he disappears. When he plays with the idea that he's going to do his thing regardless of everything else, he's one of the most dangerous 6th men in the league. His foul trouble is just a microcosm of what's going on between the ears.

[Real Deal]

Lamar Odom's biggest problem is Lamar Odom. When he lets things get to him and doesn't play his game in an aggressive manor, he disappears. When he plays with the idea that he's going to do his thing regardless of everything else, he's one of the most dangerous 6th men in the league. His foul trouble is just a microcosm of what's going on between the ears.

I agree to an extent, but the Odom that plays too aggressive picks up two charges in five minutes of play. Not the most intelligent player.

[Nitro]

I agree to an extent, but the Odom that plays too aggressive picks up two charges in five minutes of play. Not the most intelligent player.

 

Aggressive doesn't necessarily mean out-of-control. When Odom plays with the mindset that he does have the talent of an All-Star and that he can make a huge impact every single game, he shines. I think that has been displayed over the years when Kobe has been out for a set of games and he is forced into a much bigger role. In many of those instances, he has been stellar. Too often, over his entire career, he has gone weeks of just being a floater like any other role/bench player. When he really involves himself in the game, good things tend to happen.

[Real Deal]

Aggressive doesn't necessarily mean out-of-control. When Odom plays with the mindset that he does have the talent of an All-Star and that he can make a huge impact every single game, he shines. I think that has been displayed over the years when Kobe has been out for a set of games and he is forced into a much bigger role. In many of those instances, he has been stellar. Too often, over his entire career, he has gone weeks of just being a floater like any other role/bench player. When he really involves himself in the game, good things tend to happen.

Sure, but there have been way too many times he has become too involved, being too aggressive.

 

He is one of the most versatile players in the NBA, but that doesn't mean he has the green light to shoot like he's Ray Allen, or take over games like Bryant. All of that garbage about Odom facilitating the offense...it's untrue, or he just chooses not to create shots for anyone. Luke Walton actually does a better job of that.

 

Odom is similar to Michael Beasley...a forward that doesn't know where to play on the court, doesn't know when to show up, and shows flashes of brilliance, but not enough when it counts the most.

 

"Odom" and "all-star" should never be in the same sentence. He has all-star moments, but so does JR Smith.

[Nitro]

Sure, but there have been way too many times he has become too involved, being too aggressive.

 

He is one of the most versatile players in the NBA, but that doesn't mean he has the green light to shoot like he's Ray Allen, or take over games like Bryant. All of that garbage about Odom facilitating the offense...it's untrue, or he just chooses not to create shots for anyone. Luke Walton actually does a better job of that.

 

Odom is similar to Michael Beasley...a forward that doesn't know where to play on the court, doesn't know when to show up, and shows flashes of brilliance, but not enough when it counts the most.

 

"Odom" and "all-star" should never be in the same sentence. He has all-star moments, but so does JR Smith.

 

I'd much rather him be overly aggressive than play non-chalant. In the last 2 seasons (160GP, 70 of them being starts) he's only had 6 games of taking 15+ shots, with all of them being a starter and 4 of the 6 him notching a double-double. In other words, he's not going to be shooting his team out of games most of the time when he's being aggressive, and when he is that involved other parts of his game tend to surface.

 

And when I say aggressive, I don't mean him necessarily taking more shots or being a focal point in the offense. I mean that when he's aggressive, he's making all the hustle plays which opens up the rest of his game. When he's hitting the glass and pulling double digit rebounds, and when he is being aggressive within the confines of his offense, he's a game-changer.

 

When he seems lost and detatched from the game, he's an ordinary role player who the Lakers can live without on most nights. When he is active and showing up in the box score, the Lakers are almost unbeatable.

[Real Deal]

When he seems lost and detatched from the game, he's an ordinary role player who the Lakers can live without on most nights. When he is active and showing up in the box score, the Lakers are almost unbeatable.

Haha come on now, that's not saying much. When LA is fully healthy, they are almost unbeatable even without Odom playing well, mainly because of the Bynum factor. We know what we'll get out of Kobe and Gasol. You add any other player dropping 20/10 (Bynum or Odom), and you have a team that can barely be contained.

 

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other, because I feel like we're almost on the same page...so let me word this in a different way: Odom is inconsistent. When he's on, it's fantastic for us. That's a given. But it's a coin-toss most of the time.

 

Let's put it this way: do you know what he'll do for Game 3? I have no idea. He may give us 20/10, or stick with a six-point, five-rebound performance. That won't cut it...and sadly, it's been that way since 2004.

 

When you have no clue what you're going to get from your teammate, you have no clue how aggressive he should be, how many minutes he should play, what role he should play, or if you should even trust him during his time out on the floor.

[Nitro]

Maybe we're misunderstanding each other, because I feel like we're almost on the same page...so let me word this in a different way: Odom is inconsistent. When he's on, it's fantastic for us. That's a given. But it's a coin-toss most of the time.

 

Basically this. That's why I said at the beginning of this topic it's not the fouls, but rather what's going on in his head that's hurting his play. Where we differ I think is I feel his inconsistencies come with his aggressiveness and involvement rather than his basketball IQ. I think that shows itself in the stats. To keep it really simple- in games he sucks, he's nowhere on the stat sheet. In games where he is a difference maker, he's all over the stat sheet. It starts with his effort and involvement, and that is best displayed with his rebounding. When he is grabbing a ton of rebounds, the rest of his game opens up big time. That tells me his aggressiveness is the issue, not IQ.

[Real Deal]

To keep it really simple- in games he sucks, he's nowhere on the stat sheet. In games where he is a difference maker, he's all over the stat sheet.

How is that any different from any other player in the league, other than defensive-minded players?

 

I understand players can make a difference without being on the statsheet, but that is basically if they are playing excellent defense and setting solid screens. Otherwise, you're looking for guys that do the dirty work and grab boards, throw assists, limit turnovers...all having to do with basketball IQ.

[Nitro]

How is that any different from any other player in the league, other than defensive-minded players?

 

I understand players can make a difference without being on the statsheet, but that is basically if they are playing excellent defense and setting solid screens. Otherwise, you're looking for guys that do the dirty work and grab boards, throw assists, limit turnovers...all having to do with basketball IQ.

 

I guess I should have explained that better haha because you are right. Basically what I meant is that it tends to be either black or white with Odom. Many players will have games where they don't necessarily fill it up, but still play very effective basketball, and that goes beyond simply playing defense and setting screens. With Odom this is almost never the case. When he plays well, the major area he'll come up big in is rebounding. That's almost all hustle and effort, NOT basketball IQ. When he is grabbing a ton of boards, he tends to be more active in every facet of the game. That doesn't necessarily mean when he's grabbing rebounds he's also scoring 20+ points or taking a ton of shots, but he becomes a player that has to be accounted for. On too many nights, as I'm sure you're well aware of, he's just kind of lost and puts minimal pressure on another team. I truly believe the difference in those nights and when he's playing very well simply comes down to the aggressiveness of his play.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

He needs to stop playing rough. We all know how good he can be off the bench if he got more minutes.

[Real Deal]

Lamar Odom just sucks, all there is to it. I don't even know why I created this topic.

 

Hollywood Odom.

[Warren2ThaG]

We don't even need Odom for this series so don't start.

[Nitro]

Odom was one of only 3 players for the Lakers to score double digit points tonight, and he was tied for team highs in rebounds and assists. FAR from the only, or even biggest problem in tonights game.

[Warren2ThaG]

Odom was one of only 3 players for the Lakers to score double digit points tonight, and he was tied for team highs in rebounds and assists. FAR from the only, or even biggest problem in tonights game.

 

u can say what u want and be blinded but i'd rather play Powell and Mbenga.

[Real Deal]

Odom was one of only 3 players for the Lakers to score double digit points tonight, and he was tied for team highs in rebounds and assists. FAR from the only, or even biggest problem in tonights game.

He was also dominated by Glen Davis, played the absolute worst defense out of anyone on the floor for us tonight. Even Ray Allen toyed with him on the way to the hoop, at one point.

 

And he only had one assist...and the 10 points he scored doesn't mean jack when he allowed 30 with his pathetic on-ball defense and his even worse help defense.

 

One good game, three bad. Story of his career.

[Multi-Billionaire]

You don't need an aggressive Odom, you need a "lucky" Odom.

[Nitro]

He was also dominated by Glen Davis, played the absolute worst defense out of anyone on the floor for us tonight. Even Ray Allen toyed with him on the way to the hoop, at one point.

 

And he only had one assist...and the 10 points he scored doesn't mean jack when he allowed 30 with his pathetic on-ball defense and his even worse help defense.

 

One good game, three bad. Story of his career.

 

My bad about the assist thing, I read it wrong off the box score (was reading Artest's assists).

 

Anyway, I don't think his defense was HORRIBLE on Davis. Many of Davis' drives to the hoop were contested, and as opposed to the previous games when he had trouble finishing over length, he was making some tremendous shots last night. The biggest difference in Davis' and Odom's play was energy and effort. When there was a broken play that Davis scored on, it was because he was giving it his all while Odom was going through the motions like it was a regular season game.

 

When Ron Artest is tied for team-high in rebounds with 7, the Lakers won't win. The Lakers just don't have the playable size to match up with the Celtics with Bynum out. Having Mbenga and Powell play spot minutes would probably be a wise move, but anymore than 6-8 minutes for each is a scary thought.

[Poe]

When looking at a player's performance, you have to take in account the amount of minutes they played. 10 points and 7 boards in 20 minutes is good. It's what Bynum is averaging in the playoffs. 10 points and 7 boards in 40 minutes, combined with one of his match ups scoring 18 points and grabbing 5 boards in just 20 minutes (plus Garnett having a somewhat decent game as well), then you are severely underachieving.

[The Regime]

Seems like the burden is just too heavy for Odom. Here is what he had to say after last nights game:

 

 

“I’m not going to put it on my shoulders to win or lose the game,” Odom said. “We have to play together as a team.”

 

Not exactly what Laker fans would like to hear but we aren't really looking for him to take a game over scoring. He just needs to continue rebounding and start exerting himself defensively. He was getting worked in the first half of last nights game by Glen Davis.

[Real Deal]

Seems like the burden is just too heavy for Odom. Here is what he had to say after last nights game:

LOL.