Turkoglu Interested In Trade To Kings

[BasX]

Hedo Turkoglu has privately expressed to league friends a desire to return to the Sacramento Kings, sources told Yahoo! Sports.

 

The Kings and Raptors have yet to engage in trade discussions, sources say, but communication is a likely possibility before the end of the month.

 

League executives believe Sacramento would need Toronto to minimally take forward Andres Nocioni and the two years, $13.5 million left on his contract.

 

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67079/20100608/turkoglu_interested_in_trade_to_kings/

 

I guess I'm happy about this report because it shows that we now have documented interested in a team from Hedo. Will Sacramento take it on I doubt it but it's a start.

[Check my Stats]

Doug Smith has stated a few times that teams will take him, we just won't be getting an expiring back for him.

[Built Ford Tough]

I love it.

 

Turkoglu signs a lucrative contract with the Raptors, decides to play like complete [expletive] all year, complains about his role all season, apologizes to the franchise and fans at his year end press conference, proceeds to blast the team to the Turkish media just a few weeks later and now he wants to tell the Raptors where to trade him?

 

Not that I am complaining considering I want him gone regardless of the return (save for maybe an Arenas or Brand contract, but even then, I think the happiness of getting rid of Turkoglu would make me fine with that), but I just love how he is trying to dictate where he goes. When you play like crap all seaason which completely diminishes your value, and then you go ahead and demand a trade, as far as I am concerned, you don't have any right to try and dictate where you go.

 

Alas, the joys of professional sports.

 

So I imagine the deal would be Turkoglu for Nocioni. Kings may insist that the Raptors take on Garcia or something too as he would be redundant with the addition of Turkoglu and emergance of Casspi last season. I really doubt the Raptors have much leverage in a trade involving Turkoglu so they will probably get the shaft in any trade with him.

 

Who cares though, if the Raptors can get somebody on a shorter contract than Turkoglu it is a good enough trade for me, regardless of how much the other play may suck.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[BasX]

We may soon be adding one more name to the list of NBA players forever hated in Toronto. Hedo Turkoglu, who was already getting booed by Raptors fans toward the end of his first season with the team amidst poor play and accusations of excess partying, reportedly wants to be traded back to his original NBA home in Sacramento.

 

At the height of the Chris Webber/Mike Bibby era, Hedo was a valuable contributor off the bench. He’s already said he’s not happy in Toronto, and according to Yahoo! Sports, the “disgruntled” 31-year-old wants to return to the Kings:

 

Dime has also picked up the Story. This team may be the most active this off-season and it could be a fun ride.

[Poe]

Dude, it says Turkoglu privately expressed interest in playing for the Kings. It's not like he has a gun up to Colangelo's head telling him to trade him or else.

 

Seriously, the Raptors aren't happy with him, and he isn't happy in Toronto. You should be glad that there are at least some trade talks, at least if you want him out that bad. Personally, I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade for Nocioni and Garcia. Perhaps only Nocioni if you already have a replacement at SF that better suits the team.

 

 

At this point, I do not at all think Turkoglu is a bad player. Certainly overpaid, but can still contribute if used correctly.

[Built Ford Tough]

Dude, it says Turkoglu privately expressed interest in playing for the Kings. It's not like he has a gun up to Colangelo's head telling him to trade him or else.

 

Seriously, the Raptors aren't happy with him, and he isn't happy in Toronto. You should be glad that there are at least some trade talks, at least if you want him out that bad. Personally, I wouldn't pull the trigger on a trade for Nocioni and Garcia. Perhaps only Nocioni if you already have a replacement at SF that better suits the team.

 

 

At this point, I do not at all think Turkoglu is a bad player. Certainly overpaid, but can still contribute if used correctly.

 

He privately stated that he wants to go to Sacramento and it just happened to be leaked to the media? Yeah, I'm sure he had no intentions of this story breaking and having it be known that he wants to return to Sacramento. He is probably an innocent victim on this as well.

 

And where did I say that I wasn't glad that there are trade talks in regards to Turkoglu? Did I not say in my post that I would trade him anywhere for basically anything? As long as the player the Raptors are getting back has a shorter contract than Turkoglu's, I'm all for it. I would be absolutely dumbfounded if the Raptors got something of actual value in return for Turkoglu.

 

I just think it is bush league for players to whine and cry all season long which diminishes their value, demand a trade, which diminishes their value even more and then try to dictate where he is traded to. Oh right, this was a private conversation that nobody was supposed to know about.

[Poe]

I didn't say that nobody was supposed to know about it, nor is there any evidence of him trying to dictate specific trades. We don't have any details on the story. All we know is that Turkoglu has interest in playing in Sacramento. Is there something wrong with that?

 

And there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. Turkoglu feels his situation in Toronto isn't pleasant for him, and he has an expressive personality, so he's going to say what's on his mind. It's better to complain than to stay quiet and say nothing at all, or else nothing gets done about it more often than not. Since Hedo and the Raptors situation hasn't gotten any better, naturally he's going to demand a trade, and apparently Toronto has been looking into some scenarios.

 

 

Also, you are directing so much attention to Hedo that you are forgetting this goes both ways. Hedo isn't in the right and neither is the Raptors organization. The Raptors offense didn't benefit Hedo, and Hedo couldn't adapt. Best option now seems to be a trade, but try and get more value than just a slightly shorter contract. Hedo is still a good player that can help some teams, he's just no use for the Raptors.

 

Hedo is a ball-dominant offensive player that can create mismatches. The problem is, he's playing for a pure offensive team with a ball-dominant point guard that already has plenty of other mismatch options, like Bosh and Bargnani. A team that can make more use of him would be more of the opposite, like a team that's more adequate defensively that is in need of playmakers offensively.

 

Think of Pokemon (if you played/watched it growing up) with an electric one using his powers on a rock type. They are less effective, so the pokemon appears worse than it is than when he is using his electricity on a water type. Toronto is the rock type and a different team, perhaps Sacramento even, is that water type (I can't believe I'm comparing pokemon and basketball, haha... just the best example I can think of off the top of my head).

Edited June 8, 2010 by Poe

[Check my Stats]

I didn't say that nobody was supposed to know about it, nor is there any evidence of him trying to dictate specific trades. We don't have any details on the story. All we know is that Turkoglu has interest in playing in Sacramento. Is there something wrong with that?

 

Yes, he doesn't get to demand a trade and then give our GM preferences on where he wants to play.

 

And there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. Turkoglu feels his situation in Toronto isn't pleasant for him, and he has an expressive personality, so he's going to say what's on his mind. It's better to complain than to stay quiet and say nothing at all, or else nothing gets done about it more often than not. Since Hedo and the Raptors situation hasn't gotten any better, naturally he's going to demand a trade, and apparently Toronto has been looking into some scenarios.

 

Lol.... there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion privately to your ORGANIZATION, has Hedo done that? No, he ran to the Turkish media and says he wants out. It isn't better to complain publically because now we will struggle to get any sort of value for him, we have literally 0 leverage in a Hedo trade now. After watching Wade for 7 years I figure you would know how a professional athlete should carry himself, I guess not, seeing the way you defend Hedo is insane.

 

 

Also, you are directing so much attention to Hedo that you are forgetting this goes both ways. Hedo isn't in the right and neither is the Raptors organization. The Raptors offense didn't benefit Hedo, and Hedo couldn't adapt. Best option now seems to be a trade, but try and get more value than just a slightly shorter contract. Hedo is still a good player that can help some teams, he's just no use for the Raptors.

 

So it is our fault that he didn't enjoy his time here and played with no heart or effort? He hardly even made an effort to be effective this year, he was unable or unwilling to alter his game for the benefit of the team. Best option is a trade, but Hedo's behaviour now prevents us from getting any sort of possible value than we will now get.

 

Think of Pokemon (if you played/watched it growing up) with an electric one using his powers on a rock type. They are less effective, so the pokemon appears worse than it is than when he is using his electricity on a water type. Toronto is the rock type and a different team, perhaps Sacramento even, is that water type (I can't believe I'm comparing pokemon and basketball, haha... just the best example I can think of off the top of my head).

 

Lol. So when Pikachu faced off against Onyx he was supposed to give up and not try? Because that is exactly what he did, and now he is telling everyone he wants away from Ash, but what trainer is going to give Ash anything for him now that they know he wants out and has a bad attitude?

Edited June 8, 2010 by travesy3

[BasX]

This thread got 10X better because of the Pokemon reference

[SeasonSeven]

So he wants to go back to Sacramento, huh?

 

I say let him. He's been nothing but a failure in Toronto, unload him, let someone else take that bad contract.

 

Lost a lot of respect for the guy after last season.

[Built Ford Tough]

Poe, I would respond to you but travesy basically said exactly what I would've said in response to you.

 

One thing that I would like to add though is that no matter what the circumstances are, I will never be okay with a player publically demanding a trade. Not only does it completely negate any value that you would've had in the first place (in Turkoglu's case, very little) but it puts management in a terrible position as you won't get anything of value in return for a player who makes these kinds of demands, and keeping him on the roster is just terrible for chemistry. If you want out, go to management and discuss this in private.

 

Also, props for the Pokemon reference. Loved that, haha.

 

 

Something that I found funny is Turkoglu complaining about not having the ball in his hands all season long and throwing in the towel because of it, but he would be fine with going to Sacramento to play alongside Tyreke Evans who had a USG% of around 27% this past season (Bosh led the Raptors with 28%) as a rookie. You have to imagine that number will increase next season when he adds to his game.

 

Also, factor in the Kings will be adding a top 5 draft pick that they will surely want to develop as well and will be given ample oppotunities to prove himself during his rookie season.

 

Its not like he would be the primary ball handler and see the most touches on the team or anything like that in Sacramento.

 

(I know that he simply wants out of Toronto at this point, I just found this funny as not having the ball in his hands all of the time was one of his biggest problems with this team.)

Edited June 8, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Check my Stats]

Weather.

[Poe]

Sorry, I just don't see him as the two-horned, red-tailed demon that you guys make him out to be.

 

Hedo Turkoglu's averages...

 

09/10: 11.3 points (40.9% FG, 37.4% 3PT), 4.1 assists (1.7 TO), 4.6 rebounds, 0.7 steals, 0.4 blocks - 30.7 minutes

 

Career: 12.2 points (42.7% FG, 38.3% 3 PT), 2.9 assists (1.7 TO), 4.3 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 0.3 blocks - 28.2 minutes

 

 

His numbers do not suggest a lack of effort by any means, at least not any worse than the usual Hedo. Perhaps his lack of quickness and his laid-back persona gives him the impression of lazyness, but looking at these numbers here, the only thing lacking as far as efficiency goes are his shooting percentages, which directly translates to him simply having more difficulty scoring in the Raptors' offense. Considering their lack of screen-setters, which would help compliment Turkoglu's strengths, it really isn't surprising.

 

 

Also, his usage percentage is far lower in Toronto than it was in Orlando, and so were his minutes. His USG% in Toronto was 18 while getting 30 minutes per game, while in Orlando his USG% was up to 25 with up to 37 mpg. So the fact that Turkoglu still managed to average a similar number of assists is actually pretty impressive (he averaged up to 5.0 in Orlando). Give him more touches and minutes, the same as he had in Orlando, and you may have seen numbers at about 16 points and 6.5 assists. Had he shot a field goal percentage similar to what he averaged in his four years in Orlando (around 44%), again combined with the minutes and USG% he had there, and you would have seen about a 20 point average, along with those 6.5 assists, and 5.4 rebounds and 1 steal to go along with the extra playing time.

 

Also, I'm not pulling these numbers out of my [expletive], I'm using real math (rounding out a lot, but I think the general idea is pretty accurate).

 

 

The more I look into it, the more clear to me it is that Hedo's struggles are simply because he does not fit in Toronto. I think there is no question that Turkoglu can facilitate an offense, and in the right system, he can be a scoring threat as well. Those are his strengths, and you can't expect much more from him. No, he's not a terrific rebounder nor a good defender. He's never been, yet he's still the same player he's ever been. He's just not fit for the Raptors, that's all.

 

 

 

Lol. So when Pikachu faced off against Onyx he was supposed to give up and not try? Because that is exactly what he did, and now he is telling everyone he wants away from Ash, but what trainer is going to give Ash anything for him now that they know he wants out and has a bad attitude?

 

Ash and Pikachu had chemistry. Something Hedo and the Raptors don't share. Also, not all problems are solved by trying super duper hard like in cartoons.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Poe

[Poe]

After watching Wade for 7 years I figure you would know how a professional athlete should carry himself, I guess not, seeing the way you defend Hedo is insane.

 

Also, if you know me well enough or have been closely paying attention to all my posts here, you'll know I don't have the same idea of what's considered good and bad as the common person. Actually, I don't even think "good" and "bad" or "evil" even exists, but that would be starting a whole knew topic.

 

 

Also, factor in the Kings will be adding a top 5 draft pick that they will surely want to develop as well and will be given ample oppotunities to prove himself during his rookie season.

 

Its not like he would be the primary ball handler and see the most touches on the team or anything like that in Sacramento.

 

(I know that he simply wants out of Toronto at this point, I just found this funny as not having the ball in his hands all of the time was one of his biggest problems with this team.)

 

This is true. Perhaps Sacramento wouldn't be able to turn him back into the star he was in Orlando, but Hedo did say he wouldn't mind coming off the bench. I think he's just looking for a place where he can be better incorporated into the offense, as well as less hate from the fanbase (like being booed in his homecourt).

 

A team that would send a trade request would either be a team that thinks they can revive him into his Orlando days, or a team that believes he can contribute off the bench. I doubt too many teams want to pay such a price for a bench player, so there has to be at least 1 of the 29 other teams that think he's still a valuable player enough to send at least some kind of contributor back at Toronto.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Poe

[Check my Stats]

Well did you see his immature 'ball' post-game interview? Sure, as funny as it was, it was also immature and he should have just answered the question. He went out partying after missing a game as well, or something like that? His body language has been horrible all year, and it was obvious he didn't give his full effort most of the time.

 

I see your statistics, and I have actually used them before to show that statistically Hedo didn't do much worse than normal, but it was clear he wasn't playing as hard as possible, not to mention he was never in shape all year, not even at the end of the year.

 

The stats you are showing is what is so frustrating, he did all of what he normally did without trying, we KNOW he can be a better player, we saw it in the games where he actually played his tail off.... there were only a few times, but when he did he was a really good player for us.

 

The fact of the matter is, rather than adjusting his own game to the role the coach wanted him to have, he just sulked and did nothing when the ball wasn't in his hands. Another reason this is so frustrating is that this isn't the first time a player played like [expletive] for us then requested a trade, and diminished his value so all we could get was a bag of basketballs and Joey Graham.

 

In the end, I have no problem if you want out of an organization, but you do it professionally. You give 100% your time there, and you ask out quietly so the team can still get value for you.

 

This season, Sonny Weems>Hedo Turkoglu, I don't care what Hedo has DONE, what he DID was nothing better than Sonny did for us when he played, and frankly that is just unacceptable no matter how unhappy you are.

Edited June 8, 2010 by travesy3

[Built Ford Tough]

I'm not going to respond to the stat argument because travesy basically already said what I would say (again). But one thing I found funny was this:

 

Sorry, I just don't see him as the two-horned, red-tailed demon that you guys make him out to be.

 

How exactly are we making Turkoglu out to be a "two-horned, red-tailed demon"?

 

Is it too much to ask for a player to come into training camp in good shape, or if he isn't in good shape for him to get into shape during the season, both which Turkoglu didn't do? Is it too much to as for a player to give it his all whenever he is on the court?

 

Shame on us for wanting the Raptors major offseason acquisition to actually play like he gave a damn all season. If Turkoglu played every game like he did that one against New York (26/11 or something) or that last game against Chicago when he grabbed 18 boards (or whatever it was) the Raptors would've been a playoff team.

 

Whether a player fits in with a team or not, is it not expected for him to try and make the best out of the situation? Or are we being irrational fans for expecting that?

[Poe]

Well did you see his immature 'ball' post-game interview? Sure, as funny as it was, it was also immature and he should have just answered the question. He went out partying after missing a game as well, or something like that? His body language has been horrible all year, and it was obvious he didn't give his full effort most of the time.

There was nothing wrong with the 'ball' interview whatsoever. To say so is looking for excuses to call Turkoglu a bad person. And according to Hedo, the partying was a big misunderstanding, and there was only one time he was ever caught doing it.

 

About the Hedo on the court, you have to understand, he's not an "effort" player. He's a "skill" player, and has always been that way. He is the pure opposite of Reggie Evens on your team. Not a whole lot about Hedo changed this year, this is who the Raptors threw a big contract at. To expect otherwise is to expect a different player.

 

The fact of the matter is, rather than adjusting his own game to the role the coach wanted him to have, he just sulked and did nothing when the ball wasn't in his hands. Another reason this is so frustrating is that this isn't the first time a player played like [expletive] for us then requested a trade, and diminished his value so all we could get was a bag of basketballs and Joey Graham.

 

The fact of the matter is that the Raptors committed to him when giving him that 50M, 5 year contract. It is imperative to make the most of his abilities when making such a commitment, yet the Raptors seemed to just expect everything to work out on its own.

 

What has been understood about Turkoglu's game is that he doesn't make plays off the ball other than spot up jumpers, he isn't a very good on-ball defender, he is a decent but not terrific rebounder, and by no means is he a player who does "the little things". But this is not why the Raptors signed him.

 

Turkoglu's biggest strengths are his passing game, his shooting touch, his ability to play the pick and roll, his point-forward ball handling skills, the ability to drive hard to the rim at his size, his decision making with the ball in his hands, and the ability to make big plays under pressure. This is what the Raptors paid him for, yet this is not how the Raptors used him. They did not give him his usual minutes and they played him off the ball more than he was accustomed to. They exposed his weaknesses instead of exploiting his strengths, and as a result, his game suffered.

 

You can't sign a player who is really good at one thing, and expect him to do another unless he's one of those moldable versatile players like Lamar Odom. He's not going to make hustle plays, rebound terrifically on a consistent basis, or even score a lot of points without using him the right way. If you are going to commit so much money into him, you have to use him the right way, or else you just put all that money into nothing.

 

 

Hedo is still a good player. No, he's not going to hustle his balls off. He's not going to grab 10 boards per game. He's not going to shut anyone down, disrupt passing lanes, or even draw charges. But set up your offense to allow Hedo to 'do his thing', and Hedo's offensive abilities will be more than enough to make up for it.

 

 

This season, Sonny Weems>Hedo Turkoglu

 

For the Raptors, this makes perfect sense. Sonny is a player that benefits in the offense more than Turkoglu. He's a slasher, a player with speed that gets out on the break, and a mover without the ball. With shooters like Calderon, Jack, Bosh, and Bargnani to spread the floor and receive most of the offensive attention, it frees things up for Sonny to use his own strengths.

 

Also, Sonny is a player who will hustle, disrupt passes, and use his athleticism to bother offensive players. Sonny has a different approach to the game than Hedo and is a player that benefits more in the Raptors offense simply by the make up of the team. Defensively, with a line up that consists of more players with a skill-mentality than a hustle-mentality, Sonny stands out.

 

The problem for Hedo is that he's a skill player playing on a skill-driven team with little to no athletic and dirty-work players. The Raptors are full of shooters, Hedo is a shooter. The Raptors have a ball-dominant point guard, Hedo is most affective when he has the ball in his hands. The Raptors' best player is also their best playmaker, Hedo is mostly affective as a playmaker. Hedo is a mismatch due to his size and ball handling ability, the team has other mismatch options such as Bosh and Bargnani to abuse. The Raptors have neither perimeter nor interior defense, Hedo has neither as well.

 

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that this has less and less to do with either the Raptors doing a poor job incorporating him in the offense, or Hedo doing a poor job adjusting. Hedo was simply a player that the Raptors didn't need, nor have much use for.

 

This was simply a bad signing from the start. Either get rid of Turkoglu (and at least try to get something in return), or change the make up of the team completely that will allow the Raptors to make better use of him. He can still be a point-forward and a main playmaker for a playoff caliber team.

 

 

 

BTW, sorry for not replying to BFT directly, but I think most of his questions are answered in my post anyway.

[Check my Stats]

[expletive] this is a long [expletive]-post -_-

 

There was nothing wrong with the 'ball' interview whatsoever. To say so is looking for excuses to call Turkoglu a bad person. And according to Hedo, the partying was a big misunderstanding, and there was only one time he was ever caught doing it.

 

Frankly after the way Hedo has behaved all year, coming into camp shape, terrible body language all year, laughing with opponents after losses, his word doesn't hold much worth with me. And yes there is something wrong with the interview, as a pro he has the responsibility to answer the question, not only the initial question but the follow up question. 'I have nothing more to say'? Really Hedo? In the midst of his worst year compared to his rookie year, that is all he had to say? It is one thing if someone is saying it as a joke, but Hedo was just being a jerk.

 

About the Hedo on the court, you have to understand, he's not an "effort" player. He's a "skill" player, and has always been that way. He is the pure opposite of Reggie Evens on your team. Not a whole lot about Hedo changed this year, this is who the Raptors threw a big contract at. To expect otherwise is to expect a different player.

 

I didn't expect Hedo to be jumping into the crowd to save loose balls, but at the same time I expected him to come into the season in shape and prepared to make us a better basketball team, which he did not. The only thing about Hedo that changed is the fact he didn't give a [expletive].

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that the Raptors committed to him when giving him that 50M, 5 year contract. It is imperative to make the most of his abilities when making such a commitment, yet the Raptors seemed to just expect everything to work out on its own.

 

What has been understood about Turkoglu's game is that he doesn't make plays off the ball other than spot up jumpers, he isn't a very good on-ball defender, he is a decent but not terrific rebounder, and by no means is he a player who does "the little things". But this is not why the Raptors signed him.

 

Turkoglu's biggest strengths are his passing game, his shooting touch, his ability to play the pick and roll, his point-forward ball handling skills, the ability to drive hard to the rim at his size, his decision making with the ball in his hands, and the ability to make big plays under pressure. This is what the Raptors paid him for, yet this is not how the Raptors used him. They did not give him his usual minutes and they played him off the ball more than he was accustomed to. They exposed his weaknesses instead of exploiting his strengths, and as a result, his game suffered.

 

This is all stuff I know, I don't recall ever saying he was misused, it is pretty obvious he was. But if you are being misused as a player why don't you talk to the coach to adjust the game plan? He just stood and wandered when he didn't have the ball, and when he did have the ball, half the time he did something dumb with it.

 

You can't sign a player who is really good at one thing, and expect him to do another unless he's one of those moldable versatile players like Lamar Odom. He's not going to make hustle plays, rebound terrifically on a consistent basis, or even score a lot of points without using him the right way. If you are going to commit so much money into him, you have to use him the right way, or else you just put all that money into nothing.

 

I expect him to at least attempt to adapt into the role the coach assigned to him.

 

 

Hedo is still a good player. No, he's not going to hustle his balls off. He's not going to grab 10 boards per game. He's not going to shut anyone down, disrupt passing lanes, or even draw charges. But set up your offense to allow Hedo to 'do his thing', and Hedo's offensive abilities will be more than enough to make up for it.

 

Ok.....

 

 

For the Raptors, this makes perfect sense. Sonny is a player that benefits in the offense more than Turkoglu. He's a slasher, a player with speed that gets out on the break, and a mover without the ball. With shooters like Calderon, Jack, Bosh, and Bargnani to spread the floor and receive most of the offensive attention, it frees things up for Sonny to use his own strengths.

 

Also, Sonny is a player who will hustle, disrupt passes, and use his athleticism to bother offensive players. Sonny has a different approach to the game than Hedo and is a player that benefits more in the Raptors offense simply by the make up of the team. Defensively, with a line up that consists of more players with a skill-mentality than a hustle-mentality, Sonny stands out.

 

Actually Sonny is one of the few players on our team that thrived in the open court, not to mention he was more creative with the ball at times than Hedo even was. The difference between the two was Sonny is a 23 year old actually trying and Hedo was a 30 year old who didn't give a [expletive]. Hedo is a superior player but Sonny Weems outplayed him last year because Hedo just didn't try.

 

The problem for Hedo is that he's a skill player playing on a skill-driven team with little to no athletic and dirty-work players. The Raptors are full of shooters, Hedo is a shooter. The Raptors have a ball-dominant point guard, Hedo is most affective when he has the ball in his hands. The Raptors' best player is also their best playmaker, Hedo is mostly affective as a playmaker. Hedo is a mismatch due to his size and ball handling ability, the team has other mismatch options such as Bosh and Bargnani to abuse. The Raptors have neither perimeter nor interior defense, Hedo has neither as well.

 

Again, ok......

 

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that this has less and less to do with either the Raptors doing a poor job incorporating him in the offense, or Hedo doing a poor job adjusting. Hedo was simply a player that the Raptors didn't need, nor have much use for.

 

We didn't need him, but theoretically speaking, shouldn't Hedo make a team better? He didn't make us better, we are winning 40 games with or without him last year.

 

This was simply a bad signing from the start. Either get rid of Turkoglu (and at least try to get something in return), or change the make up of the team completely that will allow the Raptors to make better use of him. He can still be a point-forward and a main playmaker for a playoff caliber team.

 

 

 

I agree with most of your post, I just don't understand where it is coming from, your entire post seems dedicated to the fact of WHY Hedo is a bad fit, and we all know he is a bad fit, but him being a bad fit is not an excuse for his poor off and on court behaviour. I don't mind a guy having a bad year, but not when it is because he doesn't give a [expletive] or isn't trying. If you are trying to say that just because you don't 'fit' in a team's system is an excuse to not give hardly any effort, then I won't bother responding to anymore of your posts.

[Poe]

Also, I don't think the Turkoglu situation is hopeless.

 

With Chris Bosh on his way out, the Raptors should do everything they can to replace him with a defensive minded center like Joakim Noah. A guy like Noah will take pressure off of perimeter defenders like Hedo, and also cover Bargnani's back on the boards. Offensively, Noah can be the guy who sets screens for Turkoglu to make things easier for him. The Raptors had too much skill and not enough dirty work players last year. Noah is a dirty work player who will make life easier for everyone else around him.

 

The biggest problem for Hedo, though, is the point guard, Jose Calderon. Obviously we've already established this, so to just restate it quickly, both are players who are most effective with the ball in their hands, and have very little effectiveness off the ball. I don't think it is completely necessary to get rid of Calderon specifically, but it absolutely has to be one or the other. Simply put, the two cannot co-exist, no matter who comes off the bench. I would put both players on the block this summer, and whichever player I can get the most value for I would trade.

 

If Calderon is traded, it doesn't matter too much what they get in return, since Jarret Jack would be a fine replacement as is. Perhaps a young scoring sixth man would be ideal.

 

I think a starting line up of Jack - DeRozan - Turkoglu - Bargnani - Noah can be a successful team under the right coaching. It is a good mix of hustle players and defenders (Noah, DeRozan, and kinda sorta Jack), shooters (Jack, Hedo, Bargs), slashers and inside players (Jack, DeRozan, Noah), playmakers (Jack, Turkoglu), mismatches (Turkoglu, Bargnani), and scorers (DeRozan, Turkoglu, Bargnani).

 

I don't see this as any kind of championship contender, but they can easily be a consistent playoff team with a brighter future than once thought. DeRozan, Barganani, Amir, and Sonny are all young players that will improve with time (as well as Noah if they can get the Raptors can get their hands on him). If the Raptors can make the right moves over the years, perhaps becoming championship contenders at some point is a possibility. Right now, they need to focus on the small steps in order to reach that point, and the first thing they need to do is treat their players better, and second and most important of all, make the playoffs consistently.

[Poe]

Frankly after the way Hedo has behaved all year, coming into camp shape, terrible body language all year, laughing with opponents after losses, his word doesn't hold much worth with me. And yes there is something wrong with the interview, as a pro he has the responsibility to answer the question, not only the initial question but the follow up question. 'I have nothing more to say'? Really Hedo? In the midst of his worst year compared to his rookie year, that is all he had to say? It is one thing if someone is saying it as a joke, but Hedo was just being a jerk.

 

I'm not going to reply to this because it would lead to a whole different discussion that doesn't have much to do with the main topic. All I'm going to say is that I disagree with the 'ball' interview as showing bad character, and I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove that Hedo has "poor off-court behavior".

 

Also, Hedo has a laid-back personality, which makes it easy to put him in a bad light when he isn't playing well.

 

Once again, I don't believe Turkoglu is completely in the right, but that isn't the point of my post. My point revolves around Toronto making the most out of their investment in him, which they don't appear to be making much of an effort to do so.

 

I agree with most of your post, I just don't understand where it is coming from, your entire post seems dedicated to the fact of WHY Hedo is a bad fit, and we all know he is a bad fit, but him being a bad fit is not an excuse for his poor off and on court behaviour. I don't mind a guy having a bad year, but not when it is because he doesn't give a [expletive] or isn't trying. If you are trying to say that just because you don't 'fit' in a team's system is an excuse to not give hardly any effort, then I won't bother responding to anymore of your posts.

 

You are repeating the same question so I'll repeat the same answer. Hedo is not an effort player, at least in many aspects of the game. He has never been.

 

If Hedo was a rookie under a rookie contract, I would understand what you are saying. In that situation, it's up to the player to do what the team asks and the player has little leverage, so if the player wants a successful career, he needs to develop his game around his team.

 

This is a different situation. The Raptors chose to pay Hedo this much money under this many years. They can't just say "okay you got your money, now make [expletive] happen". It's not that simple, and I've already explained why it hasn't worked and what they need to do to fix the situation this summer. It's too late to turn back now, and it's too early to say "oh well, I guess it'll never work".