Pau Gasol = best big man in the league?

[Poe]

Throughout the NBA Finals, Jeff Van Gundy has continually called Gasol the best big man in the league. Do you agree with him?

[Lemon]

I was thinking about that too and I voted no.

 

Why? because if you compare KG and Gasol on tonight's game, we all see how Gasol was an overall better player. KG on the other hand was only dominant on the scoring end. The difference is that without KG's performance tonight, Boston didn't stand a chance. Pierce and Ray Allen was struggling, and Rondo couldn't get past Laker's two bigs. KG was the best option all the time in the court.

 

I'm not saying that KG is better than Gasol either. I believe Gasol has surpassed KG since 08. What I am saying is that scoring is huge in this league, and the best scoring big is still Dirk. Dirk is still the best big in the league.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Offensively he said he was the best, which someone can easily agree with.

[ExplosiveScoring]

I'd still take Yao, Dirk and Dwight before him. Actually, Gasol vs Dirk is all about preference. But Yao when healthy and Dwight Howard overtake Gasol any day of the week.

[Sun Tzu]

No. I'd take Dwight, Yao, Dirk and maybe Bosh over him.

[Brand New]

Offensively, Yes. Defensively no, that goes to Dwight Howard.

[Real Deal]

Offensively, yes. I don't consider Dirk Nowitzki because he doesn't exactly play in the post like Gasol, Duncan, Yao and other bigs.

 

While Gasol doesn't have the overall offensive skillset that Duncan did in his prime, he's still close.

[Newman]

No because to me, the best big man should also be the definition of 'power' in the league, and that goes to Dwight.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Dwight is better than him on offence and defence, Yao is better when he's healthy. There's others as well.

[Warren2ThaG]

Best consistent big man after Dirk.

[Need4Sheed]

WTF no.

 

Their are plenty better than him IMO.

[Warren2ThaG]

WTF no.

 

Their are plenty better than him IMO.

 

like Marc Gasol

[YugoRocketsFan]

Dwight is better than him on offence and defence, Yao is better when he's healthy. There's others as well.

 

No way, Dwight Howard doesnt have any offense and gets stopped too easily.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

No way, Dwight Howard doesnt have any offense and gets stopped too easily.

Dwight 18. 3 PGG

Pau 18.3 PPG

What the heck do you mean?

[ballorama]

Gasol has an established post game.. I cannot say the same about Dwight. Dwights PPG is the same as Gasol only because he gets dunks and shoots a ton of free throws. His offensive game is not NEARLY as good as Gasol. If Gasol was the #1 guy on a team he would def avg 20+ 10+ a game.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Gasol has an established post game.. I cannot say the same about Dwight. Dwights PPG is the same as Gasol only because he gets dunks and shoots a ton of free throws. His offensive game is not NEARLY as good as Gasol. If Gasol was the #1 guy on a team he would def avg 20+ 10+ a game.

Dwight isn't a good FT shooter. He usually makes like only half of what he shoots from the line. Pau is a good shooting big man. Dwight isn't supposed to have a great offensive game and be a good shooter because he's a Center. Centers are always around the hoop ready for the dunk and lay-up which is why he isn't a great offensive player. Dwight and Gasol are two of the best passing big men today. Remember, passing is also a offensive catagory.

[Lone Wolf]

Gasol has an established post game.. I cannot say the same about Dwight. Dwights PPG is the same as Gasol only because he gets dunks and shoots a ton of free throws. His offensive game is not NEARLY as good as Gasol. If Gasol was the #1 guy on a team he would def avg 20+ 10+ a game.

Gasol never had a 20 10 season with the Grizzlies. His closest was: 20.8 PPG and 9.8 RPG.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Dwight 18. 3 PGG

Pau 18.3 PPG

What the heck do you mean?

 

Dwight: 1st option

Gasol: 2nd option.

[Poe]

For my personal answer, it's 'no'. Dirk and Dwight are both better players.

 

As for Dirk, he is much better offensively. Sure, he's not the traditional big man as far as going back to the basket, blocking shots, being big-bodied, and so on, but he's still easily the better scorer. Though Pau may have the better true shooting percentage, turn Dirk into a second option and make Pau the main man, and that is highly likely to change.

 

As for Dwight, Pau may have more post moves and a more refined game all around, but he does not impact the game nearly as much on either end of the court. In an offense with Dwight Howard as it's main feature, the Magic made the NBA Finals last year. Memphis never made it past the first round. Though you can argue that Dwight may have had the better overall team, I think it was pretty clear to the Grizzlies that centering an offense around Gasol wasn't going to go very far, which is why they traded him.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay Gasol or anything. If I was to choose a model power forward in this league, I'd choose him. I just don't feel he impacts the game enough to be considered the very best.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Poe

[EastCoastNiner]

Dwight: 1st option

Gasol: 2nd option.

 

And, to add to that, most of Dwight's points are on rebounds or alley-oops which are fine, but he doesn't pose the same threat that Gasol is.

 

D12 = most over-rated player in the NBA.

 

Chris Paul is a close 2nd.

[Erick Blasco]

Yao? Dwight? Dirk? How is this even a discussion?

 

Gasol has more moves than Yao, is more assertive around the basket, and is a much better handler and passer. His defense covers vastly more range, and Gasol is a big-time shot blocker and help defender.

 

Dwight's defense is more forceful, but Dwight also abandons responsibilities by chasing the ball, can't defend screens, and can't defend players who can face up. Gasol can't rebound like Dwight, but he's a terrific help defender and much more versatile. If Howard's a better defender, it's not by that much.

 

Offensively, Dwight does one thing better than Gasol---sealing after a screen and then dunking. Gasol has turnarounds over either shoulder, hooks with either hand, step-throughs, dunk-unders, show-and-go's, fadeaways, spins...he can score with his back to the basket, or by facing up, or by shooting. He's also a far superior passer and ball-handler.

 

Dirk has one better skill than Gasol, range shooting, and range shooting fails much easier than inside play (look at Kobe and Ray Allen's Game Three as a testimony to that).

 

JVG, Charley Rosen, anybody with the close scrutiny of players and details associated with coaching will tell you that Gasol is the best big man in the game.

 

You guys are all watching the Finals right? Have you seen what Gasol has done this postseason? Do you watch? You can't say Dirk or Yao is better than Gasol and have credibility. It's a smack in the face of Gasol when he simply torches everybody who tries to guard him who isn't named Rasheed Wallace.

 

If Gasol got 25 shots a game, there wouldn't even be a discussion.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Erick Blasco

[Nitro]

You can't say Dirk or Yao is better than Gasol and have credibility.

 

You're right...saying a former MVP, 9x All-Star, 4x All-NBA first-teamer and #1 option who led his team to the Finals is better than Gasol means you have no credibility...right.

 

Anyway, Gasol is arguably the most complete and skilled big man in the league, and certainly a perfect compliment to Kobe Bryant. But, do I think he could be the centerpiece of a championship-level team? No. People will say that he could be so much more productive if he was the #1 option...I don't buy it. He certainly has grown since his Memphis days, but I just don't think he could be the 25-28PPG scorer like Dirk or the defensive monster like Dwight that you could build a championship team around. And that's not a knock on Gasol and how great he is, but when talking about the game's best big men I take that ability to be "the guy" into major consideration.

 

Because of that, I'd still take at least Dirk over him for sure. After that it's more of a 'what have you done for me now?' thing. Before this post-season, I don't think there'd be more than a very select number of people to take Gasol over Dwight. Now it's becoming more common. If Chris Bosh was on a team that had more success last season, he would be getting mentioned a lot more in the 'best big man' debate...he had a tremendous season, especially before the injury. And if Yao ever comes back healthy, he'll reclaim his spot as the best low post scorer in the league.

[Erick Blasco]

You're right...saying a former MVP, 9x All-Star, 4x All-NBA first-teamer and #1 option who led his team to the Finals is better than Gasol means you have no credibility...right.

 

Anyway, Gasol is arguably the most complete and skilled big man in the league, and certainly a perfect compliment to Kobe Bryant. But, do I think he could be the centerpiece of a championship-level team? No. People will say that he could be so much more productive if he was the #1 option...I don't buy it. He certainly has grown since his Memphis days, but I just don't think he could be the 25-28PPG scorer like Dirk or the defensive monster like Dwight that you could build a championship team around. And that's not a knock on Gasol and how great he is, but when talking about the game's best big men I take that ability to be "the guy" into major consideration.

 

Because of that, I'd still take at least Dirk over him for sure. After that it's more of a 'what have you done for me now?' thing. Before this post-season, I don't think there'd be more than a very select number of people to take Gasol over Dwight. Now it's becoming more common. If Chris Bosh was on a team that had more success last season, he would be getting mentioned a lot more in the 'best big man' debate...he had a tremendous season, especially before the injury. And if Yao ever comes back healthy, he'll reclaim his spot as the best low post scorer in the league.

 

Tim Duncan has even more accolades and anyone who thinks Duncan is still better than Gasol is probably living on nostalgia.

 

Do you think Dirk could be the second option of a championship team? With the defensive lapses he has, and the fact that he's essentially a jump shooter, a very good defense can take him away. What's he going to do with Garnett and Wallace's long arms draped over him. Keep shooting?

 

During last year's postseason, Gasol badly outplayed Howard. It was clear who was better. And it wasn't like Orlando was full of stiffs. Aside from a terrible Game One, and Rafer Alston's consistently awful play, the Magic got good performances out of a lot of their secondary players. Dwight still had no answer.

 

And you send a double at Yao, and its over. you send a double at Dwight Howard on the move and it's over. Gasol can take a double team and make a perfect pass.

 

That's what the Lakers did to Yao last year when he was essentially a non-factor.

 

Also, you can't expect Yao to come back and be his old self. When I did my Top 30 rankings last offseason, I slotted in Garnett ahead of Gasol under the assumption that KG would be the same as he was pre-injury. Now, it's not close again who the better player is.

 

Chris Bosh too? You know what, let's just go around naming every halfway decent big man in the league and assume that player is better than Gasol, ignoring that the majority of these players have had lapses in play, or aren't well-rounded, or don't play in the paint enough, or can't handle double teams or physicality.

 

Al Jefferson is better than Gasol.

Zach Randolph is better than Gasol. Just look at those offensive numbers.

Amare Stoudemire? No brainer.

Andrew Bynum is the real Lakers best big man.

Chris Kaman, bring him aboard!

 

All these players are first options and Gasol's a second option so they're better.

 

Hell, Antawn Jamison. People thought he was going to push the Cavs over the top. He can score in the post, he's a former all-star. Hybrid scorer, let's add him.

 

David Lee's numbers are off the charts, and he's a first option. Let's stick him in LA and watch the Lakers win even more rings.

 

 

There's this myth that players who are second options are somehow worse than other players who are first options. People brought it up with the Artest trade especially. If all of these players are on the Lakers, the Lakers are easier to stop than with Gasol. All of them.

 

Some you just counter by attacking them on the defensive end, or they don't provide the alert help that Gasol provides. Others don't pass as well, so when you trap a screen/roll, or you dump it down into the post and you double, the team has to reset.

 

Bosh has two playoff appearances in his career against average teams. His first series he shoots under 40% against Jason Collins and Mikki Moore and Josh Boone. The next year, he does nothing on the boards or defense against the Magic.

 

This year, he "anchors" one of the worst defenses in recent history, and can't step up against teams like the Sixers, Warriors and the Kings in early May when Toronto's playoff lives are at stake. How do you get outplayed by Sacramento's frontcourt.

 

This is a guy you want as your second option OVER Gasol who simply makes the right plays over and over again, and hasn't been stopped this postseason. And don't say, "but Kobe, but Kobe," when the Lakers post Gasol, he gets doubled too and makes shots and assists as if he were a team's number one option.

[Nitro]

Tim Duncan has even more accolades and anyone who thinks Duncan is still better than Gasol is probably living on nostalgia.

 

Tim Duncan is well past his prime. Dirk Nowitzki just came off one of his best seasons. Horrible example.

 

Do you think Dirk could be the second option of a championship team? With the defensive lapses he has, and the fact that he's essentially a jump shooter, a very good defense can take him away. What's he going to do with Garnett and Wallace's long arms draped over him. Keep shooting?

 

Do I think Dirk can be the 2nd option of a championship team? Hell yes, he came within 2 wins of winning a championship as a 1st option.

 

And yes, he's essentially a jumpshooter...so what? He's one of the elite jumpshooters in the league, and unlike other pure jumpshooters he gets to the line 7-8x every single year. And despite being primarily a jumpshooter, it hasn't stopped him from averaging 26/11 for his career in the post-season on solid shooting percentages across the board.

 

During last year's postseason, Gasol badly outplayed Howard. It was clear who was better. And it wasn't like Orlando was full of stiffs. Aside from a terrible Game One, and Rafer Alston's consistently awful play, the Magic got good performances out of a lot of their secondary players. Dwight still had no answer.

 

And you send a double at Yao, and its over. you send a double at Dwight Howard on the move and it's over. Gasol can take a double team and make a perfect pass.

 

That's what the Lakers did to Yao last year when he was essentially a non-factor.

 

Also, you can't expect Yao to come back and be his old self. When I did my Top 30 rankings last offseason, I slotted in Garnett ahead of Gasol under the assumption that KG would be the same as he was pre-injury. Now, it's not close again who the better player is.

 

As I said, after Dirk you can make a great case for Gasol against any other big men. You can't simply use a playoff series 1-on-1 matchup to determine who the better player is though. Gasol was punked by Amare Stoudemire and Dirk Nowitzki in the postseason with the Grizzlies, getting swept both times and never grabbing over 7.5RPG. Dwight is the kind of player that even if his offensive game never evolves, his teams are always going to get deep into the postseason even as his supporting cast changes. As badly as the Celtics exposed his game, he still made a big impact with 22/11/3. I'll be the first to tell you he's one of the most overrated players in the league and not as great defensively as most claim him to be, but he's always going to be a bigger impact player than Gasol.

 

As for Yao, for years he had a horrible offensive cast and coach (JVG) to work with yet still got his 25PPG in relatively limited minutes (33-35 was the norm). I watched the Rockets religously from 2005-2009, and the only thing that ever stopped Yao was his foul-prone nature and stamina. When he had a bad game, it was usually because he'd get in foul trouble early and mentally would get taken out of the game. This started to change when he took over T-Mac's role as the team's go-to player, but nontheless it was what it was. Pau has more moves than Yao does, and slightly better range, but he also has more moves and range than a prime Shaq. When you're talking about a 7'6'' player with unbelievable touch and talent, the slightly better versatility Gasol offers doesn't mean much.

 

And yeah, I know it's unfair to expect Yao to come back the same player he was. But that's all we have to judge from at the moment. If I were to rank the top players coming into next season I wouldn't even list Yao because we don't know what to expect. But you were critiquing Yao as the player he was pre-injury, so I went along with it.

 

Chris Bosh too? You know what, let's just go around naming every halfway decent big man in the league and assume that player is better than Gasol, ignoring that the majority of these players have had lapses in play, or aren't well-rounded, or don't play in the paint enough, or can't handle double teams or physicality.

 

Al Jefferson is better than Gasol.

Zach Randolph is better than Gasol. Just look at those offensive numbers.

Amare Stoudemire? No brainer.

Andrew Bynum is the real Lakers best big man.

Chris Kaman, bring him aboard!

 

All these players are first options and Gasol's a second option so they're better.

 

Hell, Antawn Jamison. People thought he was going to push the Cavs over the top. He can score in the post, he's a former all-star. Hybrid scorer, let's add him.

 

David Lee's numbers are off the charts, and he's a first option. Let's stick him in LA and watch the Lakers win even more rings.

 

Oh c'mon now...before the injury Bosh was the most dangerous offensive big man in the league. From October-February he was averaging 24.5PPG and grabbing 11.4RPG. Toronto was 29-23 before his injury. That was with Hedo Turkoglu having the worst year of his career and for the most part a team of scrubs/young talent. The team went 3-4 in his absence, and he came back from injury still not playing healthy. As a result, the team went AWOL and he's on the path to a new team this summer.

 

As for his defense, Bosh will never be the shot-blocking defensive presence that traditional big men are, but he showed in the 2008 Olympics how good he can be defensively. He was the team's best interior defender that Olympics, and showed his versatility in locking down many of the Euro big men that can take it outside. And unlike an Amare Stoudemire or Antawn Jamison, he cleans the glass among the best in the league. He's far from a defensive liability.

 

Bosh has two playoff appearances in his career against average teams. His first series he shoots under 40% against Jason Collins and Mikki Moore and Josh Boone. The next year, he does nothing on the boards or defense against the Magic.

 

This year, he "anchors" one of the worst defenses in recent history, and can't step up against teams like the Sixers, Warriors and the Kings in early May when Toronto's playoff lives are at stake. How do you get outplayed by Sacramento's frontcourt.

 

Once again...c'mon now. Bosh is not the same player he was in 07-08, his last postseason appearance, just like Gasol isn't. And even though you criticize his series against the Magic, he still averaged 24/9/4 on 47% shooting...the kind of numbers Gasol never came close to in the postseason with the Grizzlies. And he won a game...something Gasol couldn't do in 3 straight postseasons.

 

And those games you mentioned from this year were literally RIGHT after he came back from weeks on the sideline. A few weeks later he put up 28/12/7 against the Warriors and 42/13 and 5 steals against Philly. And earlier in the year he put up 36/11/5 against the Kings.

 

This is a guy you want as your second option OVER Gasol who simply makes the right plays over and over again, and hasn't been stopped this postseason. And don't say, "but Kobe, but Kobe," when the Lakers post Gasol, he gets doubled too and makes shots and assists as if he were a team's number one option.

 

Bosh has never been the 2nd option so I'll hold off judging him in that role, although that is likely to change next season when he may team up with LeBron or D-Wade. But we have seen Gasol in the first option role and IMO Bosh's resume is clearly more impressive than Gasol's in that role. And as I mentioned before, if the 2008 Olympics are any indication, Bosh can do many of the little things that a great 2nd option has to do. I'm very excited to see him perform with a legit star and supporting cast playing around him. I think he'll flourish.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Dwight: 1st option

Gasol: 2nd option.

Hahaa funny. Dwight has a lot of players on his team with 10+ points a game so of ourse even if he's the #1 option his PPG is gonna be less than a lot of other #1options. He has Jameer Nelson who averages 12.6 PPG, 16.6 PPG, 14.1 PPG, so all those guys take the touches he coul get but he dosen' t and if he did get some fo those touches he would be averaging 25+ points. The Lakers don't have a teaam that like this. Kobe gets hsi touches no matter what and Gasol gets a lot of touches as well. He has a similar number to Dwight when it comes to touches. And the rest of the touches get leftover to the team. Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum get more touches than Lewis, Dwight, and Carter get.

Edited June 10, 2010 by AllenIverson#1fan