GM4: Los Angeles (2) @ Boston (1)

[Sky]

Poe - I haven't posted here most of the year. Fans will tend to blame anything but players and turn to coaches or ref whining, etc. So it's fair game to call folks out on that. But I sincerely believe that Jackson made a mistake in this one.

 

You raise a good point that Jackson has other motives at work. He's not just managing a game but a series and that can be lost in a focus on the immediate now. Bynum sits for series purposes. I get that and agree with it. But not using what's left on your bench as you are getting absolutely shredded defensively due to gassed players and no anchor is just being stubborn, particularly when you have a shot blocker on that bench. There is no larger motive at play there, it's just a function of his priorities and biases. He chose to let Rome burn. I disagree with that choice.

 

There are many authors in a loss. The main one in this one is time. LA was gassed, road game after one day's rest and Gasol is tired, Kobe doesn't have the same lift or acceleration and both make mistakes tired. Pau becomes a spectator on D, Kobe makes way too many turnovers, Odom puts on the invisibility cloak, etc. It's not just on Jackson by any means, but he did make a key contribution to the defeat.

 

This is the last game with more than one day's rest. LA has to seize the opportunity that comes from it. Gasol has been the Laker in these playoffs who has benefited most from rest, followed by Kobe. Both need to play focused smart basketball in traffic to carry them to a game 5 win. I have confidence that they can do it.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Sky

[Celtics3420]

http://i45.tinypic.com/2v8nwgj.jpg

 

 

Pierce doing(unintentionally) what every fan on this board wishes they could do to a ref and not face consequences

[The Regime]

Well I missed the second half of last nights game, but didn't even care to watch the highlights after I found out we lost. I've been saying it all series, give Pau more touches. He has been efficient with the low volume of shots that he has put up.

 

Also lol at Davis scoring 18 points, that just cant happen. We need to bounce back and win game 5, imo we've been in control of this series. I'll treat game 5 as a must win, there just is no way we couldn't win one game at Staples. Heck we've only lost one game at Staples this postseason.

[Real Deal]

Poe, what coach really keeps a game close, intentionally? If Phil does that in the regular season, and you consider that smart, that's probably why we lost home court advantage to Cleveland and Orlando. And if you consider THAT move smart, I don't know what to say.

 

The Kobe/Shaq Lakers were blowing teams out every chance they got. The 72-win Bulls were doing the same. All you do is win if you're a championship-caliber coach.

 

And definitely no knock on Phil Jackson's ability to win rings, but you have to keep in mind that he did win them all with Jordan and Kobe, the two best overall players to ever play the game (and Shaq, most dominant center ever). Jackson has coached teams that didn't even get out of the second round (Pippen's Bulls, Kobe's Lakers in 2006 and 2007, and even the dynasty Lakers lost to San Antonio in the second, in 2003). He makes as many mistakes as anyone else involved with the franchise.

 

Many question why he delays his timeouts...so we aren't the only ones to do it. He will let the second unit struggle for two extra minutes, giving up an extra 6-7 points and destroying a lead, before calling a timeout that was LONG overdue. When have you seen that second unit actually play through it and recapture the lead, after blowing it? Never.

 

If his plan is to develop our players, so be it...but in that case, he must be doing a terrible job at that also, because our bench is still among the worst in the NBA after all the years they've played under Phil Jackson.

[Poe]

Of course coaches don't try and do everything they can to keep games close, but they'll do certain things to put more pressure on the players to pull through. Players can't always expect coaches to give an easy way out, so during the regular season, it is best to make sure that players are prepared. I'll always take a mentally ready team over home court advantage.

 

I'm not an expert on Phil's coaching style, so I don't have all the answers up my sleeve. A possible explanation to keeping the bench in longer during important playoff games could be because he needs to give starters an extra rest so they'll still be fresh enough by the end of the game to hold on and win. If he puts the starters back in too early, then perhaps they'll wear out and wind up losing critical end-game possessions.

 

Don't quote me on that because I'm not entirely sure of it. I'm merely suggesting that there could be other explanations to Jackson's decision making that goes beyond what's directly in front of you. I'll repeat myself over and over, but this guy is a 10 time champ, and if there is anyone I trust on how to win championships in the NBA, it's Phil Jackson, not an active member on a basketball forum. Not that Phil Jackson can't make mistakes and nobody beneath him in basketball knowledge could possibly prove him wrong, I'm just inclined to believe that Phil is right much more often than wrong than anyone else.

 

 

Also, Jordan and Kobe won 0 rings without Phil. Shaq won 1 with Pat Riley. It's a pointless move to point out who was on his team when it works both ways.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Poe

[Check my Stats]

Only 6 pages? C'mon OTR step your game up I was expecting this thread to be double plat. Missed most the game but Nate is a stud, get this kid 30 minutes a night when he at home, he was roasting while he was out there, and he loves putting on a show for the crowd.

[Sky]

Jackson explained why he did what he did in today's press conference. He said that since Mbenga hasn't played for a long time he's lost a competitive edge and is "kind of vacant." Thing is by not trusting him to begin with Jackson created that. Anyway, Phil did say he will play Powell and now recognizes the need to go with a deeper rotation in games where the players on the floor are gassed. So to his credit he recognizes he goofed. Jackson left gassed players on the floor and Boston scored on seven straight possessions as a result. You can't just let that ride.

 

As for the regular season, Phil likes to avoid time outs to let players figure it out and I agree with that philosophy. Where I disagree is that he pulls the bench so late that the lead starters built is gone by the time they return. On one hands you can argue that builds mental toughness, but one of the Lakers biggest flaws in recent years is mental stamina. Bringing starters back after the lead is eliminated can create mental exhaustion. This team only plays hard for as long as absolutely required and not a nanosecond longer. Therefore leads aren't maintained and teams make runs. LA is incapable of keeping a team down. Part of that is just the NBA, teams will make runs, part of it is also LA's lack of mental stamina.

[Real Deal]

I'll repeat myself over and over, but this guy is a 10 time champ, and if there is anyone I trust on how to win championships in the NBA, it's Phil Jackson, not an active member on a basketball forum. Not that Phil Jackson can't make mistakes and nobody beneath him in basketball knowledge could possibly prove him wrong, I'm just inclined to believe that Phil is right much more often than wrong than anyone else.

So, in other words, why even question what any single NBA player does? They are the professionals, not us. They achieved something that we didn't. They are obviously better basketball players than we are...so why even question anything, ever?

 

Also, Jordan and Kobe won 0 rings without Phil. Shaq won 1 with Pat Riley. It's a pointless move to point out who was on his team when it works both ways.

Never said Jordan and Kobe didn't mess up from time to time, either.

[Poe]

Jackson explained why he did what he did in today's press conference. He said that since Mbenga hasn't played for a long time he's lost a competitive edge and is "kind of vacant." Thing is by not trusting him to begin with Jackson created that. Anyway, Phil did say he will play Powell and now recognizes the need to go with a deeper rotation in games where the players on the floor are gassed. So to his credit he recognizes he goofed. Jackson left gassed players on the floor and Boston scored on seven straight possessions as a result. You can't just let that ride.

Then I suppose I was wrong, though it looks like Jackson did explain why he doesn't trust Mbenga. If Bynum can't play, though, I agree that he does need at least one sub to give the bigs a rest, and though Powell isn't the ideal player, it's better than wearing your best players out by overplaying them.

 

The biggest issue I see personally has nothing to do with Jackson's coaching. Bynum needs to be healthy, and it's harder for me to see the Lakers winning the championship without him. With him, the Lakers match up well enough to have a clear advantage from both the guards and the bigs (as long as Ray Allen isn't setting records from the arc and Bryant isn't sitting out from foul trouble). Without him, it becomes Pau-Odom-Powell versus Garnett-Perkins-Davis-Wallace match up in the front court, and one of those guys in green will get an advantage, especially if Pau and Odom start to fatigue from extended playing time.

 

 

So, in other words, why even question what any single NBA player does? They are the professionals, not us. They achieved something that we didn't. They are obviously better basketball players than we are...so why even question anything, ever?

Of course you can question everything. That's why I said this:

 

Not that Phil Jackson can't make mistakes and nobody beneath him in basketball knowledge could possibly prove him wrong, I'm just inclined to believe that Phil is right much more often than wrong than anyone else.

Edited June 12, 2010 by Poe

[Sky]

Poe - You're absolutely right that Bynum's health will be key. They're going to drain his knee again and his doc in New York is going to have a look at it as well. Drew wants to play, but no one can know how his knee will react. Odom has to be prepared to be physical or the Lakers are at risk. Boston has more big depth but that can change if Sheed gets tech #7. While Perk can contain his emotions to avoid the 7th I'm not sure that Sheed can, he's just too impulsive.

 

Gasol and Kobe will be really helped by the two day rest. I expect both to be back in a big way and that will help both close in the 4th on both ends. Boston gets the rest too, but LA can't win without Kobe and Pau close to 100%, barring another Fisher miracle.

 

One thing I'm hoping for is that Kobe's legacy is on the line here and his game rises accordingly. You want to become the greatest Laker ever you have to slay the green dragon. Otherwise Magic will likely always be ahead of him. It's the final step in Bryant's ascendance - and he knows it. So hopefully, from a Laker fan perspective, Bryant's baby sky moment is approaching. He needs a legacy game, winning game 5 in Boston can accomplish that.

[Real Deal]

Not only physical, but Odom has to also play with a sense of urgency. I felt as if he was out there just to be on the court at times, and when he finally started scoring the ball here and there, his defense was still part of his no-show act.

 

When Ray threw that reverse layup on him, after taking Odom baseline, it made me sick. Odom looked lazy...as in, giving-up-lazy.

 

Odom can have massive games, and we saw that against the Suns...and when he does, Bynum isn't as important. However, Odom has proven to us that he can't put out against Boston. He failed to do so in 2008, and he's failing to do so again now. Maybe it's just the big stage, or maybe it's the Celtics...but nonetheless, he's not getting it done.

 

And because he's not getting it done, Bynum's presence is needed more than ever.

 

If Odom is still a no-show, and the draining doesn't help Drew, the series goes to seven, and the Lakers are in danger. In that case, we'll need Kobe and Gasol to turn into a mirror image of the Kobe and Shaq duo of the dynasty, and I don't think that's possible.

[SRT Spidey]

so how does everyone feel about the last 2 or 3 games in the series? LA fans worried at all? I can't bear to watch game 6 if we somehow drop another game to LA in Boston..should be interesting.

[kingfish]

so how does everyone feel about the last 2 or 3 games in the series? LA fans worried at all? I can't bear to watch game 6 if we somehow drop another game to LA in Boston..should be interesting.

Im concerned but not worried. So far we have won the starting lineup battle, and we have adjusted to everything the starters have thrown at us. Its the bench that has killed even our starters. We have to go to the drawing board and figure out how to contain the bench and keep Big Baby out of the paint. Once we adjust to that I think we will be fine, this is why having Phil Jackson as the coach is a big factor.

[Cobb]

Thank goodness for the World Cup! I'd be bored out of my mind with having something else to watch during the three day wait.