I wish NBA games were more like Soccer games

[Multi-Billionaire]

Watching this World Cup, I wish NBA can make its games more like soccer where it's about the game, not about "everything else" surrounding the game.

 

In soccer:

- There's no game music... the only sound you hear is the thuds of the ball kicked, the fans, the whistles of the refs, the commentator and that's it. You really focus on the game. What do we see/ hear in an NBA game? Fireworks, bloody arena musics that dominate the game you can't hear dribbles or players' shoes squeaking anymore, cheerleaders showing off their boobs and asses

 

- Continuous game play... obviously there's timeout with basketball. But what annoys me a lot is these players' interview videos during a freakin game... hey the game is goin on, it's just a dead play. I don't want to hear what Amare Stoudemire has to say about Lamar Odom that "he had a lucky game" in an interview from the day before. And these "NBA Cares" showing off after every break... I really applaud the NBA for its marketing genius, but it has to be toned down.

 

- Refs do not dominate the game. In soccer, refs are refs... they make sure the game is played properly and they will make calls. But they don't care if you're Cristiano Ronaldo/ Messi... if you're offside, you're offside. If you tackle hard the wrong way, you get called for "defensive foul"... if it's excessive, it's yellow card. You object/ [expletive] like Kobe whenever he gets his shots blocked clean, and you get sent off. What do we see in NBA? If you're LeBron James you're allowed to take crab steps, or as we all know, the star/ superstar treatments. Best of all, soccer refs will give you a yellow card for flopping... a red card if you dare it to do it twice. I witnessed it when a ref gave a yellow card to Ozil (Germany-Australia) because he flopped... what do we see if Wade flops? He goes to the freakin FT line.

 

 

So I feel like in an NBA game, it's more about superstars/ big names like Kobe, Wade, LeBron... and "the happenings" in an arena, rather than the basketball itself. If NBA can't make its games more like soccer, then I really hope it can make them at least more like NCAA games... I read a SLAM article from a few years back, and I agree when a writer said (not the exact quote but something like), "in NBA game it felt like you go to a rock concert where there happens to be a basketball game." I agree.

 

When you have no fanfare/ side things, you have no options but to focus on the game. I think it's no coincidence soccer has billions of fans worldwide, while basketball has yet to reach that billion mark. I really think if NBA can adopt an approach where it focuses on the game, instead of the marketing side of the game, it will really attract the adult fans... those 30-60 year old who ditch NBA games because they're more like soap operas/ drama episodes than real sport. The game will be more exciting to watch... as they all say, "I let my game speak for myself". I wish NBA can do the same.

 

Especially the freakin refs... this NBA ref domination has to stop. I can accept if it's about superstars, but the fact that we all know NBA refs names like Salvatore, Bavetta, Eddie Rush, Joe DeRosa, not just the obvious "Tim Donaghy", makes it clear this game is also about the freakin refs. I don't pay money to see a ref "dominates" the game. Name me a soccer ref, I bet you can't. I pay money to see the game... I can give in and accept paying money to see superstars dominate... but one thing I can't stand is paying money to see refs dominate a game.

[Sun Tzu]

You forgot about the horns in the World Cup that never seem to stop ^_^

 

To some extent I agree with you about the part about the refs.

[Real Deal]

So I feel like in an NBA game, it's more about superstars/ big names like Kobe, Wade, LeBron...

You forgot Carmelo Anthony.

[moeroadkill]

You forgot Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant

[Multi-Billionaire]

You forgot about the horns in the World Cup that never seem to stop ^_^

 

They're from fans and to be honest they should be the only "musics" in a sports game. Obviously, the Knicks have their signature piano music, Lakers have their theme Hollywood musics, Bulls have that signature "defense" music since MJ era that Cavs blantantly copy, but they have to be toned down not because they're bad... but so fans can really immerse themselves in a basketball/ sporting environment.

[Poe]

I agree with a lot of what you said, though I don't agree that it needs to take example from other sports necessarily.

 

I do agree that refs need to be removed completely as a focal point. It seems that half the time you are watching an important game, you can't help but say to yourself "oh what a bad call" and you hear moments later when the crowd sees the replay sudden shouts and boos, and looking back at important games, there is always at least one call that you can't help but feel "had they called it right, the outcome may have changed".

 

And the idea that reffing in the NBA is bad is not just opinion, but common knowledge. It's so bad that owners, general managers, coaches, and even players are getting fined for simply expressing their opinion about them. David Stern seems to think the better solution to this is to fine people within the organization rather than fix the problem itself. Bad reffing is not a small matter that people can just forget about, it affects the game itself. Had reffing been perfect throughout NBA history, a lot of things may have changed.

 

No, I'm not asking for better refs. I think the NBA tries to get the best refs they can. They need to get more creative to find solutions, like incorporating technology. Perhaps allowing refs easier access to replays, where they can get calls correct and make the choice quickly, may change things for the better. There may be other solutions as well. It's not hard, just use your imagination.

 

 

Also, I agree with you about games being more of a stage act than a competition. I'm half french, and I had a french cousin of mine come over and watch an NBA game live, which was huge for him since he loves basketball as well. The first thing he pointed out to me was all the flash and show that distracted you from the actual game. It's like the NBA is afraid the fans will get bored or something.

 

The better solution, rather than having all the extra entertainment during stoppage of play, is to simply have less stoppage of play all-together. I don't mind 20 minute halftime break with the halftime show, but all the other things during time outs and such need to go, IMO as well. I think there should be less stoppage of play all-together, less time outs, less foul calls (meaning allow more physical play and less blown whistles, especially ticky tak fouls that can be called at any time), and less delays between action in general.

 

 

One more thing I'd like to mention is the NBA should expand. The NBA is by far the best basketball league in the world, and people all over the world watch it more than anything else (Euroleague, Chinese basketball association, etc). Imagine the increase in popularity if these other countries had their own teams to cheer for. Have a team in Mexico City, Vancouver, Paris, London, Berlin, Hong Kong, Beijing, etc. etc. Of course, this would need a huge overhaul to the schedule of teams, where road trips would include consecutive games overseas, but I'm sure there is a way to make it work.

 

BTW, that last idea isn't a must, but it is definitely something to consider IMO, especially with the popularity of basketball worldwide.

 

 

Edit: One last thing, but there is nothing wrong with the NBA being star driven. Stars raise the popularity of sports, and every sport.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Poe

[Flight]

You forgot Brian Scalabrine.

[Lone Wolf]

I heard the Spanish league for basketball has the atmosphere of a football (their football) game. Is that true?

[Multi-Billionaire]

[Replying to Poe]

 

I agree, it seems Stern doesn't know what else to do besides being defensive when it comes to his refs... and he's gonna fine people who [expletive] about his refs, instead of fixing the problem... when it's not only 2-3 people complaining but basically the whole freakin NBA, including the Lakers themselves haha ^___^ and the fans as well!

 

Talking about distractions, I bet there's plenty in a Lakers STAPLES Center with these movie stars... I can imagine if I was to visit STAPLES Center, I would buy me a popcorn. POPCORN! It's like you expect to be entertained in an NBA game in much the same way you expect to be entertained in a much anticipated Hollywood movie. But when it comes to NCAA/ soccer games, how many fans are there eating popcorn? They don't have time to eat popcorn... they're completely involved in the game. They don't come to soccer games to be entertained, they come to watch competition... between two good teams.

 

 

I would agree with less calls, but the refs have to make sure it doesn't turn back time into the 1980s Detroit Pistons. In fact, I think NBA has been oversensitive about it... we're now seeing players from opposing teams hug and kiss each other before a game.

 

 

Expansion would mean problems in the transport... you can't expect the Bulls to go to Europe to play an NBA London team and then go back to the States for a next game on the next day on a back-to-back. Maybe there should be NBA which consists of the current 30 teams in the States, and then NBA Asia consisting of, say 10 teams, and NBA Europe consisting of 16 teams, etc. Then the top 1-2 teams from Asia and Europe have a shot to be in the NBA playoffs. lol

 

 

I don't disagree with (super)stars. But it becomes a problem when the refs make biased calls for them. Obviously, there are soccer fans who come to see Messi/ Ronaldo play... they also have their own merchandises/ marketings that dominate much of the Europe... but those "side things" don't come in the way of the actual soccer match/ game/ their skills shown in the game. You see a Heat game and halftime, Wade is promoting his things with Barkley... instead of focusing on the game, we're led by the NBA to see how Dwight Howard cares, digs tons of earth and paint to help re-build a local park, etc... and from thinking about the game, we suddenly think "oh Dwight is such a nice guy... *wakes up*... where were we? Oh yeah, Dwight just lost his cool and flagrant fouled Ray Allen, a 90% free throw shooter with the Celtics down only 1 in the final minute." And then they will show us a video from the day before the game where Dwight said Ray is nothing without his jumpshot (just example)... etc. In other words, in the course of an NBA game, we get distracted a lot from the actual game.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Snake

[Multi-Billionaire]

You forgot Carmelo Anthony.

 

Melo never flops.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't fault Wade or other NBA players for flopping, they're just being smart and taking advantage of what's given to them. The NBA allows flopping and it will continue to happen. They have to find ways to completely eliminate flopping because it really ruins the game. Take flopping away from Anderson Varejao and he might be another "good" instead of "very good" defensive player. If soccer can eliminate/ totally discourage players "don't you try to flop because you will pay", I believe NBA can do the same too. Flopping is acting, it's not sports, it's not really a skill because you have to master a sports skill over time sometimes it takes years, but you can master flopping in one day if Manu Ginobili shows you the "proper" way? Yes. It's nothing but acting, it's ruining the "sports" in the NBA.

 

I never mean to say super(stars) are bad, but when their image smiling on ads during a game... when I come to see a sports game, it really takes the juices of the sports away. That's why in an NBA game, you can eat popcorn/ order hotdog while it's going on, while in an NCAA game/ soccer you can't... because you're completely in the game. I thought NBA was like that once, but it disappeared.

[Poe]

Expansion would mean problems in the transport... you can't expect the Bulls to go to Europe to play an NBA London team and then go back to the States for a next game on the next day on a back-to-back. Maybe there should be NBA which consists of the current 30 teams in the States, and then NBA Asia consisting of, say 10 teams, and NBA Europe consisting of 16 teams, etc. Then the top 1-2 teams from Asia and Europe have a shot to be in the NBA playoffs. lol

 

A solution to that would be to have road trips that include consecutive games against European/Asian teams. Let's say a particular team has a three week road trip in Europe, for example, where you play 10 or so straight teams there. Or a European team has a four week road trip in the US where they play 15 straight teams. That's what I meant by an adjusted schedule.

 

 

I don't disagree with (super)stars. But it becomes a problem when the refs make biased calls for them. Obviously, there are soccer fans who come to see Messi/ Ronaldo play... they also have their own merchandises/ marketings that dominate much of the Europe... but those "side things" don't come in the way of the actual soccer match/ game/ their skills shown in the game. You see a Heat game and halftime, Wade is promoting his things with Barkley... instead of focusing on the game, we're led by the NBA to see how Dwight Howard cares, digs tons of earth and paint to help re-build a local park, etc... and from thinking about the game, we suddenly think "oh Dwight is such a nice guy... *wakes up*... where were we? Oh yeah, Dwight just lost his cool and flagrant fouled Ray Allen, a 90% free throw shooter with the Celtics down only 1 in the final minute." And then they will show us a video from the day before the game where Dwight said Ray is nothing without his jumpshot (just example)... etc. In other words, in the course of an NBA game, we get distracted a lot from the actual game.

 

Well, obviously biased calls need to go if they do exist. Personally, I don't see it too often. Stars get to the line more often simply because they have the ball in their hands more and take more shots. The reffing is very offensive oriented, though, where the offensive player almost always has the advantage simply because the basketball is in his hands. For example, why does a defender need to be perfectly still to draw a charge, but an offensive player can move to draw contact to get to the line?

 

As for ads, those don't bother me one bit. Nor do comments from players. I think it's nice to hear the opinion of the players themselves, as long as they aren't trying to be as politically correct as possible and actually gave their honest opinion without the fear of being fined (like Sheed and Stan Van Gundy). The halftime and post game interviews annoy me though, since the reporters normally have very meaningless questions. I wish more players gave the "ball" comment that Turkoglu did once.

 

 

I do dislike a lot of the other distractions, like interviewing movie stars during the game, and things like that. When it's not advertisement, they should try and focus on the cameras on the court as much as possible. Maybe save the player comment clips you were talking about for halftime or something.

 

Also, this is just a pet peeve of mine, but I absolutely hate the baseline angle during fast breaks. I don't mind it on replays, but please not during live action.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Poe

[Real Deal]

My point was, I feel like this is more driven towards the current situation of the Denver Nuggets and not the NBA as a whole. If Denver were in the Finals, I don't think you would've posted this topic.

[Multi-Billionaire]

My point was, I feel like this is more driven towards the current situation of the Denver Nuggets and not the NBA as a whole. If Denver were in the Finals, I don't think you would've posted this topic.

 

You're wrong there sir. This is not about the Nuggets, or Lakers.

 

But you really don't think flopping is ruining the NBA? You've watched NCAA games, you don't think it can be more intense than NBA games? You don't agree that NBA games have a lot more "side fanfares" than any other sports event besides probably WWE if you consider it a sport.

 

It's hard to completely immerse yourself in an NBA game thesedays... I just wanna watch basketball, two great teams... give me less (super)stars doing their things... instead I wanna watch how those (super)stars make the game easy, make their team lethal, make their teams dangerous collectively as a unit. It's so hard to really feel involved in an NBA game.

 

Obviously, the Nuggets are not there, but I don't have a favorite soccer team either, not even Australia, and I wasn't even watching it live... but I felt like watching real sport in a long time just watching South Korea beating Greece... or they all say Messi is magic with the soccer ball, so I watched Argentina vs Nigeria, and I still felt like it was a collective group effort, not just Messi. It's safe to say I know much more about basketball than I do know about soccer... but I get excited watching just one soccer game (I know it's World Cup, but I repeat none of the teams is a favorite).

 

 

You also don't agree with the refs blowing their whistles as if they hope to be in TV commercials one day? Like "Ken Mauer uses Bryllcreem for his hair in an NBA game. What is your choice?" They put their stamps on the game so much, it's hard not to ignore them. I can even spell their names right. Name me a soccer ref name, you can't. A sports ref is there to make sure the game flows properly and is played by the rules by participating teams... it's safe to say the NBA refs have made it much more than that. You see a soccer ref calling a penalty in a draw game, and that's a big call... but you don't see that in EVERY soccer game. It seems with NBA games, there must be a big call by a ref in EVERY close game. It's a huge difference. It's a shame we're paying money to see these refs. And Stern doesn't help by fining everyone who opens their mouth to criticizes them. It's a shame. Being an NBA ref must feel nice, because when someone criticizes you for a mistake, they get fined. No wonder these refs started to feel like they're invincible and develop a "don't mess with me" attitude... Kendrick Perkins turning his back is viewed as "disrespectful" and he got tossed. Sure it got rescinded a day later, but did the outcome affect that game for the Celtics? Yes. These refs are being protected by Stern more secure than people paying mafias protection money. Nothing they ever do is a mistake... and if it is, it's too late. It makes them more powerful than the stars. I'm sick of seeing these refs names and faces up close... and whistling like "they are the rules" instead of enforcing the rules. How many times are you worried who's reffing the game if your fave NBA team is playing in the playoffs? How often do we see NBA forum posters posting "refs for tonight's game:"... for all his brilliance marketing NBA in USA and overseas, I do think Stern is an idiot for blatantly disregarding this very aspect of the game. The ref domination must cease. Strip their powers... it's getting ridiculous.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Snake

[Poe]

My point was, I feel like this is more driven towards the current situation of the Denver Nuggets and not the NBA as a whole. If Denver were in the Finals, I don't think you would've posted this topic.

Why would you say that when he didn't even mention Melo or the Nuggets in the first place...?

[Real Deal]

Why would you say that when he didn't even mention Melo or the Nuggets in the first place...?

Because I don't see the point of it. You can't model the sport of basketball after soccer. Referees have much different roles, and the entertainment during stoppage of play (timeout, halftime) is completely irrelevant to all of this. The sport is even less physical. Superstars? Without goalies, every soccer game becomes a double-digit affair.

 

Scoring a goal does not compare to scoring a basket, either...not even close. The greatest soccer player can score three goals in a game and become a hero for that number. Smush Parker can shoot three baskets, and nobody cares.

 

But what if a soccer player dropped, say, 10 goals a game? That's a superstar...but hell, you don't even get that opportunity in soccer.

 

I just don't see the reason to even compare the two, or to even want it to be similar to soccer. Basically, it was the referee comments that got me thinking it was more about the Nuggets than anything else, and the fact that Snake was pretty hard on Carmelo acting like a superstar (and not a teammate) over the last two or three Denver playoff runs (and he made comments about it).

[moeroadkill]

go watch the nbl snake if u dont like the nba, superstars and the ref dominating the games

Edited June 14, 2010 by MoeRoadKill

[Multi-Billionaire]

Because I don't see the point of it. You can't model the sport of basketball after soccer. Referees have much different roles, and the entertainment during stoppage of play (timeout, halftime) is completely irrelevant to all of this. The sport is even less physical.

 

Why can't you model the atmosphere? Too much musics and going ons in an NBA game. NCAA games feel much more like a sporting event than an NBA game.

 

Soccer is less physical? You get tackled almost every time when you dribble the ball. I think the correct statement would be, it's less physical upper-body wise in soccer than it is in basketball. But likewise I can say it is more physical lower-body wise in soccer than it is in basketball. You get soccer players down on the field grabbing their legs/ ankles every few minutes... genuinely in pain (the chances of flopping/ acting in soccer are a lot less than they would be in basketball simply because soccer refs will yellow-card actors). How can this sport be notably less physical than basketball that it has to factor in? During free kick, players are pushing and elbowing each other for positions.

 

 

 

Superstars? Without goalies, every soccer game becomes a double-digit affair.

 

Scoring a goal does not compare to scoring a basket, either...not even close. The greatest soccer player can score three goals in a game and become a hero for that number. Smush Parker can shoot three baskets, and nobody cares.

 

But what if a soccer player dropped, say, 10 goals a game? That's a superstar...but hell, you don't even get that opportunity in soccer.

 

Without goalies, soccer wouldn't be a sport. Without defenders in the paint, I guess Kobe, Wade, and LeBron will average less FT per game but still average 50.0 ppg anyway. It wouldn't be a sport either.

 

Are you suggesting the lack of scoring in soccer makes soccer superstars less of a star than basketball superstars? Are you suggesting it's not watchable because it severely lacks scoring in straight comparison to basketball? You said you can't model the sports of basketball after soccer (when I wasn't exactly doing it, but trying to model "the atmosphere" of a soccer game into a basketball game), so how you can you compare the offenses between the two sports? LOL gotcha

 

 

 

I just don't see the reason to even compare the two, or to even want it to be similar to soccer. Basically, it was the referee comments that got me thinking it was more about the Nuggets than anything else, and the fact that Snake was pretty hard on Carmelo acting like a superstar (and not a teammate) over the last two or three Denver playoff runs (and he made comments about it).

 

So you're fine with the NBA refs? I'm one of those guys who don't really like superstar system, and I'd rather watch teams not individuals, but I do admit star system helps the popularity of the sport. You can't help but be giddy with Messi's fine footwork and skills in soccer although you've never followed soccer before... it draws non-fans into the sport and opens the window for those non-fans to turn into fans. I will not pay to watch superstars unless it's a record setting night like Kobe when he had 81 pts... but it's highly unlikely. I think individual stats are lame... when you can spin your NBA Live or 2K on the PS3 and have Kobe to score 50 ppg in a season. But I will say this, I'd rather pay to watch superstars than pay to watch the game being completely dominated by refs, which can happen in NBA games than in any other sport.

 

 

Poe was right, I didn't even mention the Nuggets and you had to bring them up as if this was about them being treated unfairly. We didn't even meet in the playoffs this year... and that Utah series, did I ever mention the refs being unfair? I [expletive]ed about the Jazz fans yes, but not the refs.

 

But the ref system in NBA clearly has a problem when the team (Lakers), perceived worldwide to have most ref support, has its coach come out in the media and get fined tens of thousands for criticizing the refs and he keeps doing it as if to make a point... you can kind of imagine how it would be to other teams. But I maintain, this is not about the Nuggets... and if you feel like I'm bashing NBA, I am but it doesn't mean I'm gonna ditch it for soccer anytime soon.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

I agree with you on the refs and nothing else. The music makes the game more funner. Would you rather listen to music or to a ball thuding on a court. Every sport has cheerleaders, the coaches can't fire them. Who would look at cheerleaders during a full NBA game. If you came to watch basketball you'll watch basketall not damn cheerleaders.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^I don't think soccer has cheerleaders

 

You wouldn't be distracted by cheerleaders and completely focus on the game? During Laker or Heat games? I dislike Lakers, but damn Laker girls, they're hard to ignore aren't they. I swear when the ball is on the end where they're sitting, I take quick glance at them and then back to the game. Even when Lakers are playing Nuggets.

[Real Deal]

Dude, I don't even get what you're saying.

 

I simply said that soccer isn't dominated by "superstars" because the roles of each player are different...and you can't change that because if you did, you'd be changing the entire sport and how it's played.

 

The only connection you can make between the two? A goalie and a basketball superstar. Both impact the game significantly more than anyone else. You play without a goalie, you're basically the worst team and you're going to lose every game. You play without a superstar, and you're in the same boat. But not even THAT connection matters.

 

So for you, it's all about two things: referees, and the halftime/timeout entertainment (and in-game music).

 

Are you kidding?

 

Halftime entertainment has nothing to do with the game...doesn't change anything about it. The entertainment is mainly for the kids and fans that have nothing to do during halftime. What else is there to do while players run to the back, rest, and adjust for the second half?

 

In-game music? That gets the fans involved even more (crowd chants, for example), and it also drives the players to play better (hearing the fans chanting "defense" to a tune, it makes them want to play better defense due to fan support). Again, no point in removing it.

 

You want to turn basketball into baseball. Good for you. There's a reason why I can't sit through nine dreadful innings of baseball, and while there are people that can, there are a ton of die-hard basketball fans that would rather watch the NBA.

[andreusito]

I heard the Spanish league for basketball has the atmosphere of a football (their football) game. Is that true?

Yes.

Music is not allowed during the game, only pre-game. Interviews not allowed till after the game either.

[Lone Wolf]

Yes.

Music is not allowed during the game, only pre-game. Interviews not allowed till after the game either.

I would love that.

[Nitro]

The NBA allows flopping and it will continue to happen. They have to find ways to completely eliminate flopping because it really ruins the game. Take flopping away from Anderson Varejao and he might be another "good" instead of "very good" defensive player. If soccer can eliminate/ totally discourage players "don't you try to flop because you will pay", I believe NBA can do the same too.

 

You do know that flopping is more associated with soccer than basketball, right?

 

And flopping in the NBA is a problem NOT because the refs or Stern "allow it." It seems like every fan and member of the media hates the idea of flopping, so why would Stern want his refs to blow the whistle if it's a flop? Flopping is a such a big problem because with players becoming more and more athletic and the game having such a fast pace, it's literally a tenth of a second decision to blow the whistle or not. Some flops are extremely blatant, but then comes the decision of whether there was enough contact in the first place to warrant a foul call, despite the flop.

 

It's not nearly as easy as it looks. While watching the game on TV we have the very best angle of the entire floor and have the benefit of replay. Trust me, when you're right on top of the action in person, the floor looks a lot smaller, the players look a lot bigger, and there's so much movement and action at such an intense speed. By far the hardest sport to ref.

 

As for your other gripes...eh, I agree with the in-game music to an extent. The defense/charge chants and similar chants I'm perfectly fine with because they do add to the game, but playing pop music with no relevance in the middle of the game gives the NBA an And1'ish feel. You don't see it nearly as much in the post-season, but I know where you're coming from. Halftime or during timeouts? Who cares, most times I've went to games the fans seem to enjoy the entertainment.

[Check my Stats]

All the posts are too long in this thread, dumb.

[JYD]

all the nba needs are some vuvuzelas and it will become unwatchable!