I wish NBA games were more like Soccer games

[Check my Stats]

All the NBA needs is a hard cap, make the league fair.

[Poe]

All the posts are too long in this thread, dumb.

In other words: Too Awesome; Didn't Read

[AllenIverson#1fan]

^I don't think soccer has cheerleaders

 

You wouldn't be distracted by cheerleaders and completely focus on the game? During Laker or Heat games? I dislike Lakers, but damn Laker girls, they're hard to ignore aren't they. I swear when the ball is on the end where they're sitting, I take quick glance at them and then back to the game. Even when Lakers are playing Nuggets.

Dude, if you freaking payed money to watch basketball you're gonna watch basketball not cheerleaders. There's time for them during time-out's and stuff.

[moeroadkill]

i dont think iv ever noticed the cheerleaders/fireworks once unless the camera is on them. which is hardly ever

[AllenIverson#1fan]

i dont think iv ever noticed the cheerleaders/fireworks once unless the camera is on them. which is hardly ever

Exactly.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Dude, I don't even get what you're saying.

 

I simply said that soccer isn't dominated by "superstars" because the roles of each player are different...and you can't change that because if you did, you'd be changing the entire sport and how it's played.

 

The only connection you can make between the two? A goalie and a basketball superstar. Both impact the game significantly more than anyone else. You play without a goalie, you're basically the worst team and you're going to lose every game. You play without a superstar, and you're in the same boat. But not even THAT connection matters.

 

No actually soccer superstars can dominate soccer games. Ronaldo in 2002 World Cup, Zidane in 2006 before he got sent off in the Finals. Noone in this year's World Cup can stay in front of Messi and he makes opposing coaches game plan specifically against him. He can literally go through 5-6 defenders from end to end. I also saw the Netherlands-Denmark game where it felt like sloppy game offensively until the Dutch subbed in their young phenom sub Elia and he basically changed the whole landscape and pace of the game. Initially sloppy, Netherlands started to penetrate to the box effectively with him spearheading the offense and created numerous opportunities that otherwise would not have been there and eventually it resulted in one big goal... That's just an example how soccer (super)stars can dominate soccer games just like NBA (super)stars can dominate basketball games.

 

And it's not only Messi, there are many superstars who have the same impact like Ronaldo, Rooney, Gerrard, Torres that dominate the sport. In fact, there should be more soccer superstars than there are in basketball.

 

 

 

So for you, it's all about two things: referees, and the halftime/timeout entertainment (and in-game music).

 

Are you kidding?

 

Halftime entertainment has nothing to do with the game...doesn't change anything about it. The entertainment is mainly for the kids and fans that have nothing to do during halftime. What else is there to do while players run to the back, rest, and adjust for the second half?

 

In-game music? That gets the fans involved even more (crowd chants, for example), and it also drives the players to play better (hearing the fans chanting "defense" to a tune, it makes them want to play better defense due to fan support). Again, no point in removing it.

 

You want to turn basketball into baseball. Good for you. There's a reason why I can't sit through nine dreadful innings of baseball, and while there are people that can, there are a ton of die-hard basketball fans that would rather watch the NBA.

 

I actually specifically mention "in-game". I can understand if you want some entertainment at halftime... but again, it's not just a comparison with soccer, which is mainly outside USA. Just compare NBA with USA sports like (as you mentioned) baseball or NCAA, which have minimal in-game "going ons" so it's 100% about the game.

 

Some people like their steak with thick gravy, some people like their steak bland. I'm just saying when you have no gravy, you can really taste the beef because it's the only thing on the plate. Have you had a course where you're served with steak, potato mash, salads, egg, prawns and scallops and gravy on top of the steak? It's like you specifically ordered steak and came with it a bunch of other things, which are not necessarily a bad thing. But it's just that instead of enjoying the steak you wanted when you ordered it, now you got to enjoy other things which are not necessarily what you wanted in the first place. This is my point.

 

 

Again, I have to say that SLAM article from a few years back really hit this point home, that NBA games feel like you're going to a place that holds a series of happening events and one of the events happens to be an NBA game. It's like the happenings are so much around the game that the game itself is no longer the main show.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

Some people like their steak with thick gravy, some people like their steak bland. I'm just saying when you have no gravy, you can really taste the beef because it's the only thing on the plate. Have you had a course where you're served with steak, potato mash, salads, egg, prawns and scallops and gravy on top of the steak? It's like the steak is no longer the main show.

I don't even know what any of that means, so I'll try to comprehend and relate. I guess I can just sit here and say that I'd rather have a full dinner, than just one item on my plate. I'm not the anorexic fan, I guess.

 

So, if we're talking food...maybe you're the one mixing up everything you order, into one big plate of mush. I'm enjoying the main course, the side orders, and I can bounce between each without confusing them.

[Real Deal]

Just for laughs, do you cook your steak by itself, or do you use pepper, steak sauce, or any type of seasoning? Most do.

 

Fans enjoy the entertainment. And, again, the in-game music helps to get them on their feet and cheering for their team. "Let's go Lakers, let's go! BOOM, BOOM." Heard it plenty of times, and so have the fans.

 

Ever attended a college football game? They have bands. How about college basketball? It's all the same: to get the fans more involved.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^I guess you find NCAA games boring then without the in-game arena music? In NCAA games, you can only hear sound of dribbles, shoes squeaking, commentator, fans with their noises, and that's it. I guess you can't stand NCAA tournament in March the same way you can't stand to sit and watch MLB games or soccer games?

 

Well I cook my steak and give it salt and pepper. lol

 

But just pretend you say "alright I'm gonna grab myself some steak" and so you went out and went to this restaurant and they served you not only steak, but like I mentioned, bunch of other things on the same plate, like mash, greens, poached egg, dressing, prawns, scallops. So you went home and your missy asked, "so what did you have for lunch?"... "yeah, I ate some mash, salad, seafood on the side, oh yeah... a steak." Again, the side things are not necessarily bad... the point is the side things are so much they can be as filling as eating the steak itself.

 

The steak is of course my way of describing "the game" so you don't get confused.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Yes.

Music is not allowed during the game, only pre-game. Interviews not allowed till after the game either.

 

Just curious, why are they not allowed?

 

 

Yes.

Music is not allowed during the game, only pre-game. Interviews not allowed till after the game either.

 

I would love that.

 

Just curious, why would you love that?

[Real Deal]

^I guess you find NCAA games boring then without the in-game arena music? In NCAA games, you can only hear sound of dribbles, shoes squeaking, commentator, fans with their noises, and that's it. I guess you can't stand NCAA tournament in March the same way you can't stand to sit and watch MLB games or soccer games?

I don't find basketball boring to begin with, partially because of the fans. The NCAA has bands to get teams and fans pumped up during timeouts. The NBA teams don't have bands.

 

I just don't get why you're nitpicking about in-game music. There are no negatives that come with it. There are no videos that distract fans from the game, and it's not like the fans are more into the music than they are the game (don't even bother arguing that).

 

The referees are another story, but what can you do about that? Less involvement? So...less calls? If there's a travel, it's a travel and needs to be called. Fouls have to be called. Out-of-bounds? What else can they do LESS of?

 

If your answer is that you want them to not decide the outcome of a game, then you believe the NBA is rigged...and again, that's a different subject.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^It's not negatives, it's that the in-game side things give you a reason to not focus on the game.

 

Sorry if I have to go back to the steak analogy again, but it's the easiest way to hit the point home... like in the example I had above, with so many stuff a person eats alongside the steak, it gives them a reason to put their steak "on the side", when it's supposed to be the main show. When you have a plate of steak, salad, toasted bread, egg, prawn, scallops, dressing, gravy, olives... some people started with the greens, some started with the seafood, some started straight with the steak. When the meal is finished, different people will have different subjects of that same meal. Some will say, "oh the salad was crunchy and beautiful"... some will say, "I love the bread." or "I love the scallops."... some people would even barely mention the steak because they love some other parts of the meal so much.

 

In other words, you go to an NBA game where different people will have different experiences... it's like they're not unified together as "one" and instead of talking about the game, they talked about different other subjects surrounding the game.

 

But if you want a steak, and you're only served with only steak and maybe some gravy on the side... that's all you will have. If you have 100 people eating the same course, all of them will have the same subject of that specific meal, "oh the steak was cooked perfectly," or "I thought the steak was pretty bad"... regardless of what they think of the steak, regardless of the different comments, they all comment on only one subject, that is the steak, which is the game. They talk about one subject.

 

In other words, other sporting events like NCAA basketball games, or soccer, or MLB, the fans are usually more unified because they talk about one subject: the game. Where in NBA games, there's a good chance they will talk about more than one subject.

 

 

If you can't sit through 9 innings of a baseball game, I guess it's safe to say you don't really like the game in the first place.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

That's all on you, then. When someone asks me what I had for dinner, I tell them a steak. I can't be easily distracted when I'm watching the sport I love. No in-game music can take me away from the game...only gets me pumped up, if anything.

[Multi-Billionaire]

I really think NBA should experiment one game for each team to have a game with no in-game music, and if you're watching home from TV, no player interviews or "NBA Cares" after every break. Or minimize them from 20 to 2-3.

 

Games where you can only hear the naturals when you play the sport, when you can hear them yell, you can hear the dribble, the squeaking of their shoes, players fall hard on the floor, refs whistles. It will really be a classic, old school game... where you can finally focus on the main show.

 

 

 

The referees are another story, but what can you do about that? Less involvement? So...less calls? If there's a travel, it's a travel and needs to be called. Fouls have to be called. Out-of-bounds? What else can they do LESS of?

 

If your answer is that you want them to not decide the outcome of a game, then you believe the NBA is rigged...and again, that's a different subject.

 

I missed this part of your post.

 

Well we're all NBA fans, we've all watched ESPN or go online to see NBA articles, be it from ESPN or SportsIllustrated, or Yahoo. How many times have we heard "the refs just have to let them play"? How many times have we heard JVG say it? I'm sure we've heard it aplenty.

 

The slightest touch, the slightest flop, the slightest trash talk, and it's a whistle. Soccer refs, in comparison, know the difference of a flop and a real one. If you fall because someone tackles you hard, then it's going to be a foul. Even sometimes when it's genuine hard tackle, they're letting you play. But if you flop without any touch, then you're going to be yellow-carded.

 

Nitro said NBA refs must make decisions literally like a tenth of a second, likewise the refs in a soccer game. They have to make the decision at the spot. Unlike NBA refs who are allowed to huddle together and overturn a decision, the refs in soccer don't have that luxury and yet they seem to be able to make better decisions, knowing which one is genuine hard fall and which one is flop. Refs in soccer are human just like refs in NBA, I don't see if the soccer refs can do it, why the NBA refs can't, or I don't see why NBA feels like its refs won't be able to distinguish between acting job and the real thing.

 

It doesn't actually have to go all the way to soccer. In international competition, NBA players often [expletive] (all the more glaring exposed in early 2000s when USA failed to finish first place with NBA player-filled squad) because they were not getting "star calls" they got in the NBA. They actually struggled to play without NBA refs calls. Defensively, they flopped and the refs let them play. In NBA, they might get the charging call.

 

This is what I'm saying by "cut the BS" because I'm here to watch real sport, not some acting skills/ superstar staged dramas. If it's a flop, punish it by ignoring it, after a while these guys will stop flopping. Case in point is, I can't believe when scrubs like CJ Miles and Wesley Matthews got calls whenever they flopped when Melo went at them. And then in Round 2 vs LA, the same scrubs tried to flop when Kobe went to work up... flopped the same way, only this time the flop was ignored. Before you think I have a bitter pill they called it against Melo and not against Kobe, you're right, but that is not the point I'm arguing here. The point is flopping has really damaged the NBA overall, not only that Denver-Utah series, but all other series too, not only this year's playoffs, but past years' playoffs as well, basically the whole NBA. Again, I maintain this is not about Denver or LA... it's about the flopping that affects more than just these 2 teams.

[Real Deal]

Yeah, but are you talking about actual flopping, or taking charges? Taking a charge is a defensive tactic, a legit one...nothing wrong with it at all.

[Multi-Billionaire]

I am talking about both. But this rule "as long as you have your feet set, you're not moving when the offensive player collides with you, you're outside the restricted zone, then it's an offensive foul" is still stupid imo. Because the slightest contact and you can jerk yourself off backwards and it's an offensive foul. In soccer, it has to be solid contact believable to cause you to fall then it's a foul. If it's just a "gentle" touch and you fall, it's still flopping and it's a yellow card. Do it twice and you get red-carded and sent off, your team will pay for it because they'd be playing with only 10 guys on the field.

 

That's why soccer players are more careful about flopping and with real consequences, it hugely deters the actors from flopping.

 

Back to Kobe vs. Miles and Matthews again. I think it's a shame the refs would do that... because in the previous series vs. Denver, they absolutely called everything against Melo. I mean EVERYthing, you have to watch it to believe me. Miles flopped and it's an offensive foul on Melo. EVERY time. I believed Melo fouled out twice in that series, in foul trouble in 5 of the 6 games. If you think I think Kobe has a superstar preferential treatment, yes I do think that, but again hammering Kobe is not the point of my argument here. My point is that's how NBA refs should do their job: to ignore flopping just like how they ignored the flopping done numerous times by Matthews, Miles in the Lakers series. If you reward flopping, just like they did in Denver series, the whole squad became floppers. It was actually Miles who started flopping, then when it worked, Matthews began to do the same, and when his worked too, then it's Millsap, all the way to Deron Williams.

 

What happened when Kobe bumped them, Miles fell on his [expletive]? The refs let them play. So they would try again, and again, being ignored every time. My point is: what happens when you ignore flopping? It stops. Just like how it stopped when the whole cursed Jazz team found out their flopping was ignored in the LA series. But what happens when you reward them, like in Denver series? The whole team becomes floppers. Instead of watching basketball, you are watching high-paid athletes trying to win oscar and giggle, "I flop better than you, I'm more convincing." The whole squad tries to better each other in acting. Instead of focusing on the real aspects of the game, like you know lay-ups, passes, boxing out, they try to perfect their flops in training. Is this even basketball anymore? That's my point.

 

As much as I hate Melo at times for his "diva"-ness, and laziness, one thing I give him credit for is he never flops and he never will. Not even when it comes to selling to get to the FT line like Wade, who would take it to the hole and falls on his [expletive] everytime and the refs would think, "geee Wade must be fouled because he's on his [expletive]." This is not a knock on Wade because he's just taking advantage of what's being given/ available to him. The NBA makes this available. Watch Nugget games, and you'll see when Melo goes hard to the rim, fouled hard, if he can still stand, he will stand, he won't purposely fall to try to sell that he was fouled. You may say, "he's not being very smart"... but again, I watch this game to watch players like Melo... you fall when you fall, not because you try to sell a foul call against you.

 

Again, soccer players are not perfect creatures by any means. Some of the cunning ones will still try to flop. But the question here is, are they ready to pay the consequences if they are "caught"? That's why most soccer players will play the game with full respect of the rules, and they will usually opt not to flop than flop upon a contact. And that is real. When you flop, it's an acting, it makes the whole thing fake. I want to watch a real sport, not a "fake" attached to it. Without fake-ness, we will then see who is the real superstars who can play this game, not some bunch of actors who can act. A flopper like Jared Jeffries who can flop gets $8 mil per because he "takes charges 2-3 times for your team in a game and he leads the L in flopping" but he misses wide open lay-ups/ dunks, botches passes, the real aspects of the game. Which is a shame.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

Re-read a bit of what you typed, then I just want you to go back to post #3 and #12 in this topic, and understand exactly why I said what I did.

 

I can't discuss charges. You don't approve of them, and I recognize drawing a charge as a legit defensive move/strategy.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^It's not I disapprove of charges.

 

1.) I think the rule "your feet are set, you're outside the restricted area, you can't move when contact is made, then it's an offensive foul" is giving players reason to flop. I mean, as long as you do all of those three, then it means the slightest contact the offensive players makes with you, and you can jerk yourself backward to make look like it's real contact.

 

It has to be corrected. I think in addition of doing all those three (your feet set, outside restricted area, you can't move when contact is made), there has to be some real solid contact to cause you to fall, then it's an offensive foul.

 

If it's just a gentle touch, and you fall, it's a flop... and it deserves a technical foul/ being ignored. Just like how Matthews and CJ Miles were repeatedly ignored by the refs in LA series.

 

 

2.) Nitro made a point that it's very hard to ref a basketball game. Hard? Really? Cmon... there are three (3!) refs on an NBA court with only 10 players to ref. Compare that to only one (1!) ref on a MASSIVE soccer field with more players (20) to ref. And most of the time, a soccer ref is able to clearly tell which one is flop (which is ignored/ yellow-carded) and which one is real... while three refs on an NBA buy flops like they buy donuts. And not to mention, the three NBA refs are able to huddle and overturn a decision, while a soccer ref (alone) has to make his decision right after a contact is made. And a soccer ref is able to tell which one is a flop and which one isn't while he's covering more ground and reffing more players, while three NBA refs don't seem to be able to do that? Cmon, it's no contest.

 

Watch one of these WC games and you'll know what I'm talking about here. If a ref puts up a yellow card, watch the replay... it has to be a very hard contact made or clearly illegal move that a soccer ref would put up a yelow card. Rarely, if never, you will see a flop and the soccer ref rewards the flopper.

 

When you reward flopping, there's a sense of rewarding a team for its faking/ acting ability... which is totally a non-sport element.

 

 

3.) All the going-ons surrounding an NBA game have to be minimized. There's so much going on in an NBA game, watching from TV itself is crazy already, what if I go there in person? It should be like going to a concert or something... so much musics, so much lights. Is this even a sports event? I understand we're in the era of technology, but technology is supposed to "support" the game, instead of being almost as big a portion as the game itself.

 

There's so many things going on as if the NBA is scared you're bored otherwise and going to leave at halftime or something. If you really come to watch the game, you're going to watch the game. If you're going to leave, you're going to leave... not because you are not entertained with some music/ lights.

 

The NBA should feel more secure about its athletes. It has the best pro-basketball players in the world with the best bball talents, bball athleticism, bball coaching, bball conditioning and facilities. They're top notch, so why do they have to go away from that?

 

I don't mean to completely mute the arena, but the blitzes have to be minimized. Make it more about the game.

 

And you will see the adult fans start coming back. If you see a trend, most people love NBA when they're kids - teenager, as they grow they start saying, "I don't watch NBA anymore" ... most of them turn into soccer fans.

 

The mature age group don't need to be "entertained" when they go to a sporting event. They know what they come to an arena for... to watch a sports game. Hey, it's great to have some music blaring here and there... but not all game! How awful it is to come home and your ears are still humming and it's like you didn't even hear a single dribble sound at all in that game... the experience is almost nothing like a basketball game. The game has been over-pimp-ed... the original is barely there anymore.

 

As a person matures, they're more aware of what they want. I think teenagers growing to young adults ditching NBA is a strong indication that it is not original basketball anymore. It's more marketing, it's more stars, it's more ref domination, it's more merchandises and tickets, it's more David Stern's plan of NBA expansion to Europe or Asia.

 

 

Then you watch international basketball, and it feels very bland... which is the way things should be. Because the NBA has been over-seasoned. But trust me, real NBA superstars don't need the lights and musics to make them be more superstars. Real NBA fans don't need the lights and musics to make them enjoy the game more. If they really love the game, they can stand the music-less timeouts, halftimes, for 48 minutes and through overtimes. Again, I'm not saying it should be dead quiet cemetery but they should cut down/ minimize the non-sense and just focus on the game.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Hey you, yea you above me. Stop hating on the NBA.

[HipHopHead]

The music makes the game more funner.

usually i don't care about grammar but there is so much wrong with this sentence.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Hey you, yea you above me. Stop hating on the NBA.

 

I'm not hating it.

 

On the other hand, I want it to be as successful as soccer, at least if you wanna measure by the number of the sports' fans. I do think those are the reasons why NBA isn't as successful as soccer.

 

Think of soccer as english language, which is pretty much the language of the world. Then think of NBA as French/ chinese.

[YugoRocketsFan]

I'm not hating it.

 

On the other hand, I want it to be as successful as soccer, at least if you wanna measure by the number of the sports' fans. I do think those are the reasons why NBA isn't as successful as soccer.

 

Think of soccer as english language, which is pretty much the language of the world. Then think of NBA as French/ chinese.

 

Chinese is the most spoken language of the world, lol.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^You smart man. My parents always say that to me.

 

Statistically, chinese is the most spoken language in the world... but not all people accept that, especially in the Western world.

 

Then I'll just say (to avoid headache), soccer is English language and NBA is French language.

[Real Deal]

I just think you're making too big of a deal about it. You're paying way too much attention to everything else. When I watched the Lakers last night, I wasn't even paying attention to anything but what was happening on the court.

 

When you go to a game and you hear that music, it gets you up out of your chair and cheering. You aren't trying to figure out what song it is, you're cheering for your team.

 

I can tell you, right now, that you aren't as big of a basketball fan as me. Definitely not a shot at you, but come on...if you're really complaining about this, you're thinking way too much about it. The only distraction I have during a game? The commercials. When I actually went to see a game, nothing at all. Incredible environment in Oakland, some of the loudest fans I've ever been around when they were playing the Lakers, and a LOT of that had to do with the in-game music they would play when their team was bringing the ball up the court. Fans were pumped, and even when they were losing (and they had kept it close all game), everyone was chanting in sync with what was playing.

 

As far as multiple referees go, you can call a lot more in basketball. I barely watch soccer, but I know there's a handball penalty, and one for going offsides...two major penalties...and then your typical, intentional push, trip or hold...all easy to see. In basketball, you have goaltending, illegal screens, defensive three, offensive three, reaching, holding, charges, blocking fouls, many more out-of-bounds calls, and other things you actually need more than one referee for.

[Sky]

Soccer has music in-game all the time, it's just supplied by the fans singing or the intensely annoying vuvuzuela beehive that makes listening to the World Cup intolerable.

 

I sat next to the Brazil section at US-Brazil in Palo Alto for the World Cup and they were singing, dancing, playing percussion all game. For some of them it was more about the party in the stands than the game on the field. And that's my criticism of your point, not all soccer fans are all about the game only. Some are there for the atmosphere and live in that vibe. The only difference NBA v soccer is the fans supply the music in soccer. Why is that an important difference if your goal is focus on the game only?

 

Referees. Soccer has less volume of calls, less judgment calls. Judgment is involved in making the call of course, but it's perfunctory. Offsides is pretty basic compared to charge/blocking. Also have a larger field and more space to see a play develop. You can't compare the two. Though I would love to see yellow cards and red cards in the NBA, it would be a hoot. Red card Sheed and watch him go nuts. We'd see cards torn, refs decked, fun stuff.

 

Flopping. It's worse in soccer. Hard tackle and the guy writhes on the field like someone needs to get an ambulance out there right now. Player sees the ref isn't buying it and miraculously Ambulance Man is back up and ready to play. The NBA has Paul Pierce pulling that. Soccer has a busload of bad actors.

 

As a Warriors season ticket holder I can tell you that the entertainment can work, but more during time outs than in-game, the Flying Dubs (dunks off trampoline) always fire the crowd up. Usually at Oracle the fans start a chant and then the music kicks in to support it, not the reverse.

 

I get your point that the NBA in-game can tend to manufacture atmosphere and in soccer it's more organic since the fans are passionate, unified and drunk. But a single focus just on the game isn't true for either sport.