Game 7: Biggest game in Kobe's career?

[The Regime]

Is it?

Edited June 16, 2010 by Confidence

[kingfish]

Sure, why not.

[The Artesticle]

no question about it. yes

[Built Ford Tough]

In terms of cementing his legacy among the All-Time greats, I think you would have to consider it the biggest game of his career up to this point.

 

Now matter how great of a player Kobe is, how skilled he is, how great his statistics are or how many awards he has won, losing Game 7 and having a career record in the Finals of 4-3 is going to be a blemish on what would otherwise be considered a near flawless resume.

 

You can disagree with me all you want, but in my mind, it would be hard to label Kobe as the greatest player to ever play the game if he finishes his career with a barely above .500 record in the Finals considering Jordan's perfect 6-0 record. Argue about Jordan being on better teams all you want, but Kobe has been the team favoured to win it all during every single trip to the Finals except for maybe 2008 (although a lot of people predicted the Lakers to win, I wasn't one of them however).

 

Kobe is going to go down in history as arguably the most skilled player to ever play the game but if he wants to be recognized as the greatest player to ever play the game, Thursday's game is of the utmost importance as far as I am concerned.

 

Of course Kobe can lose tomorrow but go one to win the next 3 in a row and things could completely change, but as of right now, yes, I would have to say that this is the biggest game of Kobe's career.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[magicbalala245]

Definitely biggest game for Kobe.

[Sun Tzu]

Yes I believe it will be his biggest game.

[ChosenOne]

no question about it. yes

 

 

Definitely biggest game for Kobe.

 

 

Yes I believe it will be his biggest game.

 

That, that, and that.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Yes, this prooves if Kobe can lead his team well without Shaq. Still, hopefully the Lakers lose. Lol

[Warren2ThaG]

Certainly is, same for Phil, i think.

[reno]

Could be sterns biggest game.

[Erick Blasco]

If you're arguing that Kobe is better than Jordan (an argument I don't think possible to win), then sure why not. But Kobe's already secured his legacy with last year's title and has had a stellar Finals. So long as he doesn't implode with some kind of 3-19 performance, his legacy is secure.

 

Besides, Kobe isn't winning Game 7, the Lakers will win Game 7 based on their supporting cast. Keep in mind, the Lakers won the only bad game Kobe's had this Finals anyway.

[Sħãlïq™]

No doubt! Mos Def! GO LAKE-SHOW!!!! man, I wish I could see that game...

[Nitro]

Even though he was 6-24, Kobe showed his greatness in Game 7. 15 rebounds, terrific defense, great energy, and in the 4th he did his job and helped close it out.

 

Amazing series by him, truly vindicated himself from the 2008 series. Even though his shooting percentages were low and his TO's high, he still played terrific all-around ball and got his 29PPG without getting more than 3-4 easy looks at the rim the entire series. I've never seen anyone over the course of a series hit as many extremely tough shots as he did on such a consistent basis. Only Kobe could do what Kobe did this series.

[Poe]

Win or no win tonight, Kobe is the best basketball player to ever play the game. You can't argue how well a player's team performs when arguing for the skill of an individual player. Sure a player can affect his teammates, but he cannot control the whole team, only himself.

[Nitro]

Win or no win tonight, Kobe is the best basketball player to ever play the game. You can't argue how well a player's team performs when arguing for the skill of an individual player. Sure a player can affect his teammates, but he cannot control the whole team, only himself.

 

I'll happily argue that Kobe is NOT better than Jordan, and virtually every stat and accolade will defend that. Kobe's definately the most skilled player ever, but skill doesn't necessarily equal greatness or pure effectiveness. But make that topic, and I'll lay out my arguement.

 

That is NOT to discredit Kobe AT ALL. He's arguably top 5 all-time already and he's still in his prime years coming off back-to-back championships. Comparing anyone of any sport to MJ is an accomplishment in itself, and IMO MJ is the greatest athlete that's ever lived. It's almost an impossible and unfair feat to say anyone is better than he was.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Nitro1118

[The Artesticle]

Kobe choked.

 

We won regardless. Thank you Pau Gasol and Ron Artest.

[EastCoastNiner]

I'll happily argue that Kobe is NOT better than Jordan, and virtually every stat and accolade will defend that. Kobe's definately the most skilled player ever, but skill doesn't necessarily equal greatness or pure effectiveness. But make that topic, and I'll lay out my arguement.

 

That is NOT to discredit Kobe AT ALL. He's arguably top 5 all-time already and he's still in his prime years coming off back-to-back championships. Comparing anyone of any sport to MJ is an accomplishment in itself, and IMO MJ is the greatest athlete that's ever lived. It's almost an impossible and unfair feat to say anyone is better than he was.

 

It's so funny when people say Jordan is better, but that argument can be ripped apart in seconds.

 

Just look at how the Bulls did when M.J. left the first time. They did just as well.

 

Horace Grant was the key to that team because without him, or another great forward, M.J. couldn't do [expletive].

[Built Ford Tough]

It's so funny when people say Jordan is better, but that argument can be ripped apart in seconds.

 

Sort of like this one?

 

Just look at how the Bulls did when M.J. left the first time. They did just as well.

 

Knocked out in the 2nd round is just as good as winning an NBA Championship? Really?

 

Winning 47 games in 94-95 where Jordan played 17 games and then winning 72 games in Jordan's first full season back are the same? Or was it the addition of Rodman that was the only reason why the Bulls had a 25 game improvement?

 

Horace Grant was the key to that team because without him, or another great forward, M.J. couldn't do [expletive].

 

And what has Kobe done without a great forward/center in his career? Missed the playoffs once and had two first round exits.

 

The Lakers get Gasol and what happens? Three Finals trips and two NBA Championships.

 

 

Whatever though, Kobe and Jordan arguments are worse than Kobe and LeBron arguments. You can argue that Kobe is more skilled but Kobe is not the greater player than Jordan, at least not yet. That is all I am going to say because arguments like these are completely pointless.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Nitro]

It's so funny when people say Jordan is better, but that argument can be ripped apart in seconds.

 

Just look at how the Bulls did when M.J. left the first time. They did just as well.

 

Horace Grant was the key to that team because without him, or another great forward, M.J. couldn't do [expletive].

 

Really? It can be ripped apart in seconds? Make the topic, and I'll rip apart whatever arguement you make.

 

And MJ couldn't do [expletive] without Horace Grant? What about Kobe never doing crap without Shaq (top 10 all-time) or Pau Gasol (arguably the best big in the game, something Grant never was remotely considered)? It's a stupid arguement because NO player has EVER done it alone, or without a somewhat balanced supporting cast.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Nitro1118

[Poe]

I'll happily argue that Kobe is NOT better than Jordan, and virtually every stat and accolade will defend that. Kobe's definately the most skilled player ever, but skill doesn't necessarily equal greatness or pure effectiveness. But make that topic, and I'll lay out my arguement.

 

That is NOT to discredit Kobe AT ALL. He's arguably top 5 all-time already and he's still in his prime years coming off back-to-back championships. Comparing anyone of any sport to MJ is an accomplishment in itself, and IMO MJ is the greatest athlete that's ever lived. It's almost an impossible and unfair feat to say anyone is better than he was.

 

Defenses weren't a fraction as sophisticated as they are today, plus add all the rules that restricted what defenses were allowed to do, which gives 1 on 1 offensive players such as MJ even more of an advantage. So sure, talk to me about his career PPG and TS%, cause I could give the same argument about Wilt Chamberlain. Even talk about Jordan's team being 6-0 in the finals, when the fact of the matter is that Jordan had better teams comparatively those years, since it was the CHICAGO BULLS who won, not just Jordan. If rings truly determine a player's so called "greatness", then Robert Horry is one of the greatest players of all time.

 

Kobe Bryant is the most skilled, best all around, most competitive, and most difficult player to guard of all time. Throw any defense you want on him, he is still the most dangerous player on the floor. More dangerous than MJ due to his superior skill, scoring range, and arsenal of moves.

 

 

And of course, this is not to take away from MJ's game. He is a top 5 player in NBA history along with LeBron James, Magic Johnson, and Hakeem Olajuwan.

[EastCoastNiner]

Sort of like this one?

 

 

 

Knocked out in the 2nd round is just as good as winning an NBA Championship? Really?

 

Winning 47 games in 94-95 where Jordan played 17 games and then winning 72 games in Jordan's first full season back are the same? Or was it the addition of Rodman that was the only reason why the Bulls had a 25 game improvement?

 

 

 

And what has Kobe done without a great forward/center in his career? Missed the playoffs once and had two first round exits.

 

The Lakers get Gasol and what happens? Three Finals trips and two NBA Championships.

 

 

Whatever though, Kobe and Jordan arguments are worse than Kobe and LeBron arguments. You can argue that Kobe is more skilled but Kobe is not the greater player than Jordan, at least not yet. That is all I am going to say because arguments like these are completely pointless.

 

 

First, I wasn't going to list every reason, and secondly, you are wrong.

 

 

I'm not saying he didn't make them better, but do you know how many more games the Bulls lost in 1994? Maybe ten? Maybe 15?

 

No, the lost two more games without Michael Jordan. Shouldn't his loss have had a bigger impact? No, because he's over-rated.

 

Also, there were some poor calls in the series against the Knicks, where Pippen got screwed. If they won that round, they would have coasted past the Pacers, and probably lost to the Rockets in the Finals.

 

 

Also, the Bulls lost 4 games to 2 the next season in the playoffs, doing worse than with they did without M.J. the season before. Big impact, huh?

 

 

Also, why are you even mentioning the 72 games? If he was that great, why did they only do that once? It's because they got Dennis Rodman that season, filling their interior defense weakness when they didn't have Horace Grant.

 

He started his career with three losing seasons before Pippen and Rodman joined the team, and they won multiple Championships? When M.J. went, they barely suffered, and when he came back, they did worse.

 

Did LeBron have three losing seasons? How many "great" players had three straight losing seasons before getting the best help someone could have?

 

I'm not even going to start about the weak level of his competition.

 

I could go on and on ripping your posts apart, but I don't feel like it right now.

Edited June 18, 2010 by EastCoastNiner

[Nitro]

Defenses weren't a fraction as sophisticated as they are today, plus add all the rules that restricted what defenses were allowed to do, which gives 1 on 1 offensive players such as MJ even more of an advantage. So sure, talk to me about his career PPG and TS%, cause I could give the same argument about Wilt Chamberlain.

 

Please. Yes, zone defenses were illegal back in MJ's prime. However, hanchecks weren't, and defenses were far more physical. Jordan drove the lane far more than Kobe until the very end of his career, yet averaged only 7-8 FT's per game throughout the '90's. To compare, Dirk Nowitzki gets to the line that much.

 

And scoring is only a fraction of my arguement for Jordan being better than Kobe. The assists, rebounding, TO's and defense are all on MJ's side as well.

 

Also, when MJ came back at 40 years old after zone defense was legalized, he averaged 23PPG on 45% shooting. Oldest player to have a 50pt game. That was with Jordan not being able to finish a dunk at the All-Star game and having 0 help. What would he do if he was 25? Same thing he did when he was 25...35/5.9/5.5 on 54% shooting, Defensive Player of the Year.

 

Kobe Bryant is the most skilled, best all around, most competitive, and most difficult player to guard of all time. Throw any defense you want on him, he is still the most dangerous player on the floor. More dangerous than MJ due to his superior skill, scoring range, and arsenal of moves.

 

Completely agreed. Doesn't make him more effective, though.

[Nitro]

Did LeBron have three losing seasons? How many "great" players had three straight losing seasons before getting the best help someone could have?

 

Different league, different era. In Jordan's rookie season only 10 teams had .500 records or better. This season, 16 teams had .500 records or better. The Bulls still made the playoffs in both of Jordan's first few seasons, something Bron didn't experience 'till his third.

[Poe]

And scoring is only a fraction of my arguement for Jordan being better than Kobe. The assists, rebounding, TO's and defense are all on MJ's side as well.

 

As it does for LeBron. Actually LeBron has better numbers in those areas than Jordan (to the exception of TOs), so I guess King James it the best player to ever play. He would have won DPOY as well if it wasn't for Dwight Howard.

 

Also, when MJ came back at 40 years old after zone defense was legalized, he averaged 23PPG on 45% shooting.

 

No, it was 23 PPG on 41.6% shooting. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

[Nitro]

As it does for LeBron. Actually LeBron has better numbers in those areas than Jordan (to the exception of TOs), so I guess King James it the best player to ever play. He would have won DPOY as well if it wasn't for Dwight Howard.

 

The difference is LeBron is not a better scorer than Kobe like Jordan was, LeBron is nowhere NEAR the clutch player Jordan or Kobe were/are, and LeBron is NOT a better defender than Kobe like Jordan was. Jordan is considered by many as the greatest perimeter defender in NBA HISTORY, and really the only player that has been the very best in the league on both ends at the same time. To compare LeBron's defense to Jordan's is a mockery.

 

Kobe and Jordan have such similar personalities and "greatness" characteristics that the arguement of Kobe vs. Jordan comes down to x's and o's. LeBron just doesn't have that, so there's a lot more complexities in comparing LeBron to them. And keep in mind, before LeBron did what he did in that Celtics series, I had him as the best player in the league. Now, it's really hard to defend him on that front.

 

No, it was 23 PPG on 41.6% shooting. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

 

My bad, it was the next season he shot 45.6% shooting to go with 20PPG. I'd argue injuries and the rust of not playing in 3-4 years for his low shooting % that first season, but it is what it is. Nontheless, at 40 years old MJ was still a 20/6/4 on 45% shooting player in a league where zone defense was legal. To say Jordan's stats are so inflated because of zone defense is ridiculous.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Nitro1118