Michael Jordan vs. Kobe Bryant

[Nitro]

Since it was inevitable with Kobe winning his 5th ring, there's plenty of people once again comparing MJ to Kobe. So, to keep all the discussion in one topic, here it is. Here's my arguement...

 

Accomplishments/Accolades:

 

This area doesn't mean a whole lot to me as they are both 2 of the most accomplished players in the league. But, here's how it breaks down...

 

Championships: Jordan-6, Kobe-5

MVP's: Jordan-5, Kobe-1

Finals MVP's: Jordan-6, Kobe-2

Defensive Player of the Year: Jordan-1, Kobe-0

Scoring Titles: Jordan-10, Kobe-2

All-NBA First Team: Jordan-10, Kobe-8

All-NBA First Team Defense: Jordan-9, Kobe-8

All-Star Game MVP's: Jordan-3, Kobe-3

 

It's unfair to put a ton of weight in this area, but regardless if Kobe wins more rings than MJ, I think it's safe to say that Jordan's individual accolades will never really be matched by anyone in the modern era.

 

 

The Real Debate- X's and O's:

 

This is where the real debate is. Seeing as how they are both so accomplished and have such similar personalities and characteristics that exemplify greatness, it all comes down to the X's and O's. Before I begin...I am comparing them based on the players they were in their absolute primes. I consider Jordan's prime to be '88-'93, and Kobe's to be '05-'10. With that said, here's how I break it down.

 

Scoring: Obviously the strongest area of both player's games. The two greatest scorers in NBA history. I'll start off by saying Kobe is WITHOUT A DOUBT the most skilled scorer the league has ever seen. No one has ever had the truly complete package he has. Where Kobe truly elipses Jordan as a scorer is shooting...he's a much better 3pt shooter, slightly better shooter in the midrange game, a slightly better FT shooter and a slightly better left hand. Both players are about equal in terms of footwork, use of pump fakes, etc... Kobe has a few moves he uses on very rare occasions that Jordan didn't have, but they are also very low % shots. Nontheless, nice to have in the repetoire.

 

Where Jordan has the big edge on Kobe is efficiency. As a general example aside from using season FG %, in 1991-1992, Jordan played 80 games and only had EIGHT games of shooting below 40%. In 2006-2007, the most comparable season Kobe had to Jordan's 91-92 campaign, he played 77 games and had TWENTY games of shooting below 40%. I know people will say that number is such because Kobe doesn't drive to the rim as much as MJ did, but let's take Dwyne Wade...in 2008-2009, where he averaged 30PPG on a terrific 49% shooting, he had 8 games of shooting below 40% 1.5 months into the season. There is something to be said for Jordan's amazing efficiency and consistency, and it goes beyond just him attacking the rim.

 

Anyway, the reason Jordan was so efficient is a two-fold.

 

A) Not only did he drive more than Kobe, but he was much quicker, stronger, had bigger hands (Phil Jackson mentions this a lot) and a higher vertical leap, allowing him to finish much better than Kobe at the rim. Jordan was an absolute freak athlete that really only LeBron James has come close to from a physical standpoint.

B) Shot selection. Jordan was in no way, shape or form a better shooter than Kobe, but he also didn't take 5+ 3pt shots per game as Kobe does. Jordan kept his 3pt jacks to a minimum, taking 1-3 of them per game in that 5-year span. However, he wasn't a bad 3pt shooter, and in the two seasons in his prime that he took over 2 3PA, he shot 37% and 35%, respectively. Kobe has never shot 37% from 3, and taking 5+ a game really lowers his overall FG %.

 

On top of the efficiency and fact that Jordan was a much better slasher, he also had a TERRIFIC midrange game, which is what seperates him from players like LeBron and Wade. He had incredible footwork, midrange jumper, fadeaway jumper, ability in the post, pump-fakes, ball-fakes...he was the complete package from inside the arc. Kobe arguably has more moves and a better jumper, but Jordan's driving ability made it harder for players to get in his jersey, allowing for some easier looks.

 

My winner- Jordan. The advantage Jordan had in effiency and consistency simply outweighs Kobe's advantage in skill, at least IMO.

 

 

Defense:

 

Personally if there is an area that I don't think is much of a conversation, it's defense. Jordan and Kobe can both be considered lockdown defenders, but Jordan was the better of the two. He was more consistently great on defense, had greater lateral quickness, greater strength, and much quicker hands and ability to create TO's. Twice in the 5-year span I am comparing them in Jordan led the league in steals twice at nearly 3 a game, and he was the 1988 DPOY. Jordan is considered by many as the greatest perimeter defender in NBA history. Kobe is a great defensive player, but he just isn't Jordan.

 

My winner- Jordan.

 

 

Playmaking/Passing/Ballhandling:

 

Another area that comes down to skill vs. effectiveness. Kobe is the more skilled ballhandler and about equally skilled of a passer. He can make virtually any pass on the court, and can certainly orchestrate an offense pretty well. However, Kobe is very TO prone, and being more of a shooter than Jordan it's more difficult to set his teammates up for open shots without collapsing the defense like Jordan did so well. Because of this, Jordan averaged 6APG+ 3x in that 5-year span, including an 8APG season. In that span, he averaged over 3TO's per game twice. Meanwhile, in the last 5 years Kobe hasn't had one season of over 5.5APG, and has eclipsed the 3TO mark 4 of the 5 seasons.

 

My winner- Jordan. Jordan was CLEARLY the more productive player in this area, and give me that production over raw skill.

 

 

Rebounding:

 

Jordan never averaged below 6RPG in that 5-year span...Kobe has averaged over 6RPG only once the last 5 seasons. For you advanced stat nuts, if you want to go by TRB%, Kobe never was above a 9.0 while Jordan was never below a 9.5. Aside from pure stats, Jordan was stronger, quicker, had better hands and a higher vertical leap...not surprising he was a better rebounder.

 

My Winner- Jordan.

 

 

Clutch Play:

 

This is where things get interesting. If I was to pick one to take the last shot of a ball-game, I'd take Kobe. Having more moves in his arsenal and being a better shooter from all ranges, there is no shot he can't hit. If you force him into a jumper or put him to the FT line, I trust him more than Jordan to hit the shot.

 

With that said, clutch play has more to do with just hitting the final shot. I consider playing big in the entire post-season as being clutch. Here are there stats in the post-season:

 

Jordan '88-'93: 34.2PPG, 6.8APG, 6.7RPG, 50.0% FG, 83.0% FT, 36.0% 3PT, 2.3SPG, 3.2 TO

Kobe '05-'10: 29.9PPG, 5.5APG, 5.6RPG, 47.0% FG, 85.0% FT, 36.0% 3PT, 1.4SPG, 3.3 TO

 

As you can see, Jordan was an absolute monster in the post-season. Not saying Kobe isn't because he is, but Jordan was a better post-season performer in his prime than Kobe is.

 

Winner- Draw. Both have their perks and disadvantages. Two best clutch players in NBA history.

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, I think my breakdown of the two's games shows who I think is truly the better player, at least when each was at their absolute best with similar supporting casts, same coach, etc... Jordan is the GOAT IMO, and as amazing as Kobe has been in his prime years, Jordan was simply better.

 

Debate on...

[Real Deal]

I agree with most of it, but I can't say Jordan is the better scorer. Obviously, he's more efficient, but I feel like scoring did come easier with Michael. The zone isn't as big of a deal as the shooters MJ had on his team. Opponents feared Paxson, Kukoc, Harper, Kerr, Armstrong, Hodges, and the list goes on...just way too much going on, and it's a good reason why LeBron racks up his assist numbers while putting up 30 a game.

 

But even then, players had to commit to the double-teams, or they just wouldn't do them. Post-Shaq and pre-Gasol, teams would flood Kobe before he even got 23 feet from the rim. Other than Shaq, I don't think I've ever seen a player face more double teams.

 

I would give say it's a draw for post game, because both are the two best post guards in the history of the league (and it's not even CLOSE). Kobe gets the nod for long-range and mid-range shots (Kobe with the best mid-range game in NBA history). Bryant also gets MJ in footwork and pump fakes, and overall offensive maneuvers and ways of scoring. Jordan takes him slashing to the rim, and finishing at the rim.

 

Given that Bryant has put up an 81-point game and averaged 35 PPG in the triangle offense...man, that's way too impressive. Jackson and Fisher both stated that they think Bryant could've easily averaged 40 a game out of the triangle.

 

So I just have to give scoring to Bryant, best scorer in league history.

 

For me, basically, Kobe takes the cake offensively, mainly because of his skillset...and Jordan takes him defensively, mainly because Bryant preserved energy by playing less on-ball defense, and more help (and defense is easier with Pippen). Plus, yes, Jordan was the better defender to begin with. People have no idea how good he really was on defense.

 

Considering everything, if Kobe isn't the better overall player, it's a tie...but that's just my opinion. I considered Jordan the greatest ever one year ago, changed my mind after Kobe adjusted his game this season, especially with the three mangled fingers on the shooting hand (two dislocations, one tear). Most impressive thing I've seen since Jordan started shooting with a permanently-dislocated index finger, ironically.

[Nitro]

I liked most of your post, all personal opinion that I won't debate. Just one thing...

 

Given that Bryant has put up an 81-point game and averaged 35 PPG in the triangle offense...man, that's way too impressive.

 

Jordan averaged 33.6PPG on 3 less FGA in his first year in the triangle than Kobe did to get his 35PPG. Kobe also took 2 more FTA's per game, which is not only an ode to how difficult it was to get foul calls back in the late '80's/early '90's, but I consider it an extra shot attempt. So, it basically took Kobe 4 more shots to get 1.5PPG more.

 

As for Kobe's 81pt game, it's the greatest scoring achievment in NBA history. WITH THAT SAID...when Jordan scored his 69pts, he did it on 7 less FGA, and he also threw in 18 rebounds, 6 assists and 4 steals. Just saying...

[Real Deal]

I liked most of your post, all personal opinion that I won't debate. Just one thing...

 

Jordan averaged 33.6PPG on 3 less FGA in his first year in the triangle than Kobe did to get his 35PPG. Kobe also took 2 more FTA's per game, which is not only an ode to how difficult it was to get foul calls back in the late '80's/early '90's, but I consider it an extra shot attempt. So, it basically took Kobe 4 more shots to get 1.5PPG more.

 

As for Kobe's 81pt game, it's the greatest scoring achievment in NBA history. WITH THAT SAID...when Jordan scored his 69pts, he did it on 7 less FGA, and he also threw in 18 rebounds, 6 assists and 4 steals. Just saying...

That first year in the triangle, Jordan also had better teammates, and teams couldn't double him as much (and couldn't anyway without committing to it, but we already talked about that). The year Kobe averaged 35 was the same year I thought he was doubled and tripled more than any player, ever, besides Shaq.

 

As far as the 81 goes...well, Kobe has put up 62, 56 and 55 in three quarters of play (literally rested the entire fourth). Jordan's 69 and 64-point games both ended in overtimes.

 

Definitely can't knock Jordan's 69-point game, though. I won't bother doing that.

[Nitro]

That first year in the triangle, Jordan also had better teammates, and teams couldn't double him as much (and couldn't anyway without committing to it, but we already talked about that). The year Kobe averaged 35 was the same year I thought he was doubled and tripled more than any player, ever, besides Shaq.

 

I know what you mean, but Jordan didn't exactly have an offensive cast that could light you up. Keep in mind, the 3pt line was still new, and besides Jordan only one other player (Paxson) averaged more than 1.1 3PA. Scottie was stil young, and after that it was Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright. Still undoubtedly better than what Kobe had in 05-06 (the year Kobe was robbed of MVP), but nontheless it wasn't anywhere near the talent people associate with the 6x champion Bulls.

 

As far as the 81 goes...well, Kobe has put up 62, 56 and 55 in three quarters of play (literally rested the entire fourth). Jordan's 69 and 64-point games both ended in overtimes.

 

Yeah, between these two we could go on and on with the big games. I will say though that while both have had 4 60pt+ games, Jordan had 39 50pt+ games to Kobe's 25. Kind of a microcosm of debating who is the better scorer (Kobe more skilled/streaky, Jordan more consistent).

[Jammin]

I'm tired of seeing this stuff everywhere. On TV, on the internet, in magazines. KOBE BRYANT IS KOBE BRYANT. He is not trying to be Michael Jordan. he's trying to create his own legacy. I'm sure in his own head he doesn't even think about who he can be compared to after winning his 5th, and maybe winning 6, 7 or 8. He knows, and people that know Kobe all know he isn't trying to beat anyone, he's trying to be the best player he can be.

 

Now stop comparing.

[ExplosiveScoring]

I'm tired of seeing this stuff everywhere. On TV, on the internet, in magazines. KOBE BRYANT IS KOBE BRYANT. He is not trying to be Michael Jordan. he's trying to create his own legacy. I'm sure in his own head he doesn't even think about who he can be compared to after winning his 5th, and maybe winning 6, 7 or 8. He knows, and people that know Kobe all know he isn't trying to beat anyone, he's trying to be the best player he can be.

 

Now stop comparing.

lol

 

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

[Jammin]

When has he ever had any hint of being like him? Sure he has some of the same move, but what player doesn't copy other players? Dwight learns from Ewing, Bynum learns from Jabbar etc.

[kingfish]

Kobe > Michael

[ExplosiveScoring]

When has he ever had any hint of being like him? Sure he has some of the same move, but what player doesn't copy other players? Dwight learns from Ewing, Bynum learns from Jabbar etc.

Well let's see....Kobe tries to copy.....the way he talks, the way he chews his gum, the way he celebrates, what else? the way he walks? the way he laughs?

[Hawks Fly High]

Well let's see....Kobe tries to copy.....the way he talks, the way he chews his gum, the way he celebrates, what else? the way he walks? the way he laughs?

 

bro your whack. How can you accuse him of this maybe michael was his idol growing up and their playing styles are similar but hes his own person.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Im watching ESPN and some people are making me "lol". Kobe shot 6-24, would Jordan have done that in a final game?

Edited June 19, 2010 by YugoRocketsFan

[JWaLL]

But how?? According to a VERY intelligent source on this very website earlier today, Kobe actually STOLE Jordan's voice!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Check my Stats]

Kobe has taken bits from everyone's game, he has said this openly, just so happens he took a lot out of the best player ever's game, don't see the problem.

[ExplosiveScoring]

Im watching ESPN and some people are making me "lol". Kobe shot 6-24, would Jordan have done that in a final game?

Jordan had a game incredibly similar to what Kobe had last night. 98 vs the Pacers Game 7. Check it out my man.

[The Regime]

LOL what is this, I'm tired of Kobe copying EVERYTHING Jordan does V2, this is going to get locked up real soon.

 

I can't believe some of you haters, even after he wins a championship you guys can't help but criticize the man.

[YugoRocketsFan]

LOL what is this, I'm tired of Kobe copying EVERYTHING Jordan does V2, this is going to get locked up real soon.

 

I can't believe some of you haters, even after he wins a championship you guys can't help but criticize the man.

 

Well it gets annoying hearing him constantly compared to michael jordan.

[fish7718]

LOL what is this, I'm tired of Kobe copying EVERYTHING Jordan does V2, this is going to get locked up real soon.

 

I can't believe some of you haters, even after he wins a championship you guys can't help but criticize the man.

How is it hating on him by saying he's not Michael Jordan? lol @ you thinking Michael Jordan > Kobe is hateful comment. BTW the point of the thread was to stop the Kobe MJ comparisons, so don't see where your goin with this brah.

[Poe]

Accomplishments: No weight should be put here whatsoever in my opinion. MVPs, DPOYs, ROYs, and All NBA Teams are biased by the voters, and every year you can argue how a different player should have won. None of these awards define the true measure of how good a player is. For example, Nash has 2 MVPs. Kobe has 1. Who is the better player throughout their careers?

 

Also, championships are team accomplishments. Leadership is only one part of winning. You can only put so much measurement into a player's ability by the level of his team.

 

Xs and Os

 

I agree with the first paragraph.

 

The second paragraph has a lot of things wrong with it. First of all, you can't measure efficiency by FG% as much as you can by True Shooting percentage. TS%, as you probably know, accounts for all three types of field goals (2 pointers, 3 pointers, and free throws), and combines the percentages into one true percentage. I'll give an example as to why TS% is better than FG%. Say player A takes only 3s and player B takes only 2s. If player A shoots 33%, it would be the same efficiency as player B if he shot 50%, since they are both averaging a point per shot. Someone that takes more threes than another player will almost always have a lower FG%, even if they both score just as efficiently.

 

Shooting 50% from the floor for a guard like Wade is impressive, but you have understand the type of player he is, since Wade doesn't shoot as many threes as say, Kobe Bryant. That year Wade had a TS% of 57%, and Kobe had a TS% of 56%. So when you compare the all around shooting, even though Wade has the advantage in FG by shooting 49% that year and Kobe shot 46%, the True Shooting is nearly equal. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that TS% doesn't always prove the efficiency in one's ability to score, since it does not account for the difficulty in the player's shot. I don't think you can truly put a stat on that, so TS% is the best we got.

 

 

So what's the point of that argument I just made? Kobe Bryant's career TS% is 56%. Michael Jordan's is 57%. Their shooting is not as big of a difference as you think, and I've already made my point in the other topic that scoring is more difficult now due to more defensive freedom, huge advancements in game preparation, and improved perimeter and interior defense from both a player and coaching standpoint. Kobe still shoots about the same as Jordan.

 

 

Defense: Yes, Jordan is a better defender, though Kobe is an excellent defender himself.

 

Passing and Rebounding: I'm not going to argue this one too much.

 

First of all, the assist is a very weird statistic in my opinion (not that it shouldn't be there, but not every good pass that ultimately leads to a score is accounted for an assist, nor are passes to missed attempts, and passes to fouled players aren't rewarded in the stat sheet either, and neither are screens that "assist" a player's score), and it is probably the most affected by role out of all the stats, as well as the talent level of the player's teammates to make their open looks. And once again, defenses were played differently back then.

 

As far as rebounding goes, it can be largely based on teammates. With a better rebounding team, an individual player is less likely to get rebounds. This can also depend slightly on role as well, and a coaches gameplan. Rondo's role on the Celtics is to grab rebounds to push the break more efficiently, instead of getting in position for the outlet pass (not to discredit Rondo, he is a terrific rebounder).

 

 

Clutch Play: I agree, both players perform very well under pressure. It's very difficult to pick one over the other. If I were a coach though, with a team that had prime Kobe and Jordan, I'd pick Kobe for the final shot, simply because he is the better player.

 

My Conclusion: Though Jordan is a better defender, Kobe is the better offensive player, and offensive ability outweighs defensive ability in this league. As you said, Kobe has the wider offensive arsenal and is dangerous from more areas on the court, AS WELL as a terrific slasher. As far as rebounding and "passing" goes, both are very good, but there are too many variables to say one is outright better than the other. Both rebound well for their position, both are terrific playmakers, and both play very well in the clutch. Kobe is better offensively, Jordan is better defensively, and offense wins out.

 

Kobe is better than Jordan.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Poe

[GamerGuy]

Im watching ESPN and some people are making me "lol". Kobe shot 6-24, would Jordan have done that in a final game?

1996 NBA Finals, Michael Jordan

Bulls 4, Sonics 2

GM1: 9-18 FG (50%), 9-10 FT, 28 PTS, 7 REB, 2 AST, 2 TO

GM2: 9-22 FG (40.9%), 10-16 FT, 29 PTS, 6 REB, 8 AST, 2 TO

GM3: 11-23 FG (47.8%), 11-11 FT, 36 PTS, 3 REB, 5 AST, 3 TO

GM4: 6-19 FG (31.6%), 11-13 FT, 23 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST, 4 TO

GM5: 11-22 FG (50%), 4-5 FT, 26 PTS, 4 REB, 1 AST, 2 TO

GM6: 5-19 FG (26.3%), 11-12 FT, 22 PTS, 9 REB, 7 AST, 5 TO

AVERAGES: 51-123 FG (41.5%), 56-67 FT (83.6%), 27.3 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 3.00 TO

 

And I agree with Ben. Why can't Kobe just be Kobe, and drop the comparisons with MJ.

[Poe]

And I agree with Ben. Why can't Kobe just be Kobe, and drop the comparisons with MJ.

Because Jordan and Kobe are the 2 best SGs of all time, and arguably the 2 best players overall. They are going to be compared.

[Clutch]

yo explosive, i see ur wade fan

 

i am too, and wade probably copied jordan more than kobe, his mom and sister said that he started doing things different and when they asked him what are u doin he replied with things like "cuz jordan walks like that" or "cuz jordan talks like that"

 

jordan is the image of perfection..as a great nba player (lebron, wade etc) THAT is what you want to try and achieve and get close to, thus why bron wore 23 and is wants to be the best on both ends of the floor, or why kobe has the balls to take big shots, and same with wade.

 

in order to achieve it, it makes sense to do everything that he did and hope for the same results...kobe has 5 rings now..jordan got his 5th at like age 35...kobe has his at age 31, he is doin good for himself, jordan wasnt that great a 3pt shooter till his 6th season...same thing with wade

 

so wade made sure he sucked 1st 5 seasons? to match jordan? since someone said that in another thread that kobe sucked in game 7 because jordan sucked in a close out game. LOL. so kobe used the force to make sure the in-and-out shots would roll out?...makes perfect sense

 

ive seen wade "celebrate like jordan" (wat does that even mean) when u win it happens naturally its not a computerized reaction most of the time..you react the way you have seen how others reacted

 

jordan won 6 championships...wade kobe etc...thats like the main person they have seen celebrate championships..so its imprinted in their heads the image of celebration

 

when i play soccer..when i score i sometimes without thought wag my finger like ronaldo, i dont even think about doin it sometimes. ive just seen him celebrate like that my entire life and that just happens

Edited June 19, 2010 by Clutch

[YugoRocketsFan]

yo explosive, i see ur wade fan

 

i am too, and wade probably copied jordan more than kobe, his mom and sister said that he started doing things different and when they asked him what are u doin he replied with things like "cuz jordan walks like that" or "cuz jordan talks like that"

 

jordan is the image of perfection..as a great nba player (lebron, wade etc) THAT is what you want to try and achieve and get close to, thus why bron wore 23 and is wants to be the best on both ends of the floor, or why kobe has the balls to take big shots, and same with wade.

 

in order to achieve it, it makes sense to do everything that he did and hope for the same results...kobe has 5 rings now..jordan got his 5th at like age 35...kobe has his at age 31, he is doin good for himself, jordan wasnt that great a 3pt shooter till his 6th season...same thing with wade

 

so wade made sure he sucked 1st 5 seasons? to match jordan? since someone said that in another thread that kobe sucked in game 7 because jordan sucked in a close out game. LOL. so kobe used the force to make sure the in-and-out shots would roll out?...makes perfect sense

 

ive seen wade "celebrate like jordan" (wat does that even mean) when u win it happens naturally its not a computerized reaction most of the time..you react the way you have seen how others reacted

 

jordan won 6 championships...wade kobe etc...thats like the main person they have seen celebrate championships..so its imprinted in their heads the image of celebration

 

when i play soccer..when i score i sometimes without thought wag my finger like ronaldo, i dont even think about doin it sometimes. ive just seen him celebrate like that my entire life and that just happens

 

Pretty sure i was joking.

[Poe]

BTW, Kobe said he was actually a Magic Johnson fan growing up, and not a Jordan fan. He didn't start incorporating Jordan's techniques until he understood his natural similarities to him.

[Poe]

One thing I'd like to add. Though I'd argue to no end that Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan, MJ was the most important player to ever play the game. He did wonders for the games popularity, and was a major influence in many of the top players today.

 

And had Jordan not existed, Kobe may not have been the player he has become. Kobe practically modeled his game after him. Jordan laid out the stepping stones, and Kobe perfected his playstyle. One day, someone will follow Kobe's footsteps and become the greatest ever. Then someone will be there after that player, then after that player, and so on and so on. As the game grows, so do the players, and there will always be someone better.