Michael Jordan vs. Kobe Bryant

[Check my Stats]

It all comes down to the bling on the fingers.... if Kobe wins one or two more without Shaq you can pretty much throw that entire argument out the window.

[Nitro]

Accomplishments: No weight should be put here whatsoever in my opinion. MVPs, DPOYs, ROYs, and All NBA Teams are biased by the voters, and every year you can argue how a different player should have won. None of these awards define the true measure of how good a player is. For example, Nash has 2 MVPs. Kobe has 1. Who is the better player throughout their careers?

 

Also, championships are team accomplishments. Leadership is only one part of winning. You can only put so much measurement into a player's ability by the level of his team.

 

Agree and disagree. Agree that people overblow the importance of championships/accolades in the Kobe/MJ debate because they are two of the most accomplished players in NBA history. However, accomplishments are a direct coorelation to dominance. If you don't dominate your era, then you can't really be compared to the all-time greats. At least IMO. KObe and MJ have both dominated their eras, so the accomplishments don't hold much weight.

 

The second paragraph has a lot of things wrong with it. First of all, you can't measure efficiency by FG% as much as you can by True Shooting percentage. TS%, as you probably know, accounts for all three types of field goals (2 pointers, 3 pointers, and free throws), and combines the percentages into one true percentage. I'll give an example as to why TS% is better than FG%. Say player A takes only 3s and player B takes only 2s. If player A shoots 33%, it would be the same efficiency as player B if he shot 50%, since they are both averaging a point per shot. Someone that takes more threes than another player will almost always have a lower FG%, even if they both score just as efficiently.

 

Shooting 50% from the floor for a guard like Wade is impressive, but you have understand the type of player he is, since Wade doesn't shoot as many threes as say, Kobe Bryant. That year Wade had a TS% of 57%, and Kobe had a TS% of 56%. So when you compare the all around shooting, even though Wade has the advantage in FG by shooting 49% that year and Kobe shot 46%, the True Shooting is nearly equal. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that TS% doesn't always prove the efficiency in one's ability to score, since it does not account for the difficulty in the player's shot. I don't think you can truly put a stat on that, so TS% is the best we got.

 

 

So what's the point of that argument I just made? Kobe Bryant's career TS% is 56%. Michael Jordan's is 57%. Their shooting is not as big of a difference as you think, and I've already made my point in the other topic that scoring is more difficult now due to more defensive freedom, huge advancements in game preparation, and improved perimeter and interior defense from both a player and coaching standpoint. Kobe still shoots about the same as Jordan.

 

First off, in the 5 year spans I was comparing each player (when both players were in their prime), MJ had a TS% of over 60% 3x. Kobe has never been over 58%. Using their career numbers is pointless in any aspect of the Kobe vs. Jordan debate because Kobe wasn't the best player in the league his first 6-7 seasons, and MJ was 40 years old shaking off 3 years of rust when he was with the Wizards. When comparing who's the better player, you have to use when each was in their absolute prime.

 

Secondly, the fact that Kobe takes 5-6 3's per game and takes tougher shots is exactly why I prefer MJ as a scorer. How exactly is Kobe's less efficient shot selection supposed to be an advantage in this arguement? If they're playing H-O-R-S-E it would make a difference, but in the NBA it doesn't. If we were comparing say...Dwyane Wade to Kobe, then you could say, "Kobe's versatility and consistent midrange game gives him an edge and ability to score if a defense clogs up the paint, whereas Wade will tend to struggle in that situation." However, as opposed to Wade, MJ had an amazing midrange and post game, and was able to beat teams and score efficiently even if he wasn't getting to the rim. Like Kobe, MJ had all the tools to counter whatever the defense threw at him.

 

Lastly, as for the defense/coaching, it's really a wash IMO. Zone defense is a gimmick, and all the great defenses still play man-to-man. The coaches will teach zone defense principles, but the actually schemes are man-to-man. And while teams are allowed to utilize zone defense nowadays, individual players cannot be 1/10 as physical as they were back in Jordan's playing days. They were able to handcheck on face-up's, and hit you hard on slashing attempts and finishes at the rim. That is why despite MJ getting to the rim more than Kobe, he averaged over 8.8 FTA's in a season only once, while Kobe's done it 3x.

 

First of all, the assist is a very weird statistic in my opinion (not that it shouldn't be there, but not every good pass that ultimately leads to a score is accounted for an assist, nor are passes to missed attempts, and passes to fouled players aren't rewarded in the stat sheet either, and neither are screens that "assist" a player's score), and it is probably the most affected by role out of all the stats, as well as the talent level of the player's teammates to make their open looks. And once again, defenses were played differently back then.

 

As far as rebounding goes, it can be largely based on teammates. With a better rebounding team, an individual player is less likely to get rebounds. This can also depend slightly on role as well, and a coaches gameplan. Rondo's role on the Celtics is to grab rebounds to push the break more efficiently, instead of getting in position for the outlet pass (not to discredit Rondo, he is a terrific rebounder).

 

As I said, it goes beyond the numbers, and I explained why I felt MJ was the better playmaker/ballhandler from an x's and o's perspective. Simply put, he was less TO prone, and MJ's ability to get to the rim so well helped collapse defenses better, allowing for a greater amount of open shots for his teammates. Kobe's inability to get to the rim against the Celtics is why in only two games did he dish out more than 4 assists. The mixture of TO's and style of play is why I'd take MJ in the playmaking despartment.

 

As for rebounding, from '88-'98, Jordan averaged 5.8RPG or better each and every year, including 5 years of 6.5RPG or better. Kobe's had only 5 years with 5.8RPG or better, and only one with more than 6.5RPG. Might I mention that back in the late '80's/early '90's, teams were grabbing about 200-300 rebounds less per year than they do today due to the emergence of the 3pt shot. And he even averaged 6.6RPG during a season with Dennis Rodman grabbing 15 boards and his team outrebounding their opponents by 6 per game.

 

And besides, like I mentioned, MJ was stronger, quicker, a higher vertical leap and bigger hands...he was without a doubt the better rebounder from all aspects.

 

My Conclusion: Though Jordan is a better defender, Kobe is the better offensive player, and offensive ability outweighs defensive ability in this league. As you said, Kobe has the wider offensive arsenal and is dangerous from more areas on the court, AS WELL as a terrific slasher. As far as rebounding and "passing" goes, both are very good, but there are too many variables to say one is outright better than the other. Both rebound well for their position, both are terrific playmakers, and both play very well in the clutch. Kobe is better offensively, Jordan is better defensively, and offense wins out.

 

Kobe is better than Jordan.

 

You made a case for Kobe being more versatile than MJ, but haven't made a case as to why Kobe's versatility beats out MJ's advantages in overall productivity and efficiency. Do that and then you got yourself a decent arguement.

[Guest STL10]

MICHAEL JEFFREY JORDAN

http://blog.cleveland.com/andone/2008/11/michael-jordan.jpg

 

Career Scoring Average: 30.1 PPG

Career Playoff Scoring Average: 33.4 PPG

Best Season: 37.1 PPG, 5.2 RPG, and 4.6 APG 86-87

Worst Season:20 PPG, 6.1 RPG, and 3.8 APG 02-03

Most Overlooked Season: 32.5 PPG, 8 RPG, and 8 APG 88-89

Most Underrated Stat: 3.16 SPG 87-88

Career FG %:.497

Most Points in a Regular Season Game: 69 89-90

Most Points in a Playoff Game:63 85-86

NBA Championships: 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUF8ZiMF9xw&feature=player_embedded

 

 

KOBE BEAN BRYANT

http://live.drjays.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/kobe-bryant-news-conf.jpg

Career Scoring Average:25.3 PPG

Career Playoff Scoring Average: 25.5 PPG

Best Season: 35.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, and 4.5 APG 05-06

Worst Season:7.6 PPG, 1.9 RPG, and 1.3 APG 96-97

Most Overlooked Season: 30 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 5.9 APG 02-03

Most Underrated Stat: 2.2 SPG 02-03

Career FG %:.455

Most Points in a Regular Season Game: 81 05-06

Most Points in a Playoff Game:50 05-06

NBA Championships: 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezuJfQXROOk

 

Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant both feature an incredible combination of athleticsm, skill and competiveness. Michael Jordan seems like an old man to some now. Many NBA fans never saw him in his prime. Many are willing to say Kobe has passed him or his nearing his throne. For now Jordan stands safely on top. Kobe is closing in though...

http://cdn.thefreshxpress.com/freshxp/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nba_g_jordan_kobe1_5761.jpg

Edited June 22, 2010 by STL10

[Nitro]

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/12590-michael-jordan-vs-kobe-bryant/

[Guest STL10]

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/12590-michael-jordan-vs-kobe-bryant/

 

I liked yours as well. This is a quicker read for those with ADD. I read yours, and I have to say you have excellent writing abilities.

[Legacy]

So many Jordan vs. Bryant arguments now, even more than before. Once Kobe gets his 6th ring, this will be very, very interesting. For the time being, I still take Mike over Kobe. If Bryant gets that 6th ring though, it will be the debate of the century. I currently view Jordan as the best player of all time, with Kobe among the top five, and possibly even the top three.

[Guest STL10]

So many Jordan vs. Bryant arguments now, even more than before. Once Kobe gets his 6th ring, this will be very, very interesting. For the time being, I still take Mike over Kobe. If Bryant gets that 6th ring though, it will be the debate of the century. I currently view Jordan as the best player of all time, with Kobe among the top five, and possibly even the top three.

 

1.Jordan

2.Bryant

Everyone Else.

[Legacy]

1.Jordan

2.Bryant

Everyone Else.

Magic Johnson also is along with them.

[Guest STL10]

Magic Johnson also is along with them.

 

Magic was ELITE, but not in their company. They are the stars of their era alone. In Magic's era it was Bird and Magic. Believe me Magic is the greatest PG ever, but these guys are beyond elite.

Edited June 22, 2010 by STL10

[YugoRocketsFan]

lol people are overrating Jordan/Kobe too much, they are great sure but guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson and Kareem deserve some respect.

[EastCoastNiner]

lol people are overrating Jordan/Kobe too much, they are great sure but guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson and Kareem deserve some respect.

 

If I had the #1 pick in an all-time draft, I am choosing Shaq.

[Guest STL10]

lol people are overrating Jordan/Kobe too much, they are great sure but guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson and Kareem deserve some respect.

 

Kareem is and will always be the greatest Center ever.

[EastCoastNiner]

Kareem is and will always be the greatest Center ever.

 

How about, not?

[Guest STL10]

How about, not?

 

Who is better than Kareem in his prime at Center? No one...

[Multi-Billionaire]

I'd like somewhere in between, me

 

 

That's my answer, because it's so tough.

[Guest STL10]

I'd like somewhere in between, me

 

 

That's my answer, because it's so tough.

 

1A.Jordan

1B.Kobe

[AllenIverson#1fan]

It dosen't matter even if Kobe gets his 6th ring. MJ is and the G.O.A.T.

If Kobe gets his 7th and passes MJ, that dosen't mean he's better. People are saying Kobe would be better if he won his 5th ring. Bill Russell has 11. That dosen't mean he's better than MJ or Magic Johhnson or Larry Bird.

[Guest STL10]

It dosen't matter even if Kobe gets his 6th ring. MJ is and the G.O.A.T.

If Kobe gets his 7th and passes MJ, that dosen't mean he's better. People are saying Kobe would be better if he won his 5th ring. Bill Russell has 11. That dosen't mean he's better than MJ or Magic Johhnson or Larry Bird.

 

Excellent point.

[ExplosiveScoring]

The original one.....MJ.

[Force]

No need for the two topics when they revolve around the same exact thing.

[Real Deal]

I merged three different Kobe/Jordan topics, all sitting on the first page of the comparison forum, haha. Just figured it's best to keep them together.

[Guest STL10]

I merged three different Kobe/Jordan topics, all sitting on the first page of the comparison forum, haha. Just figured it's best to keep them together.

 

Thanks! :glasses:

[Mato]

I believe the talent level now compared to when Jordan played in his prime is much greater. Look at who Jordan faced in the finals.. only once did he play a team with more than one great player on it. The Celtics this year could have beaten any of those teams and possibly even Jordan. Whoever said the defense is worse now must be joking. There are plenty of lockdown defenders that Jordan would have had to go through if he played now.

[JWaLL]

You can't compare different eras. If Jordan played in this era, he would adjust his game to be successful. There's no telling how successful or unsuccessful he would be. He was great in his era, Kobe was great in this era.

[Mato]

You can't compare different eras. If Jordan played in this era, he would adjust his game to be successful. There's no telling how successful or unsuccessful he would be. He was great in his era, Kobe was great in this era.

 

Kobe is great in this era. and you can compare because the talent level in every single sport now is greater than it was in the past. fact