Update: Fisher re-signs with LA (pg. 3)

[NJNJ]

It all started at a summer home of Lakers owner Jerry Buss, a Tuesday night meeting with General Manager Mitch Kupchak that continued over Italian food at a nearby eatery in north San Diego County.

 

Players were discussed, as was the possible return of Coach Phil Jackson, and, above all, finances.

 

In the end, Buss did what he had often done, agreeing to spend money if it would build a stronger team.

 

Buss gave Kupchak the green light to dip into the team's mid-level exception, allowing the Lakers to agree to terms Friday with veteran point guard Steve Blake on a four-year, $16-million contract that bought a pass-first player with a decent three-point touch.

 

The agreement, which came a day after Jackson decided to return to the Lakers for close to the $12 million he made last season, also provided insurance in case Derek Fisher doesn't return, a distinct possibility as his representatives and the Lakers continued to be out of alignment a couple of days into free agency.

 

Fisher, who turns 36 next month, wants a two-year deal worth $10 million after making $5 million last season. The Lakers are amenable to a two-year contract, but it will have to be several million under $10 million.

 

The Miami Heat and Cleveland Cavaliers have expressed interest in Fisher, who "wants to go to a championship team," said a source close to Fisher who requested anonymity during the negotiation process. "He feels he can be the final piece that can push a team over the top."

 

Full Article

[The Regime]

[expletive] the multi-year deal, as much as I love Fish locking him up for two years is a bad idea.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Confidence

[Guest STL10]

Fisher deserves the 5 mill a year IMO.

[kingfish]

Hah, yeah right. We hold all the cards now. Fish cant be greedy he should just take whatever were offering because chances are its fair market value for him anyway.

[Lkr]

Hah, yeah right. We hold all the cards now. Fish cant be greedy he should just take whatever were offering because chances are its fair market value for him anyway.

I'd rather have Fisher than Steve Blake. You guys all hate on Fisher, but he always proves his worth in the post season. OMG WE LOST A FEW REGULAR SEASON GAMES BECAUSE OF FISHER! Who really cares? We NEED Fisher

[Guest STL10]

I'd rather have Fisher than Steve Blake. You guys all hate on Fisher, but he always proves his worth in the post season. OMG WE LOST A FEW REGULAR SEASON GAMES BECAUSE OF FISHER! Who really cares? We NEED Fisher

 

Exactly. Blake hasn't proved he's clutch like Fisher.

[Poe]

Fisher needs to take the minimum and come off the bench like a good boy. He can make extra money as an assistant coach later.

[Real Deal]

Fisher has to be clutch to make up for the pathetic defense, and pathetic shooting, he gives us for the first 47 minutes of every game he plays.

 

The clutch excuse gets old, guys. If we had a point that could defend, we wouldn't need 6-7 Kobe game-winners or a Fisher clutch three.

[Lkr]

Fisher has to be clutch to make up for the pathetic defense, and pathetic shooting, he gives us for the first 47 minutes of every game he plays.

 

The clutch excuse gets old, guys. If we had a point that could defend, we wouldn't need 6-7 Kobe game-winners or a Fisher clutch three.

Or if Kobe didn't struggle in some games, we wouldn't need heroics. Fisher isn't the only player that struggles in games. I can point out numerous games where Kobe cost us the game, but your comeback will be he has proven himself in the clutch and you will stand by him. Same reason I will stand by Kobe AND Fisher. They both have proven themselves in the clutch.

We wouldn't be a two time championship team right now if Steve Blake had been on the team instead of Fisher the past two seasons.

[Real Deal]

Or if Kobe didn't struggle in some games, we wouldn't need heroics. Fisher isn't the only player that struggles in games. I can point out numerous games where Kobe cost us the game, but your comeback will be he has proven himself in the clutch and you will stand by him. Same reason I will stand by Kobe AND Fisher. They both have proven themselves in the clutch.

We wouldn't be a two time championship team right now if Steve Blake had been on the team instead of Fisher the past two seasons.

Dude, Fisher isn't even in the same boat as Bryant. We could go through every single NBA team and say that about every player, in that case...so therefore, we never blame anyone for our struggles?

 

So Derek Fisher had 3-4 big shots in the fourth quarter this season? That makes up for the rest of his play? I don't buy that. Throwing Kobe (or Gasol, or anyone) under the bus to defend Fisher...doesn't make sense at all.

 

It sucks when Kobe has to get his rest two minutes at a time, and play at an extremely high level the entire game. Go back to our schedule (the results) and check out how many real blowouts we had...double-digit wins, that will work. Then compare that to, say, Cleveland or the Magic.

 

The more we work Kobe, Gasol and Artest, the less chance we have at winning rings later. Through the season? Well, Kobe admitted he was on empty when he reached the Finals.

 

Fisher is wide open most of the time. He needs to knock down his shots and play defense, simple as that (and in a way, it is simple because he is always open and he's a physical player, but he'd rather miss layups and flop than anything else). Now he wants $5 million a year, three years? Please. He's going to play his cards until Mitch decides to let Shannon walk, just to make room for the extra $2-3 million.

 

We wouldn't win it all with Blake at the point? You can't say that. I believe everyone was saying we couldn't do it with Gasol, either...because I distinctly remember all of us wanting Garnett or Jermaine, and we felt that LA settled for Gasol and that the "first round virgin" would never help take us to the top.

 

I want Fisher back, but not for $5 million a year. That's actually $10 million because of the luxury tax. Not worth it, not for three more seasons.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Derek Fisher is the real star of this team.

[Newman]

I think that considering the number of seasons Fisher has devoted to this team, he should get 4m/year.

[Poe]

The Lakers should give Adam Morrison another year of being payed $5M. They obviously wouldn't have won without Ammo's support on the sidelines.

[NJNJ]

The Lakers should give Adam Morrison another year of being payed $5M. They obviously wouldn't have won without Ammo's support on the sidelines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJEl1ylNkg

 

You got that right.

[Nitro]

Fisher is vastly overrated in the clutch. According to 82games.com he shot only 32% from the field in clutch situations last season, and only 75% from the line. 95% of his shots were jumpers too. I'm sure if you give Blake as many open jumpers as Fisher gets he will knock 'em down, and he will also put a lot more pressure on teams by his ability to get to the rim.

 

Fisher doesn't deserve $5M. I don't get why he expects the same pay as last year just because Jackson got it. Age doesn't matter while coaching, playing does.

[Erick Blasco]

Fisher is vastly overrated in the clutch. According to 82games.com he shot only 32% from the field in clutch situations last season, and only 75% from the line. 95% of his shots were jumpers too. I'm sure if you give Blake as many open jumpers as Fisher gets he will knock 'em down, and he will also put a lot more pressure on teams by his ability to get to the rim.

 

Fisher doesn't deserve $5M. I don't get why he expects the same pay as last year just because Jackson got it. Age doesn't matter while coaching, playing does.

 

There is a difference between "clutch" and fourth quarter of Game 4 of the NBA Finals "clutch."

 

He shot 45%/36%/82% for the postseason, that's not bad.

 

You also miss out on intangible things like,

 

A) a player to reel in Kobe.

B) a player who leads by example

C) a player who won't lock in the playoffs on the road (Who on the Lakers really played aggressively in Game's 3,4,and 5 besides Fisher? Kobe for two games, and...)

 

Now of course Blake is an upgrade, but nobody knows how Blake will respond to a situation like Game 3 in Boston because the closest equivalence he's had is the NCAA title game. He's not that good of a defender, and he still has to earn Kobe's trust.

[Nitro]

There is a difference between "clutch" and fourth quarter of Game 4 of the NBA Finals "clutch."

 

He shot 45%/36%/82% for the postseason, that's not bad.

 

You also miss out on intangible things like,

 

A) a player to reel in Kobe.

B) a player who leads by example

C) a player who won't lock in the playoffs on the road (Who on the Lakers really played aggressively in Game's 3,4,and 5 besides Fisher? Kobe for two games, and...)

 

Now of course Blake is an upgrade, but nobody knows how Blake will respond to a situation like Game 3 in Boston because the closest equivalence he's had is the NCAA title game. He's not that good of a defender, and he still has to earn Kobe's trust.

 

The thing is, often times the team wouldn't need to be put in those close-game situations if they had more production at the PG position in the first 45min. How many times did the Lakers waste big leads? Just take a look at their point differential last season.

 

Fisher can't defend remotely athletic PG's, he makes horrible decisions with the pull-up 3, shot sub-40% from the field last season, and he's not a good passer. Blake is a smarter offensive player, can hold his own defensively, is a good passer, and shoots a better percentage from the field and from 3.

 

I agree Fisher has some intangibles that Blake has yet to prove he has. But Blake is the better player, is 5 years younger and Fisher expects to be making MORE than Blake the next 2 seasons?!?

[Erick Blasco]

The thing is, often times the team wouldn't need to be put in those close-game situations if they had more production at the PG position in the first 45min. How many times did the Lakers waste big leads? Just take a look at their point differential last season.

 

Fisher can't defend remotely athletic PG's, he makes horrible decisions with the pull-up 3, shot sub-40% from the field last season, and he's not a good passer. Blake is a smarter offensive player, can hold his own defensively, is a good passer, and shoots a better percentage from the field and from 3.

 

I agree Fisher has some intangibles that Blake has yet to prove he has. But Blake is the better player, is 5 years younger and Fisher expects to be making MORE than Blake the next 2 seasons?!?

 

The one type of player Fisher can defend well is a sturdy screen/roll player. I think Fisher defends Deron Williams better than any other point guard in the league. With the way the rest of the Lakers defend screens (have you seen Farmar and Brown defending D-Will) Utah might go back to calling its own number against the Lakers. It's only one team and one example but Fisher isn't completely useless on defense.

 

Also, of course Fish would cost $10 million with the luxury tax with the offer he's presenting, the Lakers could have both and be a better team for it. Have Fish start, have Fish close, and give Blake most of the minutes in the middle. I wouldn't be surprised if each side bargains a little and Fish ends up with a two-year $4 million per year contract. The Lakers don't want to see Fish leave, and I don't think Fish wants to leave.

 

One other thing that may be at play.

 

Fish's options to leave are limited because I believe his daughter may still need treatments (not 100% sure though).

[Nitro]

The one type of player Fisher can defend well is a sturdy screen/roll player. I think Fisher defends Deron Williams better than any other point guard in the league. With the way the rest of the Lakers defend screens (have you seen Farmar and Brown defending D-Will) Utah might go back to calling its own number against the Lakers. It's only one team and one example but Fisher isn't completely useless on defense.

 

I agree he's good with a player like D-Will, Kidd or Billups, who won't out-quick him and like to play with physicality. But with more athletic PG's it's a problem, including in PnR situations (that's why the Kings almost beat the Lakers in 2002, Bibby killed him in the PnR). Even though I'm reluctant to use opponent counterpart stats, he got roasted last year defensively stat-wise, letting up 51.4% EFG. Impressive feat considering how good the team's defense was all last season.

 

Fish's options to leave are limited because I believe his daughter may still need treatments (not 100% sure though).

 

Utah fans would riot if he left LA

Edited July 3, 2010 by Nitro1118

[Erick Blasco]

I agree he's good with a player like D-Will, Kidd or Billups, who won't out-quick him and like to play with physicality. But with more athletic PG's it's a problem, including in PnR situations (that's why the Kings almost beat the Lakers in 2002, Bibby killed him in the PnR). Even though I'm reluctant to use opponent counterpart stats, he got roasted last year defensively stat-wise, letting up 51.4% EFG. Impressive feat considering how good the team's defense was all last season.

 

 

 

Utah fans would riot if he left LA

 

Opponent counterpart stats are fair game. I looked at Fish's dMult numbers and they were pretty bad for last season.

 

And yeah Utah's fans would burn the streets of Salt Lake once Fisher left LA...

 

I wish 82games had their playoff clutch stats up for Fisher.

[Nitro]

I wish 82games had their playoff clutch stats up for Fisher.

 

They do for the 2009 post-season. 33% from the field, 100% of them jumpers.

 

In the 2008 post-season in the clutch he shot 13% from the field, once again 100% of them jumpers.

[Real Deal]

All Fisher has on Blake is that ability to hit the biggest shots with seconds left (the super-clutch, that's what I call it), leadership, and physical strength.

 

Blake takes him in everything else, especially defense, and that's one of the biggest holes we've ever had on this team...defense at the point. Smush was terrible, Atkins was horrible, Payton was out of his prime, Fisher doesn't have the legs for it, and Harper wasn't a point guard. We haven't had a real point guard in forever, let alone a defensive-minded one...and the ridiculous rumors about the triangle demanding a non-traditional point guard are asinine. Whoever thinks that should probably study the offense a bit more. In fact, it gets so bad that there are Lakers fans thinking Ray Allen and Mike Miller would be good point guards in our offense.

 

We finally have a traditional point guard, one that can pass very well, make the post-entry pass, and actually PLAY like a point. I absolutely love this deal we made.

 

I wouldn't mind having Fisher back, but that $5 million for three years is just Odumb.

[Check my Stats]

If Odom had to take a paycut last year than so does Fisher, a 2 year 6M deal sounds about fair at this point, Fisher has to be realistic at this point in his career if he wants to be on this team.

[The Artesticle]

this is all part of negotiating, after what we saw last year with LO, it doesn't worry me.

 

Nobody is stupid enough to throw 5 million at Fisher, at the end of the day, we are his best option and he knows it. Obviously he's going to start off negotiations on the high end (5 million) and the Lakers will start off at the low end (2.5 million). At the end of the day I see a deal getting done, my guess is probably a two year deal worth 3-4 million per.

[Sky]

Fisher has value as a leader, as the good cop to Kobe's bad in chemistry, in rising up to help win key playoff games How much is that worth? Lakers have decided it's worth less than 4M.

 

Things to factor in

 

Pro: trust of coaches and teammates, leadership, clutch play, Kobe listens to him, can defend slower physical guards, good for being a key piece in a finals win each of last two years.

 

Con: bad regular season play was markedly worse than 2008-09, can't play more than 20 minutes per in 2010-11 or risks Horry 2003 burnout, can't defend speed for even tenths of a second, bad in transition and finishing, shooting percentage is dropping. Old.

 

The other thing I add is we just saw a contract drive. Luke contract drive, rewarded, sucked ever after. Sasha contract drive, rewarded, sucked ever after. I don't think Mitch wants to go for the contract drive threepeat with Fish, particularly given how much Fisher dropped in the regular season. They want him back, but for what they expect him to be able to do in 2010-11 post contract drive. They also want to limit their risk, hence the one year offer. Fish wants two, both for the money, and to be locked in as union president in the lockout season. There is room for compromise but I think there's a ceiling. Somewhere around 2 years totaling 7 million or under, 1 year at 4. If Fisher absolutely insists on 2 and 10 imo his days as a Laker are over.

 

As for if they had Blake do they win. I think they are better. He's a real point, he can throw low post entry, he can manage games, run transition, see the floor, play intelligent angle D, he does everything better than Fisher on a skill basis and is six years younger. Fish is more clutch, a better leader, Blake is a much much more skilled point guard. He'll make the bigs more effective. He can get them the ball where Fisher can't, because Fisher is and always has been a 2 playing 1..

 

I think Fisher will be re-signed, but I don't think he'll be that happy about the money. He'll start but Blake will see more minutes and Blake could very well close.