Its a dynasty

[Nitro]

And Mike Brown is a disciple of Gregg Pop. That doesn't mean much to me.

 

Was defense ever a problem of the Cavs? No.

 

Was defense a problem last season on the Heat with far less talent than this upcoming season? No.

 

Spoelstra will get them to play good defense. They won't be the 2008 Celtics or the 2004 Pistons, but I see no reason why they won't have a very good defense to go along with such a dangerous offense.

 

Pierce and Allen were averaging 25-26 PPG before they played together. Garnett was at 24 PPG just a few seasons before the trade.

 

LeBron was the 2008 scoring champ, Wade was the 2009 scoring champ (who averaged 30PPG+ on like 55% shooting against Boston with no offensive help in the playoffs...shot over 60% against the 2006 Pistons in the ECF). Both average 7-8APG. Bosh was averaging 24PPG virtually the entire season last year. They are all arguably getting better. The Celtics' Big 3 was already on the downside of their careers when they joined together, and even in their primes I don't think they'd be able to combine for the offensive abilities of Wade/James/Bosh. This Heat trio clearly have more firepower on offense than that team did.

 

And Garnett was considered an elite defensive player. He was All-Defensive 1st Team six times, 2nd Team twice, before coming to Boston.

 

Yeah, but when he went to Boston he was able to put a greater focus on the defensive end, and it helped win him DPOY. Many of the little things he did on defense were because he didn't have that over-bearing offensive burden he had in Minny, and he was also in a system that preached defense. Ray and Paul never got attention for their defensive efforts individually until the Big 3 came to be. I think that same effect will happen with the Heat's trio (with Wade and LeBron already being All-Defensive caliber players).

[BasX]

Go Lakers. Go Celtics.

[SRV]

I have nowhere to put this..but this is all over my facebook and its annoying

 

I live in Miami-WADE county, by KeyBOSHcayne, on ponce de LEBRON

 

SO LAME

[Lkr]

How do they stop Dwight Howard? Boston had an answer for this

How do they stop Pau/Healthy Bynum? Boston didn't have an answer for this

 

Heat? They don't have either

[kingfish]

How do they stop Dwight Howard? Boston had an answer for this

How do they stop Pau/Healthy Bynum? Boston didn't have an answer for this

 

Heat? They don't have either

But how will they stop DWADE AND LEBRON!?!?!?

 

 

Simple, put Kobe on Wade, Artest on Lebron.

[SRV]

Guys, you can't start saying you will beat us when we only have 4 players on our roster.

[YugoRocketsFan]

But how will they stop DWADE AND LEBRON!?!?!?

 

 

Simple, put Kobe on Wade, Artest on Lebron.

 

LOL @ Kobe being able to defend Wade and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL @ Artest trying to defend LeBron.

[EastCoastNiner]

But how will they stop DWADE AND LEBRON!?!?!?

 

 

Simple, put Kobe on Wade, Artest on Lebron.

 

Even if people want to say that Wade and LeBron have the advantage, which they probably do, the difference between Kobe+Artest and LeBron+Wade is not nearly as big as the gap between Bosh+[expletive] versus Bynum(going to win the rebounding title next year)+Gasol.

 

 

Rebounding will kill the Heat.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Even if people want to say that Wade and LeBron have the advantage, which they probably do, the difference between Kobe+Artest and LeBron+Wade is not nearly as big as the gap between Bosh+[expletive] versus Bynum(going to win the rebounding title next year)+Gasol.

 

 

Rebounding will kill the Heat.

 

Read the original post brah.

[kingfish]

LOL @ Kobe being able to defend Wade and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL @ Artest trying to defend LeBron.

1) How is this not baiting?

 

2) They are the 2 best perimeter defenders in the NBA. So let me guess you think Wade can guard Kobe?

[YugoRocketsFan]

1) How is this not baiting?

 

2) They are the 2 best perimeter defenders in the NBA. So let me guess you think Wade can guard Kobe?

 

1)Its not baiting, what you said was a huge LOL.

2) They might be the 2 best perimeter defenders but they cant defend Wade and LeBron, you cant guard either of them one on one, and I never said Wade can defend Kobe, but I think LeBron would defend Kobe.

[Nitro]

2) They are the 2 best perimeter defenders in the NBA. So let me guess you think Wade can guard Kobe?

 

You think Kobe can guard Wade? Everyone excuses Kobe for shooting poorly against the Celtics but Wade averaged 33PPG on 55% shooting against them in the first round with no help. Wade's a former scoring champ. Wade and Kobe would probably cancel each other out, but Kobe would have just as much success of stopping Wade as vice versa.

 

And Bron averaged 32/10 on 50% shooting against Artest last year; he's not Durant, he is the one guy who Artest's physicality won't be a major problem. And LeBron rarely scores inefficiently...I remember in a Kobe vs Bron debate between me and RD I brought up a stat that Bron shot sub-40% like 15x last season to like 40x by Kobe.

[Real Deal]

LeBron will dominate a healthy Artest, Wade will dominate a healthy Kobe, Gasol can't do anything against Bosh (because Bosh will somehow be better defensively), Steve Blake doesn't even matter in this equation because the Heat have Chalmers, and [insert name here] will hold Bynum with ease. Odom? Doesn't matter. [insert name here] will hold him, too. Fisher? Please. [insert name here] has him locked up.

 

And I don't think anyone will be able to contain [insert name here] off the Heat's bench.

 

Be real, guys. Defense wins championships and is more important than offense, until 2011. Then it isn't.

[Nitro]

Be real, guys. Defense wins championships and is more important than offense, until 2011. Then it isn't.

 

Again, why do you think Heat won't have a good defense? Spoelstra is a defensive minded coach and the Heat had one of the best defenses in the league last year with little talent. Add an All-NBA Defensive 1st teamer in Bron, Bosh who did great in the 2008 Olympics defensively when he didn't have to carry the load offensively, and fill in gaps in the defense-oriented system and they should be fine. As I said before, I think individually their defense will improve immensely much like the 2008 Celtics' players did because they won't have to shoulder all the offensive load.

 

The rebounding will be the biggest issue, but the Heat outrebounded teams last year with their top rebounder averaging under 9RPG. I know this is a different team, but with a similar system and mindset I doubt they'll be getting killed on the boards or on defense.

[Real Deal]

Because O'Neal, Wright, Richardson, Anthony and Haslem weren't scrub defenders. None of them are on the roster today.

 

Miami was 15th in the rebounding category last season. They had five players pull down 5+ boards (rounding the numbers), and it was Haslem and O'Neal pulling down 15 together, Beasley at over six a game, Wade and Richardson at five.

 

Haslem, O'Neal and Beasley were all averaging almost two offensive boards a game, also.

 

Bosh and LeBron can grab their 15-16 a game, just as Haslem and Jermaine did. Wade can pull down his five. That leaves Beasley and Richardson's 11 to make up for, not to mention the rest of the boards I didn't count.

 

Once they reach that...well, good for them. They will still be in the middle of the pack in total rebounds.

 

This team can win 60 games...not going to say otherwise. They could win the East. I just don't think they can win it all. Not this upcoming season, at least, unless they sign major role players for minimum contracts that end up shocking us all, like Rondo did.

[Nitro]

Because O'Neal, Wright, Richardson, Anthony and Haslem weren't scrub defenders. None of them are on the roster today.

 

They weren't scrubs defensively of course, but at the same time I think they were largely so effective because of the slowed-down, defensive gameplan Miami uses. Since Wade came into the league the team hasn't had a top 10 defensive rating only twice...once they were 11th (08-09), and the other time was the season that led to the drafting of Beasley.

 

And LeBron is an All-Defensive 1st teamer, and I REALLY think based on what I saw in the Olympics that Bosh can do just fine defensively when it's a major focus of his. We don't know how the rest of the roster will fill out, but I do think the system alone will make them at least a very good defensive team. May or may not be absolutely great, but certainly enough.

 

Miami was 15th in the rebounding category last season. They had five players pull down 5+ boards (rounding the numbers), and it was Haslem and O'Neal pulling down 15 together, Beasley at over six a game, Wade and Richardson at five.

 

Haslem, O'Neal and Beasley were all averaging almost two offensive boards a game, also.

 

Bosh and LeBron can grab their 15-16 a game, just as Haslem and Jermaine did. Wade can pull down his five. That leaves Beasley and Richardson's 11 to make up for, not to mention the rest of the boards I didn't count.

 

Once they reach that...well, good for them. They will still be in the middle of the pack in total rebounds.

 

This team can win 60 games...not going to say otherwise. They could win the East. I just don't think they can win it all. Not this upcoming season, at least, unless they sign major role players for minimum contracts that end up shocking us all, like Rondo did.

 

First off, you have to consider pace and such with rebounding. They were top 10 in the league in opponent rebounding, and 6th in DRB%.

 

Secondly, I don't get how you think Bosh/LeBron will only grab 15-16 boards a game when Bosh alone averaged 11RPG last year (identical to Gasol in terms of boards and TRB%). LeBron grabbed 7.3 last season on a team that pounded opponents on the boards even moreso than LA, and I actually expect his boards to go up now that he won't have to drop 30+ every night. If they get Mike Miller like the rumors suggest, you can throw in another 4-5 boards on top of Wade's 4-5 as well. I'll low-ball it and say Bosh grabs 10, LeBron grabs 7, Wade grabs 4 and Miller grabs 4...that leaves about 15-16 more for 4-6 other rotational players to obtain. Not a very difficult feat, and I really think those players I mentioned will probably be averaging more boards than that.

[Real Deal]

The 15-16 a game was against the Lakers in a Finals match-up...not sure why I suddenly dipped into regular season averages. That's my mistake.

 

All of that, but we're just sitting here saying this without knowing who else is on the team, and you're putting a lot on Bosh's defense. What defensive-minded center do they plan on signing? If they don't find one, Bosh will have to play much better defense than you are even giving him credit for, which is too much to begin with, in my opinion.

 

I could care less about what those guys do on the glass. Perkins, Garnett, Rondo, Pierce, Sheed, Davis...again, all good rebounders. Didn't matter. We beat that team because we beat them on the glass and defended them well, and although the new Miami trio seems to be the offensive juggernaut nobody wants to tackle, it's nothing I'm concerned about. The old Suns lit teams up with about 250 points per game, and they also had very solid defensive players at certain positions (Bell, Marion), but we saw their 60-win seasons translate into playoff losses. Same with Sacramento, same with Dallas.

 

Yeah, they didn't have LeBron and Wade, but not even Shaq and Kobe won it every year, and they were two of the three best players in the NBA from 2001 on, and nobody in that trio is as dominant as Shaq was, and I would argue that Kobe was actually a better overall player than any of those three in 2002 through 2004 (not counting anything after because Shaq was dealt).

 

Again, you get a title contender...but I think LA has all the right pieces to put them to sleep. Kobe on Wade, Artest on James, Gasol on Bosh, and nobody to do anything about the likes of Bynum, Odom, Blake or Fisher. With LA chasing Turkoglu or Barnes with Vujacic and Walton, then McGrady with a minimum contract, it just creates another problem for opposing teams.

[Newman]

They won't break the Bulls record, but they will be a dynasty.

[Nitro]

All of that, but we're just sitting here saying this without knowing who else is on the team, and you're putting a lot on Bosh's defense. What defensive-minded center do they plan on signing? If they don't find one, Bosh will have to play much better defense than you are even giving him credit for, which is too much to begin with, in my opinion.

 

Honestly it won't take a whole lot to find a big-man that can defend/rebound well and finish off dunks. Honestly, if they got really desperate a guy like Jason Collins would even work (hell, he even shut Bosh down in the 2007 playoffs). They could always stick to Joel Anthony, consider signing Shaq, maybe try for Big Z (I believe he's unrestricted), Magloire, etc... They don't need much out of the position, just a big, serviceable body who won't kill chemistry.

 

The beauty of this new super-team is they will have plenty of hungry veteran FA's lining up to win a ring or two. Look at the 2008 Celtics and the PJ Brown signing. I don't see this team having a problem with playing scrubs many minutes. They'll get an extra 3 solid role players (already got 2 in Miller and Chalmers) to compete against the Lakers.

 

I could care less about what those guys do on the glass. Perkins, Garnett, Rondo, Pierce, Sheed, Davis...again, all good rebounders. Didn't matter. We beat that team because we beat them on the glass and defended them well, and although the new Miami trio seems to be the offensive juggernaut nobody wants to tackle, it's nothing I'm concerned about. The old Suns lit teams up with about 250 points per game, and they also had very solid defensive players at certain positions (Bell, Marion), but we saw their 60-win seasons translate into playoff losses. Same with Sacramento, same with Dallas.

 

Yeah, they didn't have LeBron and Wade, but not even Shaq and Kobe won it every year, and they were two of the three best players in the NBA from 2001 on, and nobody in that trio is as dominant as Shaq was, and I would argue that Kobe was actually a better overall player than any of those three in 2002 through 2004 (not counting anything after because Shaq was dealt).

 

You beat the Celtics because they couldn't score in the halfcourt; partially because of the Lakers' defense, partially because of the Celtics offense. You're talking about a team who scored 100+ points in only 3 of its last 21 games. Defense is key to championships, but so is having star players that can score in halfcourt situations. That's where the Lakers really beat the Celtics IMO, Kobe + Gasol was too much.

 

And please don't compare this Heat team to those teams. The Suns had horrible defensive talent, were way undersized, and played a system that didn't take defense seriously. The Kings didn't have enough talent defensively or a star that could dominate end of games (they choked so badly in 2002). The Mavs never had this kind of talent as well.

 

It's not that this team will be scoring 110PPG or locking teams down like the Celtics...but when you have 2 of the 3 best players in the league, and also a top 10-15 player, and soon to be a perfect role player in Miller, you're going to find ways to win games. As Kobe said at the end of the season it's just about winning games. When you have that much talent that the Heat will have, they will find ways to win games. I'm assuming their identity will be a defensive one based on Spoelstra/Riley's history, and the fact that since the 2008 Olympics where they won Gold by dominating team on defense, the Big 3 will make it a point to do the same here.

 

Again, you get a title contender...but I think LA has all the right pieces to put them to sleep. Kobe on Wade, Artest on James, Gasol on Bosh, and nobody to do anything about the likes of Bynum, Odom, Blake or Fisher. With LA chasing Turkoglu or Barnes with Vujacic and Walton, then McGrady with a minimum contract, it just creates another problem for opposing teams.

 

I think Wade/Kobe would cancel each other out, they always seem to play each other very evenly. Kobe would probably be more productive point-wise considering circumstance of teammates, but Wade will be more efficient from the field. LeBron ain't Durant...he'll take it right at Artest and won't be forced into volume shooting, and we all know how awful Artest is offensively. Gasol will probably outplay Bosh, but I don't see that being very lopsided.

 

After that, you're trying to sell me on a supporting roster that you always bash? I'm sure you consider Miller a better player than Odom (at the very least more consistent), Bynum hasn't been healthy in the post-season in like 4 years, and depending on how Miami decides to use the PG position Fisher could be at a major disadvantage.

 

IMO some of the other rumored FA's thinking about tagging along in LA to win a championship would be just as likely to try the same in Miami. And as I'm sure you can tell, Riley is damn good at selling that franchise haha.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Nitro1118

[Real Deal]

I bash Drew because he's always injured, never said anything else about him. And Fisher probably won't be starting for us, at least once we get into the playoffs. Blake is already signed and is three times the point guard Derek is.

 

Odom is a bad player against elite defensive teams. I'm 100% confident that this Miami team won't be elite in that regard, because no matter what anyone says, nobody can convince me that Bosh and Collins (or Bosh and Shaq, Magloire, or whatever scrub you stick at the five) can provide enough frontcourt defense to boost them into the top 3-5 in the league. Inconsistent? Sure he is, but he's not a black hole, and he'll provide for us on the glass, at least.

 

Miller isn't signed yet. It's Miami, Chicago or New York. He starts for the last two teams, may be convinced that he contends with Chicago. Miller turned down the Lakers' offer of 5 years, $30 million (something like that) just to seek more money. At the time, that was his best shot at a championship. You're telling me he won't think about more money in New York or Chicago, instead of taking the same exact deal in Miami? Not to mention he gets to start?

 

I'm pushing it by declaring this team will make the Finals, quite frankly because there's no team yet. Once they sign their guys (whoever it may be), I'll really dive into what I think will happen in 2011.