Better value for Collison?

[moeroadkill]

i think they sold themselves short a bit

Trevor is a nice player and playing along side Paul will only help him but collison is a rising young pg if he continues to improve he will be a very good player. i dont know who they could have gotten but im sure there were some more offers?

[Guest STL10]

IMO they could've gotten Paul George, but they wanted a player who is proven.

[Universe]

But then you take the chance with him playing behind a healthy Paul which lowers his value even more.

[Dzy]

They definitely could have gotten more for him. But this off-season was pretty big so there might not have been a good enough offer since most of the all-star players moved to a different team. Plus I doubt New Orleans was shopping Collison until Paul demanded that trade which was after all the big moves were made.

[Nitro]

My big problem was they took a 18/9 rookie (as a starter) and essentially traded him for an above-average role player. How in the hell is that supposed to keep Paul in NO? Now if Paul leaves they are left with Trevor freaking Ariza, Emeka Okafor and his gigantic contract, and no All-Star level PG to replace Paul.

 

I know Paul sells tickets and is an absolutely elite player, but he's unhappy and almost certainly not going to be a Hornet by 2012. They should have traded him for a bunch of assets and cap relief while keeping Collison, who has plenty potential himself.

[Dash]

Better question is why didn't Houston trade Ariza for Collison/Posey straight up rather than taking the worst player in the trade.

[Nitro]

Better question is why didn't Houston trade Ariza for Collison/Posey straight up rather than taking the worst player in the trade.

 

Three reasons-

 

1) Ariza was extremely selfish, inefficient and dissapointing as a Rocket, and IMO didn't fit in with the team. After they got Martin it made Ariza's abilities as a scorer at the wing expendable. They got Lee who is also a high-energy player, can defend well and doesn't come with the baggage.

 

2) Money. They saved a TON of money on the trade. If I have it right they got below the luxory tax which saves a lot (by taking on a lesser contract in Courtney Lee's and a TPE).

 

3) As for Collison, they already have a very good young PG in Aaron Brooks. Granted Collison is probably already the better player and a much better playmaker, but they would have had to take on Posey which is not a favorable contract (which goes back to #2).

 

On paper it looked like the Rockets got robbed, but IMO they made a solid move.

[Multi-Billionaire]

I wouldn't trade Ty for Trevor...

 

He'll never be an All Star, he will forever be a bench player. He has no game IQ... Hornets could get much more than Trevor for Collison... they sold themselves short. This will not make CP happy by any imagination... in fact, it should be more reason for him to leave.

[Dash]

Three reasons-

 

1) Ariza was extremely selfish, inefficient and dissapointing as a Rocket, and IMO didn't fit in with the team. After they got Martin it made Ariza's abilities as a scorer at the wing expendable. They got Lee who is also a high-energy player, can defend well and doesn't come with the baggage.

 

Horrible misconception of Trevor, he was by no means a selfish player. All Trevor ever did during his tenure was listen and do what the coaches told him to do, which was chuck up shots all games. The goal was to bring him along much like the Thunder did with Kevin Durant but obviously it didn't turn out anywhere close to that. Ariza was rather inefficient and disappointing as a first option but when we traded for Martin everything began to fall in place. His shooting percentages were horrible prior to the Kevin Martin trade, but his stats post ASG were rock solid. His field goal percentage went straight up to 44% and he was 41% from behind the arc. Inefficient right?

 

As a scorer he was definitely expendable as 7'6 monster in Yao Ming needs accurate shooters to swarm outside the three. Yao will have those shooters in Kevin Martin and Aaron Brooks, both shoot the ball exceptionally well. Not to mention that Scola can shoot the 15 foot jump just fine too and again its not like Trevor is a bad shooter at all, he numbers went up as soon as he was in a more subtle role. Anyways you know what would be PERFECT in the middle of those skilled big men and pure shooters? A defensive specialist that can guard the best man on the floor that can also get steals and start fastbreaks. Do I think Lee is a good fit next to Yao Ming and Martin? Definitely. But is he a better fit than Trevor? Don't think so.

 

Way I see it is we traded a starting small forward for a backup 2 guard, a position where Houston already had Bud and Taylor for.

 

2) Money. They saved a TON of money on the trade. If I have it right they got below the luxory tax which saves a lot (by taking on a lesser contract in Courtney Lee's and a TPE).

 

Name one team competing for the championship that worries about salary and lux tax. You can't.

 

3) As for Collison, they already have a very good young PG in Aaron Brooks. Granted Collison is probably already the better player and a much better playmaker, but they would have had to take on Posey which is not a favorable contract (which goes back to #2).

 

On paper it looked like the Rockets got robbed, but IMO they made a solid move.

 

Aaron Brooks has playmaking skills of a D leaguer and was by far the most selfish player on this team last season. When Kevin Martin came over, instead of embracing a new high profile scorer Brooks gave Martin the cold shoulder and literally would NEVER pass him the ball in his first few games here. It got better as time went along but Brooks was still a rather selfish player, he seemed to only pass the ball when he failed to penetrate and two or three defenders are hauling over him. You said earlier in your post that Ariza was an extremely selfish player, which again isn't true as Trevor averaged 4.4 assists a game while Aaron barely managed to get one more assist than Ariza.

 

I do like Brooks though but his playmaking abilities leave little to be desired. Collison, as you said, is probably the better player or at least close enough and far superior as a playmaker. Give me Collison any day.

[ChosenOne]

Dash doin work i like it haha

[Klashnekoff]

Dash didn't mention Courtney Lee once lmao. I can see your unhappy with our garbage. Yes he is garbage, thank you for getting us Troy.

[Big Penny]

they could've got more value for Collison... they could've got Luke Walton (who's a fabolous passer and has a ton of IQs) and Sasha Vujacic (who is an all-time great shooter)

I wouldn't trade Ty for Trevor...

 

He'll never be an All Star, he will forever be a bench player. He has no game IQ... Hornets could get much more than Trevor for Collison... they sold themselves short. This will not make CP happy by any imagination... in fact, it should be more reason for him to leave.

how many times have you watched Ariza play?

[Newman]

Well, I believe that it's pretty obvious to other teams that the Hornets do not want to get rid of CP3 and instead was offering Collison with Posey/Okafor due to their large contracts. I do not think the Hornets could have gotten anyone better than Ariza, who is a scorer and can fit into the Hornets' system.

[Nitro]

Horrible misconception of Trevor, he was by no means a selfish player. All Trevor ever did during his tenure was listen and do what the coaches told him to do, which was chuck up shots all games. The goal was to bring him along much like the Thunder did with Kevin Durant but obviously it didn't turn out anywhere close to that. Ariza was rather inefficient and disappointing as a first option but when we traded for Martin everything began to fall in place. His shooting percentages were horrible prior to the Kevin Martin trade, but his stats post ASG were rock solid. His field goal percentage went straight up to 44% and he was 41% from behind the arc. Inefficient right?

 

Ariza was selfish last season. The first few months he was jacking up 15+ shots per game and shooting a horrific 36%. Good for worst on the team for anyone who played more than a few minutes per game for a handful of game. That just should not happen, if you're on THAT horrible of a cold streak you have to tone down the shooting and get others involved. Continuing it is a glaring sign of selfishness. It was obvious when he was on the court that he had selfish tendencies, from his chucking to throwing up his hands when not getting a pass to other things. What just came out about his rift with Brooks kind of backs this up as well.

 

The goal was NEVER to bring him along like the Thunder did Durant. You don't get a Durant-type talent or go-to scorer for the MLE. They got him because he's still young and he had an impressive 2009 post-season. They took a gamble and it backfired. If his attitude and selfishness tendencies were as promising as his talent, he'd still be on the roster.

 

And yes, 44% shooting from the field and 66% from the FT line from a SF is still pretty inefficient, despite the impressive 41% from beyond the arc.

 

Anyways you know what would be PERFECT in the middle of those skilled big men and pure shooters? A defensive specialist that can guard the best man on the floor that can also get steals and start fastbreaks. Do I think Lee is a good fit next to Yao Ming and Martin? Definitely. But is he a better fit than Trevor? Don't think so.

 

Shane Battier is still a very good defender and will do a fine job on the other team's best wing player. And it's not about Lee being better than Ariza. It's about the things the team acquires by getting rid of Ariza (efficiency/chemistry/money) while also adding a very solid role player in Courtney Lee.

 

Name one team competing for the championship that worries about salary and lux tax. You can't.

 

But the Rockets aren't a championship contender, and if Yao's foot acts up and he retires they'll be a perrenial lottery team. For a solid, middle of the pack playoff team like the Rockets, saving a bunch of money on a move that won't significantly help/hurt them on the court is a very smart decision.

 

You said earlier in your post that Ariza was an extremely selfish player, which again isn't true as Trevor averaged 4.4 assists a game while Aaron barely managed to get one more assist than Ariza.

 

First off, I agree with much of what you said in this part of your post as I acknowledged in my first post. However, this part is misguided. Brooks had a TS % over 6% better than Ariza's for the season, and just like Ariza his shooting percentages and assists all spiked post All-Star break. Brooks is a scoring PG and he does it on decent efficiency. The Rockets are a team built on consistently good unselfishness and passing throughout the roster, which is why they averaged more assists than opponents last season with Brooks' low 5.3APG leading the team.