New York City Mosque

[Real Deal]

I don't watch Fox News.

 

I watch CNN, and read articles and stories online.

Guess they were wrong, also, because it was stated from the start that it wouldn't be completed until late Fall (projected), and it's nearly impossible to build something that large so quickly, let alone finalize the sale, find and hire the crew, plan the architecture, and actually do the work AND open the building.

 

Not sure who started that rumor about 9/11, but it was ridiculous and just something to release to the public to gather more negativity around the project.

[JYD]

Yes, because Sprint is thought to be have responsible to terrorist attack. Just stop. You're comparisons make no sense at all. .

 

Muslims were responsible for the attacks, even though it was a small amount of them.

 

Sprint doesn't calculate to bill you on a certain date. It goes by when you subscribed, paid, ect.

 

They have a choice when to open the building.

And Christians have committed a ton of disgraceful acts.

 

Your ignorance is honestly baffling.

Edited August 28, 2010 by JYD

[EastCoastNiner]

And Christians have committed a ton of disgraceful acts.

 

Your ignorance is honestly baffling.

 

No [expletive] Christians have committed terrible acts. They have probably committed more than Muslims.

 

However, an event so big as 9/11 where people that believed in a certain religion used their views in a terrorists attack on our country is completely different. I think it's ignorant how you can't understand how people would be offended.

 

Tell the victims families of 9/11 that they are ignorant. There's a reason construction crews are refusing to build the Mosque/center.

[Teletopez]

I think someone quoted Daisy Khan as saying that they planned to open it up on 9/11/11. I don't know if she was misquoted or if that was somewhere in their plans.

 

Either way, it isn't a slap in the face, if you consider what the intentions of the planners would be behind opening it up on that date. What the heads of the project have in mind (assuming the opening date rumor is true) is that ten years later, terrorism is on the losing end, Islam is no longer associated with such deeds, and those whose lives were lost being caught in the middle of this conflict are remembered. It shouldn't be viewed as a slap in the face.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Waldo

[JYD]

I don't really see how the Muslim religion has to do with the terrorist attacks. So the "masterminds" behind 9/11 were Muslims, most terrorists are Muslims, but that has nothing to do with terrorism. TheMuslim religion and Terrorism doesn't really have a tie besides the fact that the Middle Eastern Extremists are Muslim...the religion doesn't really have a tie to 9/11.

[EastCoastNiner]

I think someone quoted Daisy Khan as saying that they planned to open it up on 9/11/11. I don't know if she was misquoted or if that was somewhere in their plans.

 

Either way, it isn't a slap in the face, if you consider what the intentions of the planners would be behind opening it up on that date. What the heads of the project have in mind (assuming the opening date rumor is true) is that ten years later, terrorism is on the losing end, Islam is no longer associated with such deeds, and those whose lives were lost being caught in the middle of this conflict are remembered. It shouldn't be viewed as a slap in the face.

 

You're probably right about the opening date. I'm pretty sure that it was just misinformation, so I was wrong about that.

 

However, you can try and twist what you think the meaning of opening the Mosque would mean, but there are many people that feel differently.

 

I'm not going to go too much into it now, but Muslims build Mosque's in major cities when the sense victory and that they have conquered certain people. I will list a bunch of examples later such as Jerusalem when they build Mosques there. Whether it's fair or not, Islam is rooted in terrorism, even though it's a very, very, small portion of people.

[Teletopez]

Again, I know Muslims and respect them, and have taken classes on Islam, but I just think this is wrong.

 

And, if you don't think the the Qu'ran or the actual religion of Islam bears any fault, you are just naive.

 

May I refer you to: Quaran 9:29

 

You can say that verse is misunderstood, but it's pretty clear what the message is.

It most definitely is clear.

Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

 

It's just that people who target this verse and associate it with today's terrorism often neglect the last few words of the translation. As you would imagine, that causes a bit of a problem.

 

Jizya is a tax that applies to Islamic states. Hence, I don't believe that verse pertains to what you were trying to add to the discussion.

[AtTheDriveIn]

All this time, I don't think EastCoastNiner has replied properly to a single comment anyone had made in this thread. What a horribly ignorant person.

 

I can't believe that you (ECN) actually bought into the deal that they're going to open it on the tenth anniversery, even though it was said weeks ago that that was just blanant lied put out by politicians and newsreaders who are not apparently allowed their own opinion on the news. And then to make it seem like the people who are builiding this thing are backtracking because they said it definitely wont open on September 11. How unbias of you to pin clear false advertisment on the Islamic population just because you don't want the westerners to be wrong.

 

It's ignorant idiots like you who will never allow religion and freedom of relgion to be just that. Muslims after 9/11 have to hide the fact that they're Muslim because you're going to call them wrong (all for the sake of intellectual conversatoin, of course.. who would want to look like they're being intolerant?) because of what happened on 9/11 like it was their fault. It's absolutely idiotic. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The point of the mosque is to raise awareness that Islam is actually in New York City whether you like it or not and to teach people about the religion as well as provide community services to those who seek it. The people who are building the community center are doing absolutely nothing wrong. They haven't killed, they haven't insulted other religions, they aren't the ones on TV attacking each other over nonsense. They're kind people who want to do something for the Islamic community. And acts of service and kindness are wrong becuase? Oh right, because it's 2 blocks (do you even know how big a block is? It's ridicolous to think that this is your big issue. Go outside and walk two blocks and tell me it's not a long distance to walk) away from an act of terrorism that the people building the community center DIDN'T CONDONE.

[EastCoastNiner]

It most definitely is clear.

 

 

It's just that people who target this verse and associate it with today's terrorism often neglect the last few words of the translation. As you would imagine, that causes a bit of a problem.

 

Jizya is a tax that applies to Islamic states. Hence, I don't believe that verse pertains to what you were trying to add to the discussion.

 

I was expecting you to comment about the last line in the verse. With or without that last line, the message is very clear. Some people are going to want to take it out of , and many people do take it out of context.

 

I just want to ask you one question:

 

Do you understand why some people, especially the families of 9/11 victims would be offended by this Mosque/community center being built?

[EastCoastNiner]

All this time, I don't think EastCoastNiner has replied properly to a single comment anyone had made in this thread. What a horribly ignorant person.

 

I can't believe that you (ECN) actually bought into the deal that they're going to open it on the tenth anniversery, even though it was said weeks ago that that was just blanant lied put out by politicians and newsreaders who are not apparently allowed their own opinion on the news. And then to make it seem like the people who are builiding this thing are backtracking because they said it definitely wont open on September 11. How unbias of you to pin clear false advertisment on the Islamic population just because you don't want the westerners to be wrong.

 

It's ignorant idiots like you who will never allow religion and freedom of relgion to be just that. Muslims after 9/11 have to hide the fact that they're Muslim because you're going to call them wrong (all for the sake of intellectual conversatoin, of course.. who would want to look like they're being intolerant?) because of what happened on 9/11 like it was their fault. It's absolutely idiotic. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. The point of the mosque is to raise awareness that Islam is actually in New York City whether you like it or not and to teach people about the religion as well as provide community services to those who seek it. The people who are building the community center are doing absolutely nothing wrong. They haven't killed, they haven't insulted other religions, they aren't the ones on TV attacking each other over nonsense. They're kind people who want to do something for the Islamic community. And acts of service and kindness are wrong becuase? Oh right, because it's 2 blocks (do you even know how big a block is? It's ridicolous to think that this is your big issue. Go outside and walk two blocks and tell me it's not a long distance to walk) away from an act of terrorism that the people building the community center DIDN'T CONDONE.

 

I can already tell you haven't read the thread because I have quoted people on a lot of my posts, but good try. .

 

Your first paragraphs, I already said that I was probably wrong about the opening date, but you made no sense with the comment about westeners.

 

You obviously haven't read this thread at all because I have no problem with Muslims as a whole. Most of them are nice and peaceful people. However, it's time for a lot of you to wake up and face reality that a few terrorists are the reason that many people view Islam in a negative light, especially when the beliefs of Islam(not really though) were used to fuel the worst terrorist attack in our country. The building will cost $100 million, so with that money, they can sure as hell find another place to put it. They have every right to put it where they want to now, but that doesn't make it right. You are saying it's wrong for people to not want it there, but many people think it's wrong to open up wounds of the 9/11 victims families, NYC, and the U.S> population. It will also be a total safety issue for Muslims as well, so I hope they are ready to face possible harm, even though I don't wish that on them, there's just a history of it.

Here were some reactions by citizens after the 9-11 attacks:

 

On the afternoon of Saturday, 2001-SEP-15, a gunman killed the 49 year old owner of a gas station in Mesa, AZ. He was a Sikh. His family believes that he was killed because he "looked Middle Eastern." Additional shots were fired at a Lebanese clerk and at the home of an Afghan family.

 

On the evening of Saturday, 2001-SEP-15, a gunman killed a Pakistani Muslim store owner in Dallas, TX.

 

Adel Karas, 48, an Egyptian-American grocer was shot and killed near his International Market store in San Gabriel, CA. He was a Copt -- neither Muslim nor Arab. No money was taken. Police are investigating the murder as a possible hate crime.

 

A man drove his car through the front entrance of Parma Mosque in Cleveland OH.

 

Also on Saturday, a Christian of Egyptian origin was shot dead in California.

bullet Near Chicago, IL, there was a march in which about 300 anti-Arab youths waved flags, shouted "USA, USA," and attempted to march on a mosque in Bridgeview, IL -- a suburb southwest of Chicago. Colin Zaremba, 19, said: "I'm proud to be American and I hate Arabs and I always have." Three demonstrators were arrested.

 

In Chicago, a Molotov cocktail was thrown t an Arab-American community center. There were no injuries and little damage.

 

In Huntington, NY, Adam Lang, reportedly a drunken driver, 75, allegedly tried to kill a Pakistani woman with his car. He later followed the woman into a store and threatened to kill her for "destroying my country."

 

In Gary, IN, a man wearing a mask pumped over 20 bullets from a high-powered assault rifle at a Muslim, Hassan Awdah. He survived. Hassan is a U.S. citizen, born in Yemen.

 

In Lynnwood, WA, a mosque was vandalized.

 

In Suffolk County, NY, a man allegedly made anti-Arab threats and pointed a handgun at the employee of a gas station. He was arrested.

 

In a prison in Washington state, two inmates fought over an anti-Muslim slur.

 

A gasoline bomb was thrown into the home of a Sikh family in California.

bullet Two mosques were firebombed with Molotov cocktails during the weekend of OCT-20-21. They are located in Burlington and Mississauga, near Toronto ON Canada. Kendrich House, 35, from Oakville ON has allegedly been charged.

Go ahead and put a mosque there and see what happens............ I hope nothing happens to anybody if the Mosque/community center is built, but I won't hold my breath.

 

 

Flash and I are pretty much done in here because everything just flies over your head and you can't think for yourself. The only two people that have added any sort of substance are Brandon and Waldo, but I respectfully disagree with them.

Edited August 28, 2010 by EastCoastNiner

[Teletopez]

Do you understand why some people, especially the families of 9/11 victims would be offended by this Mosque/community center being built?

I didn't get a chance to finish this post last night, but the answer to your question is in it:

 

What's more important than this mosque project succeeding is the true concept of Islam settling into the minds of everyone who incorrectly associates it with certain elements of today's world.

 

A few people disagree with establishing this religious center where it is. Person A's belief is that this is not correct on the planners' parts, as it may bring back unwanted memories into the minds of victims, regardless of whether they interpret Islam correctly. Person B believes something along the lines of Muslims not deserving a religious center so close to Ground Zero/this is another threat to the city, etc.

 

I don't completely agree with Person A because I think that, since we are discussing "reality" in this topic (and here's your answer), the reality is that the Muslims should not have to deal with any of the problems left behind by those who associated themselves with Islam. I see the reasoning behind those offended, but I do not truly understand that reasoning.

 

Meanwhile, person B is whose beliefs are more important to change, in my opinion. In the end, I disagree with both of these groups that are opposed to this project. But my greater concern is the misconceptions of Islam that, in the big picture, affect, along with this religious center's plans, plenty of other parts of Muslims' lives and the Muslim world.

[YugoRocketsFan]

The only thing with Islam is that it limits freedom and puts the muslim world 1000 years behind the rest of the world.

[AtTheDriveIn]

I can already tell you haven't read the thread because I have quoted people on a lot of my posts, but good try. .

 

You quote, but you don't actually reply. You just sort of say the same thing over and over.. and over again.

[Clutch]

The only thing with Islam is that it limits freedom and puts the muslim world 1000 years behind the rest of the world.

 

Islam practiced properly...and you would see the same thing durin the "dark ages" in europe....middle east was in the "golden ages"

Edited August 29, 2010 by Clutch

[Hawks Fly High]

Islam practiced properly...and you would see the same thing durin the "dark ages" in europe....middle east was in the "golden ages"

But we are talking about the present not the past... his point is that other religions have evolved but in some ways Islam hasnt. EX: give women less rights and making them wear the hijab.

[Lkr]

But we are talking about the present not the past... his point is that other religions have evolved but in some ways Islam hasnt. EX: give women less rights and making them wear the hijab.

Wearing the hijab isn't seen as a limitation of rights to Muslim women. It is part of the culture.

[Flash]

Wearing the hijab isn't seen as a limitation of rights to Muslim women. It is part of the culture.

 

That's what hes saying though..You'd think that over time the culture would've evolved to the point where that wasn't necessary anymore.

[Hawks Fly High]

It may have been a part of the culture back when people were less civlized around women but I think we can all agree that women are more than capable of caring for themselves now and making their own decisions

[Lkr]

That's what hes saying though..You'd think that over time the culture would've evolved to the point where that wasn't necessary anymore.

It isn't necessary. The women don't mind it, so why is it a big deal? They disagree with our way of dressing, you agree with their way. Who cares, as long as people are comfortable, it isn't a big deal.

[Lkr]

It may have been a part of the culture back when people were less civlized around women but I think we can all agree that women are more than capable of caring for themselves now and making their own decisions

lol, ask a woman wearing a hijab if she would rather not have it. Most likely response is that they would rather wear it. Even the women in the US that wear them. those women also chose to be Muslim

Edited August 29, 2010 by Lkr

[Legacy]

In the Holy Qur'an it actually states that women have just as much or even more rights than men do. In a religion class I just recently took, there was a powerpoint on the differences of womens' rights in each religion. Islam actually gave women the most rights, even more than Christianity which many people found surprising. It was based off quotes in the Qur'an and Bible.

 

Just because the Taliban and terrorists in the middle east force stuff, it doesn't mean that they are correct. They are not even Muslims because they don't follow the basic principles of the religion.

[Hawks Fly High]

Not the best example by me. But if you have been following the news in Iran a woman will be stoned to death for adultery with a single witness or trial. Are those rights?

[Teletopez]

But we are talking about the present not the past... his point is that other religions have evolved but in some ways Islam hasnt. EX: give women less rights and making them wear the hijab.

Islam does not require women to wear hijab. And the aspects in which women are given less rights are not exactly concepts of Islam that I believe need to evolve.

 

It may have been a part of the culture back when people were less civlized around women but I think we can all agree that women are more than capable of caring for themselves now and making their own decisions

Hijab does not put any restriction on women caring for themselves and making their own decisions. Besides, Muslims choose to follow Islam because they are willing to agree with its principles, no?

 

Not the best example by me. But if you have been following the news in Iran a woman will be stoned to death for adultery with a single witness or trial. Are those rights?

If you mean without a single witness or trial, I believe Islam is very strict on having verification before responding to anything in life, which would include a case like this.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Waldo