Griffin Dominates Thabeet

[The Goods]

It was No. 1 vs. No. 2. And it was no contest.

 

Power forward Blake Griffin, taken with the No. 1 pick in last month's draft by the Los Angeles Clippers, met up Thursday with Memphis, featuring No. 2 pick Hasheem Thabeet, a center. It was no surprise Griffin fared much better than Thabeet, perhaps the biggest underachiever of the NBA Summer League.

 

In the Grizzlies' 85-68 win, Griffin scored 18 points and grabbed 15 rebounds. Thabeet shot an embarrassing 1-of-3, not making his first basket until 30 seconds were left in the game, and finished with seven points, three rebounds and seven fouls (players can't foul out).

 

It wasn't a surprise there was such a big difference in how the two looked. In his first three games, Griffin is averaging 20.3 points and 12.0 rebounds while Thabeet is averaging just 7.3 points and 3.7 rebounds in his first three.

 

Hall of Famer Walt Frazier, an analyst for MSG, came away very underwhelmed while watching Thabeet earlier in the week.

 

"Thabeet didn't really impress me," Frazier said. "He wasn't very assertive."

 

http://www.probasketballnews.com/story/?storyid=647

[Guest N4S]

They didnt guard each other though.

[OldChili]

They didn't guard each other, but Griffin played much better.

[La Bomba]

Thabeet is looking like the steal of the draft already. And to think we could of gotten Rubio or Evans and have the best young back court in the league. Thabeet can`t even get half decent stats against future D-Leaguers and bench warmers in Russia.

[Carmelamare]

Thabeet should have stayed in college. The NBA is a different animal.

[OldChili]

Thabeet should have stayed in college. The NBA is a different animal.

If he can't average over 8 points playing in the Summer League, then I wonder how poorly he's going to play during the regular season.

[Real Deal]

Blake is just as NBA ready as Tim Duncan when he came out of Wake Forest.

 

Having the privilege of watching Griffin in every single college game, this guy is an offensive monSTAR (no, not the Monstars on Space Jam), and he's a defensive improvement away from being a helluva franchise player for any team he plays for in his career, assuming the Clippers don't ruin him first.

[Multi-Billionaire]

I'm still not sold on Griffin... the NBA lanes won't be as wide open as in college/ summer league games. Wait til he sees a Dampier, Dalembert, Perkins, and Gasol and Bynum camp in the paint.

 

That's when Thabeet can assert himself and when Griffin's weakness is expsosed.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Snake

[AtTheDriveIn]

I'm still not sold on Griffin... the NBA lanes won't be as wide open as in college/ summer league games. Wait til he sees a Dampier, Dalembert, Perkins, and Gasol and Bynum camp in the paint.

 

Defensive 3 second rules makes it tough to 'camp'. Even so, he's quicker and more skilled than all these players anyway. The only guys who will give him major problems are the already established star defensive players like Kevin Garnett or Dwight Howard. Offense is easier to execute than defense without an elite defender and not many teams have an elite post defender, in fact, the two I already mentioned plus Camby and Duncan are the last true remaining elite 'post defenders' (I've probably miss one or two though).

[Multi-Billionaire]

lol cmon man out of all posters, you'd be one of the least I'd expect say Camby is a "true elite post defender". Are you serious?

 

Griffin has been doing this his entire college career:

 

 

 

Melo is explosive but there's just no doing this once you're in the NBA (Btw I bring Melo up because Griffin is essentially Melo without the jump shot). Pau, Bynum and Odom "camped" their way to the title... not saying illegal because they were guarding someone who's close to the paint. Every time Melo tried to do this in the playoffs, there's always Pau, Odom or Bynum in his way... it's not going to be wide open, I'm just saying that, and it might be a big difference to finishing with his usual flourish.

 

His post move still needs a lot of work. He is undersized, he will have major trouble against bigger guys like Perkins/ Dampier who just stand there with their hands up, his jumper is not there (consistent) yet. He is a rookie that I think will not live up to the expectation.

 

 

Real Deal said he'd be the most NBA ready since Tim, but Tim does not rely his game on athleticism like Griffin does and Tim (when he entered the L) already had a 10 year veteran fundamental post moves.

[AtTheDriveIn]

lol cmon man out of all posters, you'd be one of the least I'd expect say Camby is a "true elite post defender". Are you serious?

 

Camby defends the post better than a lot of players. He got some slack a few seasons back when he won his Defensive Player of the Year award, with many coming out saying, "he's only good because he gets lots of blocks on a team that doesn't get that many", but the fact is, he legitimately is a strong post defensive center. He's not on Garnett's or Duncan's 'anchor' level, but he's much better than the foul machines that go by the names Perkins (and yes, I know he has games where he doesn't foul all that much, but he does more often than not) and Dalembert and he's definitely better than Gasol and.. Dampier. Geez, digging deep for names there, weren't you?

 

Melo is explosive but there's just no doing this once you're in the NBA (Btw I bring Melo up because Griffin is essentially Melo without the jump shot).

 

Eh. I don't believe you've watched enough of Griffin.

 

Carmelo is a lot more fluid in his movements, not as strong, not the post player Griffin has been raised to be, a much, much, much, much, much better jumpshooter, has control with the ball, but not the same body control that Griffin possesses. There's plenty of other differences. Personally, I'm not doing a Klashnekoff, or whoever else and saying 'err youre so stupid, you need to watch his game more', but take an hour of two off whenever Griffin plays next, and you'll notice the differences between them games.

 

For some reason, it's seems like the popular thing to do; comparing Carmelo and any other explosive NCAA scorer. Same thing happened with Beasley last season. Beasley is eons closer to being Carmelo than Griffin, and Beasley isn't quite the player Carmelo is either.

 

Pau, Bynum and Odom "camped" their way to the title...

 

- Bynum was hardly effective defensively with the knee brace. From what I recall, he had one good 9/9 game versus the Magic and hardly played the rest of the Finals series.

- Pau did a good job against Dwight Howard, not doubting that; kept him off the boards better than quite a few players I've seen, but his defense isn't even on the 'oh wow, he's a pretty good defender level'

- Odom played 18 feet away guarding Rashard Lewis.

 

He is undersized,

 

He's 6'9 without shoes and 6'10 and a quarter with shoes. Last I checked, players played basketball with shoes on. As a Power Forward, which is his position, he's the right size. His problem isn't height, it's his arms. They're incredibly short, measuring at 6'11. However, that doesn't affect his offensive game, but rather his defensive game.

 

he will have major trouble against bigger guys like Perkins/ Dampier who just stand there with their hands up, his jumper is not there (consistent) yet. He is a rookie that I think will not live up to the expectation.

 

Dampier again.. ouch.

 

 

 

Among casual fans, who've been fed information and hype from the ultimate hype machine, ESPN, expectations may be high, but personally, knowing quite a few guys who are really in-depth with their NBA, the expectations don't seem so high. True, he is expected to be good for at least 18/10, but with how he performs, along with his amazing work-ethic and his maturity which is light years beyond the entire rookie class, it's not so hard to see, is it? He has a willingness to learn, and he'll learn that you can't dunk over everyone, but I am pretty sure that he's smart enough to know that being a one-trick pony doesn't cut it. Guys on my high-school team, guys who could barely pass high-school classes understood this. Having gone to college and excelled as a student as well as an athlete, I'm sure Blake knows what it takes to make it big time. It's not often players come out of college with his level of maturity. As Real Deal said, Tim Duncan may have been the last big man to be this skilled mentally.

[La Bomba]

Thabeet should have stayed in college. The NBA is a different animal.

He was the No. 2 pick and already 23 years old. Next year he wouldn't even be a lottory pick

[Real Deal]

Griffin plays very well with his back to the basket, or facing his opponent up. It doesn't matter. His athleticism is a convenience for him.

 

Dampier will just get boxed out all night by Blake, and he won't be able to stop Griffin when he gets into position near the rim...although, thing is, Dampier probably won't be defending him if Griffin is starting with Kaman.

 

If Griffin improves his post defense, adds to his overall defensive IQ (which will boost his help defense)...he has a shot at being the best power forward in the league.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Camby defends the post better than a lot of players. He got some slack a few seasons back when he won his Defensive Player of the Year award, with many coming out saying, "he's only good because he gets lots of blocks on a team that doesn't get that many", but the fact is, he legitimately is a strong post defensive center. He's not on Garnett's or Duncan's 'anchor' level, but he's much better than the foul machines that go by the names Perkins (and yes, I know he has games where he doesn't foul all that much, but he does more often than not) and Dalembert and he's definitely better than Gasol and.. Dampier. Geez, digging deep for names there, weren't you?

 

lol no he wasn't given the DPOY because "he played on a team that didn't play much D", he won it because he padded his stats. He would let offensive players drive around him to block their shots from the weakside, instead of staying in front of them. Playing this way would increase a shot blocker's chance of more shot blocking, he would probably get 3-4 blocks a game, but he'd also probably surrender 8-10 unnecessary layups/ dunks because he couldn't catch all. It's no coincidence our D improved once Camby left. Don't be fooled by individual numbers, it doesn't have anything to do with the team success in the first place.

 

And since you're so sold on Camby's stats, do you now consider Birdman an elite post defender too? Hey he put virtually the same BPG in much less playing time.

 

Cmon man I'll take Perkins and Dampier all day than Camby when it comes to post defending. Perkins is one of the best post defenders you can find in this L. Comparing Perkins to Camby in post defense is like a solid granite rock vs. a chopstick. You put a strong player with very basic post moves and put him on Camby and he'd probably score on him 8 out of 10 times. The same can't be said about Perkins, who is immovable. It reminds me of Pau Gasol in 2008 Finals who tried to back Perkins to the basket but Perkins just wouldn't move... because he's thick and strong. How can you move a big guy like that? But you have more success to "bully" Camby... because he's weak.

 

 

 

Eh. I don't believe you've watched enough of Griffin.

 

Carmelo is a lot more fluid in his movements, not as strong, not the post player Griffin has been raised to be, a much, much, much, much, much better jumpshooter, has control with the ball, but not the same body control that Griffin possesses. There's plenty of other differences. Personally, I'm not doing a Klashnekoff, or whoever else and saying 'err youre so stupid, you need to watch his game more', but take an hour of two off whenever Griffin plays next, and you'll notice the differences between them games.

 

For some reason, it's seems like the popular thing to do; comparing Carmelo and any other explosive NCAA scorer. Same thing happened with Beasley last season. Beasley is eons closer to being Carmelo than Griffin, and Beasley isn't quite the player Carmelo is either.

 

Carmelo is not strong? Now you're the one who should do more player watching homeboy. If Melo didn't have body control, he wouldn't ever average 28 ppg in a season.

 

 

 

- Bynum was hardly effective defensively with the knee brace. From what I recall, he had one good 9/9 game versus the Magic and hardly played the rest of the Finals series.

- Pau did a good job against Dwight Howard, not doubting that; kept him off the boards better than quite a few players I've seen, but his defense isn't even on the 'oh wow, he's a pretty good defender level'

- Odom played 18 feet away guarding Rashard Lewis.

 

What are you talking about? I was talking about the Nuggets series. And all of them bigs were in the paint with their hands up everytime Melo or a Nugget went inside. Now you're not gonna say I didn't watch enough Nugget games are you lol

 

 

 

He's 6'9 without shoes and 6'10 and a quarter with shoes. Last I checked, players played basketball with shoes on. As a Power Forward, which is his position, he's the right size. His problem isn't height, it's his arms. They're incredibly short, measuring at 6'11. However, that doesn't affect his offensive game, but rather his defensive game.

 

That in my opinion affects his offensive game. If you're relying on athleticism to score, and can't really shoot, then you're going to see a Dahntay Jones. Now I'm not comparing Blake to Jones here, but it's just players who relies on athleticism to score, can't really be a scorer in the L. And Jones averaged like 25+ ppg in summer league last year which is why he landed a roster spot on Nuggets. Jones is pretty skilled, when matched up against college/ summer league guys. But the L is a different story.

 

 

 

 

Dampier again.. ouch.

 

From someone who said Camby is an elite post defender.

 

 

 

Among casual fans, who've been fed information and hype from the ultimate hype machine, ESPN, expectations may be high, but personally, knowing quite a few guys who are really in-depth with their NBA, the expectations don't seem so high. True, he is expected to be good for at least 18/10, but with how he performs, along with his amazing work-ethic and his maturity which is light years beyond the entire rookie class, it's not so hard to see, is it? He has a willingness to learn, and he'll learn that you can't dunk over everyone, but I am pretty sure that he's smart enough to know that being a one-trick pony doesn't cut it. Guys on my high-school team, guys who could barely pass high-school classes understood this. Having gone to college and excelled as a student as well as an athlete, I'm sure Blake knows what it takes to make it big time. It's not often players come out of college with his level of maturity. As Real Deal said, Tim Duncan may have been the last big man to be this skilled mentally.

 

It's good you point out the mental aspect. But so did Joe Smith back in 1995. He was ultra athletic, probably had more post moves than Griffin does, although the latter has more face up games. But Smith was also mentally ready. He averaged like 16 and 9 in his rookie season, which is not bad, but after his second year, he kept getting worse. I'm not saying Griffin will be a Olowokandi bust, but Joe Smith bust.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Snake

[Multi-Billionaire]

Griffin plays very well with his back to the basket, or facing his opponent up. It doesn't matter. His athleticism is a convenience for him.

 

Dampier will just get boxed out all night by Blake, and he won't be able to stop Griffin when he gets into position near the rim...although, thing is, Dampier probably won't be defending him if Griffin is starting with Kaman.

 

If Griffin improves his post defense, adds to his overall defensive IQ (which will boost his help defense)...he has a shot at being the best power forward in the league.

 

I wouldn't bank on a player who has very raw post moves to have a chance at being the best PF anytime soon. In games where it matters most, all those lanes for college and summer league dunks will completely close and if he doesn't have a post game to turn to, he's not going to take them much further. A post game is what makes a PF valuable, it makes them effective (Duncan/ Gasol) and when you are effective, you win more likely than when you're not. And when you don't bring enough wins, you don't deserve to be called the best at your position. At least not yet.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Snake

[Legacy]

Thabeet will be a bust.

[Multi-Billionaire]

What I don't like about Thabeet is his mental. I think his game is just ready now but mentally he might not be ready. But if Nuggets had had a 2nd pick and we had picked him, I would be pretty happy.

[AtTheDriveIn]

lol no he wasn't given the DPOY because "he played on a team that didn't play much D", he won it because he padded his stats. He would let offensive players drive around him to block their shots from the weakside, instead of staying in front of them. Playing this way would increase a shot blocker's chance of more shot blocking, he would probably get 3-4 blocks a game, but he'd also probably surrender 8-10 unnecessary layups/ dunks because he couldn't catch all. It's no coincidence our D improved once Camby left. Don't be fooled by individual numbers, it doesn't have anything to do with the team success in the first place.

 

Cmon man I'll take Perkins and Dampier all day than Camby when it comes to post defending. Perkins is one of the best post defenders you can find in this L. Comparing Perkins to Camby in post defense is like a solid granite rock vs. a chopstick. You put a strong player with very basic post moves and put him on Camby and he'd probably score on him 8 out of 10 times. The same can't be said about Perkins, who is immovable. It reminds me of Pau Gasol in 2008 Finals who tried to back Perkins to the basket but Perkins just wouldn't move... because he's thick and strong. How can you move a big guy like that? But you have more success to "bully" Camby... because he's weak.

 

What stats?

 

Who brought up stats?

 

Where are these stats I referred to?

 

The argument you just gave was the argument that everyone gave. It's not easy to 'just get blocks' or 'just get rebounds' for the fun of it. It takes effort and hustle. Defense doesn't come as easy to any player as offense does. As I said before, and pay attention to this because you missed it last time, He is not on the level of Garnett and Duncan, but certainly above Kendrick 'I can't stay in the game for more then 4 minutes at a time because coach says I foul too much' Perkins and Sam 'I just foul.. alot' Dalembert and here's some stats to prove it:

 

Per48 minutes,

 

Kendrick Perkins allows 17.8 points per game against him at 49% shooting

Samual Dalembert allows 17.0 points per game against him at 50% shooting

Marcus Camby allows 16.0 points per game against him at 49% shooting

 

in comparison

 

Tim Duncan allows 17.0 points per game on 46% shooting

 

To add to that, the players Camby defend foul more, turn the ball over more, and go to the free throw line less. This was last season, where he wasn't healthy from the beginning to the end of the season as well.

 

 

Furthermore, it doesn't all come down to 'just standing there with your hands up'. Try it at your next basketball game and see how far it gets you. Or, maybe I should ask some wide bodied 350lbs. player who hasn't been off his couch in ten years, let alone played basketball to stand in my paint for the team that I coach and see how far I'm able to take the team. At any level 'just stand there' isn't enough. Perkins and Dalembert, though I am arguing against them being elite defenders do more than just 'stand there'. That's just stupid.

 

 

Also, Camby leaving was the reason you guys got better on defense? LOL. I think everybody knows it had something to do with the commitment to that area that Billups brought in when Iverson left.

 

Carmelo is not strong? Now you're the one who should do more player watching homeboy. If Melo didn't have body control, he wouldn't ever average 28 ppg in a season.

 

Not AS strong. Geez, somebody needs to go back to 'reading comprehension 101' and learn that you can't skip words in the middle of sentences because you're just going to look like a fool afterwards.

 

That in my opinion affects his offensive game. If you're relying on athleticism to score, and can't really shoot, then you're going to see a Dahntay Jones. Now I'm not comparing Blake to Jones here, but it's just players who relies on athleticism to score, can't really be a scorer in the L. And Jones averaged like 25+ ppg in summer league last year which is why he landed a roster spot on Nuggets. Jones is pretty skilled, when matched up against college/ summer league guys. But the L is a different story.

 

Griffin doesn't just rely on athleticism though. Has someone been watching ESPN highlights a little too much? Watch a game.

 

From someone who said Camby is an elite post defender.

 

Meh. Each to their own.

 

It's good you point out the mental aspect. But so did Joe Smith back in 1995. He was ultra athletic, probably had more post moves than Griffin does, although the latter has more face up games. But Smith was also mentally ready. He averaged like 16 and 9 in his rookie season, which is not bad, but after his second year, he kept getting worse. I'm not saying Griffin will be a Olowokandi bust, but Joe Smith bust.

 

Well first off, no, Joe Smith did not 'probably have more post moves'. He was the exact player Griffin was, and he averaged exactly what many think Griffin will at the same age (18 and 9, his second season). Then, he got moved to Philadelphia where Iverson assumed the role of 'scorer plus anything else I wanna be' and he regressed. Then severly sprained his ankle and missed half a season, and never came back the same. He's still fluid; still moves well, but he was never the same player that came out of college after his first two seasons. If Joe Smith's early years were a bust, then in this draft, I'd take a chance on that kind of bust.

[Multi-Billionaire]

What stats?

 

Who brought up stats?

 

Where are these stats I referred to?

 

The argument you just gave was the argument that everyone gave. It's not easy to 'just get blocks' or 'just get rebounds' for the fun of it. It takes effort and hustle. Defense doesn't come as easy to any player as offense does. As I said before, and pay attention to this because you missed it last time, He is not on the level of Garnett and Duncan, but certainly above Kendrick 'I can't stay in the game for more then 4 minutes at a time because coach says I foul too much' Perkins and Sam 'I just foul.. alot' Dalembert and here's some stats to prove it:

 

Per48 minutes,

 

Kendrick Perkins allows 17.8 points per game against him at 49% shooting

Samual Dalembert allows 17.0 points per game against him at 50% shooting

Marcus Camby allows 16.0 points per game against him at 49% shooting

 

in comparison

 

Tim Duncan allows 17.0 points per game on 46% shooting

 

To add to that, the players Camby defend foul more, turn the ball over more, and go to the free throw line less. This was last season, where he wasn't healthy from the beginning to the end of the season as well.

 

 

Furthermore, it doesn't all come down to 'just standing there with your hands up'. Try it at your next basketball game and see how far it gets you. Or, maybe I should ask some wide bodied 350lbs. player who hasn't been off his couch in ten years, let alone played basketball to stand in my paint for the team that I coach and see how far I'm able to take the team. At any level 'just stand there' isn't enough. Perkins and Dalembert, though I am arguing against them being elite defenders do more than just 'stand there'. That's just stupid.

 

 

Also, Camby leaving was the reason you guys got better on defense? LOL. I think everybody knows it had something to do with the commitment to that area that Billups brought in when Iverson left.

 

 

The argument I gave was what "everyone gave"? How about the argument that I came up with after enduring Camby on Nuggets for 5 years and speaking from a fan's perspective?

 

I don't know where you get those numbers, but provide with link where you get them. I don't believe them until I see them. Camby is one of the poorest one-on-one defenders you can have in this L. He is a great weak side shot blocker and he has a great timing. But already said before, any shot blocker with great timing can average Camby's numbers any day. The Birdman averaged 2.5 bpg in only 20 mpg, in comparison Camby averaged 2.1 bpg in 30 mpg. Bird's an excellent example of a shot blocker who does the defense from strictly the weakside, not one-on-one. Gasol repeatedly abused Birdman on the post at will with variety of moves, and Odom had his share too on the Bird. But although he plays eerily similar defense to Camby, I don't hate the Birdman because unlike Camby he plays with energy and is much more willing to defend the post and play positional defense. And this compensates his lack/ inadequacy of one-on-one defense.

 

By you saying Camby is a better post defender than Perkins, it says a lot about your knowlegde of defense. By looking at stats and the player with more BPG is a better defender than the other who averages less BPG. You have a much better chance of protecting the rim playing positional defense like Perkins, simply by being there and clogging the paint makes it tough for scorers, than playing Camby defense. Of course putting up your arms helps and this also avoids unnecessary fouls. Just because you're not after the ball like Camby, does not mean you do not change the shot if you're big and put your hands up like Perkins.

 

Sure I agree with you, shot blocking like Camby requires skill and effort but because you're playing harder does not mean you're playing smarter... and by you having the skill to be a shot blocker does not mean you are playing it the right way... and to play proper defense, you have to grasp the concept of playing it the right way. And this is what Camby has throughout his career refused to accept... because he knows if he plays proper defense he won't be able to prowl from weakside anymore and would not therefore collect his precious blocked shots. The Birdman on the other hand is aware his lack of ability to play proper defense can only be compensated with him hustling and giving energy 100% every time. He closes out on defenders with energy and sense of urgency.

 

Defense is not quantified by how many blocks per game or steals per game, but how proper you play positional defense, staying in front of your man, moving your feet, etc. This is why Bruce Bowen was among the elite although he never averaged more than 1.4 spg and 0.6 bpg in his career. And Bruce rarely jumps to block shots, what does he do? Getting as close as he can to his man with his hand(s) up... again, just because you do not attempt to block it does not mean you do not change the shot. This is a concept where many players fail to grasp... they think to play defense they have to jump and try to block shots. Forget it because when you guard, especially an above average offensive player, chances are you wouldn't block his shot. If you're so on trying to block a shot, chances are he's going to pump fake you and drive to the rim. This is why many people think defense is harder to learn than offense, while it should be the other way around.

 

 

I don't see how you can consider Camby an elite post defender without being a fanboy of his bpg stat, because that's how he's been deceiving eyes for throughout his career.

 

lol you never had to endure having Camby on your team... so you never knew how he can hurt you defensively. All I can say is be grateful he's never on the Magic.

 

 

 

Not AS strong. Geez, somebody needs to go back to 'reading comprehension 101' and learn that you can't skip words in the middle of sentences because you're just going to look like a fool afterwards.

 

Griffin is strong, but I doubt the college boy is stronger than Melo who has been a pro for 6 years with one of the best athletic trainer in the L harping on him to be on the gym and the diet. Griffin eventually can be as strong after many seasons in the L, but right now Melo can lay his [expletive] on the floor.

 

 

 

 

Griffin doesn't just rely on athleticism though. Has someone been watching ESPN highlights a little too much? Watch a game.

 

I've watched his games my opinion does not change. He thrives on it, and when that's taken away, he's going to have to adjust. It's going to be a rough road for him.

 

 

 

 

Meh. Each to their own.

 

Did you really say Camby is an elite post defender? I'll make a poll and ask from OTR members and ask who is the better post defender: Marcus Camby whom you say an elite one at that, or Kendrick Perkins.

 

 

 

Well first off, no, Joe Smith did not 'probably have more post moves'. He was the exact player Griffin was, and he averaged exactly what many think Griffin will at the same age (18 and 9, his second season). Then, he got moved to Philadelphia where Iverson assumed the role of 'scorer plus anything else I wanna be' and he regressed. Then severly sprained his ankle and missed half a season, and never came back the same. He's still fluid; still moves well, but he was never the same player that came out of college after his first two seasons. If Joe Smith's early years were a bust, then in this draft, I'd take a chance on that kind of bust.

 

I doubt you use a #1 overall pick so you can get a 16 and 9 player for two seasons and then he can disappear. In comparison, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, Yao Ming, LeBron James, Dwight, all have been at one point in their career the face of their respective franchises. Did you really imply Joe Smith wasn't a bust?

Edited July 20, 2009 by Snake

[magicbalala245]

Hopefully Griffin doesn't end up in this Sig

 

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e8/aj245/lacshameful.jpg

[Multi-Billionaire]

Clips really need to change the logo, the jersey, because most often it works to turn around teams (Nets, Nuggets, Cavs, Mavs).

[Real Deal]

Griffin isn't that bad of a post player. His jumper might be the worst part of his game, actually. Same was said with Karl Malone, and most of us watched Malone turn into arguably the greatest power forward ever.

 

In fact, Blake's post moves have improved since going to college, compared to his high school play...and he's also not afraid to be physical near the rim, which puts him at the line quite a bit.

 

You can bet on it that his post play will improve just by all the work he's putting in, and will continue to put in, because that's also one of Griffin's best assets: his work ethic and determination.

 

Griffin will not be another Olowokandi. No chance of that happening.

[moeroadkill]

is this really a surprise?

i got a feeling griffin will get a serious injury this coming season..

[AtTheDriveIn]

The argument I gave was what "everyone gave"? How about the argument that I came up with after enduring Camby on Nuggets for 5 years and speaking from a fan's perspective?

 

Thus your opinion means so much more. Hey everyone, don't argue about any Nuggets player, ever.. Snake just knows more than you do. By the way 'speaking from a fan's perspective' is just a coded little sentence for 'I'm a homer, but I'm going to play it like I'm not and just call myself a fan'. Eh.

 

I don't know where you get those numbers, but provide with link where you get them. I don't believe them until I see them.

 

82games.com; figure your way around the site.

 

Camby is one of the poorest one-on-one defenders you can have in this L.

 

Eh, okay.

 

By you saying Camby is a better post defender than Perkins, it says a lot about your knowlegde of defense. By looking at stats and the player with more BPG is a better defender than the other who averages less BPG.

 

Jesus [expletive]ing Christ, stop putting words in my mouth. Please show me where I've been saying 'the better defender is the guy with more blocks', furthermore, please, keep digging into my brain and pulling all this bull[expletive] out like you know a thing or two about what I'm thinking. [expletive] me, do you even read anything anyone says? Or do you just like listening to the tapping of your own keyboard?

 

Sure I agree with you, shot blocking like Camby requires skill and effort but because you're playing harder does not mean you're playing smarter...

 

Lol. I never even said this.

 

Defense is not quantified by how many blocks per game or steals per game, but how proper you play positional defense, staying in front of your man, moving your feet, etc. This is why Bruce Bowen was among the elite although he never averaged more than 1.4 spg and 0.6 bpg in his career. And Bruce rarely jumps to block shots, what does he do? Getting as close as he can to his man with his hand(s) up... again, just because you do not attempt to block it does not mean you do not change the shot. This is a concept where many players fail to grasp... they think to play defense they have to jump and try to block shots. Forget it because when you guard, especially an above average offensive player, chances are you wouldn't block his shot. If you're so on trying to block a shot, chances are he's going to pump fake you and drive to the rim. This is why many people think defense is harder to learn than offense, while it should be the other way around.

 

zzzz.. oh putting words in my mouth again. What a surprise.

 

Griffin is strong, but I doubt the college boy is stronger than Melo who has been a pro for 6 years with one of the best athletic trainer in the L harping on him to be on the gym and the diet. Griffin eventually can be as strong after many seasons in the L, but right now Melo can lay his [expletive] on the floor.

 

Because he's more experienced, it means he's stronger. Right, okay. Think about that and how stupid it sounds.

 

I've watched his games my opinion does not change. He thrives on it, and when that's taken away, he's going to have to adjust. It's going to be a rough road for him.

 

Lol. [expletive] off you have. You watched the highlights and pretended like you knew something.

 

 

 

I'm bored of arguing. You just think you know more because 'you've seen him play therefore know everything' even though being from Australia, you have limited access to their games anyway, unless you miss every day of school to watch it online, which I doubt you do, and if you did, then why am I talking to a person without an education in common sense and every day life? So I'll let you 'win' this because you're basically just looking for an argument for the sake of it and not because you actually want to voice your opinion.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Thus your opinion means so much more. Hey everyone, don't argue about any Nuggets player, ever.. Snake just knows more than you do. By the way 'speaking from a fan's perspective' is just a coded little sentence for 'I'm a homer, but I'm going to play it like I'm not and just call myself a fan'. Eh.

 

It just shows I have watched the players more than a fan of other teams. When I see legit arguments I would not say they're wrong if they're right, vice versa. Your opinion of Camby is just... wrong.

 

 

 

82games.com; figure your way around the site.

 

Doesn't mean anything if you can't show your stats.

 

 

Eh, okay.

 

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1705-better-post-defender-marcus-camby-or-kendrick-perkins/#entry19204

 

 

Not many people have voted, but all the 5 people who have posted, say it's Perkins, and it's not even close. You can make your post in there too about Camby, be different than others.

 

 

Jesus [expletive]ing Christ, stop putting words in my mouth. Please show me where I've been saying 'the better defender is the guy with more blocks', furthermore, please, keep digging into my brain and pulling all this bull[expletive] out like you know a thing or two about what I'm thinking. [expletive] me, do you even read anything anyone says? Or do you just like listening to the tapping of your own keyboard?

 

Then what else besides BPG that makes you say Camby is a better post defender than Perkins? The 82games.com? No proof because there's no link.

 

 

Lol. I never even said this.

 

Denial...

 

It's not easy to 'just get blocks' or 'just get rebounds' for the fun of it. It takes effort and hustle.

 

 

 

 

zzzz.. oh putting words in my mouth again. What a surprise.

 

Is that the best you can come up with?

 

 

 

Because he's more experienced, it means he's stronger. Right, okay. Think about that and how stupid it sounds.

 

Who's putting words in someone's mouth? I didn't say because Melo is more experienced he's stronger. I said he's been a pro going through 6 seasons of pro conditioning and fitness designed a professional sports program. He's bound to be more fit and stronger than some college kids who're about the same frame. I never said he's stronger because he has "more experience", you're delusional.

 

 

 

 

Lol. [expletive] off you have. You watched the highlights and pretended like you knew something.

 

Who's acting like he knows the other person and knows what he's thinking? Your denial, self contradictory .

 

 

 

 

I'm bored of arguing. You just think you know more because 'you've seen him play therefore know everything' even though being from Australia, you have limited access to their games anyway, unless you miss every day of school to watch it online, which I doubt you do, and if you did, then why am I talking to a person without an education in common sense and every day life? So I'll let you 'win' this because you're basically just looking for an argument for the sake of it and not because you actually want to voice your opinion.

 

Yeah right you live in US and makes you a more knowledgable poster than me? Someone who said Camby is an elite post defender is actually a laughing stock in Australia... and then using Perkins and say Camby is a better post defender merits public stoning in Australia...

 

 

Okay not that bad but cmon man. Are you shying away because you just read your "Idiot's Guide to Post Defense in NBA aka the Anti Marcus Camby" book? Or was it because the comparison thread? It's going to be popular if you keep posting without bringing your A game.