Lawrence Frank: Broken Down

[Guru]

http://netsarescorching.com/2009/07/14/netsarescorching-posts-revisited-lawrence-frank-broken-down/

 

Pro:

 

He’s a motivator: He always seems to get the most out of his players, and he has done pretty well without a lot of weapons. Look at this year for example, we were predicted to be a 15-20 win team, but we ended up winning 34. Now there are a lot of factors at play when looking at this (maybe nobody thought our rookies were any good - there was a whole lot of turnover from the previous year and many “predictors” thought we wouldn’t mesh too well), but Lawrence Frank has to be given some credit for this. He got a lot out of players like Jarvis Hayes, Keyon Dooling, and Bobby Simmons. Vince Carter seems to go out all for him, and it has been a while since Vince has pulled a “Vince” and sat out with a soft injury. He also got Devin Harris playing the best ball of his pro career, though some say he did that despite the team (we will get to that in the cons). This isn’t just about this year, Lawrence Frank’s teams always seem to over-achieve. To be able to say that you are a .500 (225-225) coach when you coach teams that have players like Jason Collins, Eric Williams, Clifford Robinson, and Mikki Moore IN YOUR STARTING LINEUP for over 5+ years…that right there is the definition of overachieving.

 

Cons:

 

Switches Offense Too Often: I am not talking about switching offenses in games, but I am talking about year-to-year. In his 5+ years, Lawrence Frank has implemented a whole new offense scheme three different times. When he first became the head coach, he started with with some sort of Princeton style offense (don’t even get me started on this. That kind of offense would never work in the pros, defenses are too athletic). A little later down the line (I don’t remember how long exactly) he switched to something else, I am not quite sure what offense it was, but i was some sort of motion style offense. This year, he switched the the dribble drive offense revolving around Devin Harris.

 

Some may say that having a coach play to his players strengths is a good thing, and his switching of offenses is an example of that. I completely disagree with that type of reasoning. Let’s look at the top coaches in the league:

 

* Phil Jackson - Triangle Offense

* Jerry Sloan - Pick & Roll

* Mike D’Antoni - Run Up & Down most of the time

* Donnie Nelson - Run ALL THE TIME

 

All of these coaches have their offense and stick to it. They build the team around the offense (An example is how the Jazz got Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer to replace John Stocken and Karl Malone). Another thing that you notice with all of these coaches (besides Jerry Sloan) is that they have moved to different places and their styles have been successful. That means you can bring a system to a group of players and implement it.

 

A disadvantage of what Lawrence Frank is doing (building you system around star players) is that if a key player gets injured you are pretty much screwed. Let’s look at this year for an example, imagine if Devin Harris got hurt and missed a significant chunk of the season. Who is going to run the dribble-drive? Keyon Dooling is a great backup, and he can play the point, but he would be terrible in the dribble-drive system. The Nets would be scrambling, inserting new plays, and looking for free agents that would fit the plays. It would be mayhem. Now if there is a roster built around a system and a star gets hurt, there is a backup who fills the role pretty well, knows what he is doing, and knows what is expected of him(not as good as the starter obviously). I hope that makes sense.

 

Roster Management: What I am talking about when I mention roster management, I am talking about how Lawrence Frank hands out playing time. When looking at this problem, three different situations come up. One, he sticks with the hot-hand way too much, as if he is afraid to make a move. Two, he seems to forget about certain players at times. And three, he just makes some bizarre moves in certain situations. I have an example of each one of these situations:

 

* Situation 1 - Yi. Lawrence Frank stuck with Yi waaaay too long this year. He was pretty good up until the pinkie injury. After the injury though, Lawrence Frank put him in too soon, and played him too much. I have broken my pinkie on my shooting hand during a basketball season. It is honestly the worst, even after I was cleared to play, my shot wasn’t right for like a year. When Yi came back and started struggling, Coach Frank should have pulled Yi, and let him sit and rest the finger. Instead he kept playing him, let the team (and Yi individually) struggle, and now Yi’s confidence is DESTROYED. Plus once he made the move, he found out Ryan Anderson wasn’t half bad. If he would have made the switch sooner, I think we could have mustered a few more wins this year, and in the East, that could have meant the playoffs.

* Situation 2 - Bobby Simmons. Bobby Simmons was pretty solid in the beginning of the season, but his minutes dropped every month of the season. Now I know he was hurt a couple times this year, but there are games that stick out in my mind where we needed offense, situations where Bobby Simmons would thrive, and he just didn’t get the minutes.

* Situation 3 - Brookie Night. (Full disclosure, I didn’t watch this game, but I did thoroughly go through the play-by-play for this post) We all know about Brookie night. T-shirts were handed out and it was Brook’s big night to market him as a rookie of the year candidate. Brook comes out, and it is obvious he is amped up for this. In the first quarter Brook goes for 6 points, 7 rebounds, and 1 block (against Dwight Howard). He gets pulled with 1:59 left in the first with one foul. He doesn’t get put back in the game until the start of the second half. This is Brookie night, he’s not in any sort of foul trouble, and he’s playing fantastic. You are going to take him out of the game? You have to be kidding me. I know we are out of the playoffs, and he probably wants to see Boone play, but you can’t wait until the second half, after most of the fans leave? It is a weird move to make, and it has to have disappointed Brook, him being a young guy and all. These are the kind of moves that get your “voice” lost with the players. This personally bothered me a lot (you can probably tell with how much I am writing about it) when I read and heard about it. Brook Lopez was a real big bright spot for us, and it just seems Lawrence Frank kind of just messed up his night.

 

This was an excellent read. Highly recommended, click the link and read it.

[OldChili]

Great read, and I totally agree with the fact that he has horrible rotations (roster management).

[Universe]

Gonna read the full thing later but agree on Brook. He was the best option on offense most of the time rather than a fade away or Harris being triple teamed in the post yet we never let him go one on one. That pissed me off.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Donnie Nelson - Run ALL THE TIME

 

[Klashnekoff]

I read that linked article, gives more depth with videos and yes i agree with most of that.

 

I have been saying it for a while, maybe older posters like Waldo or Universe may recall me saying that i hate it when Frank takes out our players when they are hot.. it seriously drives me crazy .. I like Frank as a coach and i think we should keep him as long as we can because he is a great developer of players and as stated motivator which is huge to have as a coach in your arsenal ..

 

However he makes bad decisions late in games, in terms of player rotations and in terms of plays (offense generally) .. i guess this will all come with the development of players, keeping our roster the same for the next 2-3 years (other then our star FA signing) so that our players can mesh together..

 

In terms of the offensive mistakes he makes, well i guess you could say he is more of a defensive coach, the article had Phil Jackson, Mike D'Antoni and Don Nelson who all are known for the best offensive plays and offensive schemes created around the league, i don't think it is fair to have them compared up to a far younger coach who has by far a worse team to work with, i mean to almost make the playoffs with your top scorer being a 33 something year old is crazy and having him average that season 22 ppg is great. I mean look at Ray Allen, do you think he could have done what VC done last season? .. Yes, under Frank i think he could but under your average coach other then those top 3 big names i don't think so.

 

I mean you can't argue that Frank is more of a offensive coach then defensive minded coach, his teams may not portray that but he is actually more defensive approached to his line-ups. However he is a great coach that we just need to be patient with at times, i know it sounds hypocritical of me as i once said i hated him but it's just not logical to bring in another coach to develop our rookies as we already have Frank doing such a good job.

[Erick Blasco]

I disagree with a lot of the writer's observations.

 

First of all, I think the Nets Veterans' have underachieved for years under him. RJ, Kidd, and Carter played worse for Frank than they did previously. I think Frank is an excellent teacher (which is why his young players play well for him), but isn't much of a motivator. That isn't a major problem. In the NBA, your veterans need to be able to motivate themselves, but it is a mark against him.

 

Also, the Nets have basically only run two offenses. They ran a modified Princeton (with a lot of basic isolations and screen/rolls) for a few years, and then this year they switched to a spread dribble-drive offense. A lot of wing isolations, drives-and-kicks, and high pick-and-rolls with only one man inside.

 

The Princeton kind of worked because the Nets weren't an overly athletic team but had smart players. With the Nets becoming more athletic under Harris and with the spread getting so much attention after Memphis' run to the Final Four, the switch was made and it seemed to work.

 

Frank was sort of obligated to stick to Yi because he was the prime piece of the Richard Jefferson trade, and he's a young player the Nets have high hopes for the future. Obviously Yi is a bust, but the Nets have to see if they can get Yi to play angrier than the timid softie he is.

 

If you asked nine people their opinions on Bobby Simmons, you'd get nine different answers. Some people were mad he got any minutes, this guy wants Simmons to get more minutes.

 

And with situation 3, Frank is trying to win games. He can't sabotage his rotation. If Lopez gets too tired, he's wasted for the second half and that affects everything the Nets want to accomplish.

 

With late game isolations, everybody runs them. You trust your best player will be better than the other team's best defender. Some of it is bad coaching, some of it is Carter's inability to handle intense pressure (except against the Raptors apparantly), but that's not a major deal.

[OldChili]

Some of it is bad coaching, some of it is Carter's inability to handle intense pressure (except against the Raptors apparantly), but that's not a major deal.

Carter has made two more game winning shots than Kobe Bryant the last few years with five less attempts.

[Guru]

the Nets Veterans' have underachieved for years under him. RJ, Kidd, and Carter played worse for Frank than they did previously.

That is not true at all.

Frank started coaching in 2003-2004.

RJ's Stats:

http://www.backstagegfx.com/forum/uploads/U141-1248146731.png

 

VC's Stats:

http://www.backstagegfx.com/forum/uploads/U141-1248146767.png

 

Kidd's Stats: (Coming of arguably the best season of his career)

http://www.backstagegfx.com/forum/uploads/U141-1248146775.png

 

I do agree with your other points though.

[Klashnekoff]

I disagree with a lot of the writer's observations.

 

First of all, I think the Nets Veterans' have underachieved for years under him. RJ, Kidd, and Carter played worse for Frank than they did previously. I think Frank is an excellent teacher (which is why his young players play well for him), but isn't much of a motivator. That isn't a major problem. In the NBA, your veterans need to be able to motivate themselves, but it is a mark against him.

 

Also, the Nets have basically only run two offenses. They ran a modified Princeton (with a lot of basic isolations and screen/rolls) for a few years, and then this year they switched to a spread dribble-drive offense. A lot of wing isolations, drives-and-kicks, and high pick-and-rolls with only one man inside.

 

The Princeton kind of worked because the Nets weren't an overly athletic team but had smart players. With the Nets becoming more athletic under Harris and with the spread getting so much attention after Memphis' run to the Final Four, the switch was made and it seemed to work.

 

Frank was sort of obligated to stick to Yi because he was the prime piece of the Richard Jefferson trade, and he's a young player the Nets have high hopes for the future. Obviously Yi is a bust, but the Nets have to see if they can get Yi to play angrier than the timid softie he is.

 

If you asked nine people their opinions on Bobby Simmons, you'd get nine different answers. Some people were mad he got any minutes, this guy wants Simmons to get more minutes.

 

And with situation 3, Frank is trying to win games. He can't sabotage his rotation. If Lopez gets too tired, he's wasted for the second half and that affects everything the Nets want to accomplish.

 

With late game isolations, everybody runs them. You trust your best player will be better than the other team's best defender. Some of it is bad coaching, some of it is Carter's inability to handle intense pressure (except against the Raptors apparantly), but that's not a major deal.

 

No way!

 

Kidd has had his best seasons in New Jersey, New Jersey made him the superstar point guard he is today. Also RJ really hasn't known anything other then New Jersey and has without a doubt had his best seasons in New Jersey, Frank could be considered what made RJ a capable scorer, he set up plays for him that worked well for him. Carter is Carter and obviously had better seasons in his younger times as he only came to Jersey when he was like 28 i think .. he was somewhat heading out of his prime as he hit his prime rather early ..

 

Everything else i kinda agree with you on but to say that RJ, Kidd and VC underachieved during their stay in New Jersey is incorrect.. they have had their best times with Jersey.

[Guru]

No way!

 

Kidd has had his best seasons in New Jersey, New Jersey made him the superstar point guard he is today. Also RJ really hasn't known anything other then New Jersey and has without a doubt had his best seasons in New Jersey, Frank could be considered what made RJ a capable scorer, he set up plays for him that worked well for him. Carter is Carter and obviously had better seasons in his younger times as he only came to Jersey when he was like 28 i think .. he was somewhat heading out of his prime as he hit his prime rather early ..

 

Everything else i kinda agree with you on but to say that RJ, Kidd and VC underachieved during their stay in New Jersey is incorrect.. they have had their best times with Jersey.

Kidd had his best years for Byron Scott not Lawrence Frank.

[Erick Blasco]

That is not true at all.

Frank started coaching in 2003-2004.

RJ's Stats:

http://www.backstagegfx.com/forum/uploads/U141-1248146731.png

 

VC's Stats:

http://www.backstagegfx.com/forum/uploads/U141-1248146767.png

 

Kidd's Stats: (Coming of arguably the best season of his career)

http://www.backstagegfx.com/forum/uploads/U141-1248146775.png

 

I do agree with your other points though.

 

When I talk about the big three, I look at Kidd with Scott coaching him and Carter in Toronto. I'd like to think each of them played better before Frank than during Frank, especially as each player didn't really play his best towards the end of his run with Frank. Carter's played more passively the past two years than previously, and Kidd too seemed to lose some of his spark (though some of that is also age).

 

Jefferson's harder to lump in because he played really well before Frank, with Frank, and after Frank.

[Erick Blasco]

Carter has made two more game winning shots than Kobe Bryant the last few years with five less attempts.

 

And they're each shooting under 31% in those situations. Look at Hedo Turkoglu with that beautiful 50% shooting percentage with the game on the line.

[Klashnekoff]

Kidd had his best years for Byron Scott not Lawrence Frank.

 

Your talking about a point guard though, he is the coach on the floor. Kidds play doesn't determine the coaches influences because of his roles under both Scott and Frank, he played good under both.

 

You need to look at guys like VC and RJ and compare them from previous situations to Frank as they would be used in Franks offensive schemes more then Kidd, Kidd facilitates while the real production of the coaching is in the wing players; RJ and VC.

[Guru]

Your talking about a point guard though, he is the coach on the floor. Kidds play doesn't determine the coaches influences because of his roles under both Scott and Frank, he played good under both.

 

You need to look at guys like VC and RJ and compare them from previous situations to Frank as they would be used in Franks offensive schemes more then Kidd, Kidd facilitates while the real production of the coaching is in the wing players; RJ and VC.

RJ was a young rookie and VC wasn't in NJ. You can't compare Byron Scott and Lawrence Frank, Scott is clearly the better coach.

[Universe]

RJ was a young rookie and VC wasn't in NJ. You can't compare Byron Scott and Lawrence Frank, Scott is clearly the better coach.

Scott is lazy as hell while Frank works his [expletive] off. You can see it now in New Orleans how overrated Scott was and is.

[bravenewworld]

Let’s look at the top coaches in the league:

 

* Phil Jackson - Triangle Offense

* Jerry Sloan - Pick & Roll

* Mike D’Antoni - Run Up & Down most of the time

* Donnie Nelson - Run ALL THE TIME

 

I can now stop reading this article since Nelson is mentioned as a "top offensive coach" and pop is not.

Edited July 22, 2009 by bravenewworld

[OldChili]

And they're each shooting under 31% in those situations. Look at Hedo Turkoglu with that beautiful 50% shooting percentage with the game on the line.

There's a lot of factors that contribute to that. For one, take into account the teams that Carter has played on and his supporting cast. He's the obvious choice with the game on the line, and he faces much more defensive pressure than Hedo. Hedo has a bunch of players he can pass to with the game on the line, while Carter has had the likes of Voshon Lenard.

 

And don't forget to factor in free throws. Hedo - 66%. Carter - 91%.

[Guru]

Scott is lazy as hell while Frank works his [expletive] off. You can see it now in New Orleans how overrated Scott was and is.

I think he has become lazy in recent years. But I'm biased because he took us to two NBA finals lol.

[Klashnekoff]

There's a lot of factors that contribute to that. For one, take into account the teams that Carter has played on and his supporting cast. He's the obvious choice with the game on the line, and he faces much more defensive pressure than Hedo. Hedo has a bunch of players he can pass to with the game on the line, while Carter has had the likes of Voshon Lenard.

 

And don't forget to factor in free throws. Hedo - 66%. Carter - 91%.

 

Nice, i just looked that up and was bout to post bout the free-throws .. yeah Carter > Hedo ..

 

I think he has become lazy in recent years. But I'm biased because he took us to two NBA finals lol.

 

Yes you are being biased, Scott had Kidd in his better years and now compare him to his point guard now with Paul, he is overrated.

[Universe]

I think he has become lazy in recent years. But I'm biased because he took us to two NBA finals lol.

Yeah I respected him for that too but it was mostly Kidd coaching on the run with that team and when it stopped working, he was fired. That's the trouble Frank had as Kidd really didn't want to be told what to do as we witnessed this year in Dallas when they let Jason "run" the offense.