JR Smith, the next Kobe Bryant?

[Multi-Billionaire]

^Then you have completely forgotten about the WCF 2 years ago... I understand. I still have all 6 of those WCF games I can watch again later today. I still remember in Game 4 we won, J.R. had about 3-4 assists by driving and dishing a no look to Nene, KMart and Melo.

 

Your statement that he "doesn't pass like a PG" proves you have little knowledge of J.R.'s game. Name me a SG who can pass better than him AFTER you watch the videos below:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEPwMke2sA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihGaSG4br_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhejxYfHal0

 

 

 

The no-look, the pick and roll pass, the alley oop, the drive to draw defenders and dish, these are PG instincts... he makes them looks so easy too... that's the key. Like I said you have little knowledge of J.R.'s game.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

That's great, he's a playground passer. I can do all of that tonight when I go play ball.

 

You have all of the answers, so you should be coaching the Nuggets and JR Smith. I mean, George Karl knows nothing, along with all other coaches in the league other than Phil Jackson, the only one that knows how to tap into mega-star potential that has yet to be shown from a average-IQ bench player with a bad attitude and an incomplete game.

 

Name a two-guard who can pass better? LOL...I can name plenty.

[Multi-Billionaire]

This:

 

 

reminds me of:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_ikaIDz-Ck

 

 

The way they (J.R./ Kobe) lobbed the ball, the dunk (by KMart/ Shaq) to finish the teams (Mavs/ Blazers) in playoffs.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Snake

[Multi-Billionaire]

You just don't wanna give where credits are due... like I said I'm no defending J.R. blindly just because he's a Nugget... I'm not tied to any player I'm a team fan first and foremost. I have no biased feeling here... but you gotta give where the credits are due. Dude can pass. The fluidity of his passes is no fluke... he can really pass. When you're trusted with the ball ahead of true PGs (Billups) at the end of a playoffs game, and the coach is no dummy (900+ wins), you know you can make plays with your dribbling, scoring ability and passing. It's NBA level, no playground. You're trying to discredit a player's ability which is worse than not giving credits... it's a shame...

 

But saying you can do all his stuff in a playground is sad... so you can do all NBA players' (aside of Kobe of course!) moves? That's great... we know you're the greatest after Kobe. lol

Edited September 2, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

You're trying to discredit a player's ability which is worse than not giving credits... it's a shame...

And you're trying to tell us that JR Smith (yeah, him) can be a franchise player if he just worked on his game and "do as you say."

 

Do you ever wonder why people don't agree with stuff like that? Why nobody actually thinks Arron Afflalo can average 20 PPG? Why nobody has come out and stated that Danilo Gallinari is a franchise player? Why nobody else on the site thought the Nuggets were going to beat the Lakers in 2009, and beat them in 2008?

 

More people would be slamming him just as hard as I am if I wasn't covering everything.

 

But to be completely honest here, this topic isn't even interesting anymore. Once it gets stomped on so many times, I start to wonder why I'm still talking about a guy that's just going to do the same thing every single year, even if his attitude improves (which it never will), because he doesn't have the desire or hunger to be that player you want him to be, let alone possess the skills on either side of the ball or the leadership it takes.

 

When the 2010-11 season ends for Denver in April or May, you can go back to JR Smith's play and see what I'm talking about.

 

And that's if Denver and George Karl (you know, the 900+ win coach that you suddenly give credit to) decides they want to keep him.

[Nitro]

More people would be slamming him just as hard as I am if I wasn't covering everything.

 

This. +1

 

To think JR Smith passes like a PG is laughable. Most good swingmen can make those passes you showed, Snake. And being a PG-level playmaker has far more to do than the actual pass. It has a lot more to do with instincts, vision, anticipation, feel and intelligence. JR Smith lacks in those categories, and doesn't show what he is proficient in as a playmaker on a consistent basis (which means it doesn't matter).

 

And FYI, SG's off the top of my head that are clearly better passer/playmakers than JR- T-Mac (if you consider him a SG), Kobe, Wade, $JJ, Iggy (if you consider him a SG, if not then insert Evan Turner), Monta Ellis, Ginobili, Tyreke Evans (his natural position is SG), Carter, Terry, Arenas, S-Jax, Salmons, Ray Allen, etc...

[GamerGuy]

Kwame Brown had that "package" as well, he just needed to overcome....himself. He played under Phil Jackson and Kobe for what, two years? Yeah, he didn't change. In fact I think he got worse.

 

Same thing would happen to JR.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^To Gamerguy, comparing J.R. to Kwame is laughable... Besides the 32 and 20 he had in a game against Kings (when he was still a Wiz), Kwame has done nothing in his career. J.R. on the other had plenty of 40 pt games, plenty of 9+ threes, plenty of "flashes of brilliance".

 

 

---

 

 

Like I said I'm not basing my observation on nothing... If I said Afflalo can average 25 ppg, people will roll their eyes and I'd understand.

 

 

There's a reason why J.R. is J.R. People are different, some boys will be mature (like Afflalo), some boys will have attitude and tough to reach. The reason J.R. has not developed fully is the coach, Karl... although he trusts J.R. with his court skills, he doesn't communicate eye-to-eye with him. He doesn't bother to try to reach to him... so as a result, J.R. being the defiant boy that needs guidance thought he is alienated and obviously wouldn't try to reach to Karl.

 

Byron Scott hated him, Karl hated him once but learned to tolerate him but still not communicated very effectively.

 

 

The person who can maximize his output is Phil... because this is his area of expertise, relating to players and bringing out the best in them.

 

 

---

 

 

To Nitro, J.R. passes like a PG. This means you have not observed him much. Trust me, I watched many of his games... and I am not overrating him by any means. Again, I'm not a J.R. fan. This is no future "J.R. is going to lead the league in assist one day" projection... but rather a current one. It's laughable a Laker fan like Real would forget how well he passed when he was the one constantly penetrating Laker defense and dropping passes to bigs or kick it out to Billups and Kleiza in Lakers WCF two years ago. He passed so well, I remember JVG said that he didn't know J.R. could pass this well... He was the ONLY one who did this because Billups was not as explosive as him and because he had this passing skill. He was essentially our PG creating plays for others and himself and still is to some extent.

 

He doesn't have just the passing skill but also the vision. He knows where to drop it off (bounce) perfectly so the ball goes high enough to end up in the receiver's hand level, not the knee, and they're ready to go... I've seen Allen Iverson pass to guys' knees and they have to bend over to reach the ball, breaking any movement rhythm...

 

A lot of people can penetrate with their explosiveness, but not many of them can pass to find the guys, they usually end up committing a turnover. If you think such simple play is "simple" check the current Team USA. I guarantee 1 out of 2 times Billups penetrates, draws a second defender, and tries to dish it to his big man, he will commit a turnover... I know this cuz he's done it a lot in Denver. And he's a frickin PG. J.R. does PG stuff better than Billups, but also because he has the passing skill and more importantly vision. Too bad I can't find the youtube of J.R.'s passes... but one of them is the one above... from J.R. to Nene... it may look like a simple play and a simple pass... but trust me, not many NBA PGs can do this... it's a perfect bounce pass with one hand and with little time to react and execute through 2 defenders. Many guys would do it and they end up hitting the defender's legs or the ball goes too fast or too low the receiver does not get the ball. Or they are concerned about being intercepted and committing a turnover, so they tried to lob the ball... it is not as easy as it looks... but J.R. made it look easy. I know that it is a skill by just looking at it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEPwMke2sA&feature=player_embedded

Edited September 3, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

J.R. on the other had plenty of 40 pt games, plenty of 9+ threes, plenty of "flashes of brilliance".

For future references, he's had four 40's and only two games with 9+ threes made.

 

Kyle wasn't comparing Kwame and Smith, he was comparing their inability to "tap into their potential" (whatever potential is there).

 

But if you want a comparison, go look at Mo Williams, who has racked up 2-3 games of 40+ points in his career, is a decent three-point shooter (I remember he hit 7-7 in a game just last year), catches fire just like Smith, and is probably best suited as a backup two-guard, just like Smith. Lack of mid-range, lack of post skills, doesn't run the point as well as he should (but much better than Smith).

 

Difference? Mo Williams was able to average 17-18 PPG for three years straight, on a team with a superstar (like Melo) for the year he averaged his 18. He also did it shooting 46% or better from the floor twice in those three seasons.

 

Also took nearly the same amount of shot attempts as Smith in two of those seasons.

 

There's your comparison, by the numbers...and JR Smith doesn't even measure up to Mo Williams, let alone a real all-star, and especially a superstar.

[Real Deal]

t's laughable a Laker fan like Real would forget how well he passed when he was the one constantly penetrating Laker defense and dropping passes to bigs or kick it out to Billups and Kleiza in Lakers WCF two years ago. He passed so well, I remember JVG said that he didn't know J.R. could pass this well... He was the ONLY one who did this because Billups was not as explosive as him and because he had this passing skill. He was essentially our PG creating plays for others and himself and still is to some extent.

Yeah, Smith averaged 3.3 APG in that series, 2.17 turnovers.

 

His best passing game was Game 3, when he shot 4-15 (.267) from the floor, 2-10 3PT. Six assists.

 

His second best, Game 5, he was shooting 3-13 (.231) from the floor, 1-10 3PT, and he threw just four assists.

 

When he was fire (you know, like in Game 6, where he shot 10-17 for 24 PTS), he threw zero assists.

 

Just so you know, Billups averaged 6.0 APG that series, doubled Smith's totals, with just 2.33 turnovers a game, nearly matching Smith while handling the ball more.

 

So...who was creating plays?

 

Oh, and Billups wasn't as explosive? Wasn't as effective, I'm guessing? He had 48 free throws in the series. Smith took just 13 in those six games.

 

Haha...please. Smith couldn't hold Billups' jock, in any NBA season. Overrating him again.

[Multi-Billionaire]

They're different... for one, physically, Mo is only 6-1, 190lbs... nowhere close to J.R.'s built (6-6, 220lbs). The reason you're comparing him straight to J.R. is because of their numbers, but you're conveniently ignoring everything else. Like I said you cover stats, you only cover 50% of the observation.

 

If I have to pick one of the two to run my team's offense, I'll go with J.R. 10 out of 10 times. I don't think Mo has sufficient ball handling skill to run a team full time, he brings the ball up and gives it to LeBron. He catches and shoots. That's about it. J.R. beats defenders with his dribbling, able to shoot or pass with high accuracy off the dribble. He is our part-time PG (trusted by GK to run our team's offense) and GK doesn't even talk to him eye-to-eye.

[Real Deal]

Like I said you cover stats, you only cover 50% of the observation.

And the only thing that Smith has in common with Kobe is the height, the Western Conference, and his skin color...so if I can't compare Mo Williams to J.R. Smith, don't ever put Smith and Kobe (or any superstar) in the same sentence.

 

If I have to pick one of the two to run my team's offense, I'll go with J.R. 10 out of 10 times. I don't think Mo has sufficient ball handling skill to run a team full time, he brings the ball up and gives it to LeBron. He catches and shoots. That's about it. J.R. beats defenders with his dribbling, able to shoot or pass with high accuracy off the dribble. He is our part-time PG (trusted by GK to run our team's offense) and GK doesn't even talk to him eye-to-eye.

Smith has not proven to anyone that he can run a team full-time. I already dropkicked that idea by providing you with what he did against the Lakers in the WCF, that you were so proud of.

 

If Smith beat defenders with his dribbling, he'd be shooting less threes and taking WAY more than just two free throws per game.

 

Pass with high accuracy off the dribble? He can't even reach three assists per game in a season, despite having one of the best scorers in the league on his team. What's the excuse for that? Typically, if you're such an excellent passer, you pass the ball.

 

Billups: 5.6

Anthony: 3.2

Lawson: 3.1

Carter: 3.0

Nene: 2.5

Smith: 2.4

 

For being such an excellent player, he sure doesn't show it, passing the ball or shooting. His defense is average, at best. His attitude sucks. He has never scored over 26-27 in a playoff game. Shoots just two free throws per game. Attempts over 13 FGA per game despite coming off the bench and putting up 41-42% shooting nights.

 

All of that, and this guy is supposed to tap into his potential and become a superstar after six full seasons of bench play? Haha...I'm done talking about this dude.

[Nitro]

To Nitro, J.R. passes like a PG. This means you have not observed him much. Trust me, I watched many of his games... and I am not overrating him by any means. Again, I'm not a J.R. fan. This is no future "J.R. is going to lead the league in assist one day" projection... but rather a current one. It's laughable a Laker fan like Real would forget how well he passed when he was the one constantly penetrating Laker defense and dropping passes to bigs or kick it out to Billups and Kleiza in Lakers WCF two years ago. He passed so well, I remember JVG said that he didn't know J.R. could pass this well... He was the ONLY one who did this because Billups was not as explosive as him and because he had this passing skill. He was essentially our PG creating plays for others and himself and still is to some extent.

 

He doesn't have just the passing skill but also the vision. He knows where to drop it off (bounce) perfectly so the ball goes high enough to end up in the receiver's hand level, not the knee, and they're ready to go... I've seen Allen Iverson pass to guys' knees and they have to bend over to reach the ball, breaking any movement rhythm...

 

A lot of people can penetrate with their explosiveness, but not many of them can pass to find the guys, they usually end up committing a turnover. If you think such simple play is "simple" check the current Team USA. I guarantee 1 out of 2 times Billups penetrates, draws a second defender, and tries to dish it to his big man, he will commit a turnover... I know this cuz he's done it a lot in Denver. And he's a frickin PG. J.R. does PG stuff better than Billups, but also because he has the passing skill and more importantly vision. Too bad I can't find the youtube of J.R.'s passes... but one of them is the one above... from J.R. to Nene... it may look like a simple play and a simple pass... but trust me, not many NBA PGs can do this... it's a perfect bounce pass with one hand and with little time to react and execute through 2 defenders. Many guys would do it and they end up hitting the defender's legs or the ball goes too fast or too low the receiver does not get the ball. Or they are concerned about being intercepted and committing a turnover, so they tried to lob the ball... it is not as easy as it looks... but J.R. made it look easy. I know that it is a skill by just looking at it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmEPwMke2sA&feature=player_embedded

 

He doesn't pass like a PG. He can make the occasional flashy pass, but good PG's and elite passing SG's are able to crack 3.0APG at least once in SIX seasons. JR never has. Good PG's and elite SG's have a much better AST:TO ratio than roughly 1:1. JR doesn't. Most good PG's and elite passing SG's are GIVEN THE OPPERTUNITY to make plays for themselves and for teammates despite their coach not being on great terms with them. JR isn't because it's not a strong enough attribute of his that utilizing it more would benefit the team (and with a shoot-first PG in Billups, that speaks volumes to how much Karl trusts him with the ball to make plays in volume for himself and teammates). Hell, he was SIXTH on the Nuggets last year in APG, below frigging Nene.

 

If you want to break it down to basics, JR doesn't have the mentality of a playmaker. He just doesn't. He can do it on occasion, but he's not a guy you can trust to run the offense an entire game consistently. The fact that less than 20% of his shot attempts are at the rim and he only gets to the line like 3x per game makes the issue even worse because it takes away the ability to collapse defenses. Whether he has the ability to change that or not is irrelevant because A) Until he changes it, you can't make assumptions, and B) By a player's 7th season, they are almost always set in their playing style.

 

Unless there is some crazy conspiracy to hold JR down (which there isn't because he was 5th on the team last year in MPG and 2nd in FGA), what we see is what we get. And what we get is a guy who has never met a jumper he didn't like and cannot and will not be a primary playmaker for his teammates.

[Poe]

Bah, too many tl;dr posts that are all really the same.

 

Here are the two sides:

 

Snake - JR's peak is as high as any #1 or #2 option player in the league, but only lacks the focus and discipline to advance his game and reach the plateau. He's had flashes of brilliance, and all he needs to do is sustain the high point of his game. The only way to bring the most out of his abilities is to find a coach with a history of overcoming corrupt egos and strong personalities, like Phil Jackson.

 

RD and Nitro - Snake is overrating JR's abilities, when a role player shouldn't be comparable to a player of Bryant's caliber in the first place. Just because a player is athletic, can shoot, and has made fancy plays once or twice doesn't mean he will be a #1 or #2 option for a good team, and even Phil Jackson has failed to bring the most out of players, like Sun Yue and Von Wafer.

 

 

And they ain't changing. End of discussion.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Poe

[His Greatness]

If I grew a foot, added a hundred pounds, and worked on my post skills every day, I could be an all-star big man.

[Jammin]

You guys do realize this article is over a year old too right?

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Pfft Von Wafer > JR Smith.

Pffft. Get outta here.

[Multi-Billionaire]

You guys realize J.R.'s 27.7 mpg is 5th on the team right? And he's not a starter and that he's not the PG of the team... that's why he's just 6th on the team in assist... and the three guys ahead of him in that department are PGs (Billups, Carter, Ty)... and Nene is one of the best passing bigs in the L, and Melo's 0.8+ apg is the result of him dominating the ball and playing 11 mpg more than J.R.

 

If I were to choose an NBA SG to run my team's offense, J.R. would be on top of my list. T-Mac? He's washed up. Kobe? He's too offensive minded to do it for long stretch.

 

J.R. can only make occasional flashy pass? I agree that most NBA players can do some flashy passes, but if you think these flashy passes are what I want you to notice from J.R.'s passing ability, you're mistaken. Watch more Nugget games, you'd be surprised he doesn't commit turnovers on his passes. He does what PGs do, penetrates, draws defenders and you will see that J.R. drops a perfect pass to his bigs (alley oop, bounce, or straight) or kick out to outside shooters. I was and am still surprised by how well he passes, but what surprises me the most are his vision and unselfishness.

 

Unselfish? J.R.? Yes, he can be trigger happy with his 3 pointers but other than that he is very unselfish. That is why I do think you don't watch enough J.R./ Nugget games.

 

There's a reason why Karl gives him the ball to run the team's offense EVEN when Billups is on the floor, in the playoffs, when the game nears to end. And GK can't even stand him.

 

---

 

Anyway, we sidetracked a little bit... enough talking about passing. We're talking about how J.R. can measure to Kobe Bryant.

 

Did I say he will average 25 ppg? No.

 

But can he average 25 ppg? Absolutely, guy averages 15 ppg on just long range bomb and occasional drives to the rim. If he adds two elements (mid-range game and a skill to go to free throw line) he can improve his scoring by 5 ppg easily on each aspect. Rip Hamilton became a multiple All Star by mastering the mid-range, Corey Maggette's bread and butter is free throw where he scores 6.6 ppg from the stripe every game and is the reason why Bucks, who struggled to get to free throw line, acquired him.

 

If he averages 25 ppg, which I think he can, then the discussion of this thread that he could be as good as Kobe would not be viewed as "crazy".

Edited September 3, 2010 by Snake

[GamerGuy]

If I were to choose an NBA SG to run my team's offense, J.R. would be on top of my list. T-Mac? He's washed up. Kobe? He's too offensive minded to do it for long stretch.

You can't be serious. Surely you jest...

[Real Deal]

You can't be serious. Surely you jest...

LOL, yeah...Fisher runs our offense. Kobe has never led the team in assists, either...not even in the dynasty years.

[kingfish]

Please, for the love of God.

 

 

[Multi-Billionaire]

I'll be bumping this thread in 4-5 years once Kobe has retired and you Lakers are left with Shannon Brown and Vujajic... and J.R. is somewhere droppin 23-25 ppg... you guys wishin he be your SG, and Mitch devising a Pau Gasol rob trade to bring him in.

 

[YugoRocketsFan]

I'll be bumping this thread in 4-5 years once Kobe has retired and you Lakers are left with Shannon Brown and Vujajic... and J.R. is somewhere droppin 23-25 ppg... you guys wishin he be your SG, and Mitch devising a Pau Gasol rob trade to bring him in.

 

 

When that happens, they'll switch fanbases.

[Guest STL10]

I can think of at least 15 shooting guards better than Earl (JR) Smith.

 

He is basically a tall Jason Terry.

 

Takes a lot of shots and dishes a few dimes.

 

Real Deal=Winner of this unneeded debate

[Poe]

Real Deal=Winner of this unneeded debate

 

There are no winners in this debate until we see the result and find out who is right, since this is a debate about things that haven't even happened yet. If JR averages 25 ppg for a full season at some point in his career, Snake wins. If JR doesn't ever reach that mark, RD wins.