Moss and the all-time greatest WRs

[BasX]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/brettcabanas/swann_stallworth.jpg

[EastCoastNiner]

Emmitt is probably the 3rd or 4th best RB of all time.

 

My list would probably go:

 

1. Barry Sanders

2. Jim Brown

3. Walter Payton

4. Emmit

5. Marshall Faulk (most underrated player of all time)

 

 

No, just no. Very few people outside of Dallas would even consider him in the top five. Anyone could have run through his O-Line.

[Lkr]

Emmitt is probably the 3rd or 4th best RB of all time.

 

My list would probably go:

 

1. Barry Sanders

2. Jim Brown

3. Walter Payton

4. Emmit

5. Marshall Faulk (most underrated player of all time)

Not too sure if I'd put Sanders ahead of Payton.

[Flash]

Not too sure if I'd put Sanders ahead of Payton.

 

Barry was the best back I've seen whether on the field or on tape. He's probably the most talented back I've ever seen. He only failed to reach 1,300 yards once in ten seasons. His career 5.0 YPC is amazing considering he never had the line that Emmit or even Sweetness had. Had Sanders not retired early he would've crushed Payton's running record with ease and Emmitt never would've caught up to him. Sanders was only one of 6 players to ever rush for over 2,000 yards in a season and averaged over 10 yards per game more than Payton over their careers.

 

Basically, this is only a discussion because Sanders retired early. Paytons numbers wouldn't even be comparable had Sanders played for another year or 2.

[Lkr]

If Payton had an offensive line, he would have better stats.

[Flash]

If Payton had an offensive line, he would have better stats.

 

That OL argument might work with Emmit, but not Sanders. Barry had no OL at any point during his career. In 10 years he had a lineman make the pro bowl once. Not any of the QB's or receivers around him ever made a pro bowl. It was just him out there on offense.

[Flash]

Payton also fumbled twice as many times as Sanders did over their careers.

[Lkr]

Payton also fumbled twice as many times as Sanders did over their careers.

Payton was an entire offense too. With no line.

[Flash]

This is basically splitting hairs. Both were incredible players but had different styles so you can really go either way with it.

[NomarFachix]

That OL argument might work with Emmit, but not Sanders. Barry had no OL at any point during his career. In 10 years he had a lineman make the pro bowl once. It was just him out there on offense.

 

Lomas Brown is a hall of fame candidate and Kevin Glover was a very good center. I won't claim to know a ton about the Lions offensive lines, but those two were above average run blockers.

 

Herman Moore, anyone?

 

He also has the NFL record for negative yardage plays, 336 negative yardage carries for -952 yards.

 

Top 5? Absolutely! #1? No.

 

Just my opinion, guys!

Edited September 17, 2010 by Chicks Love Hakeem Nicks

[Flash]

Lomas Brown is a hall of fame candidate and Kevin Glover was a very good center. I won't claim to know a ton about the Lions offensive lines, but those two were above average run blockers.

 

Herman Moore, anyone?

 

He also has the NFL record for negative yardage plays, 336 negative yardage carries for -952 yards.

 

Top 5? Absolutely! #1? No.

 

Just my opinion, guys!

 

That's due to Barry's style of running. The fact that he had all those negative rushes and still managed to end up third on the all time yards list while retiring in his prime says something about how explosive he was. He's 1, 2 or 3 because those guys are interchangeable.

[AboveLegit]

That OL argument might work with Emmit, but not Sanders. Barry had no OL at any point during his career. In 10 years he had a lineman make the pro bowl once. Not any of the QB's or receivers around him ever made a pro bowl. It was just him out there on offense.

I think Sanders' line doesn't get enough credit as it was kind of a no name line, but it was still good. I'm not as familiar with Payton supporting cast, but I do know that they didn't get a playoff win until his ninth season despite the fact that he constantly had phenomenal seasons (I mean, how bad does the rest of your team have to be if you go 9-5 when your running back rushes for over 1800 yards). Not to mention I always thought that Payton was a good bit better than his immediate comteporaries at the time (Dorsett was faster and Campbell was more punishing, but neither them were as close to as consistent as Payton), where as I never got that feeling watching Sanders (Smith was every bit as good as a running back as Sanders just not as flashy and Thomas gets a little underrated but was just as effective as Sanders because of his all around game).

 

Sanders though I don't think is ever put into the proper context. He never played in a system that was ever geared to run the ball, and I mean ever. He played a good portion of his career in the run and shoot, which leads to a lot of delays and not many straight ahead running plays. This had both positive and negative effects on Sanders career. Since most teams when playing the Lions prepared themselves to get beaten by the pass, gave Sanders a lot of running room, but at the same time, the Lions never focused on Sanders as a runner. He only finished in the top 5 in rushing attempts three times in his career (and only once higher than 4th) despite always being in the top 3 in rushing yards. In the season where he rushed for over 2000 yards, he outgained Terrell Davis by 300 yards despite carrying the ball 30 less times. So, he never got the workhorse numbers that other great running backs like Brown, Payton, and Smith got.

 

Could Sanders have carried a team like Payton did, probably not, he wasn't built in the same way that Payton was and probably would've broken down under that kind of treatment. But he was effective in the system that he ran in and if he hadn't retired he would've absolutely shattered Payton's record and kept so far out of reach that Smith wouldn't have gotten a sniff of it considering that he didn't have the wear and tear that most backs would have gotten at that point in their career. Now if I had to take one of them, I'd probably take Payton, who would've had a 2000 yard rushing if the Bears had any semblance of a passing game in his prime (of course, if the offensive minds in Dallas had any creativity after Turner left, Smith would've had a 2000 yard season instead of just constantly running him inside the tackle). Payton just has more evidence that you could successfully build an offense around him, whereas Sanders, while he might have been able to carry team, never had the evidence of an offense being constructed around him.

 

My list for RB's all time is:

 

1. Walter Payton

2. Jim Brown

3. Barry Sanders

4. Emmitt Smith

5. Marshall Faulk

[NomarFachix]

That's due to Barry's style of running. The fact that he had all those negative rushes and still managed to end up third on the all time yards list while retiring in his prime says something about how explosive he was. He's 1, 2 or 3 because those guys are interchangeable.

 

How can a guy be #1 if he isn't even used on goalline carries?

[fish7718]

No, just no. Very few people outside of Dallas would even consider him in the top five. Anyone could have run through his O-Line.

smh, you're a moron.

 

edit: btw I love Faulk, probably the most dynamic RB of all time, revolutionized the passing game for a RB, but no way hes better than Dickerson and Sayers.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Fish7718

[EastCoastNiner]

smh, you're a moron.

 

edit: btw I love Faulk, probably the most dynamic RB of all time, revolutionized the passing game for a RB, but no way hes better than Dickerson and Sayers.

 

You're just a biased Dallas fan. Very few people outside of Dallas would even consider him.

 

Also, the Detroit Lions offensive-line was pretty much a college line. Barry made those guys look better than they were, and they still sucked.

 

He had a lot of negative carries because they couldn't block worth [expletive].

[NomarFachix]

You're just a biased Dallas fan. Very few people outside of Dallas would even consider him.

 

Also, the Detroit Lions offensive-line was pretty much a college line. Barry made those guys look better than they were, and they still sucked.

 

He had a lot of negative carries because they couldn't block worth [expletive].

 

Ignorance ^^^

[Lkr]

Ignorance ^^^

Don't worry, Corey Dillon is in his top 5

[fish7718]

You're just a biased Dallas fan. Very few people outside of Dallas would even consider him.

 

Also, the Detroit Lions offensive-line was pretty much a college line. Barry made those guys look better than they were, and they still sucked.

 

He had a lot of negative carries because they couldn't block worth [expletive].

No, very few people in the whole entire world who know a considerable amount about football would leave Emmitt outside of the top 5. Even if you are going to argue other guys had more talent you can't make an argument against Emmitt's longevity and ability to stay healthy (11 straight years of 1,000+ yards). Nor can you make an argument against the rings, nor the super bowl MVP, nor the fact he's all team leading rusher, or the fact he's one of the most talented RB's of all time. You say very few ppl outside of Dallas don't have Emmitt yet everybody who posted their top 5 besides you included Emmitt.

 

Lol @ Barry having a college line, stop looking at highlights where teams just all out blitzed Barry and he happened to make a play and look at entire games.

[EastCoastNiner]

No, very few people in the whole entire world who know a considerable amount about football would leave Emmitt outside of the top 5. Even if you are going to argue other guys had more talent you can't make an argument against Emmitt's longevity and ability to stay healthy (11 straight years of 1,000+ yards). Nor can you make an argument against the rings, nor the super bowl MVP, nor the fact he's all team leading rusher, or the fact he's one of the most talented RB's of all time. You say very few ppl outside of Dallas don't have Emmitt yet everybody who posted their top 5 besides you included Emmitt.

 

Lol @ Barry having a college line, stop looking at highlights where teams just all out blitzed Barry and he happened to make a play and look at entire games.

 

No, I listen to interviews of players that were ON Barry's team that have said that and players that played during his era said the exact same thing. If you think his O-Line was anything more than poor, you are out of your mind.

 

Smith was not better than Payton, Brown, Sanders, Cambell, Dickerson, Sears, Simpson, or Jackson. I'm not going with the crap longevity argument when it's easy not to get banged up running behind arguably the greatest offensive-line ever assembled. That's the reason you want to bring it up because they skill just isn't there compared to those HB's.

 

Barry faced 8 man boxes, where team didn't have to focus on Smith nearly as much because they shifted their focus to Aikmen and Irvin. It's really not that hard to rush for as many yards as he did when you have his O-line.

 

Not to mention the QB carousel that the Lions had during Barry's career.

 

 

Did Barry Sanders ever had FOUR offensive-linemen in the pro-bowl at once, along with with a pro-bowl FB, pro-bowl TE, pro-bowl QB, and pro-bowl WR all in the same season? No, he didn't.

 

You want to play the longevity card because quit frankly, you can't play the talent card with Smith in this situation. Longevity has to do with awareness, and most of all luck. I could play 15 seasons if I never got hit with four hogs in front of me.

[EastCoastNiner]

Anyways, let's just get this back on topic.

 

There was no need to start and HB list just because someone mentioned that they thought Rice/Brown were the two best ever.

[fish7718]

No, I listen to interviews of players that were ON Barry's team that have said that and players that played during his era said the exact same thing. If you think his O-Line was anything more than poor, you are out of your mind.

 

Smith was not better than Payton, Brown, Sanders, Cambell, Dickerson, Sears, Simpson, or Jackson. I'm not going with the crap longevity argument when it's easy not to get banged up running behind arguably the greatest offensive-line ever assembled. That's the reason you want to bring it up because they skill just isn't there compared to those HB's.

 

Barry faced 8 man boxes, where team didn't have to focus on Smith nearly as much because they shifted their focus to Aikmen and Irvin. It's really not that hard to rush for as many yards as he did when you have his O-line.

 

Not to mention the QB carousel that the Lions had during Barry's career.

 

 

Did Barry Sanders ever had FOUR offensive-linemen in the pro-bowl at once, along with with a pro-bowl FB, pro-bowl TE, pro-bowl QB, and pro-bowl WR all in the same season? No, he didn't.

 

You want to play the longevity card because quit frankly, you can't play the talent card with Smith in this situation. Longevity has to do with awareness, and most of all luck. I could play 15 seasons if I never got hit with four hogs in front of me.

Lol you're so wrong. Smith was just as talented as the backs, I play the longevity card because it simply can't be ignored. Especially looking at todays players. Staying healthy for that long is absolutley incredible and the fact that you try to discredit that and then say that you could do it honestly makes you look really dumb. It's whatever I don't care to argue about this because you're just going to keep using the talent around Emmitt to discredit his talent which is silly. Yes he had pro bowlers around him but it didn't make him any less of a player.

[NomarFachix]

Barry Sanders had talent on the offensive line (Lomas Brown is a hall of fame candidate, SMH) and Emmitt Smith was an above average running back who aged tremendously well and was able to stay healthy throughout his tenure with an immensely talented team from top to bottom.

 

Now both of you STFU