The Crew Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 I said Steve Smith. Maybe if he actually had an NFL quarterback throwing to him, he's have more than 13 catches for 174 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 You said Andre Johnson was the best WR in the league, and then you said if Calvin has a QB he'd be "hands down" the best in the league. That's a complete contradiction. So, just saying "if he had a better QB" doesn't make much sense because you're either the best or you're not. I don't really care one way or the other, but you're flip flopping. So, which one is it then? IF Calvin Johnson had someone like Schaub throwing him the ball, then he would be the best WR in the league. What is so hard to understand LMAO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 IF Calvin Johnson had someone like Schaub throwing him the ball, then he would be the best WR in the league. What is so hard to understand LMAO? So, he just magically becomes the best WR if he has a QB? How the [expletive] does that make ANY sense? Maybe he'll have the best stats if he has a different QB, but what you are saying makes no sense. I get your point, but it's worded improperly. You don't just become the best by changing QB's. You either have it or you don't. Your stats will increase with a better QB, but your talent level doesn't change based on who your QB is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 So, he just magically becomes the best WR if he has a QB? How the [expletive] does that make ANY sense? Maybe he'll have the best stats if he has a different QB, but what you are saying makes no sense. I get your point, but it's worded improperly. You don't just become the best by changing QB's. You either have it or you don't. Your stats will increase with a better QB, but your talent level doesn't change based on who your QB is. Stats are a big determinant of how good you are. If you have a good QB then obviously your stats will look a lot more attractive, and therefore you'll get a lot more recognition. Take Randy Moss for example, in the two years he played for the Raiders no one considered him as the best WR in the league and that's because is production was at a career low. But his first year with the Pats, he put up incredible numbers and he once again was in the discussion for best WR in the league. There are alot of WR's in the league who have the talent but are stuck in [expletive]ty situations, the Calvin is at the top of that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 Stats are a big determinant of how good you are. If you have a good QB then obviously your stats will look a lot more attractive, and therefore you'll get a lot more recognition. Take Randy Moss for example, in the two years he played for the Raiders no one considered him as the best WR in the league and that's because is production was at a career low. But his first year with the Pats, he put up incredible numbers and he once again was in the discussion for best WR in the league. There are alot of WR's in the league who have the talent but are stuck in [expletive]ty situations, the Calvin is at the top of that list. That's where you are completely wrong. Stats don't really tell how good you are. They tell how you perform which is completely different. Performance and talent are different things, and being the best at something is largely about talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crew Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 So, he just magically becomes the best WR if he has a QB? How the [expletive] does that make ANY sense? Maybe he'll have the best stats if he has a different QB, but what you are saying makes no sense. I get your point, but it's worded improperly. You don't just become the best by changing QB's. You either have it or you don't. Your stats will increase with a better QB, but your talent level doesn't change based on who your QB is. Eh, some players are more determined and play harder when they know that they will have a good QB throwing to them, so it could affect their talent level, or at least how talented they look on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) That's where you are completely wrong. Stats don't really tell how good you are. They tell how you perform which is completely different. Performance and talent are different things, and being the best at something is largely about talent. I have no idea what you are saying. Randy Moss had loads of talent in Oakland but he didn't do [expletive], because the Raiders offense stunk. The question asked was, "who is the biggest waste of talent?" So basically by your logic your saying that since Moss didn't put up production is because he didn't have talent. Your argument is making no sense whatsoever. Edited October 14, 2010 by Confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Make It Naaaashty Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 lol ECN, it's not that hard to understand what Jeet is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) I have no idea what you are saying. Randy Moss had loads of talent in Oakland but he didn't do [expletive], because the Raiders offense stunk. The question asked was, "who is the biggest waste of talent?" So basically by your logic your saying that since Moss didn't put up production is because he didn't have talent. Your argument is making no sense whatsoever. Are you really that retarded? You said that Calvin Johnson is the biggest waste of talent, which I NEVER argued. However, you said that if he had a better QB he'd be the best WR in the game and you also said Andre is the best. You don't even know what you said. Not once did I mention you said Calvin wasn't a wasted talent. Do I really need to show you what you are saying and why you aren't making sense? My argument never was that Calvin isn't a wasted talent. It never had to do with that. I'm saying you said two different players were the best at their position, and I asked which one it was. Edited October 15, 2010 by EastCoastNiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Are you really that retarded? You said that Calvin Johnson is the biggest waste of talent, which I NEVER argued. However, you said that if he had a better QB he'd be the best WR in the game and you also said Andre is the best. You don't even know what you said. Not once did I mention you said Calvin wasn't a wasted talent. Do I really need to show you what you are saying and why you aren't making sense? I'm not the only one who finds your argument completely retarded. I'm just going to stop here, because I really don't know wtf your talking about now. Edited October 15, 2010 by Confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) I'm the only one finding your argument completely retarded. I'm just going to stop here, because I really don't know wtf your talking about now. Let's break it down: - You said Andre was the best in another thread, and then said Calvin would be the best if he had a better QB. Notice I never said he wasn't a wasted talent? - Moss WAS a wasted talent in Oakland, but he was still the best WR in the game. Edited October 15, 2010 by EastCoastNiner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 No, you're either the best or you're not. You don't need the best stats to be considered the best, so the situation is irrelevant. It's like saying Randy Moss was still a poor WR when he was in Oakland, when that is just completely false. Nobody said Calvin or Andre is or were poor receivers. Do you honestly think people considered Randy Moss the best WR in football when he was with the Raiders? How about after coming to the Patriots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I'll just settle this one now..Andre Johnson >>>>>> Calvin Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Well lock the thread, it's settled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Bomba Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Translation: Miami > Georgia Tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Nobody said Calvin or Andre is or were poor receivers. Do you honestly think people considered Randy Moss the best WR in football when he was with the Raiders? How about after coming to the Patriots? That's not what I was saying. I'm saying that you can still be the best WR in the league without putting up the best stats. Do you honestly think that Moss wouldn't have been one of the top WR's taken if the the first one if GM's had a chance to pick any WR to add to their team while he was in Oakland? The skill was there, but the statis weren't. Also, I think Calvin and Andre are close, but I have always liked Calvin and think he's by far the most physically gifted WR in the league. He has Shaun Hill throwing to him and is still putting up good stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I'm not sure what GMs would have done, but he wasn't the consensus #1 like he was in Minny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I'm not sure what GMs would have done, but he wasn't the consensus #1 like he was in Minny. That's certainly true. I think the whole disagreement in here is that some of you think that you can't be the best player at your position without the best stats. That's what I'm disagreeing with, Calvin will be tearing up this league for years to come, especially when he signs with the Patriots when he reaches free-agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Calvin will be tearing up this league for years to come, especially when he signs with the Patriots when he reaches free-agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 That's certainly true. I think the whole disagreement in here is that some of you think that you can't be the best player at your position without the best stats. That's what I'm disagreeing with, Calvin will be tearing up this league for years to come, especially when he signs with the Patriots when he reaches free-agency.http://www.facebook.com/pages/realizing-youre-wrong-in-the-middle-of-an-argument-but-continuing-to-argue/180962317878?v=wall LIKE IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 http://www.facebook.com/pages/realizing-youre-wrong-in-the-middle-of-an-argument-but-continuing-to-argue/180962317878?v=wall LIKE IT That is the whole problem. You guys lack comprehension skills. You don't automatically become the best or lose your title of being the best based on who your QB is. Is Brandon Llyod better than Calvin Johnson because he has a better QB and better stats? No. Being the best has very little baring on who you QB is. You'll perform better with a better QB, but you either have it or you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 You're either the best or not regardless of who's throwing to you. Putting up stats is a different story, but being the best has mostly to do with talent and performance. No, you're either the best or you're not. You don't need the best stats to be considered the best, so the situation is irrelevant.I don't get it, you claim that stats play no role in how good of a WR you are, yet you say your performance has a part to do with how good you are. How in the world is Calvin supposed to put up big performances and prove why he's the best when his QB isn't nearly as good as Shaub? The Lions are still in their rebuilding process, it is going slowly but surely, but can you imagine if Calvin was put on a team with a veteran receiver to mentor him, an established QB to throw to him, and other weapons to give him support? He could easily put up Randy Moss like numbers in his rookie season, probably even better. Would you call Jerry Rice the greatest receiver of all time if he had a below average QB throwing to him? I'm willing to bet that all those records Jerry had broken would not have existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 lmao ^^^ That's a complete contradiction. I don't really care one way or the other, but you're flip flopping. So, which one is it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I don't get it, you claim that stats play no role in how good of a WR you are, yet you say your performance has a part to do with how good you are. How in the world is Calvin supposed to put up big performances and prove why he's the best when his QB isn't nearly as good as Shaub? The Lions are still in their rebuilding process, it is going slowly but surely, but can you imagine if Calvin was put on a team with a veteran receiver to mentor him, an established QB to throw to him, and other weapons to give him support? He could easily put up Randy Moss like numbers in his rookie season, probably even better. Would you call Jerry Rice the greatest receiver of all time if he had a below average QB throwing to him? I'm willing to bet that all those records Jerry had broken would not have existed. Thank you for reinforcing my argument. If ECN still doesn't get it, then I don't know what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 My vote goes to Steven Jackson in St. Louis, but Calvin Johnson was a very close second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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