Why are people so against taxes?

[Lemon]

The term rich is pretty subjective, but to me, being financially comfortable, money not being an issue in your life, qualifies as rich.

 

Yep. Rich is subjective. To me, upper-middle class is rich. You have a nice house, 1 or 2 real nice cars, and you can afford lots of luxuries.

 

Also upper-middle class depends on where you live. 250k should be upper class in LA, but it's upper-middle class in Manhattan. That Bill Gates, Oprah, Kobe money should be considered upper-upper class. Don't even touch on that.

[JYD]

Sure...of course the term is rich is subjective. But it's pretty obvious that in this economic climate, in the year 2010 in the United States of America, 250K is rich. It's not wealthy when you compare it to the richest people in the world...sure, but that's not what were doing. We're comparing it to other people who could use the tax cuts, AKA the people under 250K a year. So in this context, it's rich.

Edited October 19, 2010 by JYD

[YugoRocketsFan]

My parents make maybe a combined 60-65K

 

We live in a 3 bedroom/2 bath house, all 3 of us have cars, both have big HDTVs (my parents have a 52), sattelite, I have a PS3, nice leather furniture in the house, dad has 2 kayaks. Might not be too much special stuff, but thats just on 60k.

 

With 250k, id be driving a nice Audi or something instead of a Ford Escort -_-, so there is a big difference

Edited October 19, 2010 by Yugo the TEЯЯИБЛE

[Flash]

My parents make maybe a combined 60-65K

 

We live in a 3 bedroom/2 bath house, all 3 of us have cars, both have big HDTVs (my parents have a 52), sattelite, I have a PS3, nice leather furniture in the house, dad has 2 kayaks. Might not be too much special stuff, but thats just on 60k.

 

With 250k, id be driving a nice Audi or something instead of a Ford Escort -_-, so there is a big difference

 

How much is the cost of living out there?

[Lkr]

How much is the cost of living out there?

well seeing as neither Houston or Miami are top 10 in cost of living, it's subjective. However, 100k is plenty in Southern California

[Nitro]

well seeing as neither Houston or Miami are top 10 in cost of living, it's subjective. However, 100k is plenty in Southern California

 

Same with NJ, which I believe has one of the highest costs of living in the country.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Guys, classifications of wealth:

 

Poor: 25k or less (annually)

Middle class: 25k - 100k (annually)

Affluent: 100k - 1mil (annually)

Rich: 1mil - or more (annually)

Ultra/ megarich: 1mil - or more (MONTHly)

 

 

I plan to be at ultra/ mega rich level btw "Life will pay what you ask of it".

 

Someone here said show me one person who doesn't want to be rich. That's true... but most of those people wish and hope... few of them desire it. And those who desire riches, get it.

 

So, what's the difference between wishing, hoping and desiring?

 

- When you WISH/ HOPE for something, you want it, but you may not necessarily do ANYthing to get it. e.g. when you refuse to run 50miles in return for an apple, then that apple is just your wish/ hope.

- When you DESIRE something, you will do ANYthing to get it (hopefully legally). Think about the last time you desire something, not many people experience it. e.g. when you are willing to run 50 miles in return for an apple (for whatever reason, maybe because you think that apple gives you the power of eternal youth), then that apple is your desire

 

 

That's the problem... only a few out of EVERY person in this world truly desire for the riches. They will do anything to be rich and put themselves in the riches way. When you desire, you begin to plan, and then put your plan into action. People who wish and hope keep wishing and hoping but never put their plans into action.

 

 

So many of you say the riches live super comfortably while the workers work their asses off. If you think it's so super nice to have a life like those rich people, why not get rich? Do you think these rich people get riches because the riches fell from the sky on top of them? Has it occurred to you they actually worked to get to the point they are now... has it occurred to you that truly rich people (anywhere, not just US) were once just like us (poor/ middle level)... not few like Robert Kiyosaki were homeless and living in a car, and that made them more determined than us middle class who instead of doing something about it, complain and condemn the riches? Why not stop complaining and do something about it... while every once in a while the same people who complain about riches, wish and hope they too were rich.

 

Without rich people, there'll be no companies, businesses, enterprises and jobs for the middle/ poor classes.

 

Instead of wishing and hoping, desire.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Multi-Billionaire

[EastCoastNiner]

Good post.

[Nitro]

Guys, classifications of wealth:

 

Poor: 25k or less (annually)

Middle class: 25k - 100k (annually)

Affluent: 100k - 1mil (annually)

Rich: 1mil - or more (annually)

Ultra/ megarich: 1mil - or more (MONTHly)

 

 

I plan to be at ultra/ mega rich level btw "Life will pay what you ask of it".

 

Someone here said show me one person who doesn't want to be rich. That's true... but most of those people wish and hope... few of them desire it. And those who desire riches, get it.

 

So, what's the difference between wishing, hoping and desiring?

 

- When you WISH/ HOPE for something, you want it, but you may not necessarily do ANYthing to get it.

- When you DESIRE something, you will do ANYthing to get it (hopefully legally). Think about the last time you desire something, not many people experience it.

 

 

That's the problem... only a few out of EVERY person in this world truly desire for the riches. They will do anything to be rich and put themselves in the riches way. When you desire, you begin to plan, and then put your plan into action. People who wish and hope keep wishing and hoping but never put their plans into action.

 

 

So many of you say the riches live super comfortably while the workers work their asses off. If you think it's so super nice to have a life like those rich people, why not get rich? Do you think these rich people get riches because the riches fell from the sky on top of them? Has it occurred to you they actually worked to get to the point they are now... has it occurred to you that truly rich people (anywhere, not just US) were once just like us (poor/ middle level)... not few like Robert Kiyosaki were homeless and living in a car, and that made them more determined than us middle class who instead of doing something about it, complain and condemn the riches? Why not stop complaining and do something about it... while every once in a while the same people who complain about riches, wish and hope they too were rich.

 

Without rich people, there'll be no companies, businesses, enterprises and jobs for the middle/ poor classes.

 

Instead of wishing and hoping, desire.

 

Thanks for the motivational speech, but it has nothing to do with the topic.

[trutrojan8]

Thanks for the motivational speech, but it has nothing to do with the topic.

lmao. that's the only post i read in this thread

[EastCoastNiner]

Thanks for the motivational speech, but it has nothing to do with the topic.

 

I know you may think it doesn't, but it does considering a lot of you are saying that just because people who make $250k don't like the taxes that they are greedy, or that they should be willing to give money because it''s their "moral obligation".

 

This isn't directed at you, but I can't wait until some of you start paying taxes. It's funny how many people that are generally liberal or for taxes when they are young switch over to a more conservative view when they are older because reality slapped them it the face......hard.

[Multi-Billionaire]

In other words, if you were poor/ middle class, pay your taxes.

 

 

Wanna know why the taxes are said to be made by the rich and for the rich? Because poor/ middle class people are taxed before they get their income. In other words, we get the left over.

 

Rich people are taxed after they get their income. Because their incomes are not "earned income" like employees. Their incomes are "passive or portfolio". Furthermore, the laws allow them to use their left over to be re-invested into their next investment before they actually ever get taxed.

 

 

This is another reason to get rich.

 

 

Why all these taxes? Because the government also must cover the poor/ middle class' demands of pension. While the rich take care of themselves, the poor/ middle class depend on the government to take care of them when they're no longer able to work.

 

 

The rich say to the government, "give the money to the people who need it."

The poor/ middle class say to the government with their URGENT SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY, "GIVE ME THE MONEY, I NEED IT NOW, NOT TOMORROW, NOW."

 

And people wonder why the government is harder on the poor/ middle class than on the rich. Without the rich people who provide jobs, there would have been no pension, heck there'd have been no jobs in the first place. This would have been a Depression era again.

 

 

Be rich, because you're able to provide for people (jobs). Do not depend on other people to give to you... when you say, "I'm entitled to my benefits, pensions, this this that, that this, this..." then you're no different than the poor/ middle class people. Truly rich people work for what they want in life, they work to get rich. They plant their seeds, water them, maintain, take good care of their "investments"... unlike most poor-middle class who want instant result today "I WANT IT NOW! WHY DON'T MY TREES GROW?", and they abandoned the seeds to die... the rich are patient to let the trees grow, even if it takes years... because they know at the end of it is riches and fruits. And once the tree is fully grown, they enjoy the fruits. And the poor/ middle class wonder why they never have their fully grown trees like the rich.

[Flash]

MB is spot on with that post.

 

There's a difference between being well-off and then being rich.

 

I also laughed at Fish's post about greed. So say I'm making around 150k a year, if I'm offered a job that pays 200k I shouldn't take it because that's me being greedy? It can't be that I want an even better life for me and my family? GTFOH.

[Flash]

No one blames rich people for anything, but is it to much to ask for them to give back to the country that gave them the opportunity in the first place.

 

They already give back more than anyone else does.

 

And judging by the rest of your post you make them sound like heartless bastards who don't care about anyone else. However, it'd be interesting to see the statistics of those people who give to charities and have their own foundations and see how much income they make per year.

[Nitro]

In other words, if you were poor/ middle class, pay your taxes.

 

Most do.

 

The rich say to the government, "give the money to the people who need it."

The poor/ middle class say to the government with their URGENT SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY, "GIVE ME THE MONEY, I NEED IT NOW, NOT TOMORROW, NOW."

 

This is so disgustingly misguided it isn't even funny. The rich say to the government, "Why should we pay higher taxes than those making hundreds of thousands of dollars less than us?" and the poor say, "Why should we pay the same % in taxes as those who can fully support themselves and then some after taxes, when we are living paycheck to paycheck working 60+ hour weeks?" It's basic human behavior. If the government allowed the poor to be taxed more than the rich, the rich would be ecstatic and wouldn't cause a fuss. The government has to be the arbitrator and decide what benefits society as a whole, and considering the VAST majority of this country is poor/middle class, that is why they pump money into pensions and such. If the poor/middle class stayed broke and in debt, then our economy will continue to faulter because no one would be spending money, thus effectively bankrupting major business after major business like is currently happening.

 

And people wonder why the government is harder on the poor/ middle class than on the rich. Without the rich people who provide jobs, there would have been no pension, heck there'd have been no jobs in the first place. This would have been a Depression era again.

 

 

Be rich, because you're able to provide for people (jobs). Do not depend on other people to give to you... when you say, "I'm entitled to my benefits, pensions, this this that, that this, this..." then you're no different than the poor/ middle class people. Truly rich people work for what they want in life, they work to get rich. They plant their seeds, water them, maintain, take good care of their "investments"... unlike most poor-middle class who want instant result today "I WANT IT NOW! WHY DON'T MY TREES GROW?", and they abandoned the seeds to die... the rich are patient to let the trees grow, even if it takes years... because they know at the end of it is riches and fruits. And once the tree is fully grown, they enjoy the fruits. And the poor/ middle class wonder why they never have their fully grown trees like the rich.

 

Without the working class, the millionaire CEO's would also be out of jobs.

 

And stop generalizing the working class as people who don't want to put forth the effort. Many lower/middle class people don't have the means to acquire an Ivy League degree. Not because they don't want it, but because they don't have the financial capabilities. Many students have to drop out of high school to help support their family, and without education you get NOWHERE in life. So, those people are forced to work dead end jobs and live paycheck to paycheck. Another factor in the whole education thing is that many schools, especially those in the inner-cities, don't teach the kids how to make it on their own or have a long-term plan. They teach the subjects...poorly, might I add...but don't teach the kids how to move out of the ghetto and make a career for themselves. That is why crime is so prevelant, because you make what you get off your own power. They know the chances of making it out of the hood with such limited resources is so slim that they shoot for what they know they can profit off of anytime.

[Flash]

It goes both ways though, yes the CEO's don't have the workforce without those willing to put in hard labor, but those workers don't have a job without that CEO. If those people don't want to work for the CEO then there's going to be people lining up to take those jobs because they need a paycheck and then those who left the job will be out there looking for work in a time where not many people are hiring.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Flash

[Flash]

And stop generalizing the working class as people who don't want to put forth the effort. Many lower/middle class people don't have the means to acquire an Ivy League degree. Not because they don't want it, but because they don't have the financial capabilities.

 

I agree with you there, but its undeniable that there's a rising sense of entitlement among the lower class in this country.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^To Nitro, without education you get nowhere in life? You might want to check on that... most self-made millionaires and billionaires like Gates, Dell are a college drop out.

 

In fact, studies say if you're a college drop out, you have a higher chance of being a mega/ ultra rich like those guys than if you're an MBA graduate.

 

This is because in school, students are taught to get a high paying job, long term security with benefits. The problem is you do NOT get super rich like they do via earned income through jobs. No earned income will make you a multi-millionaire/ billionaire... the only earned income that can make you that rich is if you happen to be a pro-athlete and play in a major sports league that pays you a mil or more annually.

 

 

 

There will always be employees... because the rate of poor/ middle class people will always outnumber the rich... because it is not easy to get rich. And when someone gets rich among the people, the people will demand that rich person to give them jobs, anyway.

 

 

On top of the jobs the rich provide, think about the items/ service they give to their customers. Whatever you see in front of you is the investment of rich people: your HDTV, your mobile phone, your laptop, internet (who here can live without OTR thesedays), Facebook (who can live without FB thesedays), your PS3, your car, your beds, your electricity, your water, your clothes, your foods... ALL are provided to you by the people who decide they want to serve the public and in doing so, putting themselves in the riches. It's us poor/ middle class who demand these items/ services so we can actually live in a civilized way, not in some jungle. People who step up and say, "I'll make a car for the public to use", "I'll provide electricity to the public", "I'll design some clothes for people to wear", "I'll entertain people with my acting" are the ones who put themselves in the riches because their mentality is to give (being generous), and not to demand. Face it, without the rich people who provide, we would have been living like those cavemen. We should be thankful to these rich geniuses not condemn them.

 

 

If you keep thinking about giving, instead of demanding, chances are you will be rich quicker than the ones who constantly demand. So if the government demands tax, pay it without complaining... pay it on the thinking that it will do other people and your country good. The people who keep complaining about everything in their life will never get out of poor/ middle class levels.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Multi-Billionaire

[Guru]

OMG. Stop bringing up the fact that Gates, Allen, Jobs, and Dell dropped out of college.

Most college drop outs don't [expletive]ing become billionaires. Sorry to bust your bubble.

And PLEASE link me to the study that shows you have a higher chance of being rich if you drop out. (MB)

I guarantee that 1) you just pulled that out of your [expletive], or 2) it isn't from a credible source.

[Flash]

MB putting in serious work in this thread right now. Not sure about those stats though but it would be interesting to see the numbers on that.

[Multi-Billionaire]

I forgot to add... there's also a higher chance of you becoming homeless if you drop out of college than those who graduate.

 

In other words, if you are a college graduate, chances of you being homeless is slim (unless you're [expletive]ed in the head), but you chances of you being uber super duper rich like Gates is likewise, slim... you will be average. Will you be secure? Yes, "security" is what they teach in school... but they never teach "how to be rich".

 

The guys who drop out of college, make their temporary defeat a burning motivation and determination, the guys who learn the "street smarts", are the ones who do better than the "book smarts".

 

 

Because once you get your incomes (be it earned, portfolio, passive), you will find the incomes are derived through jobs/ endeavors you do that have LITTLE TO NOTHING-TO-DO with the education you receive in college/ high school. Most are street smarts (how to negotiate with people and how you sell yourself), and your attitude to how you work with others and how you approach the work daily. Employers value these things WAY WAY WAY more than education when they hire employees. And if you want to become employers, you will also have to need to have gone through these before you actually learn how to "filter" people.

 

 

 

D-Trump (I almost said D-Wade lol)'s The Apprentice Season 3 was based on two groups: high school graduates and college graduates (go to 7:45 when the briefing begins):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbfDWXi5VYw

 

"Since going into the business world, the high school grads and the college grads have all been real superstars. But after I assembled the teams, I realized one of the groups makes more than three times the income the other group makes. Shockingly, it's the high school grads. These are real killers. Does this mean practical experience are more important than academic knowledge?."

 

 

These are based on 1,000,000 applicants for the show... it's a fact based on small sample that represent the large financial realities of not only USA but also the world.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Multi-Billionaire

[Lkr]

^To Nitro, without education you get nowhere in life? You might want to check on that... most self-made millionaires and billionaires like Gates, Dell are a college drop out.

What's funny is that Gates family was pretty well off when he was young. It is also interesting to note that back in the 70s and 80s, a degree was not needed in the computer industry, because they were the fathers of the industry. The only reason Gates got away with it is because he was ridiculously talented in math. He knew everything before it was being taught. If you think Gates could do the same thing in today's world, you are sadly mistaken.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Lkr

[Multi-Billionaire]

^How did Mark Zuckerberg recently get ridiculously rich by revolutionalizing a social network much in today's world? It's simple programming... btw.

 

Being rich is a person's choice.

 

They can choose to be rich, provide jobs for societies (give back), provide services to them, give thousands of dollars/ millions/ and in Warren Buffet/ Gates' case, billions to charities, and reap the fruits by playing golf/ on a yacht when "the society is depressed"...

 

Zuckerberg decided he wanted to create a social network that is highly accessible to people of all age (not just teens like MySpace), to private people, to businesses... and with easy-to-use and highly-interactive tools.

 

Or...

 

They can choose to be poor/ middle class... work 9-5 to pay bills (most to catch up with bills/ credit cards)... hate when they get taxed... and openly "hate" rich people's way of living (the people who give them jobs)... when deep down they say, "(sigh) I wish I were rich."

 

 

My point is, if you keep hating your current situations (tax, etc), then make a decision to get rich... and don't look back.

[Lkr]

Zuckerberg stole an idea. Zuckerberg also went to college and had a background in computer programming. He really didn't revolutionize it that much - most of the stuff on facebook HAD been done before, just not to the extent he did it. There is a difference between revolutionizing and inventing. Not to mention he had a decent background, once again, something that is almost required to get somewhere.

 

I don't see the points you are trying to make in this thread though. We are discussing US tax policy, not how to get rich

 

If it is so easy to become rich, why aren't you rich?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Lkr

[Check my Stats]

this is absurd.