What Are "Superstars"?

[The Lone Granger]

I've been thinking about this question for the last few days, and finally worked up the motivation to write an article about it. So often you hear a player referred to as a "superstar", but are the people using these terms correct in their wording? I would say that there are only a few superstars in this league,

 

Kobe Bryant

LeBron James

Dwyane Wade

Carmelo Anthony

Chris Paul

Deron Williams

Kevin Durant

 

Are a few of those who come to mind when I think of superstars. Now, those players that I've heard referred to as superstars are Joe Johnson, Danny Granger (as much as I'd like it to be the case he is not a superstar), Russell Westbrook, Chris Bosh, and many other as well. I personally don't see these guys as superstars at all. There is a group above all, including the above listed players (Durant, James, Wade) that I do consider superstars. The question I have, is how can you label the other guys superstars when all they do is score the ball. The reason that superstars are called superstars is because they are good at everything. Joe Johnson is a great player, and is a star (the level below super star), but he doesn't do enough of everything else to make that top tier. As for my favorite player Danny Granger, yet again he's a great scorer, but not that great at everything else.

 

So I just thought I'd write up this quick little piece about it, and see what you guys think. Who are the superstars in the NBA today? I would love to hear your thoughts about what players don't make the cut as well. Hope to get some responses to this!

 

Thoughts?

[moeroadkill]

you forgot/should add dwight howard to your list

well for me i have the superstars kobe, durant lebron etc. then stars who are guys like dirk, paul pierce JJ, granger etc... then allstars which are guys such as david lee, noah, lopez, westbrook and the list goes on and on

i consider a superstar that is able to carry his team or improve his team and have a dominate effect on games night in and out

[Real Deal]

Superstars are starting all-stars (deserving starting all-stars) that can lead a legitimate team to 50+ wins OR produce off-the-chart numbers (because I wouldn't leave out guys like Kobe, who were averaging 35 points on a 42-45 win team).

 

Players that you can build around and possibly win a championship with, or at least contend with.

 

Superstars (Kobe)

All-Stars (Gasol)

Borderline All-Stars (Odom)

Stars (Artest, Bynum)

Role players (Fisher, Blake)

[Make It Naaaashty]

One of the commentators for the Cavs considered Anderson Varejo as a superstar. lulz

[Amare320]

One of the commentators for the Cavs considered Anderson Varejo as a superstar. lulz

 

The Cavs commentators make me cringe.

[Check my Stats]

LBJ

Kobe

Wade

Chris Paul

[Poe]

JR Smith

Aaron Afflalo

Ty Lawson

[EastCoastNiner]

LBJ

Kobe

Wade

Deron Williams

 

I fixed it for you.

 

It really is absurd with the obsession people have with CP3.

[Check my Stats]

Stats don't lie. I am not really interested in having this debate with you again. Arguably inferior cast, still won comparable games, should have been the MVP 3 seasons ago, game changer on both sides of the ball.

 

Deron is sweet, but Chris Paul is a superstar.

[Real Deal]

I'd consider both CP3 and Deron superstars, actually.

[Nitro]

It really is absurd with the obsession people have with Deron Williams.

 

I fixed that for you. CP3 scores more on better efficiency than Williams, gets more assists with less turnovers, rebounds better, AND is a better defender. But because he was injured last season and they had a GREAT replacement in Collison who put up some stats (not wins, stats), he has been forgotten like Wade was before the Olympics. CP3 is the 4th best player in the league without a doubt IMO.

 

Anyway, I agree with Real Deal on the definition of superstar, and here's who I consider to be in that category...

 

Kobe, LeBron, Wade, CP3, Howard, Durant, Melo, Williams, Dirk, Nash

 

Some may disagree with Nash and Dirk, but every damn year their team's win 50+ games despite who their supporting cast is, both have MVP's, and both can dominate ball-games like only those other 8 guys can. When completely healthy, I think you can make a case for Yao being in that group as well. Amare, Bosh, Rose, Rondo, Gasol and those guys are on the next tier.

[Real Deal]

Kobe, LeBron, Wade, CP3, Howard, Durant, Melo, Williams, Dirk, Nash

Brandon Roy belongs on that list, in my opinion, if you add Williams. Roy is easily the third best two-guard in the NBA, and it's only because Kobe and Wade are on that list, and I would take Roy over Williams right now, if I'm being asked to build a franchise.

 

I'm not so sure about Nash. If you're adding him due to his impact on the offensive end, you have to stick Garnett on that list due to his impact on the defensive end (and because Howard is on that list as well).

 

Other than that, I agree.

[Nitro]

Brandon Roy belongs on that list, in my opinion, if you add Williams. Roy is easily the third best two-guard in the NBA, and it's only because Kobe and Wade are on that list, and I would take Roy over Williams right now, if I'm being asked to build a franchise.

 

Williams makes a bigger impact on the game than Roy, IMO. I posted in the Durant vs Roy a stat where Roy only had 7 30pt+ games last season, and that stat in a nutshell kinda reflect my view on Roy. He's a tremendous player, very consistent, very well-rounded...but I don't believe he's a guy that can dominate games on a consistent basis like D-Will can. Roy gets a little overhyped because of how wonderfully polished his game is, but in reality you get as much production out of him as you do Joe Johnson. Also, Williams has led a team to the WCF, and consistently gets his team out of the first round. Roy has a lot to prove in the post-season to be on that same level (although Roy did perform exceptionally well against Artest in the 2009 playoffs).

 

I'm not so sure about Nash. If you're adding him due to his impact on the offensive end, you have to stick Garnett on that list due to his impact on the defensive end (and because Howard is on that list as well).

 

I'm waiting to see more of KG this year before putting him back on the list. Besides PnR defense he was god-awful last season/post-season, especially on the boards which was a big surprise. If he proves he can get back to the level he was at before his injury in 2008-2009, he'd make my list easily.

[AboveLegit]

The media as a whole is much too quick to name someone a "Superstar". That is someone, IMO, who transcends the game in someway. They have a serious playoff history and have proven themselves.

 

Kobe

LeBron

Wade

CP3

D-Will

Durant

Dwight

Melo

 

I'm considering placing Brandon Roy in this list, but I think I'll wait till the season is over before calling him one.

[Nitro]

The media as a whole is much too quick to name someone a "Superstar". That is someone, IMO, who transcends the game in someway. They have a serious playoff history and have proven themselves.

 

Out of curiousity, why doesn't Dirk or Nash make your list if that's your definition? They have serious playoff history, have MVP's, and really are still arguably at the top of their games.

[Check my Stats]

You can't just dominate one side of the ball and be a superstar.

 

Just like Durant and Melo, they are probably the two best scorers in the league, but if they aren't scoring, how are they helping you win? Players like LBJ, Kobe, Paul, Wade, they all find other ways to make a major impact.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Check my Stats

[Real Deal]

I can't put Roy and Johnson in the same sentence, never.

 

Roy shoots 47-48% from the floor, can put up over 20 PPG, 5 APG and 4-5 RPG, and Bryant acknowledges that he's the absolute toughest player to defend in the league...and Ron Artest said the same exact thing two years back (and after Roy averaged 27 against him, it makes sense).

 

I'm inclined to believe that if Roy had better players than just Aldridge (you know, like Boozer, a load of talented defenders, and a big center that can shoot and give you 17 PPG), he would've gotten out of the first as well. In Deron's first season, Boozer and Okur were tearing up opposing teams, and Kirilenko was a top defender in the NBA.

 

I'm not going to say Roy is a better offensive player, but if you stick the pieces around him, he would accomplish almost as much as Deron Williams has with his team.

 

In a few years, I think Roy will prove to be the better player, but that's really not the discussion right now, and that's strictly based on potential.

[Lone Wolf]

One of the commentators for the Cavs considered Anderson Varejo as a superstar. lulz

Who's Varejo?

[fish7718]

A superstar is a player who can be the centerpiece on a championship team

 

5 superstars in the NBA

 

Kobe

Wade

LeBron

Paul

Durant

 

/thread

[AboveLegit]

Out of curiousity, why doesn't Dirk or Nash make your list if that's your definition? They have serious playoff history, have MVP's, and really are still arguably at the top of their games.

The same reason why Brandon has Pau Gasol listed as an all star. He just simply isn't there completely. At this point, I don't consider Dirk even better than Pau, so there's no reason for me to call him a superstar.

 

As for Nash, I guess you could make the case for him, but does he really dominate games?

[Nitro]

I can't put Roy and Johnson in the same sentence, never.

 

Roy shoots 47-48% from the floor, can put up over 20 PPG, 5 APG and 4-5 RPG, and Bryant acknowledges that he's the absolute toughest player to defend in the league...and Ron Artest said the same exact thing two years back (and after Roy averaged 27 against him, it makes sense).

 

I agree that he's without a doubt a better player than Johnson (because he's so polished he's capable of adjusting his game to what the defense gives him in the playoffs, unlike $JJ), but I think Roy is a lot closer to $JJ than Wade, Bryant, James, Melo, Durant, CP3, Williams or Nash. As I said, he's insanely polished, has a high basketball IQ, and is very consistent with his 20/5/5. But, do I trust him to single-handedly win and dominate ball games on a consistent basis like all those other guys do/can? No, and I think that's what separates a superstar from all-star. It's why I'd still rank a guy like the 2007-2008 T-Mac over Roy (despite the poor shooting percentages).

 

I'm inclined to believe that if Roy had better players than just Aldridge (you know, like Boozer, a load of talented defenders, and a big center that can shoot and give you 17 PPG), he would've gotten out of the first as well. In Deron's first season, Boozer and Okur were tearing up opposing teams, and Kirilenko was a top defender in the NBA.

 

C'mon now. I do think Roy has the potential to make noise in the playoffs as a first option, but don't downplay the talent he has had around him. In the 2009 post-season he had a healthy Oden, Aldridge, Blake, Outlaw, Rudy, Przybella, etc.... That is certainly a collection of quality role players who can score and defend. Last season Williams dominated against the Nuggets, averaging 24/10, and led that team without Okur or Kirilenko to a convincing series win.

 

And I am not saying Roy CAN'T do some of the thing Williams has in the post-season, but until he proves it, I can't put him in the discussion with the other 10 guys I mentioned, who are clearly better statistically AND have serious post-season experience.

 

In a few years, I think Roy will prove to be the better player, but that's really not the discussion right now, and that's strictly based on potential.

 

Doubt it. Roy has already just about maximized his skillset, and his IQ is as good as it gets. He's also already 26-27 years old. The only thing that would raise his level of play is added athleticism.

[Nitro]

The same reason why Brandon has Pau Gasol listed as an all star. He just simply isn't there completely. At this point, I don't consider Dirk even better than Pau, so there's no reason for me to call him a superstar.

 

The difference is Dirk has proven himself as a #1 option time and time again. He's led teams to the Finals and deep into the post-season, every year his team is elite, and he puts up great stats. Gasol never proved himself as a #1 option, and never even won a playoff game as a 1st option (including when he put up a horrible series as Dirk torched the Grizz). Dirk is an incredible scorer, is a very underrated rebounder and passer, decent defender, and is an elite clutch player.

 

As for Nash, I guess you could make the case for him, but does he really dominate games

 

I'd say so. He is disgustingly efficient as a scorer, can score at volume (i.e 20-25PPG), he's still IMO the best pure playmaker in the game, and he's also one of the best clutch performers in the league. When Amare went down for a year and Joe Johnson left, the team still made the WCF on his back. Every year, no matter his teammates or coach, the Suns win 50+ games and tend to go deep in the post-season, with the one constant being Steve Nash. I don't see how a 2x MVP who is still at the top of his game can't be considered a superstar.

[Real Deal]

In the 2009 post-season he had a healthy Oden, Aldridge, Blake, Outlaw, Rudy, Przybella, etc.... That is certainly a collection of quality role players who can score and defend. Last season Williams dominated against the Nuggets, averaging 24/10, and led that team without Okur or Kirilenko to a convincing series win.

True, except you made a mistake bringing up what Williams did against Denver, because as you noted earlier, Roy dominated the Rockets, who also had Yao Ming (who you consider a superstar), Shane Battier and Ron Artest (two of the best perimeter defenders in the league at that time), Aaron Brooks, Luis Scola and Carl Landry. Oden racked up 27 fouls in those six games, wasn't even pulling down boards, so I don't consider him much of an asset in that series. Outlaw was absolute trash...and it's not like those two were making up for it with their defense, either. Even Fernandez was bad on the offensive end, and we know he doesn't play defense.

[AboveLegit]

Every announcer, trainer or scout says Roy has a deceptive quickness. The thing is, Roy is fast with his dribble and moves, but he only does it in bursts. Could he play fast all the time, I don't know. Roy can beat anyone though, he looks like he is just lazing his way up the court then suddenly his after burners are on and he's weaving his way through four defenders. He hesitates and makes defenders second guess before he exploits whatever they do wrong. I don't know if he could always play fast, probably, but he'd probably have more turn overs and more points, especially ft's. I like his style though, and how he doesn't have a big ego. He is all about the team, kind of like a Duncan SG personality. I think he belongs in the top, if that is top 10 or top 15 in the league, its still the top. He is one of the premier players in the league, I just wonder if he'd make way more money outside of Portland and, with a different coach and philosophy (pushing Roy to always attack), if he would have a dramatic improvement. I wonder if Roy and Aldridge have progressed as far as they can under Nate.

 

He shot 400 less shots then Kobe 2 years ago, and 200 less 3 pointers. If you put those numbers in for Roy, at his same %, he'd be scoring 26+ points a game, not counting the extra FT's he'd get with said attempts. Part of that is Roy wanting to give his team shots, some reluctance, but a lot is coaching. If he was on a different team, where they wanted the game to run through him, with a coach like Jackson, Riley or Saunders, I think his scoring would sore.

[AboveLegit]

The difference is Dirk has proven himself as a #1 option time and time again. He's led teams to the Finals and deep into the post-season, every year his team is elite, and he puts up great stats. Gasol never proved himself as a #1 option, and never even won a playoff game as a 1st option (including when he put up a horrible series as Dirk torched the Grizz). Dirk is an incredible scorer, is a very underrated rebounder and passer, decent defender, and is an elite clutch player.

But as a first option currently, he got bounced in the first round. When you take away his shot or when he's having an off game, he's pretty ineffective if you ask me. Maybe that's more of a testament to his playing style, but nonetheless, he doesn't do much.

 

And I'm not going to sit here and underplay his performance in the playoffs, he played well and his teammates didn't show up, but regardless we're acting as if he's consistently getting far in the playoffs. Just look at the Mavs the past few years in the playoffs:

 

2010: First round (4-2)

2009: Second round (4-1)

2008: First round (4-1)

2007: First round (4-2)

2006: Finals (4-2)- Which I have openly said before that the Mavs got robbed big time and should have won the series, but that's a whole different debate.

 

To put it simply, he has been to the WCF twice, and while he has had the consistency in the regular season, it hasn't exactly translated well in May/June.