trutrojan8 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hit his 500th double today. Sick. .320 career average, 320 home runs, and 500 doubles. The list?GehrigTed WilliamsMusialRuthHelton I'm new to baseball, were those other players any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hit his 500th double today. Sick. .320 career average, 320 home runs, and 500 doubles. The list?GehrigTed WilliamsMusialRuthHelton I'm new to baseball, were those other players any good? No they all sucked. None could sniff Helton's jock strap, duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 lmao maybe Ryan Howard can catch Reggie Jackson's infamous 2597 strikeouts by the time he's 36. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 lmao maybe Ryan Howard can catch Reggie Jackson's infamous 2597 strikeouts by the time he's 36. way to say something not related to the topic even a little bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hit his 500th double today. Sick. .320 career average, 320 home runs, and 500 doubles. The list?GehrigTed WilliamsMusialRuthHelton I'm new to baseball, were those other players any good? I'll try and make a list of ball-parks that make a player as much as Coors Field. Never mind, I can't find any. Just look at Matt Holliday! LOL!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 home- 881 games, .360 average, .458 OBP, .646 SLG, 196 HR, 702 RBI, 267 doublesaway- 867 games, .295 average, .395 OBP, .494 SLG, 124 HR, 472 RBI, 232 doubles so i was gonna say how the stadium has an impact, but its less then you think, but i don't think i can really make that argument after those stats lmao he is still a great player though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 home- 881 games, .360 average, .458 OBP, .646 SLG, 196 HR, 702 RBI, 267 doublesaway- 867 games, .295 average, .395 OBP, .494 SLG, 124 HR, 472 RBI, 232 doubles so i was gonna say how the stadium has an impact, but its less then you think, but i don't think i can really make that argument after those stats lmao he is still a great player though Those stats aren't that close. He's batting 65 percentage points worse on the road, and that's a LOT, his .OBP is lower, slugging is much worse, the HR's are less, the RBI's are SIGNIFICANTLY less, and his double's are less..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yeah, he's obviously better at home, but nonetheless it's a great feat the only the elites in the game have captured before him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 lmao maybe Ryan Howard can catch Reggie Jackson's infamous 2597 strikeouts by the time he's 36. I guess your sarcasm detector is a bit off. Anywho, Helton is a very good player who has had a very good career, but as ECN said, he benefited GREATLY from playing at Coors. Coors is a doubles paradise. He clearly can hit no matter where he plays, but the park factor definitely has helped him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm not saying he isn't a good hitter, but I don't put him on the same level of players like Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, Albert Pujols, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm not saying he isn't a good hitter, but I don't put him on the same level of players like Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, Albert Pujols, ect.Why not? Regardless of what park he plays in, he still hits for a .320 average yearly, while A-Fraud can't even hit .250 this year. Oh, and Helton does it without steroids. 66% of those players can't say the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Why not? Regardless of what park he plays in, he still hits for a .320 average yearly, while A-Fraud can't even hit .250 this year. Oh, and Helton does it without steroids. 66% of those players can't say the same. First of all, don't even bring up the steroid thing. Other than a few cases it is impossible to prove with anybody, so bringing it up in an argument like this does absolutely nothing except show that you are grasping for anything to help your case. I do not think anybody here could honestly tell you that Todd Helton is not a very good Major League player, however even the most blindly biased Rockies fans should be able to see the impact Coors Field had on his career. You don't just hit 65 points higher at home than on the road by accident. So, very good player, yes, elite player, no. Even disregarding the home/road splits his numbers are very good, but you need to consider that when comparing him with the all time greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yes I agree with you that Helton's career is much better at Coors. Also, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he took roids, he hit something like 49 home runs in 2001 in between 30ish home run seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 i hate people who think that a player is on roids just because they hit a lot of home runs. i guess that is just the era we are in, but it gets really annoying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 i hate people who think that a player is on roids just because they hit a lot of home runs. i guess that is just the era we are in, but it gets really annoyingAlright, so you don't think these home run stats are a little artificial? 10232657282617 Nothing wrong with that, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Alright, so you don't think these home run stats are a little artificial? 10232657282617 Nothing wrong with that, right? Obviously there will always be the people like you who assume that numbers like that are a result of steroids. They very well could be, but unless it is proven there is no purpose to argue over it. Baseball is a funny game and statistical anomalies like that do happen. It is very convenient to say "oh he MUST have been doing something illegal", but it gets annoying as hell when every statistical spike nowadays gets attributed to steroids by the fans/media. That is the age in which we live though, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Obviously there will always be the people like you who assume that numbers like that are a result of steroids. They very well could be, but unless it is proven there is no purpose to argue over it. Baseball is a funny game and statistical anomalies like that do happen. It is very convenient to say "oh he MUST have been doing something illegal", but it gets annoying as hell when every statistical spike nowadays gets attributed to steroids by the fans/media. That is the age in which we live though, unfortunately.You can't honestly look at those numbers, and say, "Well he must have worked REALLY EFFING HARD in that off season!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Obviously there will always be the people like you who assume that numbers like that are a result of steroids. They very well could be, but unless it is proven there is no purpose to argue over it. Baseball is a funny game and statistical anomalies like that do happen. It is very convenient to say "oh he MUST have been doing something illegal", but it gets annoying as hell when every statistical spike nowadays gets attributed to steroids by the fans/media. That is the age in which we live though, unfortunately. I agree with this post, and lets face the facts, many of the best players have used them, and many of our own favorite players have used them. I can play this game to. 1998- 251999- 352000- 422001- 492002- 302003- 332004- 322005- 202006- 152007- 172008- 7 2009- 11 See, I'm going to play the assumption game. This player went up in HR's from 1998-2001, until it leveled out for a few years. Then, when there was testing in 2004, the numbers went down substantially. However, people who like this player will use missed games as an excuse, but I think they were caused by injuries. JUICER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) You can't honestly look at those numbers, and say, "Well he must have worked REALLY EFFING HARD in that off season!" And until you see legitimate evidence of a positive drug test, you cannot honestly look at those numbers and say "he absolutely used steroids". These steroid allegations flying around the media/with the fans is probably what I dislike the most about baseball right now. Edited July 23, 2009 by Phightins09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 And until you see legitimate evidence of a positive drug test, you cannot honestly look at those numbers and say "he absolutely used steroids". These steroid allegations flying around the media/with the fans is probably what I dislike the most about baseball right now.There's no for sure way to know, but it's somewhat obvious he didn't get those numbers by eating his Wheaties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 ecn, who was the player whos stats you listed? or did you make them up lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 home- 881 games, .360 average, .458 OBP, .646 SLG, 196 HR, 702 RBI, 267 doublesaway- 867 games, .295 average, .395 OBP, .494 SLG, 124 HR, 472 RBI, 232 doubles so i was gonna say how the stadium has an impact, but its less then you think, but i don't think i can really make that argument after those stats lmao he is still a great player though LOL OWNED!!!! That is a huge difference wow. I had no idea the park had that much of an impact. Putting Helton in a class of players like that is absolute horse [expletive]. Isn't even batting .300 in his career on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trutrojan8 Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 LOL OWNED!!!! That is a huge difference wow. I had no idea the park had that much of an impact. Putting Helton in a class of players like that is absolute horse [expletive]. Isn't even batting .300 in his career on the road.omg Pujols is batting .304 on the road, he [expletive]ing sucks.A-Rod is batting under .300 on the road, he sucksBerkman is way under .300, he should be in AAAMiguel Cabrera is under .300, he sucks Helton isn't batting .300 for his CAREER on the road. Regardless of where you play, batting .300 at anytime in your career is great. Doing it your entire career is even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 ecn, who was the player whos stats you listed? or did you make them up lol Those are Todd Helton's career HR total's, without his first season where he didn't play many games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastNiner Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I think Todd Helton is a good player, but I just don't put him in the same class as Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez, A-Rod, and other great players, regardless of steroid use. Alright, these are the following stats for a certain player, whose team I will not tell you, and I want you to tell me if his batting average is not SUBSTANTIALLY higher at home than on the road. 2004: Home: .338 Away: .240 2005: Home: .357 Away: .256 2006: Home: .373 Away: .280 2007: Home: .376 Away: .301 2008: Home: .332 Away: .308 I'm sure someone can do some research and find out who this player is, but these batting averages for when this player plays at home and on the road are SUBSTANTIALLY different. Tell me if you disagree, but I doubt you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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