Raptors Tanking/Draft Anticipation

[Built Ford Tough]

    NBA         W   L   PCT     GB
1   Cleveland   11  48  .186    ----
2   Minnesota   14  46  .233     2.5
3   Sacramento  14  43  .246     4.0
4   Washington  15  43  .259     4.5
5   Toronto     16  44  .267     4.5
6   New Jersey  17  42  .288     6.0
7   LA Clippers 21  39  .350     9.5
8   Detroit     22  39  .361    10.0
9   Milwaukee   22  36  .379    11.5
10  Charlotte   26  33  .441    15.0

 

Found this on RealGM.

 

That win against Minnesota earlier in the season really screwed the Raps tank up. If they would've lost that game like they should've, they would be tied for 2nd right now instead of tied for 5th.

[Check my Stats]

I figure we'll shut Bargs down with about 10 games left in the season so we'll be aight.

[Buckets!]

Kyrie Irving, Perry Jones or Terrence Jones. Probably only 3 players I want.

[Built Ford Tough]

Kyrie Irving, Perry Jones or Terrence Jones. Probably only 3 players I want.

 

Switch Perry Jones with Harrison Barnes and add Jonas Valanciunas (depending on how he does during workouts and what not) and that is pretty much what my draft board looks like. Irving is definitely number one (if you were around earlier you would've constantly saw me raving about him), but I wouldn't be heartbroken if the Raptors managed to grab Barnes either. I still think he is going to be a good player in this league, and I really like his game alongside DeRozan's as worst case scenario he becomes a Shane Battier type of player (good to great defender and a reliable shooter from deep on offense). Those two attributes would be nice alongside DeRozan's limited perimeter game and poor defensive ability.

 

I know Jones (Perry) has the potential to be the best player in this draft and all, but I honestly want the Raptors to stay away from him. If they want to take a chance on a project I'd rather them go after Valanciunas just because of the fact that I think he has the ability to become a great defensive center. He would be last on my list of the four guys I mentioned above, but something about him definitely intrigues me.

 

Things will definitely change as we get closer to the draft, especially with March Madness right around the corner and then workouts/combine stuff not long after that.

 

EDIT: By the way, Sacramento lost tonight, so the Raptors are now tied with them for the 4th worst record in the league (Washington lost tonight, putting them a half game ahead in the race for worst).

Edited March 1, 2011 by Built Ford Tough

[Built Ford Tough]

Interesting note on Jonas Valanciunas:

 

ChristopheEPcom

RT @inthegamebasket: The percentage of shots Valanciunas rebounds is right on the level of K.Love and D.Howard's numbers in NBA,over 20%.

 

I know it may not go over well with Raptor fans if they pick a project center from Europe considering Bargnani and all, but at this point in time, I honestly think that I would put him in my top 3 for the Raptors, right behind Kyrie and Barnes. I think that if he reaches his potential that he can become an absolute beast on the defensive end with his athletic ability, length and size. If the Raptors miss out on Barnes and Irving, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a chance on him at all depending on how he does in workouts. It would basically ensure another top pick for the Raptors as well, considering he won't come in and turn this team around immediately like Irving has a chance to do (although I don't think he will).

 

Speaking of Valanciunas, his team was eliminated from Euroleague play today. He had 9 points on 4/5 shooting, 11 boards and a block.

 

Jan Vesely, another highly touted European prospect, also played his last Euroleague game today as Partizan Belgrade didn't make the playoffs. He went out with a bang, though, as he put up 23 points on 9/12 shooting (2-4 from three) and 6 rebounds.

 

I'm just excited to see how the tourmanet shakes up the draft board. Part of me is hoping that a guy like Terrence Jones dominates in the tournament because for some reason I think the Raptors are going to go on a bit of a run and completely ruin their draft stock. If somebody like Jones has an awesome tournament it may vault him over Barnes and allow the Raptors to draft him at around 6th or 7th or something like that.

[Built Ford Tough]

Some updates from today as some top prospects had some very nice games in their respective tournaments.

 

Harrison Barnes put up:

 

18 points

5 rebounds

2 assists

7-13 shooting

4-10 from three

 

in UNC's 61-59 win over Miami (Fla.) UNC were down by 15 at one point, so it was a nice comeback win for the team. Barnes basically kept them in the game during the first half where he scored 16 of the teams first 28 points and then his teammates stepped it up in the 2nd half.

 

(John Henson had 10/14/4 blocks as well, but he isn't really on the Raptors radar, I would imagine).

 

Jared Sulling had:

 

20 points

18 rebounds

2-12 shooting

16-18 free throw shootin

 

in OSU's 67-61 OT win over Northwestern

 

(These numbers are from CBSSports, so if they are a bit off, as they have been from time to time, I apologize)

 

 

Kentucky, Texas, UCONN and Kansas all play later today, so if anybody has nothing to do and want to catch some college ball to see some solid prospects (such as Knight, Walker, T. Jones, Selby, Morris, Hamilton etc...) and Canadian content (CoJo and Thompson) it should be a good day for you. Duke also plays, but I'm pretty sure most of you are like me in not giving a damn about them since Irving went down.

 

EDIT: Also, here is an interesting piece on Perry Jones:

 

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

 

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, "Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment."

 

(found this on RealGM and couldn't find a link)

 

EDIT:

 

DX also updated their, mock. I posted about it in the Draft Forum, but I figure I'll post it here as well.

 

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

Edited March 11, 2011 by Built Ford Tough

[Buckets!]

IDK which player to get, IDK which position is our weakness, maybe the SF or SG.

[Built Ford Tough]

IDK which player to get, IDK which position is our weakness, maybe the SF or SG.

 

Why shooting guard? Shooting guard and power forward are about the only positions that the Raptors shouldn't look at in the draft (unless the player is undoubtedly the BPA, but this draft is such a toss up that probably won't happen). The Raptors definitely need to look for either a PG, SF or C. Since this draft is basically a one trick pony when it comes to point guard (Kyrie Irving) and it is highly unlikely that they will be able to draft him, they should probably look to either a small forward or a center, which this draft has a fair amount of.

[Built Ford Tough]

Barnes with a nice crossover bringing the ball up in transition. Guy was pressing him from three quarter court got to half and set him up nicely for the crossover which led to a floater in the lane that rimmed out.

 

He also had a nice layup where he went up, hung in the air and abosrbed contact.

 

He has 12 of the Tar Heels 16 points as he just drained another 3 with a hand in his face.

 

The Heels need somebody else to step up, though. Barnes is the only guy doing anything on offense and they are down 25-16 (18 now). Seems almost identical to yesterdays game.

 

Terrence Jones and Brandon Knight are struggling tos tart of UK's game. Jones has 2 points and nothing else, while Knight has 0 points on 0-4 shooting (does have 2 boards and 2 assists, though).

 

EDIT: Barnes with a very impressive finish on the ally oop. The pass was thrown way too high, but he managed to use his length to get a hand on it and still finish it by sheer luck more than anything. The ball basically slipped out of his hands and still managed to go through.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Built Ford Tough

[Built Ford Tough]

Barnes with 16 points and 2 boards on 6-9 shooting (2-3 from deep) in the first half.

 

The rest of the Heels? 3-14 for 12 points.

 

This game is eerily similar to yesterdays. Should be interesting to see if UNC can come back from another double digit half time defecit and pick up the win. Should also be interesting to see if Barnes can continue his hot shooting in the 2nd half as he played like this in the first half yesterday, (had 16 points in fact) but finished with only 18, although the rest of the team stepped it up in the 2nd.

 

As for specific comments on Barnes' play, other than the ones in my above post, he also had:

 

- A nice dribble move for a step back jumper. He missed the jumper, but he tracked down his own offensive rebound just above the foul line, took 2 hard dribbles and finished with a layup.

 

- Got double teamed and turned into the help defender, which forced a turnover. He seemed a bit surprised by the double and didn't react in time to it.

 

- Lost his man on a screen that led to a wide open three for Clemson.

 

- Fought through a double screen on the baseline to get a hand in his mans face, but he still drained the shot.

 

- Ran his man off of a Henson screen beautifully, which made the Clemson defender cheat his way and allowed Marshall to get into the paint and find Zeller for an easy layup at the end of the half

 

I haven't really noticed anything about his straight up man to man defense, which could be a good thing as you normally only notice the mistakes. A large part of that probably has to do with the fact that Clemson hasn't seemed to really look to whoever Barnes is guarding for offense, so he hasn't really been put into many one on one defensive situations.

[Built Ford Tough]

Barnes with a huge three pointer with about a minute left to make it a 2 point game, then the Heels forced a 35 second violation. Zeller hits a hook to tie it up and Clemson misses the potential game winner. Game is now in OT.

 

Henson and Zeller really came alive in the 2nd half, so Barnes wasn't forced to carry the offense like he did in the first half. He still has 26 points on very good efficiency, though. I'll post more detailed breakdown after the game finishes.

[Doc]

I'm really hoping for Barnes if we don't get the first pick. I'm not really sure for this draft just because it is so weak.

[Buckets!]

So Irving,Barnes, Center.

 

I don't want Perry Jones, he seems like PF more than SF.

 

IDK who to take.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Buckets!

[Built Ford Tough]

So Barnes just set an ACC record for most points by a freshman in the ACC tournament. He finished the game with 40 points (12-17 from the field, 6-8 from three and 10-11 from the line) including 14 in overtime. He pretty much won UNC the game in that overtime as he hit two big threes, converted on a 3 point play and went 5-6 from the line at the end of the game to ice it. He also had 8 rebounds (4 offensive) and was crucial in causing that 35 second violation at the end of regulation that allowed the Tar Heels to tie the game.

 

I liked the fact that he was at his best when his team needed him the most. He did almost all of his damage in the first quarter, where everybody else on the team played very poorly, and down the stretch of the 2nd half and in overtime. He seemed to always make the big shot that either sparked a UNC run, put an end to a Clemson run or late in the game. He did most of his work wtih the jumper, coming off of screens and squaring up or using one or two hard dribbles and pulling up. He had a few drives, but for the most part, he looked uncomfortable when he was forced to create off of the bounce for more than 2 or 3 dribbles. He definitely needs to work on that area of his game

 

It is understandable that he needs work on his ability to drive to the rim considering he was a post player for most his time in high school and just recently made the transition to the perimeter (I think he was playing in the post up until his senior year of high school, unless I'm thinking of somebody else). He will probably never become elite at creating his own offense but if all the positives that everybody has said about his work ethic and just the way that he carries himself on the court, I think that he will eventually develop the ability to at least be able to create his own offense well enough that teams will have to respect that part of his game.

 

Defensively, I was really impressed with how well he moves his feet and doesn't reach. He got switched onto Clemson's point guard/shooting guard a couple of times and did a very nice job of moving his feet and using his length to keep him in good defensive position. He lost his man a few times off the ball which resulted in some open threes. This was a bit worrisome, but he most of the time he lost him because he was overhelping on dribble penetration (one specific play I remember was Marshall got beat and then Barnes rotated over even though Zeller was already there, which resulted in a made three) rather than a lack of defensive awareness.

 

Really though, outside of a few defensive lapses and a few turnovers from poor handles or a lack of awareness where the double teamw as coming from, this was pretty close to a perfect game for Barnes. I'm a bit worried that he is going to increase his draft stock substantially during the tournament and will be out of reach by the time the Raptors are picking. He has already had two great games in the ACC tournament and people are absolutely gushing about his game today, already.

[Buckets!]

So I guess Barnes is the choice.

[Built Ford Tough]

So I guess Barnes is the choice.

 

Way too early to tell. If Irving is gone, Barnes would be my next choice at this point in time, but who knows what will happen in the 3 months between now and the draft. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to drafting him, but it is too early to say difinitively that he should be their pick.

 

For anybody that is interested, since Marshall was inserted into the starting lineup and Carolina's season turned around, Barnes is averaging:

 

19.6/6.4/1.4 with 1.4 steals, .5 blocks. 47% FG, 38% 3pt, 81% FT in 30.7 minutes.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Built Ford Tough

[Buckets!]

Way too early to tell. If Irving is gone, Barnes would be my next choice at this point in time, but who knows what will happen in the 3 months between now and the draft. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to drafting him, but it is too early to say difinitively that he should be their pick.

 

For anybody that is interested, since Marshall was inserted into the starting lineup and Carolina's season turned around, Barnes is averaging:

 

19.6/6.4/1.4 with 1.4 steals, .5 blocks. 47% FG, 38% 3pt, 81% FT in 30.7 minutes.

If Raptors draft Barnes, wouldn't that take away shots from DeRozan.

[Built Ford Tough]

If Raptors draft Barnes, wouldn't that take away shots from DeRozan.

 

Not really. I think it would actually help DeRozan's game.

 

Barnes is primarily a shotoer right now and, assuming he continues to shot at a near 40% clip from downtown, he would force defenses to cover him from behind the arc, which would open up room for DeRozan to get off his mid range jumpers and attack the rim. Barnes is a shooter while DeRozan is more of a slasher, so their offensive strengths would compliment each other really well.

 

In addition to that, Barnes projects to be a solid defender as well, which would help out DeRozan who is below average in that area of the game. Barnes would matchup with the better of the two perimeter offensive players while DeRozan would be able to guard the lesser of the two. Barnes is also a solid rebounder which will help the team and put less pressure on DeRozan to help out on the glass., which could allow him to leak out more and look to get in transition, which is the best part of his game.

 

The pair of them would be a very nice complimentary duo. The biggest downside would be that neither one of them are very good at creating their own offense (at least as of now) and this would put a lot of pressure on the Raptors point guards to create. Really though, is this anything new? The Raptors haven't had a perimeter player who has been able to consistently create his own offense since Carter left anyways.

[Buckets!]

Not really. I think it would actually help DeRozan's game.

 

Barnes is primarily a shotoer right now and, assuming he continues to shot at a near 40% clip from downtown, he would force defenses to cover him from behind the arc, which would open up room for DeRozan to get off his mid range jumpers and attack the rim. Barnes is a shooter while DeRozan is more of a slasher, so their offensive strengths would compliment each other really well.

 

In addition to that, Barnes projects to be a solid defender as well, which would help out DeRozan who is below average in that area of the game. Barnes would matchup with the better of the two perimeter offensive players while DeRozan would be able to guard the lesser of the two. Barnes is also a solid rebounder which will help the team and put less pressure on DeRozan to help out on the glass., which could allow him to leak out more and look to get in transition, which is the best part of his game.

 

The pair of them would be a very nice complimentary duo. The biggest downside would be that neither one of them are very good at creating their own offense (at least as of now) and this would put a lot of pressure on the Raptors point guards to create. Really though, is this anything new? The Raptors haven't had a perimeter player who has been able to consistently create his own offense since Carter left anyways.

Great, Raps are prob going to get top 3 pick so Barnes will probably be available, this would be a sick duo. It would be like TMAC + VC. Except little worse.

[Built Ford Tough]

Great, Raps are prob going to get top 3 pick so Barnes will probably be available, this would be a sick duo. It would be like TMAC + VC. Except little worse.

 

Top 3 pick seems a bit optimistic to me. They are looking more likely to end up around 5th, unless they get some luck in the lottery.

 

They certainly won't catch Cleveland and it is looking likely that they won't finish worse than Sacramento either. That puts them in a best case scenario (barring winning the lotto) of finishing 3rd. Even then, they are a game up on Washington as of right now and are about 2.5 up on Minnesota, so I think it is safe to say that they won't finish worse than Minny, which puts them at 4.

 

So unless they get some luck in the lottery, the best I see them picking would be 4th, 5th being more likely and worst case scenario would be 6th, as I don't see two teams below them moving up into the top 3.

 

Barnes would definitely be available if the Raptors move into the top 3 (unless he goes nuts in the tournament or has off the char workouts), but I'm not too sure if he will still be there at 5th.

[Buckets!]

Top 3 pick seems a bit optimistic to me. They are looking more likely to end up around 5th, unless they get some luck in the lottery.

 

They certainly won't catch Cleveland and it is looking likely that they won't finish worse than Sacramento either. That puts them in a best case scenario (barring winning the lotto) of finishing 3rd. Even then, they are a game up on Washington as of right now and are about 2.5 up on Minnesota, so I think it is safe to say that they won't finish worse than Minny, which puts them at 4.

 

So unless they get some luck in the lottery, the best I see them picking would be 4th, 5th being more likely and worst case scenario would be 6th, as I don't see two teams below them moving up into the top 3.

 

Barnes would definitely be available if the Raptors move into the top 3 (unless he goes nuts in the tournament or has off the char workouts), but I'm not too sure if he will still be there at 5th.

TANK TANK TANK! I don't think I should watch Raps games anymore since they're in losing mode. JUST TANK TANK TANK! Get Harrison Barnes and sign Marc Gasol or Al Jefferson. Calderon-DeRozan-Barnes-Bargs-M.Gasol/Jefferson = SICK!

[Built Ford Tough]

TANK TANK TANK! I don't think I should watch Raps games anymore since they're in losing mode. JUST TANK TANK TANK! Get Harrison Barnes and sign Marc Gasol or Al Jefferson. Calderon-DeRozan-Barnes-Bargs-M.Gasol/Jefferson = SICK!

 

Al Jefferson isn't a free agent.

 

Here is an article from Frank Zicarelli saying that he believes Barnes would be a nice fit with the Raptors:

 

As March Madness tips off, the maddening process of projecting college players into pro prospects begins. No player will be watched closely than North Carolina’s Harrison Barnes, a freshman small forward who is as electric as any wing in the NCAA. If this kid comes out of school and if the Raptors somehow win the lottery, he’d be the perfect face for a faceless franchise. Imagine the possibilities with Barnes, Ed Davis and DeMar DeRozan. Heck, the Raptors may even do what this space has been pining for: Trade Andrea Bargnani

 

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/basketball/2011/03/14/17613211.html

 

I agree with the thought of Barnes being a nice fit on the Raptors, but if they win the lottery and take Barnes instead of Irving, that would be brutal. As much as I like Barnes and think he will be a great fit on the Raptors, Irving is a better fit for the Raptors and has more star potential than Harrison does. Barnes would be a nice consolation prize, but he is not the main prize of this draft. That is Kyrie Irving.

 

EDIT: Givony (Draft Express) is going to have a detailed scouting report on Barnes up on DX soon.

 

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony

 

Coming later today: Big thorough scouting report of Harrison Barnes' strengths and weaknesses, including video breakdown

 

This was from David Thorpe's chat:

 

Ryan (St Louis)

 

Who's game does Harrison Barnes remind you of most and how successful will he be?

 

David Thorpe (12:03 PM)

 

I think he can be Paul Pierce, more or less. Pierce has an extremely technically advanced triple threat game, and Barnes will need to learn that. But I like how he's starting to post and back down guys.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Built Ford Tough

[Check my Stats]

I actually really like the Paul Pierce comparison. haven't seen him much but it seems pretty accurate.

[Buckets!]

Irving is not the prize. I rather have Barnes. So many good point guards in the league that he's not needed. Not many good SFs in the league. Raps need Barnes!

[Built Ford Tough]

Irving is not the prize. I rather have Barnes. So many good point guards in the league that he's not needed. Not many good SFs in the league. Raps need Barnes!

 

And exactly how many times have you even watched Barnes and Irving play?

 

Hell, two weeks ago you said that the Raptors need Irving.

 

Because of how many good point guards there are in the league, it makes landing Irving so important for the Raptors. Night in and night out you are going to go up against all-star caliber guards in the NBA (the Raptors have 3 of them in their own division in Williams, Rondo and Billups and a potential all-star in Holiday). That is 16 games a year against some serious competition at the point guard spot. This is just inter-division competition and not including guys like Rose and Wall or Western point guards like Westbrook, Paul and Nash.

 

That is why it is so important to go land a guy like Irving. Not only is he the clear cut number one in this draft, but he fills a gaping hole for the Raptors (Barnes does that too, but Irving is the better prospect).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy with Barnes, but Irving is definitely the better prospect between the two.

 

 

As for top prospects in March Madness, Brandon Knight was held pointless for the first 39:58 but ended up hitting the game winning layup with 2 seconds left to give UK the win over Princeton. Terrence Jones was invisible by the sounds of it as well.