Awful, awful defense by Kobe

[Erick Blasco]

http://bballbreakdown.com/

 

It's defense like this by Kobe and the Lakers that allow a team to make 22 threes...

[Check my Stats]

Vintage regular season Kobe.

[Warren2ThaG]

One of the worst defenders when he doesn't try or cares.

[reno]

Kobe was always a overrated defender, no surprise here.

[Big Penny]

when he decides to play defense, he's a great perimeter defender.

 

when he decides to play defense.

[Guru]

The team was lazy, especially Kobe. Doesn't mean Kobe can't play defense lol he clearly wasn't even trying.

[ChosenOne]

Kobe plays when he wants to, as we can tell he really did not want to play against the Suns.

[Nitro]

That's exactly why his last few All-Defense selections were bull[expletive], and just on repuation. He doesn't bring it in the regular season unless it's against an elite perimeter player, and his off-ball defense is very, very lazy.

 

Still, when the post-season comes around, he has that ability to lock people down, which is extremely valuable.

[fish7718]

It surprises me that a guy with such an amazing work ethic would take off plays, not knocking him or anything, it's just surprising.

[The Regime]

That's exactly why his last few All-Defense selections were bull[expletive], and just on repuation. He doesn't bring it in the regular season unless it's against an elite perimeter player, and his off-ball defense is very, very lazy.

 

Still, when the post-season comes around, he has that ability to lock people down, which is extremely valuable.

 

Not true. He does play NBA All Defense type defense in the regular season just not every single game. He saves those kind of performances when they are playing against good teams or when he is matched up against a top tier scorers. He just doesn't give a [expletive] otherwise.

[Jammin]

Not true. He does play NBA All Defense type defense in the regular season just not every single game. He saves those kind of performances when they are playing against good teams or when he is matched up against a top tier scorers. He just doesn't give a [expletive] otherwise.

How is that a good thing? Your franchise player takes nights off on defense because he doesn't feel like it's necessary? Obviously he should have realized when the Suns had 17 three pointers after 3 quarters that he should start trying. It's not like it was a blow out.

[kingfish]

How is that a good thing? Your franchise player takes nights off on defense because he doesn't feel like it's necessary? Obviously he should have realized when the Suns had 17 three pointers after 3 quarters that he should start trying. It's not like it was a blow out.

When your back to back champs you dont really care too much about regular season games.

[N.1.A.K.]

When your back to back champs you dont really care too much about regular season games.

 

worst excuse to play lazy/not give a damn

Edited November 18, 2010 by N.1.A.K.

[Real Deal]

Bryant takes off defensively, sometimes, so he has enough juice to score when nobody else is feeling it. He's been playing since 1996. Steve Nash is having trouble logging minutes now, Allen Iverson is in Turkey, Ray Allen is depending on a lot of his team's play to get his wins these days, and nobody in that draft is even coming CLOSE to the level Kobe is playing on even today, after the multiple knee surgeries and destroyed fingers.

 

When it's go time, he's expected to excel. When it's not, he can do whatever he wants. He has five championship rings and almost 46,000 total minutes. If we lose this season, it'll be on him no matter what (because that's how it goes), so he's doing fine.

 

Even today, there isn't a single person I would want defending LeBron or Wade at the end of a meaningful game other than Kobe Bryant. Not Battier, Artest, Thabo, none of them over Kobe. Most GM's will agree with that, and that's what earns him his defensive player awards.

 

Phil's philosophy has always been that a great offense is the best defense (anyone have that quote from the Kobe-Shaq era?), and while he doesn't like losing, he will brush off losses to teams that live and die by the three, just like he discussed before the Lakers played the Magic in the NBA Finals. In our offense, we depend on Kobe quite a bit. He is the primary option AND the facilitator. When he's playing injured every season, and over 30, and in his 15th NBA season, it's important for him to conserve his energy.

 

Extending Kobe's prime is the most important thing right now. It wins us more rings. When the smoke clears, that's all that matters. That's the difference between a dynasty and a one-and-done.

 

Funny how this is never brought up about Steve Nash when he was winning his MVP awards, or how nobody cares to talk about LeBron only closing out on drives to the rim and not playing any on-ball defense, how Dwight Howard doesn't have elite on-ball post defense, and how Tim Duncan has been resting for three years now without any criticism.

[Real Deal]

By the way, someone tell Nick that the record is 23 threes, by Orlando, against the Kings. The Suns didn't tie it.

[moeroadkill]

but he'll still win first NBA defensive team

[Jammin]

Bryant takes off defensively, sometimes, so he has enough juice to score when nobody else is feeling it. He's been playing since 1996. Steve Nash is having trouble logging minutes now, Allen Iverson is in Turkey, Ray Allen is depending on a lot of his team's play to get his wins these days, and nobody in that draft is even coming CLOSE to the level Kobe is playing on even today, after the multiple knee surgeries and destroyed fingers.

 

When it's go time, he's expected to excel. When it's not, he can do whatever he wants. He has five championship rings and almost 46,000 total minutes. If we lose this season, it'll be on him no matter what (because that's how it goes), so he's doing fine.

 

Even today, there isn't a single person I would want defending LeBron or Wade at the end of a meaningful game other than Kobe Bryant. Not Battier, Artest, Thabo, none of them over Kobe. Most GM's will agree with that, and that's what earns him his defensive player awards.

 

Phil's philosophy has always been that a great offense is the best defense (anyone have that quote from the Kobe-Shaq era?), and while he doesn't like losing, he will brush off losses to teams that live and die by the three, just like he discussed before the Lakers played the Magic in the NBA Finals. In our offense, we depend on Kobe quite a bit. He is the primary option AND the facilitator. When he's playing injured every season, and over 30, and in his 15th NBA season, it's important for him to conserve his energy.

 

Extending Kobe's prime is the most important thing right now. It wins us more rings. When the smoke clears, that's all that matters. That's the difference between a dynasty and a one-and-done.

 

Funny how this is never brought up about Steve Nash when he was winning his MVP awards, or how nobody cares to talk about LeBron only closing out on drives to the rim and not playing any on-ball defense, how Dwight Howard doesn't have elite on-ball post defense, and how Tim Duncan has been resting for three years now without any criticism.

Nash, Allen and Iverson are all 3+ years older. In 4 years from now Kobe won't be playing at the same level as he is now.

[EastCoastNiner]

That's exactly why his last few All-Defense selections were bull[expletive], and just on repuation. He doesn't bring it in the regular season unless it's against an elite perimeter player, and his off-ball defense is very, very lazy.

 

Still, when the post-season comes around, he has that ability to lock people down, which is extremely valuable.

 

That's the same thing with Michael Jordan where he wasn't even the best defender on his OWN team for many years later in his career.

[Nitro]

Even today, there isn't a single person I would want defending LeBron or Wade at the end of a meaningful game other than Kobe Bryant. Not Battier, Artest, Thabo, none of them over Kobe. Most GM's will agree with that, and that's what earns him his defensive player awards.

 

That's like saying Kobe has deserved the last few MVP's because "when he wants" he can be a better player than LeBron. The fact of the matter is that All-Defense selections should be based on your body of work, not your potential. Kobe's body of work in the regular season has not warranted his 1st team selections the last few seasons, especially over guys like Sefolosha and Wade. I'll try to find the exact stats, but Wade statistically was a more effective one-on-one defender last season than Kobe and *I think* Artest, while also getting around 2 steals and leading all guards in blocked shots.

[Nitro]

That's the same thing with Michael Jordan where he wasn't even the best defender on his OWN team for many years later in his career.

 

I would agree about Jordan's selections during the last 3-peat, but the difference is he still put a greater effort than Kobe did on that end, and he was a major part of their stifling defense (top 3 in the league every year during the last 3-peat).

[Real Deal]

That's like saying Kobe has deserved the last few MVP's because "when he wants" he can be a better player than LeBron. The fact of the matter is that All-Defense selections should be based on your body of work, not your potential. Kobe's body of work in the regular season has not warranted his 1st team selections the last few seasons, especially over guys like Sefolosha and Wade. I'll try to find the exact stats, but Wade statistically was a more effective one-on-one defender last season than Kobe and *I think* Artest, while also getting around 2 steals and leading all guards in blocked shots.

Voters don't look at the two awards the same. There's actually a criteria for the MVP award: wins, and then stats.

 

I can find a game where Thabo played garbage defense, make a video about it, and then we can talk about that.

 

For the most part, Bryant is always helping on Fisher's man and in the post. He's having trouble this season because of the injury (it's clear as day) and the amount of minutes Ron is playing right now. Matt Barnes is nowhere near the defensive player Ron is, not even close, and with Phil playing Barnes at the four here and there, it asks for Bryant's help even more.

 

I know you have to acknowledge that. And if you do, I can go ahead and acknowledge the fact that Bryant does lay low on defense sometimes (I already have, in my last post) but there are legitimate reasons for it, and I would rather get beat by the three than by the drive or post.

[Nitro]

Voters don't look at the two awards the same. There's actually a criteria for the MVP award: wins, and then stats.

 

LeBron and Kobe both led the 2 best regular season teams last year. When Kobe is healthy and on, he's probably a better player than LeBron, and can put up nearly as impressive stats (he could still give you 31/5/5 if he wanted). I think it's a good analogy. Not perfect, but my point is that the award should not be given based on defensive potential, but rather productivity and body of work.

 

I can find a game where Thabo played garbage defense, make a video about it, and then we can talk about that.

 

For the most part, Bryant is always helping on Fisher's man and in the post. He's having trouble this season because of the injury (it's clear as day) and the amount of minutes Ron is playing right now. Matt Barnes is nowhere near the defensive player Ron is, not even close, and with Phil playing Barnes at the four here and there, it asks for Bryant's help even more.

 

I know you have to acknowledge that. And if you do, I can go ahead and acknowledge the fact that Bryant does lay low on defense sometimes (I already have, in my last post) but there are legitimate reasons for it, and I would rather get beat by the three than by the drive or post.

 

I acknowledge it, but to say he deserves the selection over a defensive specialist like Sefolosha, who almost always defends the other team's best perimeter player and does a terrific job, or Wade, who last year almost always took the toughest perimeter assignment while also being arguably the best off-ball perimeter defender in the entire leage? I just strongly disagree. Kobe rarely takes the other team's toughest perimeter assignment, his off-ball defense isn't in the same league's as Wade's (not just with steals/blocks, but also fast recovery and rotations), and he has a tendency to play lazy. I am sure you can find game's where Wade and Sefolosha also played lazy, but it's not as common of an occurance, which is to be expected since he has a LOT more miles than Wade and isn't a specialist like Thabo...but it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't deserve it over them.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Nitro

[Real Deal]

Well, Bryant was 12th in the voting for DPOY (below Thabo and Wade), and I never said he deserved it over Thabo. Wade is a different story because I think Kobe is a better on-ball defender, and unless we're talking Dwight Howard, on-ball defense is more important than help defense (in my opinion).

 

Wade has taken plays off on defense. I've seen him do it against Bryant, where Wright would take Kobe and Wade would watch someone else.

 

With Ron Artest, Bryant shouldn't defend the best player. That doesn't make him a worse defender, because sometimes, he does defend that guy. Kobe locked LeBron down twice in the 2008-09 season, while LeBron crushed Artest both games last season.

 

If this team ran the ball through the post every play, and Gasol was a threat like Shaq, Bryant would have more room to defend the best every single night, 40 minutes a game. If he had someone else creating for him, he'd do it. It's one reason why guys like Thabo and Bowen have started games over players like Harden and Ginobili. It's why Ron starts over Odom at the SF, where Phil would consider Drew, Gasol and Odom in the five together (it's not just about bringing Odom off the bench to run the offense, because that experiment was long wiped off the board since 2007).

 

Here's what NBA coaches know: they can't expect a player (any player) to score on Kobe in a one-on-one situation, unless it's a power forward or a center in a mismatch. They have to run their offense while considering Bryant and Ron's defense. It changes everything, and makes the Lakers the team to beat. Boston hates that Kobe defends Rondo the way he does. The Thunder lost that series BECAUSE Kobe drained his knee and defended Westbrook (and because Ron held Durant, but it was Westbrook winning those games). Defensively, Kobe is a problem for every team in the NBA, and coaches have to respect that when they play us, and then they respect it when it's time to stick players on the all-defensive teams.

[Nitro]

Well, Bryant was 12th in the voting for DPOY (below Thabo and Wade), and I never said he deserved it over Thabo. Wade is a different story because I think Kobe is a better on-ball defender, and unless we're talking Dwight Howard, on-ball defense is more important than help defense (in my opinion).

 

Again, statistically, Wade was a better man-to-man defender last season than Kobe, so even if Kobe is a better man-to-man defender (which I fully agree with, without question), Wade did better in those situations last season on tougher defensive matchups (because he didn't have the luxory of Artest).

 

I also strongly disagree with disregarding Wade's help defense. Help defense is EXTREMELY important, even for perimeter defenders. Wade wreaks havoc with his help-defense, which can greatly disrupt the offense. His ability to play the passing lanes is elite, and that ability directly effects most passes that are within his vicinity...whether he actually gets the steal, forces the passer to look to another option, forces the player he is defending to catch the ball where he doesn't want to, etc... He has been the best shot-blocking guard in the NBA for years now, and many of them are straight-up blocks against big men when he comes over to rotate. As I said before, because he is so athletic he makes quick rotations, and his quick recoveries help negate some of the negatives of being a bit of a matador. He also helps deny the post and is generally just a pest. When he's matched up with guys like Allen, who run around countless screens and can't be left open for a blink of the eye, his defense can be exposed, but generally speaking he is an exceptional, underrated defender.

 

With Ron Artest, Bryant shouldn't defend the best player. That doesn't make him a worse defender, because sometimes, he does defend that guy. Kobe locked LeBron down twice in the 2008-09 season, while LeBron crushed Artest both games last season.

 

If this team ran the ball through the post every play, and Gasol was a threat like Shaq, Bryant would have more room to defend the best every single night, 40 minutes a game. If he had someone else creating for him, he'd do it. It's one reason why guys like Thabo and Bowen have started games over players like Harden and Ginobili. It's why Ron starts over Odom at the SF, where Phil would consider Drew, Gasol and Odom in the five together (it's not just about bringing Odom off the bench to run the offense, because that experiment was long wiped off the board since 2007).

 

Again though, if he isn't taking the other team's best perimeter player most games, and he isn't playing insane off-ball defense, I just don't see how he can deserve the highest defensive honor besides DPOY.

 

Here's what NBA coaches know: they can't expect a player (any player) to score on Kobe in a one-on-one situation, unless it's a power forward or a center in a mismatch. They have to run their offense while considering Bryant and Ron's defense. It changes everything, and makes the Lakers the team to beat. Boston hates that Kobe defends Rondo the way he does. The Thunder lost that series BECAUSE Kobe drained his knee and defended Westbrook (and because Ron held Durant, but it was Westbrook winning those games). Defensively, Kobe is a problem for every team in the NBA, and coaches have to respect that when they play us, and then they respect it when it's time to stick players on the all-defensive teams.

 

Even though Kobe's defense was great on Westbrook and Rondo, they were poor jumpshooters last season. Kobe played very smart defense on them, but nothing I would consider "lock down." He played way off them and gave them about 5-7ft of room. Against Rondo it worked extremely well because Fisher wasn't giving Allen an inch of separation, Pierce can't do anything against physical defensive players like LeBron or Artest, KG looked like a broken man, and Perkins was a non-factor offensively. Kobe was still letting Rondo in the lane, not all the way to the basket, but he still let him get around 10ft within the hoop without much resistance. If Fisher doesn't lock up Allen like he did, and if that's Ariza instead of Artest on Pierce, Kobe's defense wouldn't have been very effective. I saw that last week when the Celtics played the Heat. Arroyo was playing Rondo the same way Kobe did, but because Ray had it going, Pierce got a few favorable mismatches, and the Heat are so small up front, it didn't do all that much.

 

But yes, I know Kobe is a feared defender, and I know he's tremendous defensively when he turns it on. But for an award that's for an 82-game season, he just doesn't deserve it.

[Real Deal]

If we're talking about the help the players are receiving, why is anyone calling Battier a good defensive player? Other than contesting a shot (which Kobe has no problem with anymore), he relies HEAVILY on help, almost more than any other "elite" defensive player in the league. However, Battier has been considered one of the best defensive players of this last decade. With Ron helping out that mini-zone they were playing for a while, and Yao sitting in the paint, and even Chuck Hayes contesting shots at the rim, that's huge for Battier...but nobody cared to call him an overrated defensive player because of it.

 

Wade had his share of help, too, in that case. That Heat team was NOT the 6th best defensive team in the league without Haslem, Richardson, O'Neal, Anthony, Wright, and even Magloire's help defense.

 

And, you know...Richardson actually defended some of the better players, especially the bigger two-guards and the small forwards. He took Kobe, LeBron, Durant, and Melo.