Report: Pistons turned down Davis-for-Maxiell trade

[The Goods]

The Celtics have said they would match any reasonable offer for Davis. The Detroit Pistons, New Orleans Hornets and Portland Trail Blazers, league sources said, tried to work a sign-and-trade deal for Davis only to be rebuffed by the Celtics. Boston did offer Davis and guards J.R. Giddens and Gabe Pruitt to the Pistons for forward Jason Maxiell and a first-round pick, but was quickly turned down.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-davisnets072009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Edited July 24, 2009 by The Goods

[Multi-Billionaire]

What an idiot... Davis is 5x better than Maxiell.

[ATL]

Glen Davis is better than Maxiell but telling Detroit to throw in a first round pick in with Maxiell is horrible. Detroit would be trading their first round pick basically for two players that aren't needed for their team. I think if Boston offered the same deal and changed the first round pick to cash considerations and maybe a 2nd round pick, I say it's an even deal.

[xx.]

I definitely wouldn't say Glen Davis is a lot better then Maxiell. But I'm guessing what made them quickly deny this trade was that Boston also wanted that 1st round pick.

[Built Ford Tough]

What an idiot... Davis is 5x better than Maxiell.

 

Lol.

 

Davis is hardly 5x better than Maxiell is. I do agree with you that Davis is probably the better player, but it is not by a significant margin or anything like that. These two are very close in terms of what type of impact they are going to have on a game. Neither of them are ever going to be startng caliber power forwards in the game and to be perfectly honest, neither of them should really play much more than 24ish minutes during a game either. They are average, run of the mill back up power forwards that will give you hustle, energy and everything that they have when they are on the basketball floor. Davis is the better jump shooter and more fundamentally sound, but Maxiell is the far superior athlete and brings a toughness and tenacity to the floor that Big Baby doesn't. I do agree that if it were just Davis for Maxiell straight up that Detroit would most likely accept the trade because Davis is the slightly superior player.

 

However, considering the fact that the Celtics wanted the Pistons to throw in a 1st round pick is completely absurd. A trade of Davis for Maxiell straight up would be a pretty fair trade, maybe the Pistons would need to throw in a 2nd rounder to make it equal value, but having them throw in a 1st rounder is absolutely insane especially when you consider the fact that there is a very distinct possibility that the Pistons do not make it into the playoffs this upcoming season which would make that draft pick a lottery pick (assuming that it would be a 2010 1st rounder). Even if the Pistons do make the playoffs, they will be an 8th seed most likely and a 7th seed at best which would make their pick around the 15-17 range.

 

Yes I know that the C's would also have traded J.R. Giddens and Gabe Pruit to the Pistons as well, but to put it simply, those players are scrubs. In all likely hood, neither of these two players are ever going to play any sort of role for any playoff caliber team. These two players are the types of players that you have on your roster just to fill it out. Yeah they are young, but I would be shocked if either of these two ever amounted to anything other than a 10th man off of the bench.

 

So you think that Joe Dumars is an idiot for turning down a trade in which he would be giving up Jason Maxiell and a 1st round draft pick that would fall in the 10-17 range for Glen Davis and two scrubs? Good thing for Pistons fans that you aren't running the show over there .

[Multi-Billionaire]

He put up 15.8 ppg and 5.6 rpg in the playoffs:

 

- 18.1 ppg, 6.7 rpg and 1.3 spg vs Bulls where the series was intense and every possession counted

- 13.4 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 1.3 spg vs Magic the stats decreased because he played 10.5 mpg less in that series but he shot even better with 54.5 FG%

 

 

Now let's see what Maxiell did on the big stage:

- 3.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg... in a pressure-free series where even my dog knew the Cavs were going to win and the Pistons had no chance... it was a blowout usually by halftime... players played freely without pressure.

 

 

Geee... what a decrease stats from the regular season line of 5.8 ppg and 4.2 rpg, playing in pressure free series. In comparison, Davis doubled and almost tripled his stats in the playoffs, yes he played more minutes, but even as KG went down, he had to earn his playing time. And no guarantee he would put up those stats just because he was given the ball... but he stepped up and produced. And he buried clutch shots in Game 6 vs. Bulls and made a winner in Game 4 vs. Magic. He was an option at the end of playoffs games on a team with Pierce and Allen, was Maxiell even one? No.

 

 

I don't usually go by stats, but this is not even close. It's too clear... how can you say "slightly better"? This is not close at all. You can outjump everyone and show everyone how athletic you are but if you put measly stats you're a small time player. Davis is a productive player and he would be an asset to any playoffs team. He is undersized but he also outworks and outhustles most players at his position.

 

You can sit and talk about how this player is much more athletic than the other being compared to... but it doesn't mean anything if he barely contributes.

 

 

I don't know where your logic is from... I'd rather overpay (if I was an owner) Davis for $10 mil a year than Maxiel for a veteran minimum. Again, it's not even close.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Snake

[DWhiTex34]

Lol.

 

Davis is hardly 5x better than Maxiell is. I do agree with you that Davis is probably the better player, but it is not by a significant margin or anything like that. These two are very close in terms of what type of impact they are going to have on a game. Neither of them are ever going to be startng caliber power forwards in the game and to be perfectly honest, neither of them should really play much more than 24ish minutes during a game either. They are average, run of the mill back up power forwards that will give you hustle, energy and everything that they have when they are on the basketball floor. Davis is the better jump shooter and more fundamentally sound, but Maxiell is the far superior athlete and brings a toughness and tenacity to the floor that Big Baby doesn't. I do agree that if it were just Davis for Maxiell straight up that Detroit would most likely accept the trade because Davis is the slightly superior player.

 

However, considering the fact that the Celtics wanted the Pistons to throw in a 1st round pick is completely absurd. A trade of Davis for Maxiell straight up would be a pretty fair trade, maybe the Pistons would need to throw in a 2nd rounder to make it equal value, but having them throw in a 1st rounder is absolutely insane especially when you consider the fact that there is a very distinct possibility that the Pistons do not make it into the playoffs this upcoming season which would make that draft pick a lottery pick (assuming that it would be a 2010 1st rounder). Even if the Pistons do make the playoffs, they will be an 8th seed most likely and a 7th seed at best which would make their pick around the 15-17 range.

 

Yes I know that the C's would also have traded J.R. Giddens and Gabe Pruit to the Pistons as well, but to put it simply, those players are scrubs. In all likely hood, neither of these two players are ever going to play any sort of role for any playoff caliber team. These two players are the types of players that you have on your roster just to fill it out. Yeah they are young, but I would be shocked if either of these two ever amounted to anything other than a 10th man off of the bench.

 

So you think that Joe Dumars is an idiot for turning down a trade in which he would be giving up Jason Maxiell and a 1st round draft pick that would fall in the 10-17 range for Glen Davis and two scrubs? Good thing for Pistons fans that you aren't running the show over there .

 

Davis already is...

[Built Ford Tough]

He put up 15.8 ppg and 5.6 rpg in the playoffs:

 

- 18.1 ppg, 6.7 rpg and 1.3 spg vs Bulls where the series was intense and every possession counted

- 13.4 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 1.3 spg vs Magic the stats decreased because he played 10.5 mpg less in that series but he shot even better with 54.5 FG%

 

I'm not denying that Davis had a very productive playoffs, but aside from two good playoff series, the guy has done nothing note worthy in his career aside from that. He stepped his game up big time, no doubt about that and I give him props for that, but the fact of the matter is that we have seen plenty of times that a player can play out of his mind during the course of a series or two during the playoffs during a contract season, but it is just a case of them having a stretch of games in which he simply played out of his mind.

 

An example of this is Jerome James for Seattle back in 04/05. During the course of the regular season he averaged 5/3 in 16 minutes per game but in the playoffs he saw an increase in his minutes and he played very well and put up 12.5/7 in 26 minutes per game. This was during a contract season and he was nothing more than a backup power forward that played limited minutes per game during the course of the season. Then he got a chance during the playoffs and played out of his mind for two series and then went into free agency and got a fat contract as a result.

 

So can you please explain to me how these two situations are any different? Both of these two are backup big men on playoff teams and as a result of circumstance, they were given a shot in the playoffs and saw an increase in their minutes and role. Both of them were in contract years and both had extremely productive playoffs (by their standards) and went into free agency looking to cash in on a good stretch of two series. The fact of the matter is that Glen Davis, aside from two good playoff series, has proven that he is nothing more than a backup power forward in the NBA that is good for 20-24 minutes a night, much like Jerome James did in 04/05.

 

Now let's see what Maxiell did on the big stage:

- 3.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg... in a pressure-free series where even my dog knew the Cavs were going to win and the Pistons had no chance... it was a blowout usually by halftime... players played freely without pressure.

 

So you are comparing Maxiell, who played 16 minutes a game and had a much lesser role on his team (took 10 shots in 4 games), to Glen Davis, who played 36 minutes per game and had a significant role on his team (took 175 shots in 14 games)? Right, they are identical situations...

 

 

Geee... what a decrease stats from the regular season line of 5.8 ppg and 4.2 rpg, playing in pressure free series. In comparison, Davis doubled and almost tripled his stats in the playoffs, yes he played more minutes, but even as KG went down, he had to earn his playing time. And no guarantee he would put up those stats just because he was given the ball... but he stepped up and produced. And he buried clutch shots in Game 6 vs. Bulls and made a winner in Game 4 vs. Magic. He was an option at the end of playoffs games on a team with Pierce and Allen, was Maxiell even one? No.

 

Yeah, Davis stepped up his game, but again, how many times have we seen players play well for stretches of the season or in a playoff series just because of a lucky circumstance? It happens plenty of times when players play out of their mind for a stretch of games but ultimately come back down to earth and play like the real player that they are.

 

Let me ask you a question, do you honestly think that Davis is capable of playing that way during the course of an entire season? Or do you think that he would ultimately go back to the player that he really is, a good backup power forward that will give you 7/4 like he did for 76 games during the course of the regular season?

 

If you ask me, 14 good playoff games in which he played out of his mind does not make up for the fact that in the 145 regular season games that he has played in he has averages of 6/3. Realistically, what do you think is a more telling sign of what type of player Davis is, the 15/6 averages in 14 games during last seasons playoffs or the 6/3 averages in his 165 regular season games?

 

I don't usually go by stats, but this is not even close. It's too clear... how can you say "slightly better"? This is not close at all. You can outjump everyone and show everyone how athletic you are but if you put measly stats you're a small time player. Davis is a productive player and he would be an asset to any playoffs team. He is undersized but he also outworks and outhustles most players at his position.

 

Ok, maybe slightly better is a bit of an understatment, but you acting like Davis is an All Star compared to Maxiell is a straight up joke. I hate to break it to you but 14 games does not make up for a career of mediocrity. As of right now, both of these players are energy big men off of the bench and until Davis can show that he is capable of putting up the kind of numbers that he had in the playoffs on a consistent basis, and not just over the course of 14 games, I am not going to hop all over his nuts and act like he is a starting caliber power forward on a playoff team. Sorry if I don't get caught up in the hype of a player having a good 14 game stretch when in his career up until then he had never done anything other than what you would expect from a backup power forward.

 

Quick question for you, if Maxiell is a small time player because he puts up measly stats, then wouldn't Davis be considered to be a small time player as well when you consider the fact that Maxiell has career averages of 6/4 on 53% shooting and Davis has career averages of 6/3.5 on 45% shooting? Oh wait, Davis had one productive post season in which defenses were focused in on stopping Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo and as a result Davis was given countless amounts of open jumpers, so that must mean that he is a big time player, despite what the previous 165 games of his career.

 

You can sit and talk about how this player is much more athletic than the other being compared to... but it doesn't mean anything if he barely contributes.

 

Lol, because Davis contributes so much and has such a monumental impact on every game that he is a part of right? Sorry if I don't overrate a player because of 14 playoff games in which he played well when defenses weren't even worried about stopping him. Sorry if I have seen players like Davis do this time and time again in contract seasons only to go back to their normal self once they get their payday.

 

I don't know where your logic is from... I'd rather overpay (if I was an owner) Davis for $10 mil a year than Maxiel for a veteran minimum. Again, it's not even close.

 

Good god, thank the lord that you are not in charge of any type of roster decisions then. If you would rather pay Davis $10M than Maxiell the vets minimum, then well, no offense, but you are completely delusional. You must've loved it when the Knicks game Jerome James a fat deal after one good playoff series and thought it was such a fantastic deal.

 

Davis can prove me completely wrong and shut me the hell up if he manages to play like you think he is capable of for an entire NBA season. Until he manages to play consistent, productive basketball for more than 14 [expletive]ing games, forgive me if I am not going to hop all over his nuts.

 

Davis already is...

 

Why because you say he is? Oh well, if the Celtic fans thinks that Davis is a starting caliber power forward, it must mean its true then.

 

Lets see, lets look at the starting power forwards from last season and see how many teams he would've started for:

 

Atlanta - Josh Smith - Nope

Boston - Kevin Garnett - Not a chance in hell

Charlotte - Boris Diaw - No

Chicago - Tyrus Thomas - Probably

Cleveland - Ben Wallace/Anderson Varejao - Wallace, definitely; Varejao, toss up

Dallas - Dirk Nowitzki - Hell no

Denver - Kenyon Martin - No

Detroit - Rasheed Wallace/Antonio McDyess - Wallace, no; McDyess, probably not, but maybe

Golden State - Randolph/Wright/whoever else - Yes, but not in Nellies system because Davis would die of a heart attack

Houston - Luis Scola - No

Indiana - Troy Murphey - No

LA Clippers - Zach Randolph - No

LA Lakers - Gasol/Odom - Not a chance

Memphis - Darrell Aruther - Yes

Miami - Udonis Haslem - Maybe

Milwaukee - Charlie Villanueva - No

Minnesota - Ryan Gomes - Yes

New Jersey - Yi - Yes

New Orleans - David West - No way

New York - Al Harrington - Nope

Oklahoma City - Jeff Green - Nope

Orlando - Rashard Lewis - No

Philadelphia - Elton Brand/Thaddeus Young - Nope

Phoenix - Amare toudemire - Not a chance

Portland - LaMarcus Aldridge - No

Sacreamento - Jason Thompson - Probably

San Antonio - Tim Duncan - Not a chance in hell

Toronto - Chris Bosh - Not a chance in hell

Utah - Carlos Boozer/Paul Millsap - not at all

Wasthington - Antwan Jamison - Nope

 

So 22 out of the 30 teams are a definitive no. About 3-5 teams are a definitive yes and the other teams are a maybe. So no, Glen Davis is not a starting caliber power forward. Honestly, its not even close.

[Multi-Billionaire]

This is you: "my gut feeling is he just had a good playoffs and he's nothing more than Jerome James. My gut feeling is he's just playing for a contract. My gut feeling is he won't be the same 15 and 6 player for a full season."

 

How can I respond to that?

 

Davis got a lower season average in 145 games because well a guy named KG was mostly healthy. He was seldom in the rotation. Yes you're right, he took advantage of KG injury. But you think he didn't earn his playing time? You think all second round picks will go, "yes, my all star teammate is down, it's time for me to shine." How many times has Sheed gone down to injury or played like he couldn't care less and Maxiell "didn't take advantage"? You think all Davis had to do is throw the ball up and it would find its way through the net? It's ridiculous... yes opportunity presents itself but you have also have to prove you can play given the opportunity. And Davis did that.

 

Don't go to me pointing out Maxiell only took 10 shots. Why did he take only 10 shots in the first place? The better question is why was he given only 10 shots? If he could score like Davis, don't you think he would get more shots?

 

 

Don't tell me Davis is the beneficiary of lack of defensive focus because the Bulls focused on Pierce and Allen. Bulls had very good defensive rotation, aside of Marbury none of other Celtics had many open shots... it's why they took the C's to 7 games. The clutch shots occurred in Game 6 where the Bulls found out he could score. The game went into 3 OTs and Davis kept making clutch shots. Don't you think they should have covered him better? Actually they did, but he got better offense. And to use your logic on Maxiell situation, I can say Cavs were also busy focusing on Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, Sheed. Heck the Cavs had 4 players they had to worry about besides Maxiell and Bulls only had to worry about 2 (Pierce and Allen). Why didn't he take advantage? I'm sure if he could score as well as Davis, he would have been given shots.

 

And you're alluding the fact Davis played in much more intense playoffs than Maxiell. In a series where the Cavs rested most of their starters in the second halves, you're saying Maxiell only took 10 shots all series? If he could score, don't you think the Pistons, who had trouble scoring, wouldn't have gone to him? Davis' team, on the other hand, had their hands full with the Bulls in perhaps the most intense first round series in the NBA history, and also played 7 games against the eventual East champs.

 

 

---

 

Aside of that, maybe you're right Davis "only had 14 good playoffs games" although that should be good enough many meaningful games. Maybe you're right he's only playing for a contract, but comparing him to Jerome James is ridiculous. Dude is a post player while Davis is versatile and can score in many ways, face up and J, post up and turnaround J, some post game down low against even his buddy shotblocker Tyrus Thomas... Davis repetitively had his way against him. When Isiah Thomas gave that contract to James, nobody said it was a good move... everybody said he's way overpaying. There's a fine line between a post player with limited moves with a versatile forward who can almost score from anywhere inside the three pt line.

 

Look that $10 mil for Davis was an exaggeration. If I was an owner, of course I wouldn't give him $10 mil per... but I'm just saying I'd rather give $10 mil to Davis than veteran minimum to Maxiell knowing I'll get production.

 

 

All I'm saying I got a feeling Davis will be a very good player, and you got a feeling he is just another Jerome James. Fine I respect that, but you can't say, "you know what I have a feeling my feeling is right and your feeling is wrong." It's just a damn feeling! What is Davis supposed to do? Play in summer league too because he "didn't play in enough games" to convince it wasn't just a fluke. The season is over... he is a second round pick and he only had two years to prove he can play and deserve another contract. Jerome James had been in the L since 1998-99 and a sudden spike in his stats that so happened in his contract year... and only Isiah and now you couldn't see it? Maxiell has been in the L for four years and if he only took 10 shots in 4 playoffs games, I think it's a pretty good indication of your skills when you have been in the L for 4 years and his teammates and coaches, who know him best, say "you know what you're taking 10 shots in this series". Davis on the other hand has proven during the season too when KG went down that he can contribute given the opportunity.

 

It's not even close. But of course it's just my gut feeling...

[Multi-Billionaire]

Why because you say he is? Oh well, if the Celtic fans thinks that Davis is a starting caliber power forward, it must mean its true then.

 

Lets see, lets look at the starting power forwards from last season and see how many teams he would've started for:

 

Atlanta - Josh Smith - Nope

Boston - Kevin Garnett - Not a chance in hell

Charlotte - Boris Diaw - No

Chicago - Tyrus Thomas - Probably

Cleveland - Ben Wallace/Anderson Varejao - Wallace, definitely; Varejao, toss up

Dallas - Dirk Nowitzki - Hell no

Denver - Kenyon Martin - No

Detroit - Rasheed Wallace/Antonio McDyess - Wallace, no; McDyess, probably not, but maybe

Golden State - Randolph/Wright/whoever else - Yes, but not in Nellies system because Davis would die of a heart attack

Houston - Luis Scola - No

Indiana - Troy Murphey - No

LA Clippers - Zach Randolph - No

LA Lakers - Gasol/Odom - Not a chance

Memphis - Darrell Aruther - Yes

Miami - Udonis Haslem - Maybe

Milwaukee - Charlie Villanueva - No

Minnesota - Ryan Gomes - Yes

New Jersey - Yi - Yes

New Orleans - David West - No way

New York - Al Harrington - Nope

Oklahoma City - Jeff Green - Nope

Orlando - Rashard Lewis - No

Philadelphia - Elton Brand/Thaddeus Young - Nope

Phoenix - Amare toudemire - Not a chance

Portland - LaMarcus Aldridge - No

Sacreamento - Jason Thompson - Probably

San Antonio - Tim Duncan - Not a chance in hell

Toronto - Chris Bosh - Not a chance in hell

Utah - Carlos Boozer/Paul Millsap - not at all

Wasthington - Antwan Jamison - Nope

 

So 22 out of the 30 teams are a definitive no. About 3-5 teams are a definitive yes and the other teams are a maybe. So no, Glen Davis is not a starting caliber power forward. Honestly, its not even close.

 

 

Let's switch Davis with Maxiell in there... after a very quick observation, me says he won't start on all 30 teams.

 

And did you really say "probably", "slightly" when describing Davis being a better player than Maxiell? lol

[Built Ford Tough]

 

Let's switch Davis with Maxiell in there... after a very quick observation, me says he won't start on all 30 teams.

 

And did you really say "probably", "slightly" when describing Davis being a better player than Maxiell? lol

 

Go ahead and switch Davis with Maxiell, I have not once claimed that Maxiell is at starting caliber power forward in the NBA and that was the entire point of listing those teams. Yeah, I completely agree with you that Maxiell wouldn't start on any team in the NBA, hence the reason why I NEVER SAID THAT HE WOULD.

 

I also admitted that it was an understatement when I said that Davis was only slightly better than Maxiell was, hence the reason why I said:

 

Ok, maybe slightly better is a bit of an understatment

 

Do you want me to say it again? Fine I will, saying that Davis is slightly better than Maxiell was an understatement on my part, but you saying that Davis is 5x the player that Maxiell was is a gross overstatement on your part. I guess we are even then.

 

This is you: "my gut feeling is he just had a good playoffs and he's nothing more than Jerome James. My gut feeling is he's just playing for a contract. My gut feeling is he won't be the same 15 and 6 player for a full season."

 

How can I respond to that?

 

In case you didn't realize, but every single post that anybody makes on a message board is nothing more than personal opinion, or a "gut feeling". Obviously everything that gets posted on a message board by every single member of that board is nothing more than a personal opinion or, as you call it, a "gut feeling".

 

I stated my opinion, just like you stated yours, and everybody else stats theirs. We are all doing nothing but stating our opinions.

 

Davis got a lower season average in 145 games because well a guy named KG was mostly healthy. He was seldom in the rotation. Yes you're right, he took advantage of KG injury. But you think he didn't earn his playing time? You think all second round picks will go, "yes, my all star teammate is down, it's time for me to shine." How many times has Sheed gone down to injury or played like he couldn't care less and Maxiell "didn't take advantage"? You think all Davis had to do is throw the ball up and it would find its way through the net? It's ridiculous... yes opportunity presents itself but you have also have to prove you can play given the opportunity. And Davis did that.

 

Did I ever say that he didn't earn his playing time? I said that he took advantage of a positive circumstance on his part and he deserves props for that. All I simply said was that I am not going to get too caught up in the hype of a player that played in a limited number of games because he produced. I have seen it too many times to actually get worked up about it and think that the guy is the real deal and can do it on a consistent basis. All I am saying is that forgive me if I don't go parading around the forum acting like Baby Davis is one of the better power forwards in the game off of a 14 game stretch in which he played well. I will say that made the most of what was given to him, but until he does it on a CONSISTENT basis, I am not going to get caught up in him.

 

If Davis goes out next season, wherever it may be, and proves that he can play at the same level that he did in the playoffs for a significant stretch of games, then I will have absolutely no problem in admitting that I was wrong about Davis and that he is the real deal. However, until he proves to me that he is not just another flash in the pan, I am going to continue to be skeptical of a player that has done nothing in his entire career aside from a very good playoff run.

 

Don't go to me pointing out Maxiell only took 10 shots. Why did he take only 10 shots in the first place? The better question is why was he given only 10 shots? If he could score like Davis, don't you think he would get more shots?

 

Davis is the superior scorer, and I have no problems admitting that, and have not tried to state otherwise. I was simply stating that Davis had a significantly larger role on the Celtics than Maxiell had on the Pistons and the field goal attempts were a way of showing that. Yes, I know there is a reason why Davis had a larger role on offense than Maxiell did (aside from injuries) and that is because of the fact that I have already agreed with and never tried to dispute, which is Davis is the superior offensive player. I could've made it more clearer why my intention was by bringing up the number of shot attempts, and for that I am sorry, but it was not me trying to say that Maxiell was the better offensive player or anything of that nature.

 

Don't tell me Davis is the beneficiary of lack of defensive focus because the Bulls focused on Pierce and Allen. Bulls had very good defensive rotation, aside of Marbury none of other Celtics had many open shots... it's why they took the C's to 7 games. The clutch shots occurred in Game 6 where the Bulls found out he could score. The game went into 3 OTs and Davis kept making clutch shots. Don't you think they should have covered him better? Actually they did, but he got better offense. And to use your logic on Maxiell situation, I can say Cavs were also busy focusing on Hamilton, Prince, Stuckey, Sheed. Heck the Cavs had 4 players they had to worry about besides Maxiell and Bulls only had to worry about 2 (Pierce and Allen). Why didn't he take advantage? I'm sure if he could score as well as Davis, he would have been given shots.

 

Why shouldn't I tell you that? It is the truth. The Bulls were more worried about Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Rajon Rondo than they were about Glen Davis. I am not saying that the Bulls were just leaving Davis open time and time again, but the fact of the matter is that the Bulls were more concerned with Allen, Pierce and Rondo on offense and that allowed Davis more room to operate. That isn't a knock against Davis by any means because he took advantage of the opportunities that were given to him and I condone him for that, but, once again, the fact of the matter is that the Bulls were more focused on Pierce, Rondo and Allen which gave Davis more room, space and time to operate.

 

Again, show me where I implied that Maxiell is a superior scorer to Davis is? Not one time have I ever tried to imply that Maxiell is more dangerous on the offensive end so if I were you I would stop trying to make it seem like I did.

 

Also, its pretty laughable that you neglect to mention Rajon Rondo as a player that the Bulls had to worry about but you mention Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince who both were non factors that entire series. Yeah maybe heading into the series the Cavs were worried about them hurting them, but it was quickly established that Sheed was more interested in where he would go on his summer vacation and that Prince was way too busy on the defensive end of the floor trying to contain LeBron to have much of role on the offense. Sheed and Prince averaged 6.5/6 and 3.5/3 on disguisting percentages respectively during that series and were not any sort of factor in that series. So you mentioning two players that when you combine their offensive output in their series doesn't even equate to what Rondo put up in the Bulls series is laughable. You are dismissing Rondo like he was a scrub in the series yet he was playing incrediable basketball and almost averaged a triple double throughout the playoffs. You can try to spin it any way that you like, but the Bulls and Magic had 3 players that they were undoubtedly more worried about stopping while I can argue that the Cavs only really had two players that they had to worry about because of the circumstances (Wallace not giving a [expletive] and Prince having the gigantic task of guarding James).

 

And you're alluding the fact Davis played in much more intense playoffs than Maxiell. In a series where the Cavs rested most of their starters in the second halves, you're saying Maxiell only took 10 shots all series? If he could score, don't you think the Pistons, who had trouble scoring, wouldn't have gone to him? Davis' team, on the other hand, had their hands full with the Bulls in perhaps the most intense first round series in the NBA history, and also played 7 games against the eventual East champs.

 

Again, show me where the hell I even implied that Maxiell was an offensive threat and was out on the floor because of his vast array of offensive abilities? There is more to the damn game than offense and that is why Maxiell is out there. All you are mentioning is that Davis is the superior scorer, WHICH I HAVE NOT EVEN ATTEMPTED TO DISPUTE.

 

Aside of that, maybe you're right Davis "only had 14 good playoffs games" although that should be good enough many meaningful games. Maybe you're right he's only playing for a contract, but comparing him to Jerome James is ridiculous.

 

No it is not. Both players were players that were, for all intesnive purposes, buried on the bench (James more so than Davis as Davis actually played 20 minutes or so a game before Garnett got hurt) and got to see an increase in their minutes as a result of circumstance and they played productively. Both just happened to come out of nowhere and both just happened to be in a contract year. The situations are nearly identical and it is not ridiculous to compare the SITUATIONS (not the players but the situations) at all.

 

Dude is a post player while Davis is versatile and can score in many ways, face up and J, post up and turnaround J, some post game down low against even his buddy shotblocker Tyrus Thomas... Davis repetitively had his way against him. When Isiah Thomas gave that contract to James, nobody said it was a good move... everybody said he's way overpaying. There's a fine line between a post player with limited moves with a versatile forward who can almost score from anywhere inside the three pt line

 

I'm not denying that their games are different, I was simply using Jerome James as an example of a big man that sees an increase in his minutes during the end of a season and into the playoffs who happened to play well and just happened to be in a contract year. He happened to cash in on a big pay day as a result of his limited number of productive games (which is what Davis is looking to do now) and teams were suckered into giving him that contract.

 

I used James as an example because he was the first player that came to mind. I was simply comparing the situations and if you think that it ridiculous to do, then I am beginning to think that I just may be wasting my time if you can't see something as simple as the fact that the two situations are very, very similar.

 

And, don't overrate Davis on the offensive end of the floor. He is an above average offensive player, but he is, for the most part, a catch and shoot player from mid range. His post game is hardly anything to talk about and he does not have the ability to create for himself off of the dribble. Davis is a catch and shoot player with an average at best post game and a below average player at creating for himself.

 

Look that $10 mil for Davis was an exaggeration. If I was an owner, of course I wouldn't give him $10 mil per... but I'm just saying I'd rather give $10 mil to Davis than veteran minimum to Maxiell knowing I'll get production.

 

And all I am saying is that it completely absurd. I agree with you that Davis is worth more than Maxiell, but your example of rather giving him $10M over the vets minimum to Maxiell is just taking it too far. I wouldn't have had a problem if you said that you would rather give him $3-5M because he is the better player (although not as much as you are making it out to be) and is more of a scorer which generally nets you more money.

 

I have no problem with you exaggerating to make a point, I do it all the time and if I read through my posts in this thread I would be willing to bet that I would find more than a couple of examples in this thread alone, but there is a line between exaggerating to make a point and sounding completely absurd. In my opinion, you crossed that line and I stated my opinion on it.

 

"All I'm saying I got a feeling Davis will be a very good player, and you got a feeling he is just another Jerome James. Fine I respect that, but you can't say, "you know what I have a feeling my feeling is right and your feeling is wrong." It's just a damn feeling!"

 

No, I am saying that until Davis proves that his 14 games during the playoffs was not a flash in the pan and a hot streak that NBA caliber players are capable of getting on, I am not going to run around singing his praises. I give him props for his production in the playoffs and if he shows that he is able to do that over a much larger sample size, I will admit that he is a better player than I anticipated he would become. As of right now though, he is, in my opinion, nothing more than a backup power forward that shouldn't be getting significant minutes unless your teams starting power forward goes down.

 

And give me a break, if I have made it seem like my opinion is right and yours is wrong, you have done it just as badly as I have. We both have opinions on this matter and we are simply stating our opinions and discussing about our contrasting views. Obviously I am going to try and make my point, just like you are trying to make yours, so get off of your damn high horse and realize that you have done the whole "my feeling/opinion is right and yours is wrong" just as much as I have.

 

"All I'm saying I got a feeling Davis will be a very good player, and you got a feeling he is just another Jerome James. Fine I respect that, but you can't say, "you know what I have a feeling my feeling is right and your feeling is wrong." It's just a damn feeling! What is Davis supposed to do? Play in summer league too because he "didn't play in enough games" to convince it wasn't just a fluke. The season is over... he is a second round pick and he only had two years to prove he can play and deserve another contract. Jerome James had been in the L since 1998-99 and a sudden spike in his stats that so happened in his contract year... and only Isiah and now you couldn't see it? Maxiell has been in the L for four years and if he only took 10 shots in 4 playoffs games, I think it's a pretty good indication of your skills when you have been in the L for 4 years and his teammates and coaches, who know him best, say "you know what you're taking 10 shots in this series". Davis on the other hand has proven during the season too when KG went down that he can contribute given the opportunity."

 

What is Davis supposed to do? Prove that his great 14 playoff games was not yet another case of a player getting on a hot streak and playing out of his mind. Simple as that. I have no problems admitting that if Davis plays like he did during the playoffs for an extended period of time that he is significantly better than Maxiell and it would be absurd to compare the two.

 

Also, would you stop putting words in my mouth? It is really getting old. Not one [expletive]ing time have I mentioned anything about James deserving his contract nor that how he played in the 04/05 playoff series was a true indication of the player that he is. Having you constantly putting words in my mouth (like that, Maxiell being the superior scorer and other things in this thread) is really getting annoying. I have no problem discussing this with you, but if you are going to constantly put words in my mouth to try and make me seem less credible and boost yourself up, I am done with this.

 

On second though, I am done with this discussion anyways. The fact of that matter is that until Davis proves that his excellent playoff stretch was not just a flash in the pan and is a true indication of the player that he is, I am not going to hop all over his nuts and overrate him. Until he shows the ability to play like that consistently, he is, in my opinion, just another example of a player having a great stretch towards the end of his contract season. Don't like my opinion on that, fine, I don't care otherwise.

 

If Davis comes out next season and balls like he did in the playoffs, I will admit that I am wrong. Until then, forgive me for not hopping on the Glen Davis bandwagon like you have. Nothing that I can say will change your opinion on this, and I know that nothing you can say will change mine, so you can respond if you want, but anything else that either of us say will basically just be us going around in around in circles. Next season this will be resolved and if I am proven wrong, I will admit to it.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Built Ford Tough

[Multi-Billionaire]

So now you acknowledge Davis is "clearly" the superior offensive player... what does Maxiell have left in putting him in this discussion with Davis? Defense? Not really, Davis is a pretty good defensive player who takes charge, quick with his hands (1.3 spg) and plays with his smarts. Maxiell his bigger but Davis is arguably thicker and holds his own on the post.

 

The stats speak for themselves Davis is 5x better than Maxiell (16 ppg to 3 ppg). Both guys have comparable defense although I'd give Davis the edge for his quick feet and hands to go with his thick build.

 

 

So why is he still even in the discussion? All this "adding a draft pick is not worth it"... when clearly Davis is 5x better than Maxiell is ridiculous. Next draft, after John Wall and the first 6 picks, it's a weak draft. Pistons are going to draft in the 15-25th range... Maxiell + a [expletive] pick is a bargain for Davis. You have to take risks... and this is a smart risk considering he's a big upgrade offensively over Maxiell. Your saying Davis is a catch and shoot player is indication you never really watched him Were you just looking at stats, and thinking he's another player putting nice stats because he's playing for a contract? Over and over again, Davis created his shots off the dribble. Especially in a mismatch, Davis likes to post up his defender and he has pump fakes to go deeper in the paint or pull for a turnaround J. In Game 6 against Bulls he had many shots off the dribble.

 

 

Please man if you're not disputing he is superior than Maxiell offensively then stop thinking Maxiell has anything left to hang around in this discussion. He is 5x better than Maxiell if not more.