Nexus...

[Dash]

...is officially a bust and the end seems not too far away after last night's episode. The WWE writers seriously [expletive]ed this up (started out great, ended terribly) and their continued pampering of John Cena didn't help Nexus out either.

 

*sigh* How I miss the good old days of the Attitude Era...

[Real Deal]

That's the group that Cena is feuding with, right?

 

Just trying to get in on this a little.

[magicbalala245]

O you mean segment like these from the Attitude ERA?

 

[Lone Wolf]

...is officially a bust and the end seems not too far away after last night's episode. The WWE writers seriously [expletive]ed this up (started out great, ended terribly) and their continued pampering of John Cena didn't help Nexus out either.

 

*sigh* How I miss the good old days of the Attitude Era...

Well, they just came out with new shirts. They'll probably last longer than you think.

[Cleveland's Finest]

I love how Cena is fired but somehow ends up appearing on every Raw since his firing. Now Nexus members randomly decide to not help Barrett, leaving Cena to look like a hero again. This is so beyond realism.

[Check my Stats]

They are really close to dropping the ball on this feud, letting Cena attack Barrett on free tv is so dumb. They needed to continue to build up a few more months to the point where the fans are dying to see Cena punch him in the mouth, not let him attack them weekly on free television.

 

Barrett-Cena was close to having an epic build up, but last night they really took away from it when they let Cena attack Barrett like that. I would also love to know why the GM isn't getting involved lol...

 

They still have a chance to fix this, not sure how, but Barrett needs to regain some of his credibility after looking like a [expletive] these past few weeks. Lets be honest, this feud was never really Nexus vs Cena, it has always been Barrett vs Cena, Nexus was just there to make Barrett more credible and so he can win non-clean.

 

Barrett needs to get the strap asap to regain any sort of credibility and kick this feud back off. The Raw GM needs to ban Cena from Raw soon and then after Barrett wins the title at the rumble (for example) have Cena somehow come back and win the rumble. These two need to fight at wrestlemania, that is the only place a feud like this can have any sort of payoff.

 

Please don't blame the 'era' for this [expletive], the attitude or PG era has nothing to do with the writing of the show. You can still have red hot feuds without using swear words of having puppies.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Check my Stats

[Dash]

That's the group that Cena is feuding with, right?

 

Just trying to get in on this a little.

 

Yeah. It seems like just about anyone who ever feuds with Super Cena gets [expletive]ed over...except Super Orton.

 

Seriously though if the WWE is ever going to move on from this PG era then Cena has to be the first to go, but I highly doubt that happens for a LONG time. I will jump for joy when it does though.

 

O you mean segment like these from the Attitude ERA?

 

 

Vintage Rock. :glasses:

[Check my Stats]

Why would you want Cena gone? He is the best superstar in the world, and is a top 10 superstar of all-time. He might not be a great technician but he still puts on great matches and is one of the best on the mic ever, he just has horrible material to work with and people hate him because he sucks up to the crowd. As soon as he goes heel all the internet fans will love him.

[Real Deal]

Why would you want Cena gone? He is the best superstar in the world, and is a top 10 superstar of all-time.

Cena?

 

Hogan

Flair

Rock

Austin

HHH

HBK

Hart

Sting

Undertaker

Andre

Savage

Warrior

 

No way.

[Check my Stats]

Cena?

 

Hogan

Flair

Rock

Austin

HHH

HBK

Hart

Sting

Undertaker

Andre

Savage

Warrior

 

No way.

 

None of those guys were as big a draw as Cena, save Rock, Austin and Hogan. Like I said, Cena might not be the in-ring technician of a Flair or HBK, or even as talented necessarily, but he draws money and is the face of an era, something many of those guys are not. Wrestling is about making money and drawing fans (wwe universe lulz) to the shows, and you could argue Cena is the only individual draw even left in wrestling today.

 

Cena is a better performer than anyone gives him credit for, he puts on **** matches on a PPV basis, cuts good promos despite being given borderline-crap to work with, and he has single handedly made Wade Barrett arguably the biggest heel in the company in a matter of 6 months. It is just cool to hate Cena because he caters to the kids and ushered in the PG-era, but Hogan was the same thing back in the 80's from what I understand. I am not a Cena fan at all, but I still respect the amount of talent he has and what he has done for the business.

 

When all is said and done, Cena is easily a top 5 WWE superstar ever. You stick him in the attitude era, when wrestling was cool, and we most likely aren't even having this debate.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Check my Stats

[Lone Wolf]

They are really close to dropping the ball on this feud, letting Cena attack Barrett on free tv is so dumb. They needed to continue to build up a few more months to the point where the fans are dying to see Cena punch him in the mouth, not let him attack them weekly on free television.

 

Barrett-Cena was close to having an epic build up, but last night they really took away from it when they let Cena attack Barrett like that. I would also love to know why the GM isn't getting involved lol...

 

They still have a chance to fix this, not sure how, but Barrett needs to regain some of his credibility after looking like a [expletive] these past few weeks. Lets be honest, this feud was never really Nexus vs Cena, it has always been Barrett vs Cena, Nexus was just there to make Barrett more credible and so he can win non-clean.

 

Barrett needs to get the strap asap to regain any sort of credibility and kick this feud back off. The Raw GM needs to ban Cena from Raw soon and then after Barrett wins the title at the rumble (for example) have Cena somehow come back and win the rumble. These two need to fight at wrestlemania, that is the only place a feud like this can have any sort of payoff.

 

Please don't blame the 'era' for this [expletive], the attitude or PG era has nothing to do with the writing of the show. You can still have red hot feuds without using swear words of having puppies.

This. But the problem is, Linda wanted to make the show more "family friendly". We all know why, I hope.

[Check my Stats]

WWE made their product more family friendly because ratings and merch sales were in the dump. They are still trying to get rid of the stench that Benoit left, it was a business move. They are still looking for that PG balance, there are less cringe worthy moments than there were in 09, 09 was practically unbearable at certain points with the childish stuff going on, the midget court thing was the worst wrestling moment I have ever witnessed personally

 

People need to stop blaming the PG though, there have been a bunch of really solid feuds since I tuned back into wrestling a year and a half ago - Hardy/Punk, HBK/Taker II-Cena-Batista/Barrett/Cena. The WWE can still put out a good product without using swear words, the writing staff is just lazy and the WWE is in the middle of rebuilding their roster, trying to make new stars.

 

There are a lot of solid fresh feuds going on right now, so rather than berating the product, just try and enjoy it. Smackdown sucks, but RAW is giving us 5 star matches nightly with Bryan, a red hot feud with Miz/Orton (did you hear that crowd last night? jesus....) and Cena-Barrett will hopefully pick back up. The rumble is around the corner, so as usual, the shows should start to get a lot better. Trips should be back any time as well.

 

The only thing PG has made me miss is blood. It is kind of sweet though, because next time someone bleeds in a match it will feel more epic and important. Also, the gimmick PPV's need to stop as well, they interrupt feuds and are just downright annoying - hell in a cell is practically ruined because of it.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Check my Stats

[Lone Wolf]

Pretty much with the addition of Linda running for Senate. Some things are just too cheesy, though.

[fish7718]

O you mean segment like these from the Attitude ERA?

 

listen to the crowd, god I'd give anything just to have the rock back in the wwe and for them to make it interesting again...

 

None of those guys were as big a draw as Cena, save Rock, Austin and Hogan. Like I said, Cena might not be the in-ring technician of a Flair or HBK, or even as talented necessarily, but he draws money and is the face of an era, something many of those guys are not. Wrestling is about making money and drawing fans (wwe universe lulz) to the shows, and you could argue Cena is the only individual draw even left in wrestling today.

 

Cena is a better performer than anyone gives him credit for, he puts on **** matches on a PPV basis, cuts good promos despite being given borderline-crap to work with, and he has single handedly made Wade Barrett arguably the biggest heel in the company in a matter of 6 months. It is just cool to hate Cena because he caters to the kids and ushered in the PG-era, but Hogan was the same thing back in the 80's from what I understand. I am not a Cena fan at all, but I still respect the amount of talent he has and what he has done for the business.

 

When all is said and done, Cena is easily a top 5 WWE superstar ever. You stick him in the attitude era, when wrestling was cool, and we most likely aren't even having this debate.

No way Cena is a better super star than Flair or HBK. Flair is arguably the greatest icon the WWF has ever had, and HBK defined the early 90's and was far more popular than Cena.

 

Top 5 would be

 

Stone Cold

Hogan

Rock

Flair

HBK

 

and I can't see how Cena would ever break that unless he undergoes some type of dramatic character change

[Check my Stats]

As an individual performer I would probably say HBK is the greatest of all time. He put on classics, terrific on the mic and put over everyone (after the 90's when he was an absolute prick). However, he was not half the draw that Cena is today. When HBK was the face of the WWE, the WWE was getting smashed weekly by WCW. For me, it all comes down to drawing money and ratings, and Cena sells more merch than anyone in history not named Hogan, Austin or Rock as far as I know.

 

Also, do you realize that Flair was the face of WCW? He was a great performer, one of the greatest, but he still was never the face of the WWE.

 

Since we can't value championships since wrestling is obviously scripted programming, the only way to value guys is through their buyrates and merch sales. HBK and Flair are terrific talents, more talented than Cena for sure, but Cena is still the bigger star, which really is all it comes down to.

 

Batista is a horrible wrestler, and pretty bad on the mic as well, but for the past half decade he has been either the biggest, or 2nd biggest star in wrestling. Does that mean he is a better performer than the guys beneath him? No, but he is still the bigger star which is all that matters.

 

I guess I am saying Cena is a top 5 biggest star in WWE history, not necessarily a top 5 greatest talent. Those two lists would be completely different, since on one you would find guys like Flair and HBK who could wrestle and cut promos, but didn't necessarily draw, whereas on the other list you'd find guys like Hogan and Cena, who aren't necessarily as talented, but were easily the bigger stars

Edited December 7, 2010 by Check my Stats

[Real Deal]

None of those guys were as big a draw as Cena, save Rock, Austin and Hogan. Like I said, Cena might not be the in-ring technician of a Flair or HBK, or even as talented necessarily, but he draws money and is the face of an era, something many of those guys are not. Wrestling is about making money and drawing fans (wwe universe lulz) to the shows, and you could argue Cena is the only individual draw even left in wrestling today.

 

Cena is a better performer than anyone gives him credit for, he puts on **** matches on a PPV basis, cuts good promos despite being given borderline-crap to work with, and he has single handedly made Wade Barrett arguably the biggest heel in the company in a matter of 6 months. It is just cool to hate Cena because he caters to the kids and ushered in the PG-era, but Hogan was the same thing back in the 80's from what I understand. I am not a Cena fan at all, but I still respect the amount of talent he has and what he has done for the business.

 

When all is said and done, Cena is easily a top 5 WWE superstar ever. You stick him in the attitude era, when wrestling was cool, and we most likely aren't even having this debate.

So, Cena draws money and is the face of an era that is obviously dying? I don't buy that as the reason to stick him above guys like Flair (who is the most hated heel in wrestling history) and anyone else on that list. Sting and Flair were the WCW. Those two literally put a federation on the map, something Cena wouldn't be able to do.

 

I don't care how many wristbands and shirts Cena sells. The 10-12 wrestlers I named were ALL better in the ring, half (or more) better on the mic, had many more epic and historical battles/matches/rivalries, and fought in eras that would stick Cena into the Intercontinental champ division at the peak of his career.

 

Top ten wrestler is out of reach, in my opinion, but someone can argue that he barely slides in there. Top five of all-time? That's insane. He'll never touch what at least five of those guys did throughout their careers, and I will state this over and over again because I watched wrestling religiously since I was six (back in 1989), and I've seen enough of Cena to say he doesn't even come close to those guys.

 

Come on, though...Cena defeated Bradshaw (who should always be a tag team partner) and Edge (same) to get his first two WWE titles. He was in a storyline with Kevin Federline, and I'm pretty sure he also lost a match against him as well. He held the title for so long due to the fact that Vince had no talent to actually come in and take it away from him (other than Orton). For years, the WWE has been living off of Cena and Orton, and the quality of wrestling has taken a hit. Cena has been getting booed because it really is the same thing with him, every time he wrestles. His first boos were from fans thinking the same thing (actually saying it, if I remember right). By the time he was out of the Intercontinental title scene, all of the elite wrestlers were either too old to matter, or they had left the company.

 

I stopped watching wrestling because of guys like Cena. His new storyline, with the mask...going to be awful. It was Hogan's only mistake of his career (Mr. America), but it has also been done over and over again by other wrestlers (ex. Brian Pillman), and Cena's roid-raged body makes it as obvious as Hogan's 24-inch super-tanned arms and golden mustache did.

 

Jeff Hardy, Jack Swagger, Bradshaw, Guerrero, Sheamus, The Miz, Edge...how the [expletive] were any of these guys World/WWE champions, ever? I understand Cena winning it because he is a superstar among those guys, but over the last decade, Vince has seen his company hit rock bottom (no pun intended) a few times too many. He needs a miracle. If that means bringing in another reckless super-villain (like HHH was at one point) to generate hate and anger, or a D-X or NWO clone that's actually more legit than Nexus, or even a face that knows how to wrestle and is intimidating and generates excitement (like the Rock), so be it...but I don't see how Cena is the answer for anything right now, unless he's going to put someone over that's well-deserving of a title and potentially leaving a legacy that will be remembered 40 years later.

[BasX]

- Barret doesn't re-instate Cena

- Nexus leaves Barrett

- Plans his next move

- Interferes with Miz-Orton match

- Triple threat at Royal Rumble

- Barrett wins title

- Cena wins Royal Rumble

- Wrestlemania Main event

 

Maybe?

[CaliCurbStomppa]

Well they want Wade to start a program with The Undertaker for Wrestlemania. If not maybe he will fight Triple H.

 

BTW WWE trying very hard to push young stars because guys like HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Christian, Kane are getting older and some others. Cena & Orton definitely the top 2 superstars that will put WWE behind their back. Sheamus has a bright future. The Miz is looking nice even though people aren't accepting him as WWE Champion but that guy is so gifted on the mic even though he cant really wrestle. Jack Swagger is a guy that could be very promising. Alberto Del Rio is a guy they are trying very hard since Rey won't likely sign with WWE after his current deal is done. Daniel Bryan will be up there he just isn't ready yet. Hopefully John Morrison too. I really hope they can give him a run for the money because Morrison been on a roll for the last few months. It going to be interesting the next few years because Undertaker may retire after this Wrestlemania.. Edge been hinting that he wants retire in two years because each injury he suffers make it harder for him to get back. Triple H been promoted to an Executive position within WWE and now working in the office and he going to be done soon but knowing Triple H i think he could be good for the business after Vince is done since he's more old school.

[BasX]

A hybrid of Swagger and Miz would sell so hard.

[Real Deal]

Quick question: I heard the name "Billy Kidman" the other night (think it was last week's Raw), and I swear they associated it with him writing for the WWE.

 

Is that Billy Kidman, the former wrestler?

[Dash]

Why would you want Cena gone? He is the best superstar in the world, and is a top 10 superstar of all-time. He might not be a great technician but he still puts on great matches and is one of the best on the mic ever, he just has horrible material to work with and people hate him because he sucks up to the crowd. As soon as he goes heel all the internet fans will love him.

 

What? I heard him on the mic yesterday with Barrett and he was god awful, one of the worst I've ever seen from a WWE/F star. His impressions and attempts to be funny are cringe worthy.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Dash

[Check my Stats]

Cena would NEVER be stuck at the intercontinental level, not ever. First of all, people bought into his character almost immediately when he came to the WWE (or WWF whatever it was at the time), and he was super over with his rapper gimmick. Second of all, he has the look that very few have, which honestly is half the battle and why guys like HBK and Flair aren't as big as guys like Hogan and Warrior, who couldn't wrestle but got by on their look and aura). The guy is HUGE and has coordination in the ring, his skills have come a long long way too (he used to be [expletive], he is competent now). And by this point, he is a good enough worker to be relied upon to put on good solid matches nightly.

 

Also for the mask, I think that is just for house shows. People paid to see John Cena, you take him out of the show and they are gonna be pissed. It hasn't even been mentioned on TV.

 

If Cena was in the attitude era, he definitely wouldn't have 9 titles or whatever it is he has, since the talent pool was so much deeper, but how is it fair to hold the lack of talent currently in the WWE against Cena? He still would have gotten over (it was way easier to get over from 99-02). You take Cena out today and there is NOTHING, and then WWE might actually be threatened by TNA. Hardy was the 2nd most over wrestler in the WWE, goes to TNA, no one cares. Cena is the only individual draw really left in wrestling with any sort of crossover appeal to the media.

 

Cena isn't really the 'answer', and that isn't really what I am saying. But he is still the biggest name in wrestling and has been for a while, saying Cena can't wrestle got old in 2007, because if you watch him now, he can clearly work a match. Rock couldn't wrestle, but that didn't stop him from having classic matches did it?

 

If you are going to say Flair is > Cena, you pretty much have to say he is > Hogan too, because Hogan and Cena are practically one in the same, just in different time periods. Cena is only 33 years old, Orton is like 30, they have time to develop new stars, but the WWE will still be rough to watch.

 

What I would love to see is the guys get more freedom on the mic to talk, similar to TNA and how it was in the attitude era. Let guys develop their characters more. Steve Austin said something like, his character was just an exaggerated extension of himself, so he basically believed everything he said on the mic, and that is what feels like is missing today. There are some talented guys in the WWE, they just suck on the mic because they are reading off a script.

[Real Deal]

Dude, Hogan is on another planet. I don't see how anyone could EVER stick Hogan in the same sentence as Cena.

 

And you don't consider Flair a bigger superstar than Cena? Come on.

 

Maybe you like Cena a little too much, or maybe not at all (I have no idea, really), but Hogan made an impact no other wrestler has ever touched, especially during the Gulf War, when he was "at war" with Slaughter and supporting America. Him turning heel was also one of the greatest moments in wrestling history, not to mention him slamming Andre in front of 90,000+ people and those two literally being the reason the WWF was put back on national TV.

 

Cena has done absolutely NOTHING when it comes to Hogan's accomplishments.

 

I won't need to go into detail about Flair. He's arguably the greatest technical wrestler ever, formed the most hated stable of all-time in the Four Horsemen (some will argue NWO, which is fine), and Flair wrestled anyone in any match, lost to anyone, and cut himself open anytime. Didn't matter the age. He has done more for wrestling, the sport, than Cena has done for the WWF/WWE, and that's not even debatable.

[Dash]

I don't hate Cena as a wrestler (his finisher looks weak but he's decent) but I absolutely hate how the WWE and the creative staff portray him as a Mary Sue. I would love to see Cena go heel though.

 

As a far as the Attitude Era, I agree with Real Deal that Cena would mostly be stuck in the Intercontinental division. However, I can see him getting one or two reigns near the end of the Attitude era like we saw with Chris Jericho (Y2J was easily the better wrestler though) except maybe shorter reigns.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Dash

[Real Deal]

I don't hate Cena as a wrestler (his finisher looks weak but he's decent) but I absolutely hate how the WWE and the creative staff portray him as a Mary Sue. I would love to see Cena go heel though.

If Cena went heel, he would have to really go hard on the mic. I'm thinking Triple H, in Cena's body, where a lot of his hate would have to come from the fans, and delivered TO the fans from him. A heel version of Cena that only took his anger out on other wrestlers would basically be him right now, but instead of going after Nexus, he would be trying to topple faces (don't know of anyone off the top of my head, just now started watching wrestling again). The female fans would still like him because they think he's cute, and while he would lose a few of those female fans, there will be male fans that start to like him a little more, as opposed to hating him due to how he has never changed. Same Cena.

 

The WWE needs a heel that the fans truly hate, and a face that every single fan loves. It seems like nobody knows which one Orton is, half of the crowd likes Cena, and...I don't know...it's just not there.

 

I'll put it this way: back in the day, when my friends and I would talk wrestling, we would be talking how someone needs to destroy the Nexus (assuming they were around in the late 90s), not how they need to be better-represented in the business. When Hogan dropped a leg on Macho Man, it was devastating. Fans were throwing cups, booing, absolutely HATING a man that breathed life back into wrestling in the 80s and early 90s.

 

But, it was good...and that's what Vince needs.