#6 Player of the League

[*Swish*]

1.Kobe

2.LeBron

3. Wade

4. Kevin Durant

5. Chris Paul

6. YOU VOTE

 

Explain why you vote for the player you chose.

Edited December 10, 2010 by *Swish*

[Big Penny]

Melo.

[Warren2ThaG]

Dwight, but he smiles a lot and jokes too much. CMON BIG MAN

[headliner]

Dirk is playing like an MVP show him some love here.

[EastCoastNiner]

I'm voting for Amare Stoudemire without a doubt.

[*Swish*]

tough choice but I'm going to go with Melo. Even though this guy is injured, he's still a beast and he comes big when it matters the most. He's a good post up player, is strong and is not scared to bring it to the rim

[Newman]

After the top 4 players it gets a bit blurry for me, but I am going to say Dwight.

[fish7718]

Dwight may not even be a top 6 player on that list, let a lone a top 6 player in the league.

 

Close between Melo and Deron, I'll go Melo simply because I refuse to let Dwight be #6

[*Swish*]

Only 15 votes for player #6 ?

[Guest STL10]

Dirk EASILY!

[Jenneral]

Andrew Bogut. ^_^

[Nitro]

It's close between Dwight, Deron, Melo and Dirk. I'll go with Dwight, he's the most dominant defensive player in the league, he's an elite rebounder, and despite his limited (but improving) offensive arsenal, he still gives you over 20PPG on nearly 60% shooting. He's also proven he's a player you can build a perennial championship contender around.

[fish7718]

It's close between Dwight, Deron, Melo and Dirk. I'll go with Dwight, he's the most dominant defensive player in the league, he's an elite rebounder, and despite his limited (but improving) offensive arsenal, he still gives you over 20PPG on nearly 60% shooting. He's also proven he's a player you can build a perennial championship contender around.

I'm shocked you're going with Dwight, as you mentioned his offensive arsenal is very limited and not only that but he is a horrid passer, even for a big man, a turn over machine and a bad FT shooter. In terms of value to a team maybe he's top 10, still probably not better to a team. In terms of a player a lone skill set taken into consideration he's awful. I'd take all 3 of the guys you said over him and perhaps even Gasol and Duncan. Maybe not Duncan anymore he finally seems to be one the decline.

[Nitro]

I'm shocked you're going with Dwight, as you mentioned his offensive arsenal is very limited and not only that but he is a horrid passer, even for a big man, a turn over machine and a bad FT shooter. In terms of value to a team maybe he's top 10, still probably not better to a team. In terms of a player a lone skill set taken into consideration he's awful. I'd take all 3 of the guys you said over him and perhaps even Gasol and Duncan. Maybe not Duncan anymore he finally seems to be one the decline.

 

As I said, despite a limited offensive arsenal (which has clearly been getting better if you've watched him this season), he still gives you over 20PPG on nearly 60% shooting. It may not be pretty, but it is effective. Because of how effective he is around the rim, it opens up everything for the guys on the perimeter, and as a result they are statistically one of the greatest 3pt shooting teams of all-time (I don't know if that's the case so far this season, but the last few years that's been the case). So, even if he is only getting 1-2 assists, he is still opening things up for teammates.

 

But of course his defense and rebounding is what puts him so high. I cannot stress enough how impactful he is on that side of the ball. The Magic have been a top 3 defense in the league each of the last 3 seasons, including this season, with Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter/Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and other average to below average defenders built around him. If that doesn't represent just how dominant he is on defense and how far ahead he is of guys like Deron/Melo/Dirk/Gasol in that regard, then I don't know what does. Also, with Lewis as the starting PF, the team still destroys other teams on the glass, which once again is all Dwight.

 

Lastly, as I said, he's already proven he can be the best player on a Finals squad, and that wasn't a team that had a ton of talent. Dwight's impact is huge, and even if you want to argue pure skill, his size, strength and athleticism makes those differences negligible. He's the best big man in the game.

[Flash]

Dwight. No one changes a game on the defensive end like he does and his offensive game is much better than its ever been.

[fish7718]

As I said, despite a limited offensive arsenal (which has clearly been getting better if you've watched him this season), he still gives you over 20PPG on nearly 60% shooting. It may not be pretty, but it is effective. Because of how effective he is around the rim, it opens up everything for the guys on the perimeter, and as a result they are statistically one of the greatest 3pt shooting teams of all-time (I don't know if that's the case so far this season, but the last few years that's been the case). So, even if he is only getting 1-2 assists, he is still opening things up for teammates.

 

But of course his defense and rebounding is what puts him so high. I cannot stress enough how impactful he is on that side of the ball. The Magic have been a top 3 defense in the league each of the last 3 seasons, including this season, with Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter/Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and other average to below average defenders built around him. If that doesn't represent just how dominant he is on defense and how far ahead he is of guys like Deron/Melo/Dirk/Gasol in that regard, then I don't know what does. Also, with Lewis as the starting PF, the team still destroys other teams on the glass, which once again is all Dwight.

 

Lastly, as I said, he's already proven he can be the best player on a Finals squad, and that wasn't a team that had a ton of talent. Dwight's impact is huge, and even if you want to argue pure skill, his size, strength and athleticism makes those differences negligible. He's the best big man in the game.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Orlando is a great shooting team it's not just Dwight, it's Dwight combed with some of the better shooters in the NBA, Shard Lewis was one of if not the best 3 point shooter before he came to Orlando. I agree Dwight is definitely great and yes puts up 20 and 12 but it has been proven if you let Dwight get his focus on stopping the other guys on his team he cannot get it done by himself, he is not complete enough a player. That is why I'd take the other guys over him, yes they may no have as big an impact as he does in someways but they are complete players. A lot of Dwights value comes with from the teammates he plays with, you stick him on some other teams and he's nowhere near as valuable. However he players with 3 shooters on the floor at all time, and even then he can't pass to the shooters. Deron Duncan Melo Gasol Dirk, all much more complete players.

 

BTW your argument about defense, does that mean you think Ben Wallace deserves to be a HoF? In his prime he was a better defender than Dwight and you can argue he led that pistons team to the finals by letting everyone playing tight man to man D. J/W...

Edited December 12, 2010 by STATCity

[Flash]

Ben Wallace was a great defender, but he never impacted a game defensively like Dwight does. Dwight's offensive game as a rookie is also light-years ahead of Wallace's at any point during his career so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that comparison. To discount Dwight's defense would be absurd.

[fish7718]

Ben Wallace was a great defender, but he never impacted a game defensively like Dwight does. Dwight's offensive game as a rookie is also light-years ahead of Wallace's at any point during his career so I'm not sure what you're getting at with that comparison. To discount Dwight's defense would be absurd.

First of all, Wallace was a better defender and impacted the game more than Dwight sorry. Nobody is comparing them offensively and nobody is trying discount Dwight's defense, I said myself yes he's an amazing defender, but he's nowhere near as complete a player as the other players I named.

[Nitro]

It shouldn't surprise anyone that Orlando is a great shooting team it's not just Dwight, it's Dwight combed with some of the better shooters in the NBA, Shard Lewis was one of if not the best 3 point shooter before he came to Orlando.

 

It's not a surprise, and yes they do have some shooters, but the entire offense is based around Dwight's ability to suck defenses in. Even if he's not getting the assist, he is still opening things up for players and making them better. That is why, despite playing below the league average in pace, they broke records for 3's and were a top 10 offense without an elite #1 scoring option (Kobe, Wade, LeBron, Melo, Durant, etc..).

 

I agree Dwight is definitely great and yes puts up 20 and 12 but it has been proven if you let Dwight get his focus on stopping the other guys on his team he cannot get it done by himself, he is not complete enough a player.

 

Who can get it done by themselves? When you play teams like Boston and LA, the last 2 teams to eliminate the Magic in the post-season, you will get exposed. LeBron averaged 38/8/8 against the Magic in the 2009 ECF and the Cavs lost in 6. Wade averaged 35/6/5 against the Celtics in the first round last season and the Heat lost in 5. Bottom line is against good teams, you need that 2nd guy who can score without having plays made for him. Carter was supposed to do that after Hedo left (who made a LOT of money because of Dwight), but he's past his prime and just can't carry that load. If Kobe didn't have Gasol for those situations, he'd have only 3 rings. If Shaq didn't have Kobe for those situations, he'd have 1 ring. If the Celtics didn't have 3 guys to be that 2nd option, they'd have no rings. I can keep going on and on.

 

That is why I'd take the other guys over him, yes they may no have as big an impact as he does in someways but they are complete players. A lot of Dwights value comes with from the teammates he plays with, you stick him on some other teams and he's nowhere near as valuable. However he players with 3 shooters on the floor at all time, and even then he can't pass to the shooters. Deron Duncan Melo Gasol Dirk, all much more complete players.

 

How in the hell are Melo and Dirk more complete players? Because they have a more polished offensive arsenal? For the few extra points they are able to score, and for being better #1 guys in clutch situations, the difference in rebounding and defense is astronomical. If Melo and Dirk aren't scoring, for the most part they are doing nothing. If they are having an off shooting night, they are reduced to average role players. Meanwhile, if Dwight isn't scoring, he is still altering every single shot that comes near the rim, making up for defensive miscues by his teammates, and cleaning the glass. And when he does score, it is very efficiently.

 

As for Duncan, he is past his prime and not capable of doing the heavy lifting Dwight does on either end. Gasol never won a single playoff game on the Grizzlies, and he choked in the post-season when he was looked at as a #1 option. He is certainly more polished than Dwight, and a better overall offensive player, but the difference in their offensive games is a lot slimmer than the difference in their defensive games.

 

Deron, you can make a case for.

 

BTW your argument about defense, does that mean you think Ben Wallace deserves to be a HoF? In his prime he was a better defender than Dwight and you can argue he led that pistons team to the finals by letting everyone playing tight man to man D. J/W...

 

Wallace's prime was too short to be in the HoF, and his offensive game was literally non-existent...literally. I believe his career high in points was like 19, which isn't even Dwight's season average. Stop making Dwight out to be like he's useless offensively...he averages over 20PPG on ridiculous efficiency. He has a great spin move, a decent hook with either hand, has developed a 10ft bank shot, and near the rim he's impossible to stop.

[fish7718]

Melo and Dirk have 23 feet range on offense, Dwight 6 feet. Plus they can handle the ball and lead an offense. Dwights horrid FT efficiency cancels his great efficiency from the field. His rebounding is killed by the fact he turns it over 4 times a game. At the end of the day the other guys are just more complete.

[Flash]

Melo and Dirk have 23 feet range on offense, Dwight 6 feet. Plus they can handle the ball and lead an offense. Dwights horrid FT efficiency cancels his great efficiency from the field. His rebounding is killed by the fact he turns it over 4 times a game. At the end of the day the other guys are just more complete.

 

Maybe a more complete offensive game, but Dwight still gives you 20 a game and the difference on the defensive end is way more than the offensive end between Dwight and those 2.

 

You're also comparing the offensive games of a pure scoring 3 and a skilled PF to a traditional center. Of course Dirk and Melo are more "complete" on offense.

 

Give me Dwight's 20/10 average and defensive impact over either of those 2.

[Nitro]

Melo and Dirk have 23 feet range on offense, Dwight 6 feet. Plus they can handle the ball and lead an offense. Dwights horrid FT efficiency cancels his great efficiency from the field.

 

Shaq had 6ft of range, couldn't handle the ball and was a horrible FT shooter...what did that mean? Not too much. When you have as much of a physical advantage over your opposition as Shaq did and Dwight does, it makes whatever polished skill they develop a luxury as opposed to necessity. Dwight has really developed his post game and can score in more ways than he's given credit for, but his raw ability around the rim makes him a 20PPG scorer on amazing efficiency from the field, and forces teams to foul him 11x per game, which absolutely destroys teams with shallow front lines.

 

And how does Dwight's poor FT shooting negate his great efficiency from the field? He takes 13 shots to get 22PPG...that's insanely efficient. His true shooting percentage (FG% + FT%) is still over 5% higher than Melo's, and equal to Dirk's usual TS% (although this year he's been WAYYYY more efficient than he ever has, but I expect that to balance out by season's end).

 

His rebounding is killed by the fact he turns it over 4 times a game.

 

Is Amare and Durant's scoring negated by the fact that they turn it over just as much/more than Dwight? No, that's silly, and unlike with bringing up their scoring in relation to turnovers, Dwight's rebounding has NO CORRELATION with his turnovers. I could also flip the script and say Melo's low shooting percentages negate his scoring volume, and Durant's inability to show up in clutch situations make his scoring production hollow. However, unlike Dwight, if you take away their scoring production, they don't make a big impact on any other area of the game. With Dwight, even if you take away his defense and rebounding, which are a lot more consistent than Durant/Melo's scoring, he's still giving you 20PPG on strong efficiency. If you play him straight-up with no double teams, that number increases. If you double team him, you risk getting rained on by all the Magic's 3pt shooters. If you match Dwight with a guy that can create his own shot effectively, the Magic are right there with the Heat/Lakers/Celtics as true championship contenders. He's the easiest player in the NBA to build a championship team around IMO.

[AllenIverson#1fan]

Melo but it's close.

[*Swish*]

tied between Melo and Dwight Howard! we need more members to vote so we can move on to number 7

[fish7718]

Shaq had 6ft of range, couldn't handle the ball and was a horrible FT shooter...what did that mean? Not too much. When you have as much of a physical advantage over your opposition as Shaq did and Dwight does, it makes whatever polished skill they develop a luxury as opposed to necessity. Dwight has really developed his post game and can score in more ways than he's given credit for, but his raw ability around the rim makes him a 20PPG scorer on amazing efficiency from the field, and forces teams to foul him 11x per game, which absolutely destroys teams with shallow front lines.

 

And how does Dwight's poor FT shooting negate his great efficiency from the field? He takes 13 shots to get 22PPG...that's insanely efficient. His true shooting percentage (FG% + FT%) is still over 5% higher than Melo's, and equal to Dirk's usual TS% (although this year he's been WAYYYY more efficient than he ever has, but I expect that to balance out by season's end).

 

 

 

Is Amare and Durant's scoring negated by the fact that they turn it over just as much/more than Dwight? No, that's silly, and unlike with bringing up their scoring in relation to turnovers, Dwight's rebounding has NO CORRELATION with his turnovers. I could also flip the script and say Melo's low shooting percentages negate his scoring volume, and Durant's inability to show up in clutch situations make his scoring production hollow. However, unlike Dwight, if you take away their scoring production, they don't make a big impact on any other area of the game. With Dwight, even if you take away his defense and rebounding, which are a lot more consistent than Durant/Melo's scoring, he's still giving you 20PPG on strong efficiency. If you play him straight-up with no double teams, that number increases. If you double team him, you risk getting rained on by all the Magic's 3pt shooters. If you match Dwight with a guy that can create his own shot effectively, the Magic are right there with the Heat/Lakers/Celtics as true championship contenders. He's the easiest player in the NBA to build a championship team around IMO.

You're nuts, the Magic have been trying to build a championship team for years with Dwight, they made the finals once. Sorry I had no interest in reading this when you compared Shaq's offensive game to Dwight's offensive game, what an insult.

 

I guess if you base it off #'s and #'s you can make a case for Dwight but I look far past numbers I look at skills, the other guys have a lot more developed skills than Dwight and I've said it a few teams now and I'll say it again, they are more complete players.

Edited December 13, 2010 by STATCity