Phightins Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'm not talking about liking or hating the guy. I'm talking about the ungratefulness for what he did while he was there, along with a myriad of other accusations, assumptions, and blinded hate. I don't think any of that is unjustified. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. It's easy to be critical as a neutral fan with no emotional/financial investment in the Cavaliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't think any of that is unjustified. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. It's easy to be critical as a neutral fan with no emotional/financial investment in the Cavaliers. I'm a Nets fan. I put up with years and years of suckage (as a season ticket holder), before they finally got good. Even though circumstances were very different from the Cavs/LeBron saga, I would have given anything back in the '90's and early '00's for the team to be good, even if it meant getting embarassed on national television 7 years later. My point being is that half the teams in the league have never had a 7 year run as the Cavs just had, and even if they didn't win a championship and got dumped on on national TV, the fans should still be grateful. It's really a slap in the face to fans of other teams who have never had that kind of success, and never got to see a player that's LeBron's caliber grow into a top 2 player (at worst). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YugoRocketsFan Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Never got God in sports because there are so many teams and players so does that mean God only loves champions? God doesn't care about sports, he only cares about people picketing other's funerals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'm a Nets fan. I put up with years and years of suckage (as a season ticket holder), before they finally got good. Even though circumstances were very different from the Cavs/LeBron saga, I would have given anything back in the '90's and early '00's for the team to be good, even if it meant getting embarassed on national television 7 years later. My point being is that half the teams in the league have never had a 7 year run as the Cavs just had, and even if they didn't win a championship and got dumped on on national TV, the fans should still be grateful. It's really a slap in the face to fans of other teams who have never had that kind of success, and never got to see a player that's LeBron's caliber grow into a top 2 player (at worst). As a 76ers season ticket holder myself, I understand what you are saying and am going through that phase right now. But this LeBron situation is a never-before-seen type of thing. It isn't just a superstar free agent leaving for another team. He disrespected the Cavaliers and held the fanbase hostage for the sake of his self-promoting "Decision". I see no problem with the fans responding the way they have. It's like having a long-time girlfriend/boyfriend dump you in the most embarrassing way possible, ruin your reputation, etc etc. Did you enjoy the time you were together? Sure. But is your first reaction upon being dumped going to be "it's OK, I am so grateful for the time we had together!"? Doubtful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 As a 76ers season ticket holder myself, I understand what you are saying and am going through that phase right now. But this LeBron situation is a never-before-seen type of thing. It isn't just a superstar free agent leaving for another team. He disrespected the Cavaliers and held the fanbase hostage for the sake of his self-promoting "Decision". I see no problem with the fans responding the way they have. It's like having a long-time girlfriend/boyfriend dump you in the most embarrassing way possible, ruin your reputation, etc etc. Did you enjoy the time you were together? Sure. But is your first reaction upon being dumped going to be "it's OK, I am so grateful for the time we had together!"? Doubtful. I agree that they are completely justified in hating him, but it drives me nuts how ungrateful and entitled they appear, and how many (not all) of them act like the last 7 years never happened. And as bad as the Decision was, the backlash LeBron has received from media and fans alike, Gilbert's letter, and the rest kind of evens the game. That's why I have 0 sympathy for LeBron, Gilbert, the Cavs franchise and fanbase. The whole situation is just a cluster[expletive]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 13, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 No way. Pretty much any team could have given LeBron those same luxories, he would have had God-like fan support, and still would have received Nike contracts and such. However, not every superstar could do what he did for that team. MAYBE Kobe, and MAYBE Wade...that's it, and I think even those two are stretching it.He had two 60-win seasons. Before that, two seasons of just 50 wins, one 45 and one 42, and a 35. You're making it sound like he won them multiple championships and created a dynasty. LeBron hasn't even done as much as Dirk Nowitzki has for Dallas. And, again, the team was built specifically for him, designed in the same way the Sixers were for Iverson. Same exact concept. He was basically the GM, and approved of everything that went down. He wanted Shaq, made a big deal about the acquisition. Him and Daniel Gibson were butt buddies. It's not what he did for the team itself, but for the franchise. It's all negated with what he did TO the franchise. He lets them know he's leaving, exploring FA options and not going to return to Cleveland, fans wouldn't have been embarrassed. I think Cleveland fans had a feeling he wasn't going to stay to begin with, but putting it on national television, making everyone sit on their hands and chew their fingernails, not telling anyone and giving Cleveland (the front office) hope that he'll return so they wouldn't have to go looking for max contracts, OR trying to work out a deal like Denver is doing right now...lol, it's not even up for debate, in my opinion. His jersey deserved to be burned by the fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well, before tonight’s game against the Clippers James said there was nothing personal about it at all. What were you thinking? He was just passing along some Karma he had felt from others. “Don’t look at it too far,” James said. “No hit on that organization. I’ve moved on… “I don’t think it was no intent at all. I think everyone looks into everything I say. Everybody looked too far into it.”http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/12/lebron-says-nothing-personal-in-tweet-about-cleveland/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) He had two 60-win seasons. Before that, two seasons of just 50 wins, one 45 and one 42, and a 35. You're making it sound like he won them multiple championships and created a dynasty. Those were the first 2 60 win seasons in franchise history, and in one of those 50 win seasons he got the team to the Finals. He did this in 7 years out of HS, without a 2nd legitimate All-Star. LeBron hasn't even done as much as Dirk Nowitzki has for Dallas. Nowitzki has/had Nash, Finley, Harris, Butler, [young] Jamison, [old] Kidd, Terry (who is on the same level, if not better than Mo), etc... In 10+ years he has been past the 2nd round twice, the same amount as LeBron did in 7 seasons. Bron won one more MVP, earned Cleveland a lot more money and attention than Dirk did Dallas, and had a lot less help over the years. And, again, the team was built specifically for him, designed in the same way the Sixers were for Iverson. Same exact concept. He was basically the GM, and approved of everything that went down. He wanted Shaq, made a big deal about the acquisition. Him and Daniel Gibson were butt buddies. The Rockets were built perfectly around the T-Mac/Yao duo, too...but without TALENT that 'perfect fit' only gets you so far. The Cavs never got a player in 7 seasons that could create his own shot besides LeBron, or at least do so with any kind of efficiency. If they had gotten, say, Ray Allen instead of Mo, who could create his own shot as well as nail spot-up 3's, that would have made a huge difference. I'm just throwing a name out there, but without legitimate talent, it doesn't matter how well you fit together...as seen with the Heat completely dominating teams earlier in the season when they had less chemistry than their opposition. In the post-season, against great teams, putting a bunch of one-dimensional shooter and defenders around a superstar doesn't cut it, and you know that. It's not what he did for the team itself, but for the franchise. It's all negated with what he did TO the franchise. He lets them know he's leaving, exploring FA options and not going to return to Cleveland, fans wouldn't have been embarrassed. I think Cleveland fans had a feeling he wasn't going to stay to begin with, but putting it on national television, making everyone sit on their hands and chew their fingernails, not telling anyone and giving Cleveland (the front office) hope that he'll return so they wouldn't have to go looking for max contracts, OR trying to work out a deal like Denver is doing right now...lol, it's not even up for debate, in my opinion. His jersey deserved to be burned by the fans. I'm sorry, but that slap in the face shouldn't outweigh the best 7 years the franchise ever had....the kind of run half the league's franchises have never had. To feel you are entitled to a championship, and to put all the blame on LeBron for their post-season losses rather than what the franchise did to put the other 11 guys around him, is pathetic and IMO offensive to fans of teams like the Nets, Wolves, Raptors, Clippers, etc... Edited January 13, 2011 by Nitro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 lol at Lebron trying to defend himself, he's almost as bad as KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 13, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Nobody said they were entitled to a championship. They only felt that way AFTER he did what he did to them. Nobody would've had a problem with LeBron had he stayed in Cleveland and made the attempt to do what he promised to do, and that's obvious. I don't care who Dirk had on his team. Hakeem Olajuwon won a championship with Otis Thorpe (who was out of his prime) and Vernon Maxwell (who sucked that season) as his teammates. James didn't accomplish a miraculous feat that no other player reached, and he didn't bring it home at the end of the day. The dude is making himself look even more ignorant every day, and we still have people trying to take up for him? Cleveland has every right to be pissed off, and for him to leave with a middle finger in the air, they can do the same and state over and over again why their respect for him has gone out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Nobody said they were entitled to a championship. They only felt that way AFTER he did what he did to them. Nobody would've had a problem with LeBron had he stayed in Cleveland and made the attempt to do what he promised to do, and that's obvious.He did everything he possibly could in Cleveland. Had he stayed, they would have reached their full potential this year as a top 3 team in the East with a second or third round exit in the playoffs. They were no where near the Celtics IMO. I don't care who Dirk had on his team. Hakeem Olajuwon won a championship with Otis Thorpe (who was out of his prime) and Vernon Maxwell (who sucked that season) as his teammates. James didn't accomplish a miraculous feat that no other player reached, and he didn't bring it home at the end of the day.Just for the record, that year, there wasn't a team really with 2 superstars. It was NY with Ewing (Starks wasn't a star or any sort of), Orlando with a young Shaq (and pre-prime Penny), Atlanta (by the time playoff came, they had no superstar), Chicago with Pippen, San Antonio with Robinson, Seattle with pre-prime Kemp and Payton (before Payton's 20 ppg years). Well, technically Malone&Stockton, or Barkley&Johnson (though they both had injuries) could be a classic two superstar combo, but they are also part of the "group of superstars who could never win", not just in that year. What I'm trying to say is, that Olajuwon's single-handed championship came when the league was "in between" the post-Lakers, Celtics, Bulls era and the pre-Bulls, Spurs, Lakers era. And really, those two Rockets teams were designed like the Cavs. Strong defensive team with great role players around their one true star player. And they all had several players that were able to stretch the floor. The dude is making himself look even more ignorant every day, and we still have people trying to take up for him? Cleveland has every right to be pissed off, and for him to leave with a middle finger in the air, they can do the same and state over and over again why their respect for him has gone out the window.LeBron is a genuine douche bag, we all know this, but I don't really think that's what at debate here. The real story is the fact that Cleveland has completely forgotten about the past 7 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) AL has pretty much everything covered. Just one thing... Nobody said they were entitled to a championship. They only felt that way AFTER he did what he did to them. Nobody would've had a problem with LeBron had he stayed in Cleveland and made the attempt to do what he promised to do, and that's obvious. Why should they have felt that way after leaving? LeBron exercised his right as a FA. The Decision was very, very poorly done, but LeBron owed the Cavs NOTHING. They knew there was a good chance he was gone 2 years prior to the 2010 off-season, failed to give him another star sidekick, and are now feeling the consequences. LeBron made a stupid statement by saying he'd bring the Cavs a championship, but the Cavs knew if they didn't win last season then he was likely gone. People are just using any little thing they can to assasinate his character, which is fine (BTW, why did no one mention that statement by him during FA? People only bring it up after the fact because they hate he went to Miami to form a super-team, not because it has any substantial meaning), but it doesn't change all the amazing things he did for the franchise. Edited January 13, 2011 by Nitro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 13, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 They felt that way after he left because of the way he left. Why do I even have to say that? Shaq demanded $28 million or more a year from Buss, and he was quoted as saying that, if he didn't get it in the extension, he wanted dealt. It pissed off Lakers fans. I can only imagine what it would've been like if Shaq went through the process James did. Nobody has to assassinate his character. He's doing that all himself, willingly. He started doing that long before the FA period, actually. And, I never said he didn't do anything for Cleveland. In fact, somewhere on here or on TLN, I stated that LeBron was the best NBA player they've ever had, and one of the best athletes in Cleveland history. BUT, that doesn't mean anything in the eyes of those fans because of the way he left, and they have the right to hate him, not necessarily hate on his game (because anyone who does that doesn't watch basketball), but to constantly remind him he never won a ring here, to remind him he backed out of a promise, and to remind him that he's now considered Mega-Pippen (kudos to Kyle for that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 They felt that way after he left because of the way he left. Why do I even have to say that? Why does him being a douche about the Decision make the Cleveland fanbase feel entitled to a championship? That's silly. Shaq demanded $28 million or more a year from Buss, and he was quoted as saying that, if he didn't get it in the extension, he wanted dealt. It pissed off Lakers fans. I can only imagine what it would've been like if Shaq went through the process James did. They still fully recognize what he did for the team, and acknowledge him as arguably the most dominant player ever during his tenure with the Lakers. Meanwhile, you have fans like Cleveland Finest who post pictures of themselves on here wearing "LeBron James MVP" shirts a few months ago now saying guys like Durant are better players. He's just an example. Look around and the same attitude is everywhere among Cavs fans. It's pathetic. And, I never said he didn't do anything for Cleveland. In fact, somewhere on here or on TLN, I stated that LeBron was the best NBA player they've ever had, and one of the best athletes in Cleveland history. BUT, that doesn't mean anything in the eyes of those fans because of the way he left, and they have the right to hate him, not necessarily hate on his game (because anyone who does that doesn't watch basketball), but to constantly remind him he never won a ring here, to remind him he backed out of a promise, and to remind him that he's now considered Mega-Pippen (kudos to Kyle for that). Lol...they are justified to hate him. But to be so damn ungrateful about the experience they had the last 7 years with him on the team, the kind of experience over half the league hasn't had the luxory of having, is what pisses me off. It's a slap in the face to us, and quite frankly it makes me sick. Talk is talk...bottom line is when LeBron stepped on the court, he dominated. He led them to their first 60+ win seasons. Led them to their first Finals. Won back-to-back MVP's. Brought the franchise out of the slums, gave them notoriety and earned the team and city a crapload of money. Ultimately what people say in sports don't have much meaning, the only thing that truly matters is how they perform. And LeBron was unbelievable in his time with the Cavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 13, 2011 Owner Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Why does him being a douche about the Decision make the Cleveland fanbase feel entitled to a championship? That's silly. Not necessarily feel entitled to one, but they have the right to remind him that he never won one in Cleveland, like he said he was going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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