Mid-Season Awards

[The Regime]

MVP: Derrick Rose

Coach of the Year: Tom Thibodeau

Defensive Player of the Year: Dwight Howard

Most Improved: Wes Matthews

6th man: Lamar Odom

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings

Biggest Surprise (player or team): San Antonio Spurs

 

First League All-Team:

C: Dwight Howard

PF: Amare Stoudemire

SF: Kevin Durant

SG: Kobe Bryant

PG: Derrick Rose

 

Finals Guess:

 

Lakers vs. Celtics

[AboveLegit]

The Suns had the best record in the league when Charles won the MVP, while putting up awesome numbers. Nash was a similar case, and in 2005-2006 he was without Amare the entire season and still led that team farther than these Bulls will go. Right now the Bulls have the 5th best record in the league; it's not like the Bulls are on pace for 60+ wins.

..but by your definition, Jordan should have won it because he was the best player in the league, right?

 

Nash winning the MVP the first time was a joke. In no way was he more valuable than Dirk was to the Mavs that season, absolutely no way.

 

And even without Amare the next year he won the award, Nash had Marion playing at a superstar level and a terrific supporting cast. They had the second best offense in the league and a very solid defense. We're talking about a guy who never was a top 5 player during his MVP years and was/is a complete liability on defense.

 

And you don't know whether or not Rose can lead the Bulls farther than Nash did with the Suns those years. This is a kid who has never missed the playoffs and has the ability to dominate games when needed. And we know he can show up in the playoffs and compete with the best.

 

If Rose wins, it will be a mini-Iverson situation, which was a disgrace. It won't be as bad as the year Iverson won, but I think it'd still be a mistake.

How is Iverson winning it a disgrace? We're talking about a career season for one of the greatest guards in the history of this league. Not to mention he lead his team, very similar to LeBron when he won his 2 MVP's in Cleveland.

 

Duncan to me was 3rd with Shaq being the close runner-up, but Iverson amazed me that year. He had a VERY good defensive center starting with Theo Ratliff until injury, and ending with Mutumbo who Ratliff was traded for after his injury. But what else was there??? Aaron McKie was solid, Eric Snow was not quite average and when you look at scoring support you really don't find much outside of Iverson.

 

He carried that team to the Finals and I honestly believe that without him they would have been no higher than a mid-ranged lottery team. I credit Larry Brown a great deal for making it all work but all in all I have never seen a more single-player-dominated team in my 19 years of following the NBA who made the Finals other than Iverson's Sixers except for last year's Lebron dominated Cavs, and AI had the stronger regular season record.

 

I worded it wrong. By that I meant the 2 best players in the game are not a PG, they are at SG (Kobe or Wade) and SF (LeBron). CP3 is at best the 4th best player in the league, and Rose is not a better player than him either. So, that would mean that a non-top 5 player, who didn't win his team 60+ games, will get the MVP award...does that seem right to you?

The MVP should come from one of the better teams in the league and to a player that really raised his game so that team could be one of the elite teams in the league. And there are special cases for each player, so being the best player or a top 5 player should have no barring on who should be named MVP.

 

Between Kobe, Garnett, Shaq, and Duncan they've only won 5 MVP's and they've absolutely dominated a decade and a half in basketball. What does that tell you?

 

Besides, was Nash really a top 5 player in 04-05? Garnett, Iverson, Kobe, Tmac, Duncan, and Dirk were all playing better than him.

[Nitro]

..but by your definition, Jordan should have won it because he was the best player in the league, right?

 

Barkley put up 25/12/5 and led the Suns to 5 more wins than the Bulls had that year, with arguably a worse supporting cast than Jordan had. Rose's team is not going to be winning 60+, his numbers aren't better than LeBron's, and his defense isn't on LeBron's level. I seriously don't know, besides the boredom of giving LeBron another MVP, what legit arguement could be made to put Rose over LeBron in the MVP standings.

 

Nash winning the MVP the first time was a joke. In no way was he more valuable than Dirk was to the Mavs that season, absolutely no way.

 

And even without Amare the next year he won the award, Nash had Marion playing at a superstar level and a terrific supporting cast. They had the second best offense in the league and a very solid defense. We're talking about a guy who never was a top 5 player during his MVP years and was/is a complete liability on defense.

 

And you don't know whether or not Rose can lead the Bulls farther than Nash did with the Suns those years. This is a kid who has never missed the playoffs and has the ability to dominate games when needed. And we know he can show up in the playoffs and compete with the best.

 

Are you serious...really?!? Nash led a team that won 29 games the season prior to 62 wins, which was the best in the league. His offense led the league in scoring by a full 7PPG. He averaged nearly 12APG and had a ridiculous TS% of 61%. Amare went from a 20PPG scorer on 53% TS% to 26PPG on 62% TS%. His value was astronomical to those teams.

 

Besides...Dirk? That season the MVP race was between Nash and Shaq. Nash most definitely was at worst an equal (IMO better), more valuable player than Dirk that season.

 

How is Iverson winning it a disgrace? We're talking about a career season for one of the greatest guards in the history of this league. Not to mention he lead his team, very similar to LeBron when he won his 2 MVP's in Cleveland.

 

Duncan to me was 3rd with Shaq being the close runner-up, but Iverson amazed me that year. He had a VERY good defensive center starting with Theo Ratliff until injury, and ending with Mutumbo who Ratliff was traded for after his injury. But what else was there??? Aaron McKie was solid, Eric Snow was not quite average and when you look at scoring support you really don't find much outside of Iverson.

 

He carried that team to the Finals and I honestly believe that without him they would have been no higher than a mid-ranged lottery team. I credit Larry Brown a great deal for making it all work but all in all I have never seen a more single-player-dominated team in my 19 years of following the NBA who made the Finals other than Iverson's Sixers except for last year's Lebron dominated Cavs, and AI had the stronger regular season record.

 

1) Iverson missed 11 games that season. How many times do you see an MVP miss double-digit games?

 

2) Even though it was one of his better years, Iverson was a VERY low efficiency scorer that season who did nothing else above averagely (besides steals). Shaq was a MONSTER that year, averaging 29/13/4/3 on strong efficiency, and he played in 3 more games than AI did. Duncan was also a much better player than AI, had elite numbers, anchored the best defense in the league, played all 82 games, and his team won the most games in the NBA.

 

The MVP should come from one of the better teams in the league and to a player that really raised his game so that team could be one of the elite teams in the league. And there are special cases for each player, so being the best player or a top 5 player should have no barring on who should be named MVP.

 

If the Bulls get the best, or 2nd best record in the league, then he has a strong case. But without either, I don't see it.

 

Between Kobe, Garnett, Shaq, and Duncan they've only won 5 MVP's and they've absolutely dominated a decade and a half in basketball. What does that tell you?

 

Kobe was on crap teams or was the 2nd option during his prime years. Ditto for KG. Duncan got 2 MVP's. Shaq won 1, deserved 2, and had it not been for injuries he could have won more. The mid '00's with Nash/Dirk winning MVP's took a perfect storm to happen.

 

Besides, was Nash really a top 5 player in 04-05? Garnett, Iverson, Kobe, Tmac, Duncan, and Dirk were all playing better than him.

 

Garnett's team didn't make the playoffs, Kobe's didn't make the playoffs and he was hurt for around 20 games, T-Mac started the season off too slow and his team only won around 50 games, Dirk wasn't better than Nash (IMO), etc...

 

This season is different. The best player in the league is playing on a team that will win 60+ games, and he's putting up the stats to back it up. Paul and Williams, arguably better players than Rose, are leading their teams to a similar record that Rose is with the Bulls. If Durant keeps up the pace he's been playing at the last 2 months, he will be at over 30PPG on insane efficiency and the Thunder will have a similar record to the Bulls.

 

Rose isn't a top 5 player in the league, and by the end of the season the Bulls will have a borderline top 5 record. That doesn't fit the parameters for an MVP.

[Oliver P]

MVP: Dirk Nowitzki

Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Defensive Player of the Year: Kevin Garnett

Most Improved: Eric Gordon

6th man: Jason Terry

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Tyreke Evans ; Cleveland Cavaliers

Biggest Surprise (player or team): Richard Jefferson ; San Antonio Spurs

 

First League All-Team:

C: Pau Gasol

PF: Dirk Nowitzki

SF: LeBron James

SG: Kobe Bryant

PG: Chris Paul

 

Finals Guess:

 

Celtics vs Mavs

[deestillballin]

lolwut

 

 

OH snaps.. I just caught that..

[Real Deal]

Your "value" to a team drops when you have other MVP candidates playing along your side. Shaq wasn't going to rack up MVP awards with Kobe next to him (and vice-versa), the same way LeBron shouldn't rack up his with Wade and Bosh.

 

Unless, of course, the MVP award is given to the best player in the NBA...and then you can make a case for James...but that's not the definition of the award, or else Bryant, Shaq, Jordan and Duncan would've dominated the list of MVP winners.

[andreusito]

MVP: Kevin Durant

Coach of the Year: Pop

Defensive Player of the Year: Dwight Howard

Most Improved: -

6th man: -

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Cleveland Cavaliers

Biggest Surprise (player or team): San Antonio Spurs

 

First League All-Team:

C: Dwight Howard

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire

SF: Kevin Durant

SG: Kobe Bryant

PG: Derrick Rose

 

Finals Guess:

 

Celtics vs Spurs

[AboveLegit]

Barkley put up 25/12/5 and led the Suns to 5 more wins than the Bulls had that year, with arguably a worse supporting cast than Jordan had.

So you agree with me...the more VALUABLE player deserves the award, not the better player?

 

Jordan was having a great year, but him and the Bulls could've probably played better that season. I mean Jordan and the Bulls at times didn't look like the same team they were that won the past 2 championships, while Charles Barkley was amazing the whole year. Jordan was definitely the best player that year, but if the MVP went to the best player in the league, then Jordan would've probably won it almost every year of his career. Maybe they should change it to that criteria, but if their going by the same criteria they've had for the past 50 years, then Barkley was the way to go.

 

Rose's team is not going to be winning 60+, his numbers aren't better than LeBron's, and his defense isn't on LeBron's level. I seriously don't know, besides the boredom of giving LeBron another MVP, what legit arguement could be made to put Rose over LeBron in the MVP standings.

Because Rose is more valuable to his team dude. You gotta understand the difference between being the better player and the more valuable player to his respective team.

 

Are you serious...really?!? Nash led a team that won 29 games the season prior to 62 wins, which was the best in the league. His offense led the league in scoring by a full 7PPG. He averaged nearly 12APG and had a ridiculous TS% of 61%. Amare went from a 20PPG scorer on 53% TS% to 26PPG on 62% TS%. His value was astronomical to those teams.

You're setting yourself up for a double standard here. Just now you mentioned LeBron being a better defender than Rose, yet you are advocating Nash's MVP award. He's one of the worst (if not the worst) defensive player to win MVP.

 

Besides...Dirk? That season the MVP race was between Nash and Shaq. Nash most definitely was at worst an equal (IMO better), more valuable player than Dirk that season.

it's a contradiction historically with the MVP award. Nash is MVP over Amare and Marion because he sets up their successes, right? Okay, then why does Karl Malone have 2 MVP wins and Stockton has never come close to 1?

 

1) Iverson missed 11 games that season. How many times do you see an MVP miss double-digit games?

Bill Walton won it while playing 58 games.

 

Two other things stick out. The first is that there really weren't too many standout players that season (or standout teams for that matter). The second is that Walton's defense was beyond phenomenal, which had a lot to do with his being named MVP, and a lot to do with the Blazers having such a great team defense. I think what I'm trying to say is that I understand picking him as the MVP that year. I just wouldn't have done it, since he missed so much time. I probably would have picked George Gervin, but I wasn't alive then, so I can't say that without being somewhat ign'ant. The fact remains, he won it while playing significantly less games than Iverson.

2) Even though it was one of his better years, Iverson was a VERY low efficiency scorer that season who did nothing else above averagely (besides steals). Shaq was a MONSTER that year, averaging 29/13/4/3 on strong efficiency, and he played in 3 more games than AI did. Duncan was also a much better player than AI, had elite numbers, anchored the best defense in the league, played all 82 games, and his team won the most games in the NBA.

He was also playing a league high 42 minutes a game on one of the most inept offenses in the league...Picture the 05-06 Lakers when Kobe was dropping 28 or so FG's a game, that's exactly what was happening in Philly. And while his FG wasn't great by any means, it was proven to be successful as he did lead them all the way to the Finals. Take him off the team, and they're a bottom seed in the East, just like the Cavs.

 

If the Bulls get the best, or 2nd best record in the league, then he has a strong case. But without either, I don't see it.

As long as he wins 50+ games or so, I don't see anything wrong with him winning it.

 

Kobe was on crap teams or was the 2nd option during his prime years. Ditto for KG. Duncan got 2 MVP's. Shaq won 1, deserved 2, and had it not been for injuries he could have won more. The mid '00's with Nash/Dirk winning MVP's took a perfect storm to happen.

But they've all been top 5 players almost every year this decade, right?

 

Garnett's team didn't make the playoffs, Kobe's didn't make the playoffs and he was hurt for around 20 games, T-Mac started the season off too slow and his team only won around 50 games, Dirk wasn't better than Nash (IMO), etc...

That's not the point. I'm focusing on your criteria for winning MVP. You are saying the MVP HAS to be a top 5 player in the league, and clearly, Nash never was. Not even on his best day is he one because he's such a liability on defense.

 

This season is different. The best player in the league is playing on a team that will win 60+ games, and he's putting up the stats to back it up. Paul and Williams, arguably better players than Rose, are leading their teams to a similar record that Rose is with the Bulls. If Durant keeps up the pace he's been playing at the last 2 months, he will be at over 30PPG on insane efficiency and the Thunder will have a similar record to the Bulls.

Durant also has a player that's in and out of the MVP discussion this year. And as stated before, Rose has been taking over games and has elevated his game this year. He may not be better than Paul and Williams, but he's certainly playing like a MVP.

Rose isn't a top 5 player in the league, and by the end of the season the Bulls will have a borderline top 5 record. That doesn't fit the parameters for an MVP.

Nash was never a top 5 player when he won. Malone and Stockton were both equally as important to that Jazz team when he won both times. I don't understand this obsession over being a top 5 player just to fit the parameters to win MVP.

[Pooh25]

MVP: Derrick Rose

Coach of the Year: Pops

Defensive Player of the Year: Dwight Howard

Most Improved: Kevin Love

6th man: Jamal Crawford

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Coach Thibodeau's rotations.

Biggest Surprise (player or team): Derrick Rose's defense.

 

First League All-Team:

C: Dwight Howard

PF: Kevin Durant

SF: LeBron James

SG: Kobe Bryant

PG: Derrick Rose

 

Finals Guess:

LAL over Celtics in 6.

[The Regime]

This is from a blogger on yahoo. Found it pretty interesting. What do you guys think?

 

Defensive Player of the Year

 

Kevin Garnett(notes), Boston Celtics

 

I hesitate with this selection, for a few reasons. Work with me.

 

I don't like picking a big name, an obvious name, from the NBA's second-best defense, once pace is accounted for. Usually, defensive dominance doesn't come down to someone you've heard of, because at times this season (and this is not a joke), Kurt Thomas(notes) has been this league's best defender for long stretches of games. Chicago is 1.8 points per 100 possessions ahead of Boston in terms of defensive efficiency, and that's a huge gap. The Bulls average just 95.3 points allowed per 100 possessions with Thomas on the court, and those are dominant numbers.

 

Also, K.G. has missed time. Nine games out of a potential 40.

 

But in the games he plays? The man is everywhere. Absolutely on it. Defends the screen-and-roll not only as if his life depended on it -- a lot of people can come through with that level of effort -- but actually succeeds in destroying teams' chances at proper options off of a play. Guards guards and limits forwards. Worries centers. Crashes the defensive glass and doesn't foul. He's just the perfect defender, and the shocking part is that it was about 15 years ago this time that an NBA team started leaning on Garnett heavily to round out its rotation. He's 34, and he'll still turn the game on its ear.

 

Garnett doesn't get extra points for that, in my eyes. He's not getting this vote because he's good for his age.

 

He's just good. Real, real good.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-NBA-s-midseason-awards?urn=nba-309657

[Bulls N' Bears]

MVP: Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks

 

2-7 record without him. Yes, Butler missed some of those games as well, but they even played poorly in the couple of games Butler did appear in while dirk was out. Plus they have lost to some bad teams. His numbers are pretty good and the Mavs are a serious threat when he’s actually in the lineup.

 

[Note: I’m not picking anyone from San Antonio, Boston, or Miami because it’s hard to choose one guy over the others.]

 

*Other MVP candidates: Deron Williams, Utah Jazz. . Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls.

 

DPOY: Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic

 

The Magic are still one of the top defensive teams in the league despite not having depth down low. Also, overall, the Magic lack solid individual defensive players. Howard has been consistently good on defense.

 

*Other DPOY candidates: Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee Bucks. Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets. Tyson Chandler, Dallas Mavericks.

 

MIP: Eric Gordon, Los Angeles Clippers

 

It was tough for me to pick this one. But Gordon has consistently been a good scorer this season and has improved his rebounding/passing.

 

*Other MIP candidates: Michael Beasley, Minnesota Timberwolves. Kevin Love, Minnesota Timberwolves. Raymond Felton, New York Knicks.

 

6th Man: Jamal Crawford, Atlanta Hawks

 

He did a good job helping the Hawks win games while JJ was out and has been a monster off the bench this month.

 

*Other 6th Man Candidates: Jason Terry, Dallas Mavericks. Glen Davis, Boston Celtics. C.J Miles, Utah Jazz.

 

ROY: Blake Griffin, Los Angeles Clippers.

 

Unless he gets injured, he’ll win this award.

 

COY: Gregg Popovic, San Antonio Spurs

 

They have the best record in the league and have by far exceeded expectations so far this season.

 

*Other COY Candidates: Tom Thibodeau, Chicago Bulls. Doc Rivers, Boston Celtics. Jerry Sloan, Utah Jazz.

[Nitro]

ABL- I wrote a long response to your last post and my IE [expletive]ed up at the very end of the reply, so just a few quick points....

 

1) LeBron is a better player than Rose, is having a better season (both with the eye-test and from a production standpoint), and his team has performed better. The Heat were 0-3 in the games he didn't play/got injured in, while they were 2-1 without Wade. The Heat are so thin after the Big 3 that when one of them goes down, they are piss-poor. Going by how the MVP award is usually voted on, and going by my own opinion, LeBron clearly deserves the award over Rose. Unless a non-top 5 player does something relatively historic (like Nash did with the Suns) and/or he's the best player of the top 2-3 teams in the league, I think it's wrong for that player to win the MVP.

 

2) Malone was a better player than Stockton, that's why he got the MVP attention over him, and it's why LeBron is getting more MVP attention than Wade. Amare was nowhere near a better player than Nash in 04-05, and ditto for Marion. Nash did a lot more for Amare/Marion than Stockton did for Malone for the simple fact that Malone was capable of creating his own offense at an elite level.

 

3) Nash's defense was piss poor, but he ran an offense that was the best in over 10 years, which had a 7PPG advantage over the 2nd best offense in the league, and I believe he averaged the most assists in around a decade while being a very efficient scorer. Amare was not the same player his 3rd season that he is now, and his production and efficiency skyrocketed with Nash at PG. Same with Marion. They were a 29 win team before Nash, and a 60+ win team with Nash. Those years Kobe/LeBron/KG's teams were too horrible for them to be considered, Duncan's production wasn't the same as previous seasons to peak voter interest, T-Mac was battling injuries and his teams barely scratched 50 wins, etc... As I said before, it was a perfect storm for Nash to win those awards; he had, IMO, borderline top 5 seasons individually those MVP seasons, his teams won a ton of games while better players were generally on garbage teams. The 2010-2011 NBA season is a much different situation. The best players in the league are almost all playing on elite teams, and a few of them are producing equally, or more than Rose is.

[Newman]

MVP: Derrick Rose

Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Defensive Player of the Year: Dwight Howard

Most Improved: Kevin Love

6th man: Jason Terry

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Brook Lopez

Biggest Surprise (player or team): Spurs

 

First League All-Team:

C: Dwight Howard

F: Kevin Durant

F: LeBron James

G: Kobe Bryant

G: Derrick Rose

 

Finals Guess:

 

Lakers v Celtics 4-3

[AboveLegit]

ABL- I wrote a long response to your last post and my IE [expletive]ed up at the very end of the reply, so just a few quick points....

 

1) LeBron is a better player than Rose, is having a better season (both with the eye-test and from a production standpoint), and his team has performed better. The Heat were 0-3 in the games he didn't play/got injured in, while they were 2-1 without Wade. The Heat are so thin after the Big 3 that when one of them goes down, they are piss-poor. Going by how the MVP award is usually voted on, and going by my own opinion, LeBron clearly deserves the award over Rose. Unless a non-top 5 player does something relatively historic (like Nash did with the Suns) and/or he's the best player of the top 2-3 teams in the league, I think it's wrong for that player to win the MVP.

 

2) Malone was a better player than Stockton, that's why he got the MVP attention over him, and it's why LeBron is getting more MVP attention than Wade. Amare was nowhere near a better player than Nash in 04-05, and ditto for Marion. Nash did a lot more for Amare/Marion than Stockton did for Malone for the simple fact that Malone was capable of creating his own offense at an elite level.

 

3) Nash's defense was piss poor, but he ran an offense that was the best in over 10 years, which had a 7PPG advantage over the 2nd best offense in the league, and I believe he averaged the most assists in around a decade while being a very efficient scorer. Amare was not the same player his 3rd season that he is now, and his production and efficiency skyrocketed with Nash at PG. Same with Marion. They were a 29 win team before Nash, and a 60+ win team with Nash. Those years Kobe/LeBron/KG's teams were too horrible for them to be considered, Duncan's production wasn't the same as previous seasons to peak voter interest, T-Mac was battling injuries and his teams barely scratched 50 wins, etc... As I said before, it was a perfect storm for Nash to win those awards; he had, IMO, borderline top 5 seasons individually those MVP seasons, his teams won a ton of games while better players were generally on garbage teams. The 2010-2011 NBA season is a much different situation. The best players in the league are almost all playing on elite teams, and a few of them are producing equally, or more than Rose is.

I understand your argument, but I just don't think it's completely logical. I don't see how LeBron having the better statistical season warrants him the MVP when clearly he isn't the most valuable to his team. That 3 game losing streak the Heat had without LeBron in the lineup is too small of a sample size as compared to the losing record Dallas had with Dirk out of the lineup. The most consistent player this season has been Rose without a doubt in my mind. He has missed all but one game this season (which they lost by the way) and has clearly improved in all facets of the game.

 

And Malone and Stockton were the greatest pick n roll duo the league has ever see, so they fed off each other. Historically, this should have went to Jordan. They won 69 games for crying out loud. Utah won 64 which was quite good but the Bulls were very good. I think a lot of voters considered the Bulls a very deep team and gave it to Malone because of that, but come on, these are also the same voters who gave Dave Cowens MVP over Lew Alcindor based on the Celtics great winning record. In 1999, Spurs and Jazz tied for the top record, Duncan put up 22/11 and Malone put up 23/9. Malone basically got it because he was the veteran player and was considered the top player after Jordan retired, since he was the last non-Jordan MVP and had battled him in the previous two NBA Finals.

 

Nash is unique because he draws help with his speed, if not flat out double teams, and pulls the help matchup out on the perimeter for mismatches. Regardless, in my eyes, this doesnt change the fact that Shaq drew more defenders more often than Nash in 2004-05, and was more valuable. Nobody else in the league can do what Shaq has been doing, career year or not. Even Lebron will never be defended like that, no matter how good he gets. Crediting him for "making" that team a contender would be to overlook Stoudamire's rise to a top 10 player in the league who dominated Duncan in the playoffs every game. And sure Nash helped Stoudemire, but Nash wasn't putting 30 and 10 on Duncan everynight. Stoudemire did that.

 

I hate to sound as critical of Nash as I have, I just think that in spite of how great hes been, he was picked unfairly over one of the greatest players (Shaq) and greatest seasons (Kobe) of all time. Like Phil Jackson has said, great post players are always more valuable than great guards. In 05-06, I think was just a freak season though for Kobe, with the rules, his scoring outbursts, and all that. Not to mention the down (or non) years of the great post players like Shaq, Stoudemire, and Duncan.

[Dash]

MVP: Derrick Rose

Coach of the Year: Gregg Popovich

Defensive Player of the Year: Chris Paul & Dwight Howard

Most Improved: Kevin Love (with Michael Beasley and Eric Gordon as close seconds)

6th man: Jason Terry

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Yao Ming (I know, I know he got injured but still...) +Houston Rockets

Biggest Surprise (player or team): Amar'e Stoudemire + Spurs

 

First League All-Team:

C: Dwight Howard

PF: Amar'e Stoudemire

SF: Lebron James

SG: Kobe Bryant

PG: Derrick Rose

 

Finals Guess:

 

San Antonio Spurs (4) vs Boston Celtics (3)

[Nitro]

I understand your argument, but I just don't think it's completely logical. I don't see how LeBron having the better statistical season warrants him the MVP when clearly he isn't the most valuable to his team. That 3 game losing streak the Heat had without LeBron in the lineup is too small of a sample size as compared to the losing record Dallas had with Dirk out of the lineup. The most consistent player this season has been Rose without a doubt in my mind. He has missed all but one game this season (which they lost by the way) and has clearly improved in all facets of the game.

 

If the award went to the guy who's most valuable of decent-good teams, then KG and Kobe would have more than 1 MVP, and LeBron might have more than 2. The 'most valuable' aspect of the award is just a small area, with 'best player' and 'best team' holding just as much, if not more weight. That's why I wish they would add a 'Most Outstanding Player' award, or simply replace the MVP with it.

 

And Malone and Stockton were the greatest pick n roll duo the league has ever see, so they fed off each other. Historically, this should have went to Jordan. They won 69 games for crying out loud. Utah won 64 which was quite good but the Bulls were very good. I think a lot of voters considered the Bulls a very deep team and gave it to Malone because of that, but come on, these are also the same voters who gave Dave Cowens MVP over Lew Alcindor based on the Celtics great winning record. In 1999, Spurs and Jazz tied for the top record, Duncan put up 22/11 and Malone put up 23/9. Malone basically got it because he was the veteran player and was considered the top player after Jordan retired, since he was the last non-Jordan MVP and had battled him in the previous two NBA Finals.

 

I'm not debating whether Malone deserved those MVP's over Jordan or Duncan (do think he deserved it over Duncan). I do think he deserved them over Stockton for the same reasons LeBron deserves it over Wade; he was simply the better player. And neither of those duo's should be compared to 04-05 Nash/Amare because Nash was CLEARLY the better player by a fair margin.

 

Nash is unique because he draws help with his speed, if not flat out double teams, and pulls the help matchup out on the perimeter for mismatches. Regardless, in my eyes, this doesnt change the fact that Shaq drew more defenders more often than Nash in 2004-05, and was more valuable. Nobody else in the league can do what Shaq has been doing, career year or not. Even Lebron will never be defended like that, no matter how good he gets. Crediting him for "making" that team a contender would be to overlook Stoudamire's rise to a top 10 player in the league who dominated Duncan in the playoffs every game. And sure Nash helped Stoudemire, but Nash wasn't putting 30 and 10 on Duncan everynight. Stoudemire did that.

 

Amare wasn't a top 10 player in the league at that point. Nash, Kobe, KG, Shaq, Dirk, Duncan, T-Mac, VC (that season especially he was killer), Pierce, AI, Wade and LeBron were all clearly better players, and that's just off the top of my head. Even now he's borderline top 10, and he's clearly a better player than he was in 04-05, even though Amare filled up the stat sheet that season.

 

And yes, Amare dominated Duncan (who had plantar faschiatis, the same injury that's hampered Tyreke this season), but don't forget how Wade dominated and swept your Wizards with Shaq out for half the series.

 

I hate to sound as critical of Nash as I have, I just think that in spite of how great hes been, he was picked unfairly over one of the greatest players (Shaq) and greatest seasons (Kobe) of all time. Like Phil Jackson has said, great post players are always more valuable than great guards. In 05-06, I think was just a freak season though for Kobe, with the rules, his scoring outbursts, and all that. Not to mention the down (or non) years of the great post players like Shaq, Stoudemire, and Duncan.

 

No way did Kobe deserve it over Nash in 05-06. The Lakers were a 44 win team. I mean, if you're going that route, then you have to say LeBron deserved it over Nash as well, because LeBron was putting up 31/7/6 on strong efficiency and led a comparably horrible supporting cast to homecourt advantage in the playoffs.

 

You can make a case for Shaq deserving it over Nash, but I do think what Nash did with the Suns was more impressive than what Shaq did with the Heat, even though individually Shaq was a superior player.

[AboveLegit]

I agree with a lot of your points here, and this is where I think we should truly figure out what the MVP award is about. Your side of the argument is saying that the award goes to the best player on one of the best teams, while my side says it goes to the most valuable player on a playoff team. I guess it's all based off of preference, but I do concur that we need to have a Most Outstanding Player award. See, my criteria is that as long as you're a playoff team, you should be considered in the race. The teams record isn't as important as what the player was actually able to accomplish that season.

 

Who else could have scored for the Lakers in 05-06? The media and the fans hated Kobe, pure and simple. You can talk about people making players better and whatever else, but the real deal is that Kobe is one of the few players in the league that could make the playoffs with that bum team. I'm a Shaq fan and I hated Kobe when he was playing keepaway from Shaq, especially in 04'. But he's turned the corner, and I cant think of another player other than MJ or Shaq in his prime that could do what he did last year. Nash, Brand, Dirk, etc. just dont have the talent, and Lebron doesn't have the experience, skill set, and mental toughness to match Kobe yet either.

 

Kobe may not have led Odom to a 20 ppg season or Kwame Brown to respectability, but he led that terrible team to the playoffs. If that isnt making your team better I dont know what is. The sad thing is, the team had no foundation. At least with the Cavs LeBron had a team around him that he was able to feed off of, Kobe had nothing. No one was able to create their own shot, there were no reliable outside shooters, we're talking about one of the greatest offensive displays ever in a season. That has to warrant MVP talk.

 

Shaq took a less talented team than Nash's to about as good a record. You can say that the Heat went to the playoffs the year before, but lets be real, until Shaq went to the East, the East was terribly weak. The East was very top heavy in 2003-04, with the Pacers and Pistons being the only real title contenders, and the Heat being a long ways away. Add Shaq, take away their 1st and 3rd best players from the previous year (Odom and Butler), and they are damn near the best team in the league. That would be akin to Nash taking the Suns to 60 wins after the Suns lose Marbury and Stoudemire, or Marbury and Marion, take your pick.

[Nitro]

I agree with a lot of your points here, and this is where I think we should truly figure out what the MVP award is about. Your side of the argument is saying that the award goes to the best player on one of the best teams, while my side says it goes to the most valuable player on a playoff team. I guess it's all based off of preference, but I do concur that we need to have a Most Outstanding Player award. See, my criteria is that as long as you're a playoff team, you should be considered in the race. The teams record isn't as important as what the player was actually able to accomplish that season.

 

There's a lot of factors that go into it. To clarify, my judgement of the MVP in this topic is a mixture of who deserves it based on the usual MVP criterea from past years, and my own opinion. But yeah, a 'Most Outstanding Player' award would definitely be a great addition.

 

Who else could have scored for the Lakers in 05-06? The media and the fans hated Kobe, pure and simple. You can talk about people making players better and whatever else, but the real deal is that Kobe is one of the few players in the league that could make the playoffs with that bum team. I'm a Shaq fan and I hated Kobe when he was playing keepaway from Shaq, especially in 04'. But he's turned the corner, and I cant think of another player other than MJ or Shaq in his prime that could do what he did last year. Nash, Brand, Dirk, etc. just dont have the talent, and Lebron doesn't have the experience, skill set, and mental toughness to match Kobe yet either.

 

Kobe may not have led Odom to a 20 ppg season or Kwame Brown to respectability, but he led that terrible team to the playoffs. If that isnt making your team better I dont know what is. The sad thing is, the team had no foundation. At least with the Cavs LeBron had a team around him that he was able to feed off of, Kobe had nothing.

 

Wait, I'm confused....in that first paragraph are you talking about 05-06, or last season (09-10)? I am assuming 05-06, but you said 'last year', and then said 'LeBron doesn't have...yet' in the present tense. I'm guessing since you included Brand in that list of players you meant 05-06.

 

Anyway, I agree Kobe was absolutely jaw-dropping in 05-06, but you have to realize LeBron did roughly the same job that season with the Cavs. Kobe played in a tougher conference, so I'd say that makes up for the 5 extra wins the Cavs won that season. But, the Cavs had a foundation? What was that? Everyone assumes LeBron had a bunch of shooters around him that season, but that's false. Of all the players on the team who played over 53 games, only Damon Jones (37%) shot better 34% or better from 3 that season. Larry Hughes, the team's 2nd best player, played only 36 games. Flip Murray played only 28 games. Varejao and Pavlovic both played less than 55 games. The rest of the team consisted of Big Z, Gooden and scrubs people forgot ever existed. Kobe didn't have a better supporting cast, but Odom was still good enough to add 15PPG and led the team in rebounding and assists. Really, LeBron never had a 2nd option as good Odom, especially before Mo arrived in Cleveland.

 

Basically, both players were amazing, and led crappy teams really far. I think LeBron was very underrated that season, especially with how well he played in that post-season.

 

No one was able to create their own shot, there were no reliable outside shooters, we're talking about one of the greatest offensive displays ever in a season. That has to warrant MVP talk.

 

I agree it was amazing, but with only 44 wins, and considering the barameter set forth by past MVP's, I just don't think he should have been MVP (and I'd argue that LeBron last year was right with Kobe's 05-06 season offensively).

 

Shaq took a less talented team than Nash's to about as good a record. You can say that the Heat went to the playoffs the year before, but lets be real, until Shaq went to the East, the East was terribly weak. The East was very top heavy in 2003-04, with the Pacers and Pistons being the only real title contenders, and the Heat being a long ways away. Add Shaq, take away their 1st and 3rd best players from the previous year (Odom and Butler), and they are damn near the best team in the league. That would be akin to Nash taking the Suns to 60 wins after the Suns lose Marbury and Stoudemire, or Marbury and Marion, take your pick.

 

Even after Shaq went to the East, the conference was still much weaker than the West, which you didn't factor in along with Nash's Suns winning 3 more games than the Heat that season.

 

Also, don't forget that Wade missed over 20 games his rookie season, and like every rookie took a little while to adapt. Despite that, they still made it to .500, and in the post-season got to the 2nd round and took the #1 seeded Pacers to 6 games.

[AboveLegit]

Wait, I'm confused....in that first paragraph are you talking about 05-06, or last season (09-10)? I am assuming 05-06, but you said 'last year', and then said 'LeBron doesn't have...yet' in the present tense. I'm guessing since you included Brand in that list of players you meant 05-06.

My fault, I meant to say "that year" not "last year" so yes, I was talking about 05-06.

 

Anyway, I agree Kobe was absolutely jaw-dropping in 05-06, but you have to realize LeBron did roughly the same job that season with the Cavs. Kobe played in a tougher conference, so I'd say that makes up for the 5 extra wins the Cavs won that season. But, the Cavs had a foundation? What was that? Everyone assumes LeBron had a bunch of shooters around him that season, but that's false. Of all the players on the team who played over 53 games, only Damon Jones (37%) shot better 34% or better from 3 that season. Larry Hughes, the team's 2nd best player, played only 36 games. Flip Murray played only 28 games. Varejao and Pavlovic both played less than 55 games. The rest of the team consisted of Big Z, Gooden and scrubs people forgot ever existed. Kobe didn't have a better supporting cast, but Odom was still good enough to add 15PPG and led the team in rebounding and assists. Really, LeBron never had a 2nd option as good Odom, especially before Mo arrived in Cleveland.

Yeah, I'll agree with you here LBJ could probably have deserved MVP that season as well.

 

I agree it was amazing, but with only 44 wins, and considering the barameter set forth by past MVP's, I just don't think he should have been MVP (and I'd argue that LeBron last year was right with Kobe's 05-06 season offensively).

I just think Kobe is an extraordinary circumstance. That team is awful, they started an NBDL point guard and front line, had no depth, little experience, and pretty much just Kobe and Phil Jackson. And they still almost put the Suns out. Journeymen and bums everywhere. I dont think anyone could go to the playoffs with that type of team except Kobe and LBJ.

 

In the end its hard to say he deserved it over Shaq the first year and Kobe and LeBron the second year, regardless of the Suns accomplishments. Not everyone could do what Kobe and LeBron do, or what Shaq does for his teams (all of them being contenders and making the finals), but there ARE a few people who can do what Nash does and thats the bottom line.

 

Even after Shaq went to the East, the conference was still much weaker than the West, which you didn't factor in along with Nash's Suns winning 3 more games than the Heat that season.

3 wins isn't a whole lot though. And you gotta give more credit to Amare, his game rose to a whole different level that season. Like Wade's rise in Miami and Shaq, all of the credit can't be given to Nash, though Nash definitely played a role. Stoudemire most definitely improved his ball handling and shooting in just the one years time between Marbury and Nash being there. That tends to happen with younger players.

 

Also, don't forget that Wade missed over 20 games his rookie season, and like every rookie took a little while to adapt. Despite that, they still made it to .500, and in the post-season got to the 2nd round and took the #1 seeded Pacers to 6 games.

That was a more balanced team though, it wasn't just one man totally dominating games though. Odom and Butler had a nice run in the playoffs which really helped take the pressure off Wade.

[Nitro]

In the end its hard to say he deserved it over Shaq the first year and Kobe and LeBron the second year, regardless of the Suns accomplishments. Not everyone could do what Kobe and LeBron do, or what Shaq does for his teams (all of them being contenders and making the finals), but there ARE a few people who can do what Nash does and thats the bottom line.

 

At the time, I don't think anyone could have done what Nash did with those Suns, not even Kidd (and I'm from NJ and a HUGE Kidd fan). Again, he ran the best offenses of the last decade, and put up the highest assist totals (along with insane shooting efficiency) in a decade. I think what he did, especially in 05-06 without Amare, was pretty special. If LeBron's Cavs won a few more games, or Kobe cracked 50+ wins, I'd be inclined to agree that his MVP in 05-06 wasn't warranted, but the fact of the matter is that the cards fell perfectly in Nash's lap.

 

3 wins isn't a whole lot though. And you gotta give more credit to Amare, his game rose to a whole different level that season. Like Wade's rise in Miami and Shaq, all of the credit can't be given to Nash, though Nash definitely played a role. Stoudemire most definitely improved his ball handling and shooting in just the one years time between Marbury and Nash being there. That tends to happen with younger players.

 

3 wins is pretty significant, especially when you factor in that the Suns were playing in a vastly superior conference. In 04-05 only 2 teams, the Heat and Pistons, won more than 47 in the EC. Out West, 7 teams were over 47 wins. That's a huge difference.

 

And Amare was definitely improved in 04-05, but I really don't believe he would have been the All-Star he was without Nash (just that season, once he got his jumper to be automatic it's a different story).

 

Also, some stats- The Heat were a +9 with O'Neal on the floor, and +2 without him on the floor. Meanwhile, the Suns were a +12 with Nash on the floor, and a -2 with him off the floor. May or may not have much meaning, but is just one more thing that supports Nash's value over Shaq's.

 

That was a more balanced team though, it wasn't just one man totally dominating games though. Odom and Butler had a nice run in the playoffs which really helped take the pressure off Wade.

 

Odom averaged less points, rebounds and assists in that post-season than he did in that regular season, and averaged 4 TO's. Butler averaged 10PPG on 38% shooting. Also, Eddie Jones shot below 40% that post-season as well.

 

Bottom line is that 03-04 team was closer to a 45-48 win team than a .500 team. If Wade didn't miss 20+ games, I do think they would have gotten near 50 wins. That is NOT to downplay Shaq's value on the following year's squad, but I do think the Heat were better than you're giving them credit for.

[Nestle Snipes]

MVP: LeBron James

Coach of the Year: Gregg Popavich

Defensive Player of the Year: Dwight Howard

Most Improved: Wesley Matthews

6th man: Jamal Crawford

Rookie of the Year: Blake Griffin

 

Biggest Disappointment (player or team): Portland Trail Blazers

Biggest Surprise (player or team): San Antonio Spurs

 

First League All-Team:

C: Dwight Howard

PF: Amare Stoudemire

SF: LeBron James

SG: Dwyane Wade

PG: Derrick Rose

 

Finals Guess:

 

Heat vs. Spurs (Heat win in 7)