Raptors With and Without Bargnani

[Built Ford Tough]

This was posted on RealGM and I found it pretty interesting.

 

If you recall, Bargnani missed 4 games in a row a couple weeks back and in those games, the scores were (Raptor point total first, opponent second):

85-96

84-76

105-114

79-93

 

then in the next 4 games, after Bargnani's return, the scores were:

 

91-111

120-105

102-122

118-112

 

Small sample size and raw scoring numbers don't tell the whole story, I know. Other factors obviously played a part in these numbers as well (such as Calderon not being in the lineup for a couple). However, from a very simplistic point of view, I just found it interesting how the Raptors are basically screwed with Bargnani in the lineup due them being abused defensively and on the glass, but they are screwed without him in the lineup because nobody (other than maybe DeRozan) can score the ball worth a damn.

 

Seeing this made me go over to 82games.com and take a look at some more numbers.

 

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.

 

On Floor: 115.2

Off Floor: 108.9

Difference: +6.3

 

Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.

 

On Floor: 108.1

Off Floor: 106.6

Difference: +1.6

 

Offensive Rebounding

 

On Floor: 28.9%

Off Floor 32.9%

Difference: -3.9%

 

Defensive Rebounding

 

On Floor: 70.9%

Off Floor 71.2%

Difference: -0.4%

 

Total Rebounding

 

On Floor: 49.9%

Off Floor 52.1%

Difference: -2.1%

 

Effective FG%

 

On Floor: 50.9%

Off Floor: 48.8%

Difference: +2.1%

 

Effective FG% Allowed

 

On Floor: 52.7%

Off Floor: 51.7%

Difference: +1.0%

 

 

 

To avoid making this post too long and dull, I'll stop with the numbers as they are all basically showing the exact same thing.

 

With Bargnani on the floor, the Raptors defense is horrific, but they are a solid offensive team.

With Bargnani off the floor, the Raptors defense is competent, but they are a brutal offensive team.

 

So which is the lesser of two evils?

 

I'm mainly just rambling/ranting here and I don't expect any real discussion from this thread. Just found these numbers interesting.

[Check my Stats]

We are not worse without him, I don't know if Colangelo is just scared to admit this, or is just ignoring it, but it is extremely frustrating as a fan.

[Built Ford Tough]

We are not worse without him, I don't know if Colangelo is just scared to admit this, or is just ignoring it, but it is extremely frustrating as a fan.

 

I wouldn't say that they aren't worse without him because they have only won 1 game without him in the lineup and, for all of his faults, he is the most talented player on the team.

 

I think the real question is whether or not our future is any worse without him. That is the question that Raptor fans have been debating since he was drafted and will inevitably continue to debate for as long as he is on the team.

[Check my Stats]

I think Derozan could honestly be better than Bargnani by the end of this season. A bad defensive center hurts your team a lot more than a bad defensive wing player, and both are probably 'bad' defenders overall, but at least Demar has the potential to get better in the coming years while Bargnani is probably pretty much the player he will always be. I don't care if Bargs has more offensive tools at his disposal, Derozan is already as effective offensively, if not more so.

 

In January Demar has arguably been the better offensive player. Bargs is getting 22.1 PPG on .442 from the field while Demar is giving us 20.6 PPG on .475 from the field. It's just crazy really what Demar is doing for us lately, and especially considering he can't even hit a jumper outside 15 feet. As he continues to extend his range and tighten his handle and work on his defense, he is going to be a really really solid player for us.

 

I am sick of us being a soft team. I would rather us start Dorsey and only score 80-something points a game but only give up in the 90's. I want Bargnani gone, we won't ever win with him as our starting big man unless we get some sort of godsend big man like Dwight Howard to make up for his incompetence defensively and on the glass.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Check my Stats

[Newman]

The Raptors can't rely on defense at the moment as they don't have enough players that have good defensive skills so they might as well keep Bargnani and his 20PPG on the floor which at least give them well, 20 PPG more.

[*Swish*]

We score more points when Bargnani is on the floor because he has so much offensive options in his arsenal. I know we get closer to the first pick when we lose games but it pisses me off when I see my team getting blown-out every single night

[Check my Stats]

He is a big part of why we are losing, too.

[Built Ford Tough]

I don't know if DeRozan will surpass Bargnani by the end of the season because he is pretty much the same as Bargnani right now, which is a scorer and nothing else. DeRozan sucks defensively, doesn't rebound nearly as well as he should and isn't a playmaker at all. He has played really well this past month, but I am curious to see how he performs when there is more of a book on him. When teams start keying in on him defensively, send a double his way, force him to be a facilitator and things like that (which Bargnani has had to adjust to this season as well), it will be interesting to see if he can maintain this kind of play.

 

As for Bargnani, I still think that he has a place on this team, but it is becoming more and more clear with each passing game that his ultimate role should be that of a 6th man scorer. He can be really effective off of the bench for 25-30 minutes a game split between the 4 and the 5 as long as he isn't forced to do anything other than score the ball.