New Over Rated Players?

[magicbalala245]

Charley Rosen has officially lost his god damn mind. I'll post some names who he think is over rated and you can read the rest of the article by click on top of the quote.

 

Kevin Garnett

 

His performance in the 2008 NBA Finals against the Lakers was a good indication of where he's really at.

 

In Boston's six-point loss in Game 3, Garnett shot 6-for-21.

In Boston's five-point loss in Game 5, Garnett scored only 13 points and missed several shots in the fourth quarter.

In Boston's championship-clinching, 39-point win in Game 6, Garnett registered his series high of 26 points.

In other words, it is well-known among the league's coaches that Garnett is a frontrunner who will inevitably choke when a critical game is up for grabs.

 

 

Chris Bosh

 

What does this guy do? Shoot jumpers. Grab mostly finesse rebounds. Shoot more jumpers. Register more turnovers than assists. Keep on shooting jumpers. Play inferior defense except in the sub-par competition of international play. He does enough to fill up a stat sheet, but not enough to be a bona-fide franchise player.

 

Gilbert Arenas

 

He's on this particular list because of his numerous forced shots, his inability to run an offense and his miserable lack of both on- and off-the-ball defense. Also, don't forget the many times he's choked in the deciding moments of playoff games. Arenas' game is less than meets the eye.

 

Chris Paul

 

There's no doubt that CP3 has always been a truly great passer and has also worked diligently to become a dangerous 3-point shooter. But there are several reasons why he belongs in this dubious category.

 

In half-court offenses, he's a threat to do damage only in screen-and-roll situations, which means that doubling him virtually renders him impotent.

Because of his diminutive size — listed at 6-feet but closer to 5-foot-10 — he can be easily doubled.

His defense consists of steals. Period. Which in turn depends mostly on opponents' mistakes.

Many opponents simply take the ball to their favorite spot and then shoot over him.

Even when using a screen-and-roll, he's not nearly as effective going left as he is going right.

When was the last time that a pipsqueak-sized point guard led his team to an NBA championship? Slater Martin with the St. Louis Hawks in 1958 — which means that while Paul's Hornets will be a good team, they'll never be good enough.

Edited July 28, 2009 by magicbalala245

[Karl Malone]

This dude is a dumbass.

 

Although he might have a point with Chris Bosh. But he isn't really that overrated so it doesn't count.

Edited July 28, 2009 by B4KED

[DWhiTex34]

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

[bravenewworld]

Totally agree with Arenas as he is one of the most worthless point guards in the league.

KG is a bit overrated now as well considering how much he has fallen off from what he once was.

Dont think Bosh and CP3 are overrated though.

[Flight]

I'll make sure to never read any Rosen articles again. Thanks. ^_^

[Diesel]

Agreed with all of them. Their all overrated players.

[Flash]

You mean Kevin Garnett? The 08 DPOY? Just because he was injured last year he's overrated now? Terrible.

 

CP3 and Bosh is laughable and no one considers Gil a superstar anymore.

[Wall2Wall]

None of those players are overrated lol

[bravenewworld]

You mean Kevin Garnett? The 08 DPOY? Just because he was injured last year he's overrated now? Terrible.

 

CP3 and Bosh is laughable and no one considers Gil a superstar anymore.

 

KGs production is not what it used to be, add that to injury and age... yea... you can consider him overrated simply because a lot of people want to view him as the same KG of '03

[Erick Blasco]

You mean Kevin Garnett? The 08 DPOY? Just because he was injured last year he's overrated now? Terrible.

 

CP3 and Bosh is laughable and no one considers Gil a superstar anymore.

 

Go watch Garnett single-handedly lose Game 5 of the Finals and you'll see what Rosen sees.

 

Here's what he did that Game:

 

While Kevin Garnett owned the offensive glass (seven offensive boards, 14 total), he made numerous poor decisions on defense leading to foul trouble. He also gave up far too many defensive boards to Gasol, and was often outplayed by Gasol in one-on-one situations.

 

In total, Garnett only scored 13 points to Gasol’s 19, tallied no assists to Gasol’s six, and committed four turnovers to Gasol’s none.

 

And in the clutch, Garnett missed two simple tip-ins—one over Jordan Farmar—and missed three straight free throws.

 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record—how many times can this man fail to produce in big time situations?

 

My article

 

He's one of the most futile fourth-quarter pressure players in the league yet people think of him as a mega-star and it just isn't the case.

 

Most of the other players listed are grossly overrated as well (though I'd hesitate to put Birdman on the list because most people know all he can do is block shots, and his niche is strictly to block shots.

 

Even Chris Paul is assumed to be flawless. Denver exposed every shortcoming he had. Squat on his right hand and force him left. Rough him up with a quick, strong, tall, ultra aggressive defender in Dahntay Jones while forcing him left. Trap all screens forcing him to pick the ball up around taller defenders. Force Paul to win games by shooting and finishing. And on defense, when Paul customarily sags off the entry passer to try and steal entry passes, Chauncey Billups would just step in rhythm to open three after open three. It's why I hesitate to place him ahead of Deron Williams as best point guard.

 

Bosh is an oversized jump shooter, Boozer, as Real Deal and HG have mentioned many times on this site, don't even try to play defense, and go into the Wizards threads to see the opinion of Arenas.

[Diesel]

Erik Blasco basically said what I was thinking especially with KG. On offense he has become mostly a jump shooter and his rebounding has slipped big time this past year. He is a choker who is incapable of leading a team in crucial stretches. It happened in Minnesota with Sam Cassell and it's happened in Boston with Pierce/Ray Allen.

 

And Chris Paul is assumed as the perfect point guard although he's far from that. He is more dependable on pick and roll's than Steve Nash and lacks the size against some of the bigger point guards such as Deron Williams who owns him in head to head matchups on a consistant basis.

 

Bosh sucks on Defense, isn't much of a rebounder, and is a soft player overall.

[The Great iBoldin]

A guy that I think has become very overrated is Glen Davis. He had two good series, other then that he's a marginal bench player, yet he's being talked about as a starter? Please.

[J-Rat]

lol at CP3, the best PG in the game

[The Great iBoldin]

lol at CP3, the best PG in the game

 

He may be the best point in the game (Although I firmly believe that goes to Deron) but he's overrated, definitely overrated. If you make him try to win a game by scoring or finishing around the hoop, 95% chance you don't win the game. He has a lot of negative tendencies in his game.

[Built Ford Tough]

Chris Bosh

 

What does this guy do? Shoot jumpers. Grab mostly finesse rebounds. Shoot more jumpers. Register more turnovers than assists. Keep on shooting jumpers. Play inferior defense except in the sub-par competition of international play. He does enough to fill up a stat sheet, but not enough to be a bona-fide franchise player

 

Lol.

 

Bosh does shoot more jumpers than he does attack the paint, but the reason for that is because of the fact that he is a very good jump shooting big man (one of the best in the league). 60% of Bosh's field goal attempts were from mid range, but is that really a bad thing when you consider the fact that the only players that got more mid range points than Bosh last season was Dirk Nowitzki, Kobe Bryant, David West, Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul? Out of those 5 players, only Dirk Nowitzki and Chris Paul shot a better percentage from mid range than Bosh did.

 

I fail to see how it is considered a negative on a player when they score the 6th most points from mid range (around 9 a game) in the entire NBA, and convert his mid range jumpers at a 45% clip. If Bosh was a player that did nothing other than shoot mid range jumpers, yeah, I would agree with the fact that this would be considered a knock on him, but seeing how he also managed to score 7 points a night inside the paint and also manage to get to the line 8 times a night (making 6.5 of them) it is laughable that people constantly try to claim that Bosh is nothing more than a soft, passive jump shooter on the offensive end of the floor.

 

Can somebody explain to me why Bosh is considered to do nothing but shoot jumpers, yet somebody like Elton Brand isn't knocked for shooting jumpers despite the fact that he has had seasons in which 70% of his total field goal attempts were jump shots (in 05/06) and, for the most part, has had more than 60% of his entire field goal attempts been jump shots?

 

Give me the so called soft jump shooting big man that gets you 23 points a night on 49%, finishes 7th in the entire NBA in And 1 opportunities (78) and gets to the line 8 times a night any day of the week.

 

As for Bosh being this terrible rebounder, that is another completely ignorant statement. Bosh is not a great rebounder and I will never try to say that he is, but at the very least, he has to be considered an average rebounder. If you exclude his rookie season in which he average 7.4 rebounds a game as a 6'10, 215 pound (and that is being generous) 19 year old rookie playing out of position, he has a career average of 9.6 rebounds per game. Is that great? No it is not, but it is pretty good for a player that supposedly can't grab anything other than finesse rebounds. He was one of only 3 players that averaged 20/10 last season and finished 6th in the NBA in rebounds per game and 7th in total rebounds. He grabbed 555 defensive boards (7th highest total) and 214 offensive rebounds (T-14th in the NBA). He averaged 2.8 offensive rebounds a game which was good for 11th in the NBA (only 0.1 away from being 8th) and averaged 7.2 defensive boards a game which was good for 8th in the NBA. Yeah it helps that Bosh played on a poor rebounding team and there were more boards to grab, but you can't possibly say that Bosh is anything worse than an average rebounder (and even that may be underrating his rebounding).

 

I will agree with anybody that says he isn't a very good defensive player, but he is not as bad as some people try to make it seem either. People always try to use the fact that he can't guard Dwight Howard and Howard abused Bosh in the playoffs or how Shaquille O'Neal lit Bosh and the Raptors up for 45 or something points, but honestly, do you expect the 6'10, 230 pound Bosh to be able to stop the 6'11, 265 pound Dwight Howard in the post? Should he be locking down the 7'1 330 pound Shaquille O'Neal on the block? Of course Bosh is going to struggle against players that he is giving up 100 pounds to. For the most part, since Bosh has came into the NBA, the Raptors have been forced to put Bosh on opposing centers and players that are simply much too big for him to be able to handle. He is not a good defensive player, but when you add to the fact that he is forced to guard opposing teams centers and is constantly outweighed by a considerable margin, do you expect him to lock players down? When he is able to guard his natural position of power forward and isn't giving up a considerable amount of weight, Bosh plays slightly below average defense and is sure as hell not a liability like some people make him out to be.

 

The funniest thing about this article is that Rosen is basing his opinion on Bosh being overrated due to the fact that he is not a bona-fide franchise player. Does anybody even consider Bosh to be a bona-fide franchise player? I am a huge Raptor fan and not once have I ever tried to say that Bosh is a legit franchise guy. I have stated numerous times that he would be much better suited if he were to be able to play second fiddle to a superstar wing player, or even a dominant, low post big man. Basically, Rosen is saying that Bosh is overrated because he is not a bona-fide franchise player, yet how many people actually consider Bosh to be a bona-fide franchise player? I think everybody realizes that Bosh is an All Star caliber power forward that is best off playing second fiddle to one of the bona-fide franchise players in the NBA.

 

Another thing that I found funny is how Bosh is constantly ridiculed and scrutinized for being soft, a liability on defense, a bad rebounder and nothing but a jump shooter on offense, so how exactly is he overrated when people are constantly bagging on the guy and tearing apart his game? If anything, Bosh is more underrated than he is overrated (I don't think he is either underrated or overrated for the record).

 

I also enjoyed this comment about Chris Paul:

 

When was the last time that a pipsqueak-sized point guard led his team to an NBA championship? Slater Martin with the St. Louis Hawks in 1958 — which means that while Paul's Hornets will be a good team, they'll never be good enough.

 

Has Rosen heard of a guy named Isiah Thomas? Last I checked Zeke was like 6'1 (if that) and 180 pounds which is only 1 inch and 5 pounds more than what Paul is listed at. The Bad Boy Pistons won the Championship what, 19 years ago? There also is a guy by the name of Allen Iverson that led a Philly Sixers team to the NBA Finals in this decade and he is just as small, if not smaller than Paul is (I know AI wasn't a point guard but it is still the general idea of an undersized player leading his team to a Championship [i realize Iverson never won, but he still got them there]).

 

Chris Paul led a very average Hornets team that struggled with depth and injuries to a 49-33 record while putting up 22.8/11 on 50%. If that is overrated, then god damn, Rosen must have some high [expletive]ing expectations for players. Yeah, Paul has his flaws and Denver did a fantastic job of exploting them and shutting Paul down, but god damn, the Hornets were horribly outmatched heading into that series and it took one of the greatest statistical point guard seasons ever to even make it into the playoffs as 7th seed. I'll take Paul and his overrated game any day of the week.

 

Arenas I can't agree with because nobody even talks about him as a great player anymore and the only times that Gil is brought up is when people are mocking his salary or the fact that he hasn't played for the better part of 2 years now. I fail to see how a player is overrated when they are barely even talked about anymore, let alone being talked about as an elite player.

 

Garnett isn't the same player that he used to be and has dropped off in the last few seasons, but he is still an elite power forward and that is good enough for me. You want to call him overrated, fine, but he is still a premier power forward in the game today and an elite defensive player.

 

This also got me chuckling:

 

Dishonorable mention

 

The following multi-talented players have led their respective teams nowhere for so many years that their being overrated is no longer news. Stephon Marbury, who only last week still insisted that he's the best point guard in the NBA. Dirk Nowitzki. Baron Davis. Peja Stojakovic. Amare Stoudemire. Vince Carter. Larry Hughes. Corey Maggette. Shawn Marion. Kenyon Martin. Tracy McGrady. Jermaine O'Neal. Wally Szczerbiak. And last and least, Allen Iverson.

 

Dirk Nowitzki has led the Mavs to 9 straight 50 win seasons, 4 semi finals apperances, 1 Western Conference Finals and an NBA Finals apperance during the past 9 seasons. That is pretty damn good to me. Yeah, he hasn't won a Championship but the fact that the Mavs have advanced in the playoffs 6 out of the last 9 seasons is pretty damn impressive when you consider that they haven't always been the most stacked team in the league.

 

Half of the players he has mentioned are straight up laughable. Everybody knows that Marbury is a cancer and a headcase, nobody has gave two [expletive]s about Stojakovic since he left the Kings, Jermaine O'Neal hasn't been considered anything more than an injury prone player for the last 4 years or so, nobody even talks about Szcerbiak anymore, McGrady was still an elite player up until last season, Vince Carter has become one of the more underrated stars in his time in Jersey, and when was the last time that anybody even considered Corey Maggette, Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin anything more than overpaid role players?

 

This entire article that he wrote was [expletive]ing horrible. Like 90% of the people he claims to be overrated are players that people either don't talk about anymore and haven't for the past 5 years, or are players that are hated on more than they are praised. The only thing good about this article is that I will never have to read it again.

[Real Deal]

I'll agree with BFT on most of that, but I'm not going to give it my all posting because this article was a waste of my time reading.

 

The fact of the matter is, you can't be overrated when you really aren't rated by anyone to begin with.

[Erick Blasco]

BFT, you're one of the few Raptors fans (and NBA fans) who doesn't categorically glorify Bosh as a star. Look at all the press Bosh receives about possibly being a free agent next year. It's done because people assume Bosh is a mega-star. He's certainly very good. A good shooter, an average rebounder and defender, he can score a little bit inside against slower or shorter defenders, but he's a very complimentary player who gets treated as if he's a legit MVP candidate, and that's certainly not the case.

 

Bosh is a nice jump shooter who is average at almost every other thing he does, or is needed of him to make Toronto elite. He'd be a nice third, or perhaps second option on a really good team. Since most people don't realize that, he's overrated.

 

With your Iverson-Paul analogy, be careful, that Sixers team wasn't special and took advantage of the worst NBA conference in history to get to the Finals. Winning a game against LA was nice, but Iverson and the Sixers were never really contenders.

 

Again with Paul, fans and the media glorify Paul as an elite defensive player and an MVP-caliber offensive player. In reality, he's not a good shooter off the dribble, not a great finisher, and he's limited by having no off-hand. And defensively he makes his living by gambling, though he does have extraordinary anticipation to rip players' handles as often as he does. He's a notch below Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and probably Dwight Howard on the game impact scale, and might not even be the best point guard in the game, yet he's hyped as someone who should win MVP awards.

[Multi-Billionaire]

BFT, I think you need to simplify your post. It's "awesome" to see a response of a short post to your long ones... not hatin just sayin.

[OldChili]

Vince Carter has become one of the more underrated stars in his time in Jersey.

 

He speaks the truth.

[Built Ford Tough]

BFT, you're one of the few Raptors fans (and NBA fans) who doesn't categorically glorify Bosh as a star. Look at all the press Bosh receives about possibly being a free agent next year. It's done because people assume Bosh is a mega-star. He's certainly very good. A good shooter, an average rebounder and defender, he can score a little bit inside against slower or shorter defenders, but he's a very complimentary player who gets treated as if he's a legit MVP candidate, and that's certainly not the case.

 

Well we must not read the same kinds of things on Bosh then (which is definitely very plausible).

 

At basically every single forum I post at/read Bosh is one of the players that gets the most heat on him and is a player that is constantly being picked apart. People at the majority of forums that I go to are constantly saying that Bosh is not a franchise player and people will ridicule everything about his game. They say that all he ever does is shoot jumpers, is a liability on the defensive end, is a terrible rebounder, is the softest player in the NBA (which are all definitely not the case) and things of that nature. Other than his fantastic start last season, I honestly don't even remember the last time that I read a post or something from a non Raptor fan that was complimentary of Bosh.

 

It really depends on the types of people that you are reading/discussing with on an everyday basis that ultimately will make your stance on him change.

 

Bosh is a nice jump shooter who is average at almost every other thing he does, or is needed of him to make Toronto elite. He'd be a nice third, or perhaps second option on a really good team. Since most people don't realize that, he's overrated.

 

He is one of the best power forwards at facing his man up from about 15 feet away and blowing by them. He isn't an elite athlete, but he is very lanky and has a very good first step which allows him to cover distance in a hurry when driving by players. He is also very good at utilizing fakes to get his defenders up in the air and drawing contact to get to the line. He is one of the better offensive big men in the game, but I agree with you when you say that his jumper is definitely his biggest strength and he is average at most things outside of scoring the ball (although I do think that he is a good rebounder, not great and certainly not elite, but good).

 

All in all though, I agree with the general idea of what you are saying but I would definitely add facing his man up and utilizing his quick first step and speed advantage over most of the bigs in the game and getting to the line as other things that he does good.

 

One thing though, if Bosh were to be a third option on a team, that team would be unbelievably stacked. Bosh would make a fantastic second option on any team in the NBA. If he was the 3rd best offensive player on a team, that would be one scary team if you ask me.

 

With your Iverson-Paul analogy, be careful, that Sixers team wasn't special and took advantage of the worst NBA conference in history to get to the Finals. Winning a game against LA was nice, but Iverson and the Sixers were never really contenders.

 

The Thomas analogy was the main point that I made, I just threw Iverson's name in there because he was another little man that led his team to the Finals despite the fact that he is an undersized player. I completely agree with you that the Sixers were never legitimate threat to the Lakers and most years they do not even make the Finals, but when push comes to shove, he is another little man that has led his team to the Finals.

 

Thomas was the main comparision though, that is for sure.

 

Again with Paul, fans and the media glorify Paul as an elite defensive player and an MVP-caliber offensive player. In reality, he's not a good shooter off the dribble, not a great finisher, and he's limited by having no off-hand. And defensively he makes his living by gambling, though he does have extraordinary anticipation to rip players' handles as often as he does. He's a notch below Kobe, LeBron, Wade, and probably Dwight Howard on the game impact scale, and might not even be the best point guard in the game, yet he's hyped as someone who should win MVP awards.

 

I completely agree with you about how some people glorify him as an elite defensive player which is not the case, but he is an MVP caliber offensive player despite some of the flaws that he has in his game. I agree with you about him having a limited off hand and can somewhat agree with you about him not being a good shooter off of the dribble (his floater is fantastic though) but he does actually do a very good job at scoring from mid range and a pretty good job at converting his inside opportunities. He shot 47.8% and scored 9.2 points per game on mid range shots which was good for 4th and 5th respectively last season but most of these came from that excellent floater that I mentioned earlier instead of a prototypical pull up jumper. He shot 63.1% in the paint last season as well which is pretty good for a player of his stature, but those numbers can get inflated off of open layups and things like that. He isn't great at finishing in trafic but its not like he is unreliable at finishing either. I wouldn't really consider it a negative, but to each their own.

 

Defensively, I can definitely agree with you. He gets hype because of his ability to steal the ball but he is not a great defender by any means. He is good at playing passing lanes but he tends to gamble too much. He reaches too often and sags off of whoever he is guarding giving them ample room for getting off their shot (like what happened in the playoffs against Denver and Billups). He is great at stealing the ball whether it be stripping the ball carrier or jumping the passing lanes, but he is not a great defender.

 

He is a notch below Kobe, LeBron and Wade, but honestly, is there any player in the NBA that is on their level? I don't think so. I think that he is on the same level of impact as Dwight Howard is though. Although Dwight can dominate a game on the defensive end of the floor and on the glass, he is definitely a flawed offensive player. Basically, he is the opposite of Paul in my mind. Paul will dominate a game on the offensive end with his passing and vision while Howard will dominate it with his defense and vision. Both of them are at the top of their position and both of them are below the big three of Bryant, James and Wade, but are fantastic players in their own right.

 

I'll admit that I felt Paul had a legit case for winning the MVP back in 07/08 (if it were up to me I would have to flip a coin between him and Kobe for it, but would lean slightly more towards Kobe) because of what he managed to do in a very tough Western Conference with his Hornets team that was definitely not expected to do what they did.

 

Chris Paul is a second tier star along with guys like Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki and a healthy Yao Ming, and I agree with you that if you consider him to be on the same level as Kobe, LeBron or Wade then he would be overrated, but most people that I talk to don't consider him to be on that level so I don't consider him to be overrated. He is a great player, but very few people that I know nor the media put him on the level of Kobe, Bron and Wade.

 

Really though, it all depends on who you talk to when it comes to who is overrated and underrated and things like that. One person can think that Chris Bosh or Chris Paul are vastly overrated and one can think that they are vastly underrated (I think both are rated just fine as Paul is on that second tier of stars while Bosh is on the third tier) and I can see both sides of the coin as it all depends on the kinds of people that you are around the most. I have no problem with people calling Bosh or Paul overrated players as long as they have good reasoning and are coming from a respectable angle.

[Erick Blasco]

Well, Rosen does give reasons for his angles.

[JWaLL]

Totally agree with Arenas as he is one of the most worthless point guards in the league.

KG is a bit overrated now as well considering how much he has fallen off from what he once was.

Dont think Bosh and CP3 are overrated though.

You are a certified dumbass. I don't think you realize the strength of the word "worthless". A player who once averaged almost 29 ppg, is a decent passer, and can score from almost anywhere on the floor is not, in anyway worthless. I agree he will probably never be as good as he used to be, but hell he isn't going to hurt any team. And the only time I can ever recall him "choking" in any playoff series was when he missed those free throws against Cleveland in the closing seconds of the game.

 

I'm waiting for someone to support this guys claim of Gilbert being "worthless". I'm not being bias in the slightest, no one has any proof that he hurts a team because he has been out for almost 2 seasons. The only way he is hurting the Wizards is financially because of his mammoth sized contract, but that's it.

[Guest N4S]

Erick Blasco is pretty overrated.

[Erick Blasco]

Erick Blasco is pretty overrated.

 

That means I have fans! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! B) B) B) B) B) B) B)

 

It's okay, I'm sorry your favorite team/player isn't all its cracked up to be.